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Ironoath
05-10-2010, 10:17 PM
Hi guys,

We've had a couple of nights of wiping in phase 3 Sindragosa and was wondering if anyone had any tips for phase 3.

We do fine with tombs until then but its like people get a rush of blood to the head. In my eyes it's about surviviability and NOT DPS racing but we get to 10-15% and people start to drop like flies from being ice tombed. I *think* they're bunching up to clear stacks (i.e. running to the same existing tomb) and getting caught so end up being tombed by each other so to speak.

Tonight I was thinking of positining her horizontally across the room so dps spread across the stairs, having an ice tomb placed by her head and an ice tomb placed by her hind leg as standard practice and then splitting the group into two teams for debuff removal in phase 3. Good idea or bad idea?

My team is:
Paladin MT
Druid OT
Warlock
Hunter
Mage
Mage
Death Knight
Shaman - Healer
Druid - Healer
Paladin - Healer

Bashal
05-10-2010, 10:28 PM
Well, there's a few variants on how to handle everything, but they're all essentially the same -- which is the method you're proposing.

You can also do debuff clearing freestyle, but that requires some pretty decent communication on vent.

If you're starting out OK but then it kind of falls apart, it's just practice that's needed, and/or people are getting excited and flipping into that "just burn the boss" mentality, which totally does not work for that boss. You have to treat the whole of p3 as if you just entered the phase -- that is, pay close attention to the mechanics, your debuffs, and positioning.

And you're right; as long as you are getting to P3 quickly enough, it's a "survival race", not a DPS race at all.

If you aren't using something like this already, the AVR mod is great for marking where tombs should be and so forth.

Ironoath
05-10-2010, 10:59 PM
we've been using flares for tombs but as its the same squad, we end up with people just knowing where to place them.

Do you think having a set rotation for debuff clearing works? We have people able to listen on vent but not everyone speaks. I tank so I don't have experience of this from a dps view but as it doesn't look like the same people get tombed I'd imagine it'd be difficult to set groups for who gets debuffed first?

Thanks for quick reply btw!

Blacksen
05-11-2010, 12:05 AM
One thing that's helped with a lot of guilds is rotating her around 180 degrees on tank swaps when it might help. We found it to immensely help with positioning.

Ironoath
05-11-2010, 12:13 AM
oh really?whats the thinking behind that? less mystic buffet stacks?

saedo
05-11-2010, 01:00 AM
Constant ice block positions and the tank is able to use the block closest to him (instead of running to the far side block).

Ridan
05-11-2010, 01:03 AM
We had a similar issue with this fight. Gets kinda messy fast in fase 3 :P. We changed pos to solve the issue. We are initialy Fase 1 and 2 keeping the raid just below the stairs. In P3 thou we change position and put sindis nose at the bottom of the stair and everyone moving to the side.
From here we use 2 positions for ice blocks. 3 points total, middle for raid and put the blocks on both side of the raid. One by sindis nose and one on the other side of the raid. Then just force ppl to fokus on blocks at al times as main prio. DPS on sindi is not a huge issue she will go down either way ;) Kinda hard to explain but there is a vid out there using this exakt method for p3. A good thing to avoid confusion is to start the raid with everyone checking the same vid. This fight is so easy to explain a bit to hard which means everyone THINKS they know how to.

swelt
05-11-2010, 05:32 AM
Constant ice block positions and the tank is able to use the block closest to him (instead of running to the far side block).
Also prevents both tanks being hit by the same breath. The only downside is that you risk tanks getting a tail swipe when running in to "taunt from the ass".

Ironoath
05-12-2010, 07:10 AM
Update:
Thanks guys, tried this horizontal positioning, splitting into two groups tactic and tanks spitroasting Sindy last night - got her to 1% on the first attempt but after that we kinda hit the composure barrier again. So I just wondered if anyone had tried positioning BOTH tombs near sindragosas head and tanks simply taunting off the head rather than head and tails. Our DPS were saying too much happens for them to ensure tombs are in the right positioning so if we put them both in the same region the thinking is dps movement is minimal (we stick them on the center of the stairs) so more dps is done and tanks always have the same spot to run to (near the head) so don't have to worry when no tomb is close.

^anyone tried that and have any horror stories/success stories?

Bashal
05-12-2010, 08:47 AM
If you are describing what I think you are, having the tombs that close to eachother will likely cause many accidental, additional tombs.

If you got to 1% with the strat you just tried, stick with it, it's a winner for you. If you can get to 1%, you can get to 0%.

Changing the tactic constantly just gets raiders more and more confused, because they have to keep relearning portions of the fight, and when they forget... they'll revert to an older, "incorrect" tactic.

The fight flat-out sucks no matter what your strat is. And for those rare individuals who actually like the mechanics, there's still that wonderful "SUFFER MORTALS, AS YOUR PATHETIC MAGIC.... BETRAAAAYYYYSSSS YOOOOOUUUU!" spam to ensure you'll hate it anyway. :P

Ironoath
05-12-2010, 08:57 AM
haha, well I say we hit the composure barrier because after the attempt suddenly it was 'too difficult' for the guys to co-ordinate it. I'd rather keep it as simple as possible for as many as possible, so if the dps are struggling to position and hold tomb position I'm open to tweaking where we put them. The amended tactic I'm thinking of involves one tomb 'at her nose' and another 'at her belly' or at least in these positions. The issues dps seem to have is with everything else going on (for them) they can't also watch when to not dps tombs (don't ask me why it was so textbook on the first attempt).

I've no doubt we have the players to get it down, it's just simplifying phase 3 as much as possible.

Bashal
05-12-2010, 09:15 AM
...involves one tomb 'at her nose' and another 'at her belly' or at least in these positions.

That should be fine, my guild places them in about the same positions, actually. I was envisioning something a little different.

Also keep in mind, they may be hearing that /trade garbage about how "oh sindy is so ez mode if u cant do it ur just fail". Combined with perhaps being a little weary of wiping, they're hoping there's some magic bullet that will fix it all and make the fight less difficult.

There isn't, unless you plan to come back at level 85. :P It's just a PITA, but once you get her down, you know you can do it, and that's when it truly starts to get easier.

(Then they can go on /trade themselves and tell everyone how "ez" it is.) ;)

Ironoath
05-12-2010, 09:29 AM
ha, I HATE the 'ZOMG <insert fight> is sooooo ez lolz' brigade *rolls eyes*. We actually have one guy in our guild who says that about every fight. I simply say 'Link Ach' and he goes quiet :p

I totally agree with you, unless we're 85 and going back to it with 30% buff it's not 'easy', but like Marrowgar with no buff when we first entered, all we need to do is find 'our' tactic that our group can handle.

I'm thinking if places our tombs one in middle, one at nose doesn't work then I'll have to ask everyone to step up concentration levels because there won't be anything else we can try :D

Thanks for quick responses!

Bashal
05-12-2010, 09:51 AM
...[if that] doesn't work then I'll have to ask everyone to step up concentration levels because there won't be anything else we can try :D

Thanks for quick responses!

My pleasure. :)

My guild struggled with the same P3 issue on this fight: to simply notice when crap happens, like getting beaconed, being a victim of unchained magic, clearing stacks at the right time, etc., etc. It only gets better with practice, and as my old raid leader used to like to say "you have to FOCUS, people".

And they too suffered from the "amg she's almost dead just BURN HER!" syndrome. I think that was responsible for wiping us more than anything.

Good luck!

Blacksen
05-12-2010, 10:51 AM
Another note is movement with the tombs. When a new tomb falls, EVERYONE moves over and gets behind it. When it dies, no one moves until the next tomb is up.

This is a critical element that we noticed in our early Sindragosa attempts. For some reason, everyone has this instinct to immediately move whenever a tomb dies. You must fight that instinct.

Use flares to mark where you want the tombs. Throw them out at 40% or so.

Ironoath
05-12-2010, 11:00 AM
^^ Thank you, I'll point our dps guys at this thread for the tip on movement as I'm pretty sure (but not 100%) they weren't putting themselves behind any tombs and were standing 'clear' unless dpsing a tomb

Ridan
05-17-2010, 09:01 AM
We found it alot easier to ALWAYS stay in the middle between the tombs thats our ground. Walk up behind only when ya need to remove debuffs. That way the area left and right around the raid was always open for tombs. And if one is getting burned slowly there is no way that you will have to move trhough the raid with tomb on you which can be an easy whipe if going to slow.

Bashal
05-17-2010, 10:11 AM
We found it alot easier to ALWAYS stay in the middle between the tombs thats our ground. Walk up behind only when ya need to remove debuffs.

That's the way my guild handles it, too. We tried other ways and they just didn't click for us.

Picking a variant on a strategy can be more about what "just works" for you and your group, than whether one is technically better than another. You find something that works, and you stick with it. :)

Ironoath
05-17-2010, 10:20 AM
thanks for all your help guys, this place always gives quick advice :)

We got her down to 2% after simplyfying the tactics as much as possible and as Bashal says above - it seems to be what works for us. We're going again Tuesday and fingers crossed we'll get her down this time!

Ironoath
05-18-2010, 10:20 PM
Update: Last night we scored a guild first and downed her :D

Thank you all for your help here, it's always appreciated and very helpful :)


(Look out for my upcoming Lich King thread hehe)

Bashal
05-19-2010, 07:33 AM
(Look out for my upcoming Lich King thread hehe)

Lol I'll be reading it myself, still trying to get that bugger down.