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View Full Version : Tanking Need big help on my surviveability.



Mogar
05-21-2010, 07:18 AM
I am new tank and my gear is starting to look good. For the time being i tank heroics and normals but want to take the big step into tanking for raids. My biggest challenge is that i have a relative low health pool and i do get complaints that i need a lot of healing.
Browsing through other tanks on armory i can't see that i have alot less armor then other tanks, right now i am almost up to 27k armor. My defense is over the "cap" (just pointing it out so i am being killed but one shot crits).
I just tried offtanking in TOC 10 yesterday and the healers were having a very hard time keeping me up during just the first fight. Right i am focussing on getting my Stamina up but how much should i sacrifice hit and expertise for stamina? Just think i may turn out becoming the meatbag that can't hold agro because i miss on hits.

Is this a talent build error or just me doing a lousy job in picking my gear? Or am i just doing something wrong in rotation. Good example is: i am pretty much torn up just on the halfway marker in the tunnel of Pit Of Saron.

I really hope that some one can give at least some pointers to wether how to improve my survivability

Link to my char is here:
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Shadowsong&cn=Mogar

sifuedition
05-21-2010, 07:38 AM
Lot's of room for improvement...

Your meta gem should be this (http://www.wowhead.com/item=41380). This will allow you more survivability than the one you have which is more PvP oriented.
Shoulder enchant should be this (http://www.wowhead.com/item=44957). This has more effective health than the Hodir one.
Boots enchant should be this (http://www.wowhead.com/item=39006). The extra movement speed can be invaluable.
Try for this trinket (http://www.wowhead.com/item=47216) from normal ToC 5 man (not heroic). This is on par with many raiding trinkets for it's effective health. You will want to replace the Rotting Thumb. Even Essence of Gossamer (http://www.wowhead.com/item=37220) would be better.
Try for this ring (http://www.wowhead.com/item=47243) from ToC 5 heroic. This is probably the ring with the most effective health that you can get outside of a raid or the clutch, which you already have.

For gemming and enchanting...


Just think i may turn out becoming the meatbag that can't hold agro because i miss on hits.

I understand your concern about being "one dimentional" but that is what you need to do for raiding. Threat values are at the point where missing or being dodged occassionally will not cause dps to overtake your threat. With only the hit and expertise that is naturally on gear, your threat will be more than enough. Since threat is taken care of, you need to focus on survivability. You do that through armor and stamina. Since you cannot gem armor, you will gem one purple (dodge/stamina or similar - not parry) to activate the meta and every other gem will be 30 stam.

To understand more about why we do this, read Agg's thread (http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?66564-Why-We-Do-What-We-Do-(An-in-depth-explanation-of-EHP-and-ICC-3.3.3-tanking-mechanics)) on Why We Do What We Do in the Theory and Mechanics.

Also, you are over 540 defense. With the PvP enchant for the shoulders I listed, you will only need 536 defense because the resil will cover the other four. Once you reach that point, things like defense on the cloak or shield should be changed for armor or stam as you can get it. Also, defense gems should not be used at that point.

Aggathon
05-21-2010, 07:44 AM
Ya, 32k HP and 27k armor is a bit low for ICC. You can sac almost all of your hit/expertise for survivability instead. In raids you can front load enough threat (either from using cooldowns like shield block at the beginning or MD/TotT from hunters/rogues) that threat shouldn't be a huge issue for the most part.

Ditch the glyph of Sunder Armor, replace it with Devastate, it is much better. Your spec could use a little work but nothing big. Basically I'd suggest getting improved disciplines and making sure you are 3/3 critical block. You can take the 3 points needed to do this either out of focused rage or shield specialization, it's really personal preference. I prefer having focused rage and 2/5 shield spec myself.

Crafted gear is going to be a big thing you can get to help your HP. Indestructible Plate Girdle, Spiked Death Dealers, and Breastplate of the White Knight are all things that should be on your shopping list. If you can afford them then definitely pick up Pillars of might, they are very good.

Check out the link in my signature, go over the gearing/enchanting sections, but also look in "gearing." The easy to get gear guide will give you a head start, but more specifically look at the links to other gear guides. There's like 3 links to "pre-raiding" gear guides, including Tinkertotz's Gear your toon in LFD guide that is very good. Also Vene's frost order pick list from tanking tips.com is very good. Being able to pick up the 264 frost emblem gear will make a world of difference for you since you are basically attempt to skip ulduar and toc gearing and going straight for ICC25.

If you can get into ToC, I would highly recommend it since there are some upgrades for you in there, especially Satrina's trinket from faction champs. You should drop that Ick's Rotting thumb asap and instead get the black heart (ilevel 200 from ToC5 normal, so it's very farmable). EHP > RNG.

Edit: Also what he said ^

Theotherone
05-21-2010, 01:08 PM
Breast Plate of the White Knight is a great investment for a quick gear up (Frozen orbs make the mats inexpensive) and it will serve you well into ICC 10/25.

massacrejons
05-21-2010, 04:04 PM
with the suggested trinkets above i tanked icc and got 2 drops on first wing and I did fine. people say a lot of stuff and there is really only so much u can do. stacking sta gems besides the the req for the sta/armor meta is really the only non sta gem. I would prolly ot not mt for it though and u can through the first four bosses of icc prolly wont be super easy and if ur healers are not good maybe not but the the healers that went with me were not pro just about what they should be but not the best pre icc u could be gear wise. i suggest gettin black heart then u could prolly be better off. Just a suggestion though

Aggathon
05-26-2010, 11:18 AM
imo there's very little difference between an OT and an MT in ICC. Marrowgar does have proper "offtanks" but LDW both tanks have to do the exact same amount of work, on gunship I don't really think there's a clear distinction of who is MTing, I think it's just two separate tank jobs, each being equally important. Saurfang both tanks take the same thing, pretty much the same is true for festergut and P3 Putricide. Rotface I guess has an OT and MT. VDW both tanks do the same thing, sindragosa both tanks do the same thing, on blood princes all tanks are "MTs" imo, on BQL there's an OT but they take the same dmg as the MT (just all shadow dmg), and TLK kinda depends on what strat you use but both tanks are gonna get hit hard, again I don't think there's a real distinction here.

Selene
05-26-2010, 01:02 PM
Helm - regem - gem with Hit/Stam or Def/Stam. You don't want to use an Orange gem.

Neck - maybe switch this to the one from conquest emblems or try to farm the one from H HoR.

Cloak - regem - gem with Hit/Stam, Def/Stam or Stam - again don't use Orange gems.

Chest - get rid of the Hit gem, replace with Hit/Stam, Def/Stam or Stam, never use a Yellow gem unless it is for Def to get to the Def cap. Look into replacing with Crafted 245 ToC chest, or try to get into ToC25 for the chest off the first boss.

Gloves - get your t9 232 gloves.

Belt - get the conquest emblem belt or get the 226 crafted ulduar one.

All of that would be a good boost to your gear.