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Ironoath
04-23-2010, 05:10 AM
Hey guys,

I'm taking the new guild to Blood Princes on ICC10 this Sunday and am pondering only using 2 tanks here instead of 2+1 warlock tank. As paladin I'd take the centre prince and the guy on the right leaving the warrior to deal with the orb guy (apologies fo rnot knowing exact names off the top of my head!).

I'm sure I've seen a video of this so I think it's viable but do you guys have any tips at all for the warrior who'll be on the orb guy?

One hunter and 3 mages will be our ranged for this encounter, if thats relevant at all :D

gabbu
04-23-2010, 05:45 AM
Thats a very good setup and we use warrior on both 10 and 25 man. Orb are all in melee range and warrior can pick them up by charge intercept and intervene. Once you get a hang of it, its really easy for a warrior.

Only tip I have is set boss on focus to know when he is active and heroic throw him every cd to keep some aggro. Also if you dont have enough orbs (somehow) when he is active just chain cd's. Also please remember that picking orbs does not give you aggro on the boss so when the boss gets active you will have to keep threat on him.

Jakhammer
04-23-2010, 05:49 AM
The warrior will have a difficult time tanking Keleseth, due to his damage being magic based. In order to reduce the damage from his Shadow Lance, you need to have the Dark Nuclei affixed to you. These spawn at random around the room, so it's advised that you have a tank that has ranged attacks. Honestly, a DK tank works well if you plan on 2 tanking.

If I were you, however, I'd determine who your best mage was and assign that person to tank the boss. We don't have a warlock in our regular raid group (o.O) and so are forced to use the mage. RNG sometimes causes issues, but she's gotten really good at chasing the Nuclei and range tanking that boss very well.

In the end, the lack of a reliable ranged attack marginalizes a warrior for Keleseth. You'd be better to switch your tanks instead, if you are convinced on using the 2 tank only method.

Queepeg
04-23-2010, 07:30 AM
I have tried tanking Keleseth as a Warrior, I found it frustrating for a number of reasons. I can charge, intercept or even intervene around the room but I found it difficult to keep the aggro whilst hunting the other orbs. A DK tank's diseases will tick away nicely on the orbs, as will a Warlock's DoTs.

I'm not saying it's not feasible, especially with the support of a hunter/rogue, but the large amount of movement is extremely chaotic. We also had a shammy healer who didn't appreicate me going from one side of the room to the other. Be sure to be in range of Kelseleth when DBM indicates a switch is due, then you either attack him or go back off on your merry way to get more balloons.

Maybe I'll get another go at it and feel differently...

Mammoth
04-23-2010, 08:18 AM
Any reason the warrior can't just use his range attack? It's weak, sure, but you only need to hit the Nuclei with an attack of some kind to get them attached to you. I tanked Keleseth a bunch as a druid with only Feral Faerie Fire and that's on a 6 second cooldown. I'd recommend getting 3 nuclei on you then wailing away on Kel a bit to get a decent threat lead. Build threat while the others are empowered between grabbing nuclei. Once Kel is empowered ignore him; concentrate on getting as many nuclei as you can. DPS just has to make sure they don't steal aggro during that time.

Make sure your Kel tank doesn't end up autoattacking nuclei to death. I found it was helpful to have Kel focused so I could easily switch targets to him after I tagged a Nuclei.

gacktt
04-23-2010, 09:12 AM
Ranged attack? you mean that thing he can only do once every 60 seconds?

let the paladin take nuclei and warrior double tank, it's much easier overall that way.

TomHuxley
04-23-2010, 09:21 AM
Yeah, warriors are not really tuned well for holding ranged threat. I usually tank the two melee bosses and we have a lock on the Kel. If you really need to have your warrior do it, I'd say to remind him/her to put a throwing weapon in the ranged slot to throw at some of the closer nuclei.

Ironoath
04-23-2010, 09:33 AM
wow, thanks for all the swift replies guys :D

I'm just trying to kep things simple. The guys in the raid are new to me as players so I'd rather trust the jobs to people I have prior knowledge of. My officer is a warlock and I've got her learning how to do it but she won't be here Sunday so I guess I'll have warrior on dual tanking the two bosses whilst I (Paladin) try to contain Kels and grab orbs. Seems sensible :D

Kloon
04-23-2010, 09:51 AM
I just did with my paladin tank in a Pug, we used 2 tanks, one (Another paladin tank, and to give you an idea about his gear, 5.7k GS) he tanked Taldaram and Valanar alone.

As for Keleseth, I tanked him also as a paladin, no need to spec anything specific, you get very easy threat on the boss, just go through 2 times of your rotation, or one and go hunt orbs, and if you happen to run low on orbs when his empowered, you pop a cooldown or two and hunt for some new in the meantime. Also, while you run around like a crazyman you can also throw Hammer of Wrath at Keleseth (Because he have 1% health) which and get more aggro that way. This was my first time tanking him and it was a 1shot

Honestly, I think a warrior would also do just fine tanking Keleseth, because I could easily hold aggro on the boss and pick up the orbs, even when i didnt use my ranged abilities (Avengers shield)

And to give you an idea about my gear, I had 5918GS, with my gear i would probably have been better tanking the melee bosses, but I didnt quite trust the other paladin to do his job properly with Keleseth :)

Also, if you ask me, doing Keleseth as a paladin was god damn easy, I think the biggest challenge with 2 tanking is keeping the tank tanking melee bosses alive (If you have good healers, that shouldn't be a problem), we did it with 1 holy paladin, 1 holy priest and 1 resto shammy.

gabbu
04-23-2010, 09:54 AM
I dont know why people say warriors cant do it. I have been doing it for past 3 weeks for my guild on both 10 and 25 man and I have no issues. It take a few attempts to iron out things but once you have it figured out its pretty easy.

Just shield slam, dev him to begin with collect orbs and hit him with heroic throw every CD and shield slam as and when you can, than as soon as he becomes active charge him do a SS-dev-SW and run out pick a new orb charge in rinse repeat. Its honestly easier than it sounds.

Kloon
04-23-2010, 09:56 AM
I didn't say a warrior was bad for tanking him :)

gabbu
04-23-2010, 10:06 AM
I didn't say a warrior was bad for tanking him :)

I was not really pointing at you, I am just saying the general impression you get from this thread seem to indicate that its bad to use a warrior as Orb gatherer.

But I tank that fight as Keleseth tank every week atleast once and is easily doable.

Samia
04-23-2010, 11:03 AM
Hey guys,im the warrior that will be tanking with Ironoath on sunday.Im gonna give Keleseth a go as it sounds like a neat challenge for me,i do have 1 question though.

Do the orbs react to healing like other mobs do?(ie,if i dont keep steady aggro on them will they change target to a healer?) Or can i just throw something at them and move on?

Thanks

Terra
04-23-2010, 11:04 AM
Yes, healer aggro can take orbs off you.

saedo
04-23-2010, 12:29 PM
I thought the orbs don't operate on threat and only latch on to whoever is the last person to hit it (dmg or debuff wise).

Mammoth
04-23-2010, 01:05 PM
Yeah, warriors are not really tuned well for holding ranged threat. I usually tank the two melee bosses and we have a lock on the Kel. If you really need to have your warrior do it, I'd say to remind him/her to put a throwing weapon in the ranged slot to throw at some of the closer nuclei.

This is the ranged attack I was referring to, your gun/bow/thrown weapon. I know warriors don't use shoot or throw for anything anymore but from what I understand it should work for nuclei. You don't need to hold threat on them, just hit them with an attack and they'll stick to you.

Skyru
04-23-2010, 02:03 PM
Honestly the easiest way for a warrior to tank Keleseth is to use a thrown weapon to pick up the orbs. It is really fast and simple. As someone else mentioned it is the last attack on them that draws aggro. You also do significantly less damage than if you had shield slammed which means they will live a little longer.

This also lets you build up a good amount of threat on Keleseth because you don't have to move around quite as much. You need to instill on the raiders though that they cannot do any kind of aoe/cleave abilities when attacking keleseth. Using pestilence, divine storm, chain lightning, whirlwind etc. will hit the orbs and pull them off of you.

My advice is to grab the emblem thrown tanking weapon... there are a few fights where it can really come in handy. This is how I tank the orbs...and how I kite the big ooze on rotface. Run, throw, run, throw, run throw and save heroic throw for a second mob.

Thrown weapons are much faster than using a gun meaning you can get off the attack faster.

Another note... the gunship battle is a great place to level your ranged weapon skill as a warrior tank :P

proudmoore
04-23-2010, 02:11 PM
I've never understood why people bother with a ranged tank. On 25-man, you'll likely as not have 3 tanks anyway; on 10-man, a third tank seems to be overcomplicating the fight, especially as you may need ranged to be working on the beach balls anyway.

It is possible for Healers to acquire the balloons, although I don't know how, since I'm pretty sure the tree they always follow isn't smacking them. If it was healer aggro, a tank could never hold onto them for as long as they do.

Generally, you want to generate 3-400k threat on Keleseth, and then (or 10-15s before target switch), go hunting balloons. If Keleseth doesn't become active, go generate a bit more threat. Particularly when Keleseth IS active, steer clear of the melee bunch around him. If people aren't paying attention, they can easily steal balloons off of you, which can precipitate bad stuff. Pure AoE doesn;t pull them - but no matter what we do to avoid it, they do sometimes get stolen, so keep clear!

Kinch
04-23-2010, 04:07 PM
Honestly the easiest way for a warrior to tank Keleseth is to use a thrown weapon to pick up the orbs.

This.

CoolNitro
04-24-2010, 05:51 AM
If you have problems with 2 tanks then try using any range class to tank him warlocks aren't the only class that can do it mages and shadow priests work just find though shadow priests have dispersion which is great for damage reduction.

redneck6979
04-24-2010, 12:52 PM
We use two tanks, the Paladin picks up Keleseth and I (warrior) pick up the other two. We find this the easiest way to do it. You just need to watch the floor and be ready to move, raid awareness is very important with this encounter. We tried a range tank but they are all just to squishy compared to the plate tanks.

Ironoath
04-25-2010, 10:12 PM
just a quick note to say thank you :D

After a few wipes whilst guys got to grips with kinetic orbs and empowered stuff we downed the blood princes and Warrior had no trouble with the orbs :D Thank you for your advice!

Livoranias
09-05-2010, 03:48 PM
Whenever my guild gets up to Blood Princes, me being a Paladin tank, I have to take Keleseth and the orb's because the orbs are easier to get with my taunt and my avengers shield, whenever i get 3 orbs i run back, get aggro on keleseth and keep going.

My warrior tank, ALWAYS does Taladaram and Valanar, that part is easiest for him.

Khilbron
09-05-2010, 03:51 PM
This thread is 5 months old, and the OP has already killed lich king. Try not to resurrect old threads, thank you.