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Unmercy-Moonguard
05-21-2010, 02:47 PM
Topic reads problem. Having major major threat problems in ICC to the point where our other tanks are out threating my taunt and wiping us on fights like Festergut HM and Sarufang HM. If anyone could critique me and figure out the problem i would love you. Thanks in advance, Kt.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Moon+Guard&cn=Unmercy

Lumines
05-21-2010, 03:18 PM
Your problem is that the other tanks shouldn't be going full throttle after you've taunted off them, if them pulling back aggro is going to cause a wipe. That's just plain stupid. Any gear or rotation discrepancies are near irrelevant if your co-tanks are being retarded and not throttling their threat output just a little bit after a tank swap.

Martie
05-21-2010, 03:25 PM
On Festergut the other tank will have a 90% damage buff - if he keeps going all-out without managing his aggro correctly your other tank is a moron.

On Saurfang, the issue shouldn't pop up too often after a few taunts, and during those times your cotank should simply hold back a bit. Remember that he needs to go to 110% of your threat to draw aggro back, if he regains aggro sooner then that, he's doing something wrong.
However, if he's going over your threat later in the saurfang fight, there's something weird going on - 20 seconds simply shouldn't be enough time for him to overaggro you. Either you are doing something very wrong in your aggro building, or your hunters and rogues are misusing misdirects and tricks of the trade.

massacrejons
05-21-2010, 03:57 PM
the way my guild does it is we dont even auto attack for a good 10 or 15 seconds after the tank taunts. we just click off and we have no problems. just a suggestion though.

Unmercy-Moonguard
05-21-2010, 06:38 PM
Those are just two examples of fights where it its a problem, my threat is low overall not just those two cases i need to get it higher, maybe i had no explained fully what i needed help with.

Fayre
05-21-2010, 07:43 PM
You're in DPS gear on Armory.

It's more likely to be a rotation / MD/Tricks misfire issue than it is gear and spec, though, I'd say off the cuff. Can you provide any logs?

Unmercy-Moonguard
05-21-2010, 08:37 PM
All of our links are private unfortunately logging out in PvE - Tank right now as we speak.

Tank gear is on and spec now.

Selene
05-22-2010, 03:05 AM
Noticed two things.
Your Hit is fairly high at 10%, only need 8%, and your Expertise is way low at 12. More expertise would help with threat (26 is ideal).

Don't know anything about warrior rotation/specs so not gonna comment on that.

Harmacy
05-22-2010, 04:10 AM
Lots of the other stuff has been mentioned already, good advice so far. A bit more:

Improved Revenge is HUGE since the Revenge buff. Not only is it a large boost to single-target threat, but it now cleaves, giving it some nice AoE utility as well. Take two points out of something like Shield Spec for that.

I'd also get rid of that +10 stats gem, as it doesn't really give you enough to be worth the gem slot. Throw a +30 stam gem in that ring, and put a +exp/+stam gem in your helm instead. That way you gain both stamina and threat (lose a tiny bit of armor and dodge from agility, that's all).

Another thing to consider is using some of the tier gear. That +20% to Shield Slam is not a solution in and of itself but would definitely be a big help. I'd suggest the hands and chest, because both have bonus armor rather than avoidance.

Tengenstein
05-22-2010, 04:11 AM
other than the hit/expertise thing i can't see how you are going wrong. i'd switch the nightmare tear in the ring with the zircon in your head, but other than that, not a clue.

the problem with improved revenge on this fight is that if you start off tankng the boss, you will taunt off the other tank precisely at the same time he calls the bLoodbeasts, so revenge's cleave is likely to jump, and very likely pull aggro on one.

Here's a couple of things i do;

the CD on rune of blood and Shieldblock are the same, so you should be able to have this up Every time you taunt, and start with a SS

vigilance the other tank each time you taunt. have them use the macro
/canecelaura Vigilance
/cast taunt (or Hand of Reckoning, or Growl, or Dark command, as applicable)

while you use the macro and keep the other tank focused

/cast [target=focus] vigilance
/cast taunt (or Hand of Reckoning, or Growl, or Dark command, as applicable)

it should work out that every time you taunt you vigilance the other tank, so his threat is added to yours, and each time he taunts off you he loses vigilance so you're not draining his threat when he's tanking (and so your threat is low when you're not tanking).

Harmacy
05-22-2010, 04:19 AM
the problem with improved revenge on this fight is that if you start off tankng the boss, you will taunt off the other tank precisely at the same time he calls the bLoodbeasts, so revenge's cleave is likely to jump, and very likely pull aggro on one.

Paladins have the same issue with Hammer of the Righteous unfortunately. Just gotta watch when and where you use it on Saurfang that's all.

Loganisis
05-22-2010, 01:30 PM
Probably some really basic questions you're already doing but...

Have you vig'd him? He's not vig-ing you, right?

He needs to pay more attention - regardless of whose threat is whose, tanks need to watch their own threat on taunt fights, it's not just ramping up, but ramping down too.

What is your rotation? Dev/SS/Rev/HS as rage allows and nothing else?

Do you use Mocking Blow to make sure Fester stays on you for a bit? Or maybe challege shout?

Do hunters/rogues help with MD and Tricks?

Understanding the mechanics a little more of your particular fight and raid setup may help.

Unmercy-Moonguard
05-22-2010, 04:44 PM
Thanks for all the advice, I'll try it and report back here with the results asap.

Selene
05-22-2010, 08:04 PM
Good Luck!

Dreadski
05-22-2010, 08:39 PM
Please, folks, stop telling tanks that expertise and hit are needed to increase threat.

The #1 reason your threat might be low is your rotation. Prioritize Shield Slam > Revenge > Shockwave > Devastate with Heroic Strike spammed. It is really that simple.

I wanted to make an edit to my first statement: I'm not saying hit and expertise are bad, but I am saying that if your rotation sucks, adding more threat stats will not help you. They WILL improve an already good rotation, but we can put out 15k tps without trying hard or stacking threat stats.

uglybbtoo
05-22-2010, 10:45 PM
What dread says :-)

And get the other tank to back off after handover .. his eepeen over his superior threat is the major cause of the wipe.