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Ciderhelm
04-25-2010, 01:57 AM
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Hello and welcome to the TankSpot Icecrown Citadel Raid Guide! My name is Aliena and in this video I'll cover everything you need to know about the heroic mode 10-man version of the Lich King encounter. I will assume that you're familiar with the normal version of this encounter. If you're not, I suggest first watching our guide to the 10-man normal mode to learn about the Lich King's base abilities.

At the point of this recording, it's pretty much essential to bring two healers to this fight - a disc priest and a holy paladin. You also want two well-geared tanks and 6 DPS. Arthas has upped his health from 17 to 30 million, so you're gonna need good DPS to beat the time limit.

In every phase, Arthas has learned a new trick that'll make you have to adjust your tactics for this fight. The trick he's learned in phase 1 is Shadow Traps - those are the big black circles that you see on the ground. Arthas casts this on a strict timer on a random raid member, and anyone that's still in the area of a shadow trap after it spawns will get knocked off the map and die.
http://www.tankspot.com/aliena/lkguide/Image1.jpg

To deal with this, we split our raid in three groups. 1 group is compromised of the Lich King tank and the melee. Group 2 is the Shambling Horror tank and his shambling horrors. Group 3 is the ranged dps and healers.
http://www.tankspot.com/aliena/lkguide/Image2.jpg

Since the Lich King has so much health and you can't really afford to have people waste any time DPSing the adds, you have to use Necrotic Plague to your advantage.

Have any Horror that spawns misdirected to your offtank, who should keep the horrors between the ranged and the melee pile. Any necrotic plague is taken BEHIND a currently active shambling horror and then dispeled there. That way, the plague should jump to the horror and damage it significantly as stacks grow and yet the person taking it there will not get hit by shockwave if they stay behind it.
http://www.tankspot.com/aliena/lkguide/Image3.jpg

You should have a designated dispeler that is not a healer.

As more and more shadow traps spawn, your raid needs to move away from them, leaving them behind. Make sure all groups are always in range of each other.

By the time you approach 70%, you should be fairly close to a ledge of the room if you keep moving up like we do here.

As Arthas casts Remorseless Winter, your entire raid should be on the ledge as to avoid taking unnecessary ticks of the dot. Make sure everyone immediately faces the same direction and not another person, so that any Raging Spirit that spawns does not immediately soul shriek a raid member.

On the ledge, you want to spread out in at least three groups to avoid stacking Pain and Suffering too high on individual players.
http://www.tankspot.com/aliena/lkguide/Image4.jpg

The rest of this phase goes as normal.

When he starts casting Quake again, everyone should meet up in roughly the center area of the platform, cause there's an immediate Infest coming and then a Valkyr.

As disc priest in this fight, it is your job to take care of Infest by yourself. You want every raid member have a fresh power word: shield before every Infest. Save penance in case someone still takes a tick. Infest deals twice as much damage in the heroic version than it does on normal. If your disc priest gets picked up by a Valkyr, have your paladin use aura mastery for the infest.

The new ability gained in this phase actually affects the valkyrs. Instead of killing them to make them drop a player, you dps them to 50%, then they'll fly up into the air and spam an ability called Life Siphon. Any Valkyr should be taunted by a tank when possible so they don't disrupt priest shields on raid members.
http://www.tankspot.com/aliena/lkguide/Image5.jpg

Defiles should be dropped towards the starting point of the fight whenever possible. They expand a lot quicker in the hard mode than they do in the normal fight and as such are quite a threat if not handled with care.
http://www.tankspot.com/aliena/lkguide/Image6.jpg

You will want to setup a cooldown rotation for Soul Reaper. This greatly depends on your raid setup, but very useful are abilities such as Barkskin, Last Stand, Pain Suppression, Bubblesac, Guardian Spirit,Offtank Intervene and so on. Make sure your raid's communication is spot-on for this, or you'll end up with a very dead tank.

Phase 2 movement is a bit like a dance, really. You want to have your raid members in a central position whenever Lich King summons a Valkyr, so they have a long ways to go to drop the person in question, but you also want to be spread out a bit for Defiles, and you have to dance around wherever someone drops their defile. Knowing where to be at any given time depends on practice and communication. Your tank should be announcing where he's taking the Lich King so the raid knows to follow, and impending defiles and valkyrs should also be called out in vent, mainly just so no one has an excuse to be in the wrong spot.

You should also make sure that your raid has defile and shadow traps on say announce in their boss mod.

As you approach 40%, your raid should move towards an edge of the platform. Again, this is so no one takes unneccessary damage from Remorseless Winter ticks. You want to spread out in the same format as before and pretty much repeat the first ledge phase.

Phase three greets you straight away with Harvest Souls - yes, this is plural for a reason. Your whole raid gets teleported into the throne room and yet another dance begins. Now, in here are two things to look out for. Vile Spirits and bombs that drop shortly after they materialize. You move away from the bombs while killing the spirits. In our case, we all grouped up and moved to a safe spot when a bomb was about to drop on us.
http://www.tankspot.com/aliena/lkguide/Image7.jpg

To make sure everyone gets the concept, you should have a leader marked that everyone follows. After a little while of this, you get teleported back to the Lich King and are immediately greeted with a Defile, so be ready for it. Any spirits you did not kill in the throne room will also become active outside on top of the new ones the Lich King will summon. To deal with spirits outside, we used a soaker - the raid moves together to the side of the room furthest away from the spirits while your ranged members should dps whichever spirits they can, and exploding ones should be soaked by the offtank or a paladin in the middle of the room.

There's no more Infest in this phase but soul reaper still happens, so make sure everyone is on top of the cooldown rotation. Harvest Souls, Defile and Vile Spirits are all on a timer, so you should get used to the rotation pretty easily.

As far as healing in the Throne Room goes, your paladin is pretty much out of luck. Disc priest shields and Prayer of Mending as well as any other instants and health stones will be your best bet.

As soon as you hit 10%, the fight is over. Congratulations of beating the final challenge in Icecrown Citadel 10 man!

Thank you for watching this movie. As always, feel free to ask questions or add suggestions either on YouTube or in the strategy thread on TankSpot.com. Also, TankSpot Donors can download all of these movies in High Definition directly from our servers -- so if you'd like to learn more about that, just click the second link in the movie information box!

Ryoku
04-25-2010, 02:32 AM
Congrats on the kill

CoolNitro
04-25-2010, 06:11 AM
Nice not only for the kill but for the great video of it.

I was starting to lose faith that there was any real challenge out there for a disc priest but from the looks of this fight I'm going to be on the edge of my seat all the way though it plus two healing it man what away to lay on the pressure, I can't wait.

Wallert
04-25-2010, 08:28 AM
Great guide, but just to confirm - at this stage (icecrown buff at 10% going up to 15 next week probably) you would say that a 6 dps set up and a disc priest are absolutely needed?

I ask because our raid group currently has 3 healers, one of every class except Priest, and if this is the case we're basically stuck till the buff increases :(

Ohhnose
04-25-2010, 08:28 AM
Meh at needing a disc priest since my 10man doesnt have one and its been way too much of a struggle getting reliable healers to replace one now that we do. How bad would it be with say resto druid / shaman instead?

CoolNitro
04-25-2010, 09:16 AM
Meh at needing a disc priest since my 10man doesnt have one and its been way too much of a struggle getting reliable healers to replace one now that we do. How bad would it be with say resto druid / shaman instead?

As long as everyone is hotted up and infest doesn't tick you should be fine the only bonus of a disc priest is that infest mostly won't even tick once so the chances of it getting out of hand are greatly reduced.

Rennadrel
04-25-2010, 02:37 PM
Nice work as usual Aliena. This looks like a pretty tough fight, congrats on the kill and I look forward to seeing a 25 man hard mode video at some point too.

penpen002
04-25-2010, 02:40 PM
Thank you Aliena! Always looking forward to all of Tankspots guides.

Aliena
04-25-2010, 02:48 PM
As long as everyone is hotted up and infest doesn't tick you should be fine the only bonus of a disc priest is that infest mostly won't even tick once so the chances of it getting out of hand are greatly reduced.

Infest always ticks unless there's a bubble up. So unless you always have a reliable way to instantly heal up every single infest before it ticks more than 3 times, you're good. Alas, you can't really do that without a priest. I haven't seen a single kill meter (and I checked about ~150) that did not have a holy pally and a disc priest, sorry to say. There was ONE kill meter that did have 3 healers, disc priest, holy pally, resto shaman, and all the others just double healed.

Maybe with 15% inc it'll be easier, but as of right now, no way.

hacki
04-25-2010, 10:48 PM
grats to the kill, which addon is ticking in the middle of your screen that shows the time left to infest?

Aliena
04-26-2010, 01:11 AM
BigWigs

Baervar
04-26-2010, 02:27 AM
Did your soaker use http://www.wowhead.com/item=50361 each time he blew up the spirits? Not sure whether doing that is recommended or entirely necessary to be able to soak the spirits while saving some CD's for soul reaper.

Also what did you think of the fight? What was the hardes part of the fight to heal? (dy the looks of it healing inside the throne room seemed to be since you couldn't make much use of the other healer).
Grats on the kill too :)

Bishoptwo
04-26-2010, 07:46 AM
Great guide, but just to confirm - at this stage (icecrown buff at 10% going up to 15 next week probably) you would say that a 6 dps set up and a disc priest are absolutely needed?

I ask because our raid group currently has 3 healers, one of every class except Priest, and if this is the case we're basically stuck till the buff increases :(

Disc Priest isn't a must have but healing it with anything else is like taking a knife to a gun fight. We didn't want to break up our 10 man cliques so we tried Paladin/Druid the first couple of weeks and it was pretty painful. The resto druid had no GCD's to do anything else b/c they were using them all on the raid for infest. If the Paladin or Resto Druid got picked up by a Valkyr we wiped, if a tank needed a spot heal from someone else besides the Paladin we wiped, if the Paladin had to move for more than 3 seconds we wiped.

It's just so much smoother with a Disc Priest that it's not worth using another healer for the 2nd healer unless you are blessed by the RNG god's or your healers play perfectly through the first 2 phases.

Could you 3 heal it now? I'm inclined to say "probably" but you need your dps to be in BIS 277 gear and your 3rd healer would definitely want to dps as much as possible. But if you have a disc priest then you won't need a 3rd healer.

I dunno we ended up using our Resto Druid in crappy Moonkin gear and we used a hunter that just switched that class back to his main and is lacking in gear compared to the rest of our dps. One of our dps was dead all through the last phase and we still killed it, we soaked the vile spirits. Some of our dps's bad gear and missing one dps for the last 4ish minutes of the fight makes me think it could be 3 healed but I dunno.

I'm sure with 15 percent it will become more viable to 3 heal it if you wanted to but it's still going to require top dps from the 5 dps.

CatabriOnEarthen
04-27-2010, 08:27 AM
Congratulations to Aliena and her raid members on the kill. Looks like tons of fun! Now to kill him on normal mode.

Bishoptwo
04-27-2010, 10:51 AM
Infest always ticks unless there's a bubble up. So unless you always have a reliable way to instantly heal up every single infest before it ticks more than 3 times, you're good. Alas, you can't really do that without a priest. I haven't seen a single kill meter (and I checked about ~150) that did not have a holy pally and a disc priest, sorry to say. There was ONE kill meter that did have 3 healers, disc priest, holy pally, resto shaman, and all the others just double healed.

Maybe with 15% inc it'll be easier, but as of right now, no way.

I know for sure at least one guild Paladin/Druid healed it. It's not hard for a Druid to heal it, its just a matter of he doesn't have a GCD for anything else, I think ours would roll rejuvs on everyone, possibly even a couple of lifeblooms out to bloom to line up with the infest hit and then wild growthing both groups.

If either healer got picked up or the Paladin had to move for whatever reason the Resto Druid couldn't do anything. It was totally possible but our group got tired of playing an RNG game of wipes being caused b/c of healer pickups or the Paladin healer having to move for more than 3 seconds causing a wipe.

Aliena
04-27-2010, 06:20 PM
Why give yourself the headache? Any combination other than priest & pally relies on "what ifs" & a lot of luck, which just leads to frustration. That fight wasn't meant to be beaten by anything less than a stacked team until the ICC buff stacks high. I assume as we move up the % ranks we'll see a lot more kills by different setups.

krasagrado
04-28-2010, 08:43 AM
As always awesome guide and video.

My group has a disc/holy priest, ret/holy pally, boom/resto druid, resto/(sucky elemental) Shaman. We roll every 2 healer fight with shaman/priest healing, would you say that it is possible to down arthas without a holy paladin healing the tanks?

And one other thing, I don't remember where, but I remember reading something about valk'yrs not being targetable after they've dropped whoever they were carrying. Is this true, or can I just target them and taunt?

Sarinxa
04-30-2010, 09:36 PM
Nice video

One question: What happend around 4:37-4:38 in part 2? Lich King has 10.2M hp/34.8% and suddenly he has 8.57M hp/29.1% one sec later. Did u merge two movies?

Aliena
05-01-2010, 01:14 AM
Yup

rosseli
05-01-2010, 06:50 AM
wondering how people handle ghouls in phase 1 with a fury warrior? can anybody enlighten me to any easy methods? btw our tanks are feral druid and a prot paladin

Squishei
05-02-2010, 07:46 AM
How did you get infest to show up as a debuff on grid? Is it another addon?

Great movie. Gratz on the kill.

Laere
05-04-2010, 04:38 AM
How often would your Holy Paladin Sac/AM inside the throne room? Also from what I've read and seen before, I know that once you're out of the throne room you must give your tank a cool down. So, would the paladin use HoS (Hand of Sacrifice) on the tank, and then Divine Sacrifice/Aura Mastery in the throne room? Or would he Use the Divine Sac/Guardian as another tank cool down when coming out?

Thanks and congrats!

-Laere

gacktt
05-04-2010, 09:27 AM
Can you 3 heal it feasibly on 10man if you have shadowmourne and 277 raid gear? our raid comp doesn't have a holy paladin and our group is pretty tight knit, we want to 3 heal it (disc priest + holy priest + resto druid) and not have to get some holy paladin to mess up our comp.

we can probably compensate by having all 3 of our healers have 100% uptime shadow word pain/plague/moonfire if it helps.

Dunno if we should try it now or just wait 3 weeks later when the 20% buff will definitely allow us to do it.

Darksend
05-12-2010, 06:14 AM
Can you 3 heal it feasibly on 10man if you have shadowmourne and 277 raid gear? our raid comp doesn't have a holy paladin and our group is pretty tight knit, we want to 3 heal it (disc priest + holy priest + resto druid) and not have to get some holy paladin to mess up our comp.

we can probably compensate by having all 3 of our healers have 100% uptime shadow word pain/plague/moonfire if it helps.

Dunno if we should try it now or just wait 3 weeks later when the 20% buff will definitely allow us to do it.

we tried this the other night, did not go well. Our sustained phase 1 DPS was fine (still only got 2 shamblers) but the third raging spawned just as we killed the first one. normally the second one is almost dead when the third one spawns. Dont think it is doable with 3 healers until 20%

gundecker
05-16-2010, 03:44 PM
I'll post this question here since most guilds these days are probably working on hard modes.

When tanking the shambling horrors, do you stun them when they're casting the enraged shockwave? Or after?

Chamenas
05-16-2010, 09:55 PM
Why give yourself the headache? Any combination other than priest & pally relies on "what ifs" & a lot of luck, which just leads to frustration. That fight wasn't meant to be beaten by anything less than a stacked team until the ICC buff stacks high. I assume as we move up the % ranks we'll see a lot more kills by different setups.
So much for "Bring the player, not the class?" :-/

Vincienzo
05-21-2010, 05:27 AM
I'll post this question here since most guilds these days are probably working on hard modes.

When tanking the shambling horrors, do you stun them when they're casting the enraged shockwave? Or after?

Interrupting the enrage cast will merely delay it until the interrupt wears off at which time the horror will re-cast enrage.

~

Does anyone have a counter for when the disease takes the horror down to below 20%, then switches mobs leaving 1 horror frenzied, then taking the 2nd horror down from high hp down and then having to deal with 2 frenzied and 1 enraged horror in p1 10 man?

It happens often in my 10's and blowing cd's reactively does not cut the cake however mindlessly blowing cd's in anticipation is not reliable and is very often wasted when running a 2 healer comp.

I am a prot warrior and conc/shockwave each enrage. We run 1 hunter which we find sufficient as should there be two horrors up, I will always be able to stun one/he will tranq the other.

Vincienzo
05-24-2010, 04:15 AM
So out of the last 15 attempts I've had tonight on LK 10 HM, 3 of them have ended up with us transitioning into P2 with a Shambling Horror still up and in one instance having that Shambling Horror Frenzied for the entire transition phase. I am taunting every single ghoul that spawns and yet lovely RNG deems it fit not to have the Horror dead by phase 2.

Blacksen
05-24-2010, 04:54 AM
Does anyone have a counter for when the disease takes the horror down to below 20%, then switches mobs leaving 1 horror frenzied, then taking the 2nd horror down from high hp down and then having to deal with 2 frenzied and 1 enraged horror in p1 10 man? Frenzy occurs after a given time interval, not percentage based.


I am taunting every single ghoul that spawns and yet lovely RNG deems it fit not to have the Horror dead by phase 2. Big mistake there. You only want to taunt ghouls until you have just enough for 2 Shamblers. When the second Shambler gets to you, you want all ghouls to be far away from you. Usually this means you only taunt 6-7 ghouls total. Any more than that and you're putting it in the hands of RNG.

Vincienzo
05-24-2010, 05:27 AM
Can you define "just enough for 2 Shamblers?"

Blacksen
06-01-2010, 02:39 PM
We're having trouble with an adequate stun rotation on heroic Lich King in the 25man, to the point where if a warlock doesn't get picked up, we're probably going to lose someone. We're consistently dealing with defile and I feel like this is our last little break to getting a kill. Our previous method, used on regular LK, was just Holy Wrath x3, but that's proving to be vastly insufficient. Most of the time, we're getting VERY close to killing them (~60%). We're seriously considering a switch to using Hammer of Justice and such, especially since 1 Hammer gives us more stun time before DR than all three holy wraths combined.

My question is this: how do you deal with hammer's cooldown without going up the protection tree? It seems you're forced to chose between Aura Mastery and Improved Hammer of Justice, which means paladins can only stun every other wave with their minute cooldown. With only 4 paladins in the raid, this doesn't seem like the best idea.

Any tips appreciated!

SeraMetro
06-08-2010, 06:38 AM
Questions..

What are you using for tank? It is hard to tell from the vid - i see a pally on the horrors but acnt see what you using on LK.

What are your dps pulling in numbers? (avarage) Are you in only 10man heroic gear? or are you doing it in full 25man heroic gear?


We are currently working on it our selves, but we have trouble with the numbers i think. We are purely doing 10man content, but some of our dps have some 25man normal gear due to pugging.

- Metro of Seradane

Kazeyonoma
06-08-2010, 09:46 AM
it's a druid.

ulyssez
06-08-2010, 12:20 PM
Can pets detonate the vile spirits in phase 3?

Valindorr
06-09-2010, 01:03 AM
I have to respectfully disagree when you say paladins are almost useless in the throne room, by making a quick switch of librams a paladin can be a very effective healer on the run by making use of Holy Shocks/FoL as anyone who has ever pvp'd on a holy would know.

Pripadnal
06-13-2010, 12:07 AM
Hello, Last night we spend 40 attepts on LK heroic p1.

Every thing is fine to 80%, but when the second Horror spawn, we have problems with the horror tank.
Our healers setup is Holy pal (me) and disc priest. The priest try to put 10% less dmg on the tanks all the time. in the end of p1 i nonstop spam Holy lights wih CD and still the tank die in second from fast hits 50k. Both tanks are 75k buffed.

The war tank on Horrors try to stun him on enrage.

Please tell me some tips how to control this. On the movie i see the horror die before p1.5 .

Any tip

uchiro
06-15-2010, 07:20 AM
We're having trouble with an adequate stun rotation on heroic Lich King in the 25man, to the point where if a warlock doesn't get picked up, we're probably going to lose someone. We're consistently dealing with defile and I feel like this is our last little break to getting a kill. Our previous method, used on regular LK, was just Holy Wrath x3, but that's proving to be vastly insufficient. Most of the time, we're getting VERY close to killing them (~60%). We're seriously considering a switch to using Hammer of Justice and such, especially since 1 Hammer gives us more stun time before DR than all three holy wraths combined.

My question is this: how do you deal with hammer's cooldown without going up the protection tree? It seems you're forced to chose between Aura Mastery and Improved Hammer of Justice, which means paladins can only stun every other wave with their minute cooldown. With only 4 paladins in the raid, this doesn't seem like the best idea.

Any tips appreciated!

You can definitely use hammer, though I've always done it as a prot warrior and opened up with shockwave, which is one of the best group stuns to utilize and then we followed that up with individual stuns 1 time. Our third and final stun would come towards the end if they were close to the edge. The initial 2 stuns are the most important to take advantage of aoe/cleaves.

uchiro
06-15-2010, 07:25 AM
Hello, Last night we spend 40 attepts on LK heroic p1.

Every thing is fine to 80%, but when the second Horror spawn, we have problems with the horror tank.
Our healers setup is Holy pal (me) and disc priest. The priest try to put 10% less dmg on the tanks all the time. in the end of p1 i nonstop spam Holy lights wih CD and still the tank die in second from fast hits 50k. Both tanks are 75k buffed.

The war tank on Horrors try to stun him on enrage.

Please tell me some tips how to control this. On the movie i see the horror die before p1.5 .

Any tip

If dps is good then of course you will only get 2 shamblers before the transition. If you are getting adequate stacks before the second shambler spawns you should only have a short time to deal with both adds being up at the same time. As soon as the second add spawns and is about to enrage then the tank should start using cd's. At the very least his own cd's should last long enough for the first shambler to die and he will be relatively safe, in the occassions where the first shambler is up a little longer they will have to call for an external cd. Other than that, I have never had any problems on the shambers once we got the cd's timed properly and had healer cd's ready to go as mine were falling off as needed.

Fhres
06-30-2010, 06:53 AM
Could someone explaine how frostmourne phase works exactly?
1) The bombs seem to spawn everywhere, not only above players I think?
2) Will the wicked spirits start to fly towards the raid, or will they stay in the air?
3) Do the wicked spirits respawn, while the raid is in the room? After how many seconds do they respawn?

Kazeyonoma
06-30-2010, 10:34 AM
1) they only seem to be spawning everywhere at the beginning of the phase due to people entering the room all over, so the easiest way to do this is to collapse into the middle, and have 1 person designated (marked) to be the leader and shortly after dodging the bombs, you'll notice they start dropping behind you constantly (due to stacking)

2)vile spirits while IN the throne room don't seem to descend, but the more you have up when the throne room ends means more of them that WILL descend outside of the throne room which means having your OT blowing up more of them. More you kill the better.

3) I don't believe they respawn.

hacki
07-07-2010, 01:28 AM
If you kill all wicked spirits (e.g. with starfall) they will respawn slowly after ~10sec (at least that's what i observed)

Shodowz
07-14-2010, 10:26 PM
Just a clarification, While tanking the shambling horrors, the ghouls are staying on LK tank and necrotic plague is only going to the shambling horrors and not bouncing to the ghouls ?

It looks like in the vid that plague is only being given to the shambling and nothing to the ghouls as they burn them down on Phase 1.5/2 is this correct ?

My guild have just gotten GotIR and are starting HM LK on sunday, Phase 1 seems to be the hardest part of the fight imo, every other phase looks to be more communication than anything.

Phase 1 is the only thing im unsure about as to what i stated above.

I am a prot warrior and i am going to take the shambling horrors myself, we are only a 10 man guild in near full 264 gear, we dont run a hunter in our comp (not that we need one) enrages i should manage ok but more the fact of the mini enrages that i just have to eat is whats worrying me.

Any tips on P1 or anything other part of the phases that guilds are struggling with would be great.

Shodowz.

Darksend
07-14-2010, 11:55 PM
Don't know how they did it in the video, or what tanks they used, but as a feral druid LK tank it would have been impossible for me to keep agro on adds off the ret paladin and fury warrior in our group who have AOE in their normal rotation and the ghouls would have broken the shields making infest harder to heal up on those 2. However, that aside, we would have given all the ghouls to the off tank anyway as it builds up the stack faster as well as killing the ghouls faster. They do have a rouge in the video so I am not sure why they are not tricks-ing the ghouls to the offtank.

Shodowz
07-15-2010, 12:08 AM
Yeh thats what im unsure of mate, in normal mode i tank shambling with vig on pally tank and spam taunt the ghouls to me, but in this video im not sure why the tank is only tanking shamblings by himself and the MT has LK and all the ghouls, im just a little confused.

Knails
07-15-2010, 10:15 AM
My guild is about ready to finally take him down on both 25 & 10 Heroic mode, as me being a Protection Warrior is there anything I should take note in this fight that may be bad for me, such as us being a horrid Heroic Sindragosa tank.

Raid Comp:
Prot Warrior
Feral Druid
Ret Paladin
Warlock
Assassination Rogue
Arcane or Fire Mage
Marksman Hunter
Enhance Shaman
Disc Priest
Holy Paladin

All raid members are basically 277 geared with our Ret equipped with Shadowmourne.

In our normal 25-Man kills I tank Arthas and our Feral tanks the Shambling Horrors - should this be reversed for this encounter? Also, would you suggest any different class combination for optimizing a down?

Kazeyonoma
07-15-2010, 10:39 AM
probably just an early strat, the best way we've encountered is have the OT take all of the adds including ghouls so it can stack the plague faster, if you have a rogue foktricks the OT it shouldn't be a problem. Handle enrages, and you're set.

Also for HM LK, phase 1 after you figure out a strategy to control the shadow traps, it's no different from regular phase 1. the biggest part of the fight really boils down to the transition phases. That's where you'll probably wipe a lot, either going in or going out. because the constant damage that goes off from being near people does require management. You'll also likely have a shambling or ghoul still up on your OT so he needs to be on the side until they die on their own and he gets a dispel. the raging spirits have a LOT more health, first transition we normally enter the 2nd phase with 1 spirit up around 75-50%, and careful management of his conal silence/nuke is important to prevent death of clothies or silencing of healers. Once that's down phase 2 operates almost exactly the same as phase 2 normal, valk has more health but you only need to get em to ~50% then they fly up and begin nuking, but they do have a threat table, so your OT needs to taunt them and hit em with an attack or two to hold aggro, then it's just avoid defiles, stack for new valk(s), and burn valk->LK and keep taunting/keeping aggro on the floating valks. Transition 2 is the real killer, because of the extra add, even with bloodlust we find it's very difficult to keep up with their spawning, and right as transition 2 ends, you get sucked into frostmourne, you do the kiting thing, then you come out, DEFILE instantly, AND you still have the extra add that is STILL alive outside that sometimes will run across the map to get on your Tank and thus conal attack your raid, AND you have vile spirits to kite/absorb. Once you finish off that remaining raging spirit, THEN the fight smooths out and it's just rinse repeat constantly, but while that add is up, your survival chances are basically on thin ice. At least that's the experience I've had, phase 1 and phase 2 we got past on our first night of attempts, but we constantly wiped at 35-39% because of that damned raging.

Blacksen
07-15-2010, 12:01 PM
In our normal 25-Man kills I tank Arthas and our Feral tanks the Shambling Horrors - should this be reversed for this encounter? Also, would you suggest any different class combination for optimizing a down? We use a prot warrior in both the 10man and 25man to tank the Shambling Horrors, though this is really just personal preference. We use a prot warrior because you can put vigilance on a tank or DPS and get all the ghouls over in addition to the Horrors. Warriors also have a wide range of cooldowns to use whenever a Horror becomes frenzied in addition to two long-duration stuns.

You should get rid of the rogue and enhance shaman and pickup an elemental shaman and another caster DPS.

Knails
07-16-2010, 01:37 AM
We changed up our comp a little bit and went with 2 Boomers instead, also with me OTing the Horrors, our best attempt was our last attempt for the night reaching a 53% and only getting 2 Shambling Horrors by the end of P1 - which I think is really solid for a night of tries - we only did about 5-6 tries on him total as we had to clear all of ICC. I know a majority of the wipes happen between 35-39% because of the Harvest Soul & immediate defile afterwards, but again I think we did pretty awesome & we're going back in Friday & Sunday night.

Blacksen
07-16-2010, 06:25 AM
I know a majority of the wipes happen between 35-39% because of the Harvest Soul & immediate defile afterwards, but again I think we did pretty awesome & we're going back in Friday & Sunday night. Those two mechanics specifically are arguably the easiest points in the entire heroic Lich King encounter. When you come back up for Harvest Soul, your entire raid should just immediately start running away from Lich King.

More challenging is that the first melee swing Lich King does will apply Soul Reaper. after coming up from the Frostmourne room. There's a 3-4 second delay before that happens, however, as LK goes through his 2-second Defile cast and you can kite the Lich King for a bit. Just make sure your tanks are ready for cooldowns.

Oriana
07-18-2010, 11:45 PM
Hello everyone!

In your guide you say that "any spirits you did not kill in the throne room will also become active outside on top of the new ones the Lich King will summon." Can somebody confirm or disapprove this? Is it really worth to clean the throne room or is it just enough to kill the spirits which are trying to approach the raid?

Added: Oops, I just saw that this was answered on the previous page.

Blacksen
07-19-2010, 11:58 AM
In your guide you say that "any spirits you did not kill in the throne room will also become active outside on top of the new ones the Lich King will summon." Can somebody confirm or disapprove this? Is it really worth to clean the throne room or is it just enough to kill the spirits which are trying to approach the raid?

That is not the case. The spirits down in the Frostmourne room are called "Wicked Spirits."

However, it is definitely worth killing all wicked spirits. A single explosion will almost surely wipe the raid. Luckily, this isn't a problem. Wicked Spirits have 4k health in the 10man and 8k health in the 25man. A single seed of corruption will easily kill all wicked spirits in the 10man and almost kill them all in the 25man. Most of the time, you'll kill every wicked spirit in the room and wait for respawns. If you have a balance druid, this is definitely the case, as the first Starfall will clear out the entire room. Wicked Spirits respawn about 4-5 at a time every 7-8 seconds.

Ultranutter
07-20-2010, 04:26 AM
Thanks loads for the video, this info will help us this week when we attempt the kill :)

gom
07-20-2010, 11:59 AM
Hey I have a question about the LK 25 Hard Kill from Premonition.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HD4ItfCnxEs

As you can see they handle Necrotic Plague a bit differently as the most guilds. They have two camps one with Ghouls (for stacking the plague I guess) and another with the Shamblings. I think this method is really great because of the heavy necrotic plague ticks you can greatly reduce the time where the shambling is both enraged and frenzy.

But I donít really get it how this works in detail? Obviously the players have to drop the plague alternately between the goul and the shambling camp but why?

Savannah
07-26-2010, 12:18 PM
Great guide, but just to confirm - at this stage (icecrown buff at 10% going up to 15 next week probably) you would say that a 6 dps set up and a disc priest are absolutely needed?

I ask because our raid group currently has 3 healers, one of every class except Priest, and if this is the case we're basically stuck till the buff increases :(

I'm wondering the same; we currently run holy paladin/resto druid on most fights, with the option of a resto shaman (or on occasion, holy priest, but I'm a greater asset as shadow). Our shaman's elem dps has improved substantially, but I don't see our druid putting out moonkin dps to compete with my shadow dps and to top that off I'm holy and my gear isn't exactly set up for disc (I'm probably incredibly low on crit for starters).

Blacksen
07-26-2010, 02:33 PM
But I don’t really get it how this works in detail? Obviously the players have to drop the plague alternately between the goul and the shambling camp but why? It's actually pretty simple. In the 25man heroic, most guilds use one of their cleaving melee dps to tank all of the ghouls in melee range before they go over to the offtank. This achieves 2 things: 1) It makes it really easy for the tank to know who has the ghouls on them, and 2) It helps control Infest more (can't bubble people getting hit by ghouls). Usually you have the person stand in melee range and they just naturally get the ghouls. A fury warrior using cleave over heroic strike works. So does a ret paladin with seal of command.

Premonition simply has their "add tank" tank the ghouls outside of the raid. You don't need a real "tank" to tank the ghouls - any plate-wearing melee will do fine. They drop the disease in the ghoul camp first because it will build up faster in the ghouls (only takes 5 or 10 sec to jump OFF a ghoul and gain a stack, while it takes 15 sec for a horror). They drop the next one on the horrors because they then have 2 plagues growing every 5-15 seconds rather than just one.

Honestly though, you can really do the disease any which way you want. Bouncing the plague off ghouls only builds it up marginally faster. Any complicated Necrotic Plague strategy is likely not worth it. Just have your second tank get all the horrors and then as many ghouls as possible. Stop taunting ghouls when there's about ~5 seconds before the next shambling horror. Use all tanking cooldowns in phase 1, including Pain Suppression, Guardian Spirit, bubble-sacs, and Raid Wall. You should be able to keep the add tank completely under cooldowns for a good 20-30 seconds, including your ret paladins and such.




I'm wondering the same; we currently run holy paladin/resto druid on most fights, with the option of a resto shaman (or on occasion, holy priest, but I'm a greater asset as shadow). Our shaman's elem dps has improved substantially, but I don't see our druid putting out moonkin dps to compete with my shadow dps and to top that off I'm holy and my gear isn't exactly set up for disc (I'm probably incredibly low on crit for starters).If you're going to do a 2-2-6 setup, you absolutely must have a disc priest. It also really helps to have a holy paladin, though the fight can be done with a resto shaman too.

With the 30% buff, it is definitely possible to switch to a 2-3-5 setup, but your DPS do need to be really good (mostly 277's, mostly ranged dps).

gom
07-31-2010, 12:13 PM
Hey Blacksen thank you for explaining. I watched the movie again and I think I get it know how it works in detail.

1. First ghoul wave spawns - > picked up by the ghoul "tank".
2. First plague goes to the shambling
3. Second plague goes to the ghoul camp
4. As soon as the first plague is on the shambling, the shambling tank then taunts one Ghoul so that the plague can jump to this ghoul. When the plague is on that ghoul the ghoul "tank" taunts the ghoul with the plague back.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This step I don't understand. Blacksen you said they do this, so that they can grow 2 plagues rather than just one. But as you can see they bring the second plaugue from the shambling back to the ghoul camp why not drop the second plague directly to the ghoul camp?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5. Second Ghoul wave spawns
6. Third plague goes to the shamblings
7. Third Ghoul wave spawns
8. Second Shambling Spawns
9.Forth plague goes to the shambling camp
10. Ghoul "tank" takes the few remaining ghouls to the shambling camp as soon as the forth plague has been dropped
11. Forth Ghoul wave spawns
12. Fifth plague goes to the ghoul camp
13. Transission after ~2min 07sec ( ~243'664 Raid DPS , ~18sec left until Shambler 3)
14. shambling tank taunts the remaining ghouls
15. end of p1

At first view this strategy looks a bit complicated but it really isn't in my opinion.


This achieves 2 things: 1) It makes it really easy for the tank to know who has the ghouls on them, and 2) It helps control Infest more (can't bubble people getting hit by ghouls).That's right and I also think it is easier for the off tank to focus on the stuns and usage of cooldowns because he doesn't has to taunt the ghouls all the time. Our off tank had many problems picking up the ghouls:
the ghouls often turned back to a cleaver after a taunt because the way was too long or he couldn't land an attack on the ghoul in time. So he asked the melees if they could step down a little with AE in addition he used vigilance (glyphed -_-) on me (MT) wich resulted in poor Aggro. I said he could put vigilance on a cleaver who has always a ghoul which would have the same effect his response was that I should try a littler harder..
Of course this resulted in dps problems third shambler etc. positioning was also bad.

I think the strategy of premonition also favours permanence in p1 which we absolutly don't have atm. (well only 8 trys until now but anyways you get the point.)

amfeetamiin
08-01-2010, 09:58 PM
I wish to know what AddOns you use on theese movies. I have always admired TankSpot's AddOns.

Savannah
08-02-2010, 09:16 AM
We're having trouble with an adequate stun rotation on heroic Lich King in the 25man, to the point where if a warlock doesn't get picked up, we're probably going to lose someone. We're consistently dealing with defile and I feel like this is our last little break to getting a kill. Our previous method, used on regular LK, was just Holy Wrath x3, but that's proving to be vastly insufficient. Most of the time, we're getting VERY close to killing them (~60%). We're seriously considering a switch to using Hammer of Justice and such, especially since 1 Hammer gives us more stun time before DR than all three holy wraths combined.

My question is this: how do you deal with hammer's cooldown without going up the protection tree? It seems you're forced to chose between Aura Mastery and Improved Hammer of Justice, which means paladins can only stun every other wave with their minute cooldown. With only 4 paladins in the raid, this doesn't seem like the best idea.

Any tips appreciated!

Get some rogues.

-----
EDIT
-----
I guess I could be a little more specific. Rogues > Paladins for stunning. Why you think Paladins are your be-all, end-all is beyond me.

Assign each rogue in your raid to a mark (DBM assigns circle, triangle, and diamond, iirc, to the valks). Ideally you have three, but you may only have one or two in which case assign Paladins to your remaining marks--two paladins per mark so they can alternate waves.

Make sure that no one else is using other stun mechanics because they'll trigger DR and screw you over---however, cheapshot (at least in normal 25, idk about heroic) is off the DR so rogues should save up a couple combo points and be ready to vanish+cheapshot if the valks get too close to the edges. Paladins should save Holy Wrath for near the edge if valks are getting away--and you should have someone specifically assigned to do this.

Communication is key when managing the valks like this: rogues and paladins have to call "circle is not stunned, someone else stun circle" if they get picked up (note that I said the target that needed attention, not the player name, no one cares who's picked up, just what job needs to be taken care of).

And make sure they're always slowed--we put one earthbind totem about 10 yds from the center and and another about 10-15 yds from the edge but there are lots of other slows to use too--mindflay is one of the best and if you're having trouble with slows, assign your shadow priest(s) specific targets/jobs. Things like rank 1 frostbolt are super helpful too.

Hope that helps! Oh, last thought: I assume you're doing something like this already, but you may want to make sure your raid is forming a perfect stack so that all three valks fly in the same direction and so you can set your earthbinds and whatever. We designate one raid member with the moon (I think it's the only mark DBM doesn't use on this fight) and tell everyone to stack on that person.

Fhres
08-02-2010, 02:08 PM
Question regarding the paladin hammer stuns; do you stun the valks instantly when they land (so the first stun ~1sec before the last stun) or do you wait until all three have landed and then stun them?

Blacksen
08-02-2010, 03:20 PM
Stun them as soon as you have the correct target. It's much more important to stun the correct target versus stunning quickly.

Mr.Winkle
08-03-2010, 05:06 PM
With the 30% buff is Aura mastery as needed as the stun?

Just worth considerng.

gom
08-27-2010, 08:43 AM
@winkle: yes it is needed.

regarding valk stuns:


In order to meet the DPS check, you will need absolutely maximized stun time on all of them, and they need to remain in cleave range of each other. Ideally, this means every wave needs an assigned Hammer of Justice for each valk. This is YET ANOTHER reason why you bring 5 paladins. The prot paladin will be speced for reduced CD HoJ and can get every wave of valks himself, and the two holy paladins and two ret paladins will each pair up and alternate getting one Valk every other wave. The reason you use HoJ is that it is the longest stun in the game that can be instantly applied when all the valks are all stacked together when they first land and are in cleave range. Kidney Shot, the other stun of the same length, requires too long a ramp up time to reach full duration, and should instead be used as the secondary stun on each valk following the HoJ expiring. Note that the paragon comp, in addition to having the 5 paladins, has 3 rogues. This means that each valk wave looked like this:
Valk 1 (HoJ from prot pally -> Kidney Shot from Rogue 1)
Valk 2 (Hoj from holy pally 1 or 2 -> Kidney Shot from Rogue 2)
Valk 3 (HoJ from ret pally 1 or 2 -> Kidney Shot from Rogue 3)
The final stun after the kidney shots all expire would be a simple holy wrath from one of the ret paladins.

Best way to do it imo.

Emmering
09-17-2010, 11:07 AM
I am hoping for a little help on this with 25-man. Our raid is currently wiping a lot in phase 1 due to our add tank dying. We have a bear and a DK tank, originally the DK was on LK and our Bear had adds, but they switched it up and we still tend to get splats when we have two shamblers up. We only have one hunter, so dispeling every enrage is impossible. We tend to lose them right before our transition to phase 2. We do have cooldowns popped on the offtank, but it seems they still get oneshot sometimes.

This is really preventing a lot of our time to work on progression in phase 2, which we are actually doing better at when we get there, but we can't get there consistently. Is the ghoul tank strat recommended to take some stress off our add tank?

Darksend
09-19-2010, 08:05 AM
We only have one hunter, so dispeling every enrage is impossible.

then use a rogue and tell the hunter to just focus on DPS

Kazeyonoma
10-08-2010, 02:07 PM
we just got this kill with no hunter, no blood lust, no ret/prot paladin. for the enrages, we had myself (warrior tank) and our fury warrior, just stun the adds whenever they got enraged. LK casts so much, i can freely charge/intercept/shockwave/concblow the enraged adds once my fury runs out of stuns, and still reposition back to LK before he even moves.

joeluck
11-11-2010, 04:36 AM
Hi everyone,

First of all, I wanna thank you for you guides which are very helpful and very well detailed.
However I got 3 questions about the litch king hard mode version :
- In phase 2, when the valkyr drop the player and start a life siphon on player, do we have to kill the valkyr? If not, I guess the valkyrs disapear in transition phase 2?
- Does the Warlock "teleportation" (sorry, dunno the english name for that spell) still work with valkyrs?
- In phase 3, when the whole raid get teleported into the throne room, does the trash mob (in normal version) is still there? Or we only have to manage with vile spirits and bombs?

Thanks in advance if you can answer those little detailed precisions :)

Xcuse
11-12-2010, 04:08 AM
Hi everyone,

First of all, I wanna thank you for you guides which are very helpful and very well detailed.
However I got 3 questions about the litch king hard mode version :
- In phase 2, when the valkyr drop the player and start a life siphon on player, do we have to kill the valkyr? If not, I guess the valkyrs disapear in transition phase 2?
- Does the Warlock "teleportation" (sorry, dunno the english name for that spell) still work with valkyrs?
- In phase 3, when the whole raid get teleported into the throne room, does the trash mob (in normal version) is still there? Or we only have to manage with vile spirits and bombs?

Thanks in advance if you can answer those little detailed precisions :)
You don't have to kill the Valkyrs - to be exact, you shouldn't dps them at all once they're at 50% hp.

The Warlock Teleport still works just fine. It's especially great to have a Warlock picked on the 2nd and 5th (?) Valkyrs as that's where the Valkyr -> Defile timer is really tight.

During the Frostmourne Room all you have to do is survive the Wicked Spirits (by killing them before they reach you) while avoiding the dropping bombs. Instead of having to kill the mob fighting Menethil you have to kill Wicked Spirits.

Hope that clarifies your questions.

joeluck
11-12-2010, 10:03 AM
Thanks for your quick answer. This is exactly the informations I needed.
We're gonna raid tonight with my guild, I hope we'll success to kill him :)

Valkiryn
11-14-2010, 04:21 PM
Am I seeing this right? The add tank is ONLY holding the Shambling Horror? I do not see any ghouls on the off tank. or am I missing them somehow? And what is the reason for this? Is it to make sure the plague only has the option of jumping to the horror? In my normal LK fights I usually end up tanking all the ghouls as well as the horror and it stacks the plague up really fast. This way seems like the plague will stack not as fast meaning the horror is up longer. Correct me if I am wrong.