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View Full Version : Tanking Not enough room for abilities on bars as a prot warrior



Gray Fox
04-21-2010, 11:17 AM
Hey guys, this is my first post on tankspot so I apologize if this is the wrong place.

Right now I simply don't have enough space to put all my keys or buttons. I move with WASD and I turn with the mouse. The keys I use for abilities are 1-4, Q, E, R, T, F, G, Z, X, C, V, and then shift combinations of shift 1-4, A, S, D. I've been considering using the F1-4 keys and some things on the numpad but it seems clunky.

I started making some cast sequence macros (like charge,then intercept, and trinket, then trinket) but I don't want to make it where some of my abilities aren't accessible or hidden.

I'm seriously at a loss and I'm only 72. I can try to get a screenshot of my UI or explain what exactly I have bound to what if that would help. If anyone knows any macros that save space or have examples of prot warrior layouts that would be awesome.

Thanks in advance.

Tinytankz
04-21-2010, 11:20 AM
Bartender adds several bars, plus true story you dont need to bind every thing to a key. I know i turn strafe and move with my keys and click the rest of the time. i tab around and have target target of such and such a tank.

Gray Fox
04-21-2010, 11:24 AM
Bartender adds several bars, plus true story you dont need to bind every thing to a key. I know i turn strafe and move with my keys and click the rest of the time. i tab around and have target target of such and such a tank.

First of all thank you for responding. I neglected to mention I do have a UI addon to mess with my bars. It's called dominos, but I'm not certain how similar it is to CTmod or Bartender as I've never used those. I'm working with a 3x12 grid at the moment for my bar layout.

I realize I don't need EVERYTHING bound to a key but the more things I can have bound the better in my mind. In the times when something is really called for it doesn't seem like there's time to take my eyes off what I'm doing and click an ability.

Schmevan
04-21-2010, 12:36 PM
I use f1-f12 for different abilities on all my toons, sometimes I click them more than use the keybind but I always have a keybind for it if I need it. One thing that I found helpful on my warrior (fury, not a tank) was to have all three stance bars out and put any abilities not bound to berserker stance on the other stance bars, then fill the rest of my berserker bar with non-berserker abilities that are a part of my dps rotation. Actually its my hunter, not my warrior, that runs out of bar spots so I'm sure you'll figure something out that works for you

Skyborn
04-21-2010, 12:43 PM
You say you use the shift modifier for A, S, D... why not for Q, E, R, T, F, G, Z, X, C, V as well? That's what I do. The only thing I have to click on these days are trinket procs and maybe enraged regeneration.

bling581
04-21-2010, 12:59 PM
After reading the post and replies I'm a tad confused. It almost sounds like the issue is not enough keybinds? I use Bartender instead of Dominos but you can add as many bars as you need so I'm not sure I fully understand the issue if it's just about action bar space.

Skyborn
04-21-2010, 01:38 PM
Oh I see the confusion here. It's weird that you have abilities keybound to Shift + 1 and Shift + 2 etc because for me, that switches to different bars. I think there are 6 in all for at total of 60 potential abilities on your bars that you can either click or keybind. In the default UI you'll see an up arrow and ad own arrow to the right of your bar and that toggles through the bars, and I think it defaults to Shift 1-6 to toggle through bars as well. With bartender I think it defaults to showing all 6 bars and you can drag them wherever.

Kurtosis
04-21-2010, 08:28 PM
First, Dominos = Bartender, basically. They both support the same number of additional action bars, which you can show or hide as you please. I used Bartender 3 and 4 for most of BC and Wrath, but recently switched to Dominos when I found it is a little simpler and less resource-hungry. Bartender allows more advanced customization, but nothing I need (both support Stance paging, the only thing I require).

Regarding your problem I had it too and solved it by macro'ing all my in-combat abilities to a 4-level macro:


#showtooltip
/use [mod:ctrl] ability4;[mod:alt] ability3;[mod:shift] ability2;[nomod] ability1

If you create 6 of those macros and slot them onto your Action Bar 1 slots 1 - 6, that allows you to access 24 abilities from that one action bar (and just half a bar at that) using modifier keys.

I macro the most used, most crucial abilities to [nomod], like Devastate, Revenge, Cleave, Shield Slam, TC, SW, Conc Blow, Shield Block, Last Stand, or Shield Wall.

Less crucial abilities are macro'd to [mod:shift] and [mod:alt], and least crucial to [mod:ctrl]. (with my particular setup, Ctrl is the hardest to reach)

This also lets you do interesting things, like combine multiple abilities into those macros:


#showtooltip
/use [nomod] Blood Fury
/use [mod:ctrl] ability4;[mod:alt] ability3;[mod:shift] ability2;[nomod] Heroic Strike


#showtooltip
/use [nomod] Healing Potion Injector
/use [mod:ctrl] ability4;[mod:alt] ability3;[mod:shift] ability2;[nomod] Last Stand

I wrote an intro to macros (http://www.nostockui.com/2010/01/all-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-macros/) for Matticus's site a while back that might help you get started with this if you're interested. (the title is a misnomer, I meant for it to be titled 'Macros for Clickers', but that got lost in translation).

Finally, one other problem you mentioned is that WASD is required for movement. I found this to be a huge problem when I rerolled to a rogue from my warlock and hunter back near the end of BC. Up until playing the rogue I found I could fight and move at the same time, but not with my rogue (or later my DK or War either, basically for any melee).

I solved it by switching to a Nostromo game pad. It puts the directional movement on an 8-way thumb pad, leaving your other four fingers free to use abilities while you move around (instead of requiring three fingers to move as WASD does). Then I made a UI designed to work with a gamepad (http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info16197-NostromoRaidHUD.html) instead of a keyboard.

Using macros combined with a gamepad and that UI lets me put 44 in-combat abilities on Action Bar 1, move in any direction with one finger and the mouse, and use my other 4 fingers to hit up to 3 or 4 abilities (depending on whether i use a mod key or not) at the same time (or within a GCD of each other).

The end result of all this is Zero Clicking in combat, ever. Every single in-combat ability is accessible via one hand while moving in any direction. Additionally, since the only Action Bar used is Action Bar 1, when you enter a vehicle, all the vehicle controls will also be accessible with one hand while moving.

You can get more advanced by creating separate sets of Defensive Stance, Battle Stance, and Berserker Stance macros, and enabling Stance Paging in Dominos. For example, set it so that Action Bar 1 is enabled (and 2 and 3 are disabled) in Defensive Stance, 2 is enabled (1 and 3 are disabled) in Battle Stance, and 3 is enabled (1 and 2 are disabled) in Berserker Stance.

Then put a different set of macros on each of those bars so certain Stance-only abilities will be either available or hidden depending on what stance you're in.

Amaranthine
04-21-2010, 09:54 PM
Everyone in tankspot is going to track me down and kill me for this BUT:

I use bartender, thats it, i point and click all abilities except those bound through 1-6. I move with Q,W,E,A,S,D when kiting a boss, and move with the mouse whilst running (i.e sindragosa's blistering cold)

So basically my UI, is most used abilities keyed to 1-6, then those others most used keyed to 7-=, i have a bar above that with situational abilities, like shouts and other such things. Another bar above that with panic buttons, shield wall, last stand, skeleton key etc. Then one more bar above that with mobility and pulling, basically just intervene, intercept, charge, and shoot.

I never have any problems, no aggro issues, no movement issues, and if i die of my own fault its because i failed to realize i needed a CD, not because i was too late getting to it.

So yeah, moral of my story is the simplest solution is the best! With bartender or dominos you SHOULD have all the moves you realistically need, and unlike others i know i have NEVER gone "oh shit, did i bind devastate to q, or e?"

Prolly not too much help but its something to think about :P

animalistick
04-22-2010, 05:22 PM
For my prot warrior is i have my shouts, vigilance, and trinket on f1-f12, i have my main abillities such as heroic strike, cleave devastate, bloodrage, and revenge on 1-0, than for sheild slam, thunder clap, and shockwave and disarm are "shift" 1-0, Than i have all my cooldowns,(shield wall/block etc.) potions, and other stuff on a bar above the defualt action bar that i just click on with the mouse when need. (fyi i don't use any addons such as bartender, i use the original WoW bars and you dont need to put every single abillity out there. Only ones you use like you shouldn't use sunder armor anymore with devastate becuase the glyph of sunder armor also affect devastate if you use it. Just put the abillities you use up and dont worry about any others.) I hope this helps you out.

Tinytankz
04-22-2010, 05:25 PM
Everyone in tankspot is going to track me down and kill me for this BUT:

I use bartender, thats it, i point and click all abilities except those bound through 1-6. I move with Q,W,E,A,S,D when kiting a boss, and move with the mouse whilst running (i.e sindragosa's blistering cold)

So basically my UI, is most used abilities keyed to 1-6, then those others most used keyed to 7-=, i have a bar above that with situational abilities, like shouts and other such things. Another bar above that with panic buttons, shield wall, last stand, skeleton key etc. Then one more bar above that with mobility and pulling, basically just intervene, intercept, charge, and shoot.

I never have any problems, no aggro issues, no movement issues, and if i die of my own fault its because i failed to realize i needed a CD, not because i was too late getting to it.

So yeah, moral of my story is the simplest solution is the best! With bartender or dominos you SHOULD have all the moves you realistically need, and unlike others i know i have NEVER gone "oh shit, did i bind devastate to q, or e?"

Prolly not too much help but its something to think about :P
Please i am nearing my 1800 arena rating as a clicker just learn to turn and strafe with keys

bling581
04-22-2010, 08:58 PM
There's nothing wrong with being a clicker, and players can still perform well. But it's pretty much a fact that instantly pressing a key versus moving your mouse to click on a spell is going to be faster. Mouse turning is just more precise and quicker than strafe or "keyboard turning".

Amaranthine
04-23-2010, 07:28 AM
There's nothing wrong with being a clicker, and players can still perform well. But it's pretty much a fact that instantly pressing a key versus moving your mouse to click on a spell is going to be faster. Mouse turning is just more precise and quicker than strafe or "keyboard turning".

While i don't disagree i find it infintely easier to kite a boss away from, say, a green slime puddle, with the keyboard while point and clicking abilities. Keyboard typing IS faster, but i still manage to get my mouse where its supposed to be before teh GCD expires

Casper7526
04-23-2010, 08:00 AM
Ahhh, then endless debate on clicking vs keybinding. Well everything said about is true, I'm gonna point out what I use.

`-5 + Shift `-5
Q - T + Shift Q-T (Y = ground mount, Shift Y = flying mount)
A - G + Shift A-G (Normal Movement except S is shield slam and shift S is to "back peddle")
Z - V + Shift Z-V
Numpad 0 - 9 + Shift 0-9 (Raid Markings and Raid Warnings)

Mouse 4 - Vent
Mouse 5 - vent
Wheel Down - Heroic Strike
Wheel Up - Cleave

All of these change depending on Stance (even though most have the same abilities/items) in there.

Now you might think thats alot of keybindings, but it's only because everything is keybound including fight specific macros and the coveted abilities like focus-intervene focus-this focus-that.

Now heres something pretty nifty to wrap your head around off topic.

"Did you know that using click to move as a healer on Sindragosa is a VERY beneficial movement strategy"
Think about it and you'll see where I'm coming from.

Quinafoi
04-23-2010, 08:03 AM
Warrior class doesn't have 120 abilities.
There are 10 action bars for a total of 120 action buttons... are you really running out?
Bartender and Dominos do not create additional bars, they simply make available bars your class may not have had access to otherwise (for instance a druid has significantly more stances than a warrior and is currently the only class to use all 10 bars in the base UI).

Also avoid using modifiers in macros excessively and instead use keybindings to different action button positions.

Have a button at "1" with a modifier "Shift+1" is functionally no different than simply having the second ability on a separate location with a different keybinding. While you can have insane macros that have 10 different modifiers in it, in the end it defeats the purpose of even having the buttons visible on you UI. When using modifiers in macro syntax, you don't know what the modifier does to the button until the modifier is held. Since there is no visible reference to "was ability Y Ctrl+Shift+4 or was it Alt+3" you may as well have the abilities on separate action bars, assign the keybindings appropriately and just don't show the bar at all on your UI. You had to memorize it anyway.

Only use modifiers in a macro if the abilities in question serve functionally a very similar purpose.

For example,

#showtooltip
/cast [mod:shift] Challenging Shout; Taunt
Since the two abilities are very similar in function and you would use them under similar circumstances, having a modifier to toggle between them makes some logical sense.

However when you are dealing with many abilities that are different in their use it is better to sort them out to separate action bars and keybind them differently.

[ 1 ] [ 2 ] [ 3 ] ...
[A1] [A2] [A3] ...
[C1] [C2] [C3] ...

By using keybindings instead of macro modifiers you can have the buttons on your UI in a sort of "logical" order which makes sense when you look at it. Oh, the ability I want to press is in the second (Alt) row and the third column (3) therefore is is Alt+3.

Now with those positions if you have a similar function, you can add a modifier in the macro syntax. Say the macro above for Taunt and Challenging Shout was assigned to "1". You would have Taunt as your 1 ability and Challenging Shout as your Shift+1 ability.

Don't have macros with like 5 different modifiers hard wired into them, use keybindings instead because hard wiring this many modifiers is no different than having a keybinding to a bar that isn't even showing on your UI because you have to remember the combination to use the ability.

bling581
04-23-2010, 10:09 AM
While i don't disagree i find it infintely easier to kite a boss away from, say, a green slime puddle, with the keyboard while point and clicking abilities. Keyboard typing IS faster, but i still manage to get my mouse where its supposed to be before teh GCD expires
I could see how this might be difficult with mouse moving and trying to press keybinds that are farther away at the same time. I used to move by toggling auto run on my mouse thumb button and then heal with the 18 keys on the side of my Logitech G15. When I didn't have to cast I would use the directional keys, not WSAD to move. When I switched to a mouse over healing addon it became difficult to near impossible for me to do mobile healing. I solved this by getting the Razer Naga and setting the bottom keys on the G15 to WSAD. Having all those keys accessible right on your mouse is priceless and it has made mobile healing, dps and tanking so much easier on all my toons. Of course a good game pad could do the same but the way my desk is I don't have room for a gamepad on the keyboard tray and the surface is too high to comfortably type and use a mouse.

I agree that it's just too confusing and complex trying to use multiple macro's with several modifiers each. I do the same thing Quin suggested with putting 2 alike spells into 1 macro and I have 1 modifier key that I press. Anything past 3 spells starts to get messy. I also have some setup to do things like cast Death Coil on my pet instead of my target when I hold down shift. On my Ret Paladin I'm spec'ed into imp LoH and have a modifier that casts it on the tank instead of myself so I don't waste time trying to target them. There are a lot of creative things you can do with modifiers but I couldn't imagine trying to do multiple spells and including conditional modifiers at the same time.

I can't recall offhand but if you press the modifier key down would it show the spell icon for the modifier spell? If not it would be a disadvantage if you put a spell with a modifier on it that requires a range since you wouldn't be able to easily see if it was useable or not. Not that warriors have many abilities they use outside of melee range but it's just something to think about.

Quinafoi
04-23-2010, 10:30 AM
The #show or #showtooltip in combination with the ? icon only shows the first spell that will currently evaluate to be executed (unless of course you explicitly define a spell for them to show in which case they will show whatever you explicitly define). So if you have a macro where a modifier actually changes the ability it casts, the icon will change when the modifier is held. Granted you should memorize them anyway, but a visual understanding helps. Having modifiers in macros means you have to memorize what the modifiers are and what they do because they aren't visible on your UI. This goes back to my point of using keybindings instead of complex macros. Then basically you can set up your screen as a sort of visual periodic table of actions. You can determine which combination activates which button by it's position. Only use modifiers in macros under one of two conditions...

1. You are switching between two spells which are functionally very similar. Such as switching from a single target taunt to an AoE taunt. Functionally these spells serve a similar purpose and would be used in a similar context, you want to have aggro from something.

2. You are changing the rules the ability will evaluate, such as changing the target of your ability based on a modifier. For example, if I hold the self cast modifier I want the spell cast on myself rather than on my target.

This doesn't mean macros can't have many different abilities in them. The ever so common "Oh <insert explicative>" macro for example for poping all of your off GCD survival abilities simultaneously. That is a perfectly fine macro, but it generally stands alone. You wouldn't for example have a button bound for Devastate (a relatively often used ability) and then when your modifier is held to pop all your cooldowns, Shield Wall, Last Stand, ect. This wouldn't make any sense because one ability you use often, the other ability you use rarely and are using in a completely different circumstance. Devastate you use to keep your stacks up for threat and DPS, the pop all cooldowns you use for survivability.

Trogdorrior
04-23-2010, 10:54 AM
I don't use macros for any of abilities, and I agree with a previous post about the benefit of having all of your abilities out in the open. I actually have all of my keybindings on all of my characters memorized and I love having a mostly non-cluttered screen so, via bartender, all of my buttons are nearly fully faded out until moused over. If you have less relevant buttons you can put them on fadeable bars and modify the visibility based on the scenario. Just a thought.

tlhovis
04-23-2010, 10:23 PM
Here is somethign that will help tons, buy a mouse with 2 button on the Side, bind those, now shift bind those, also middle mous button click down, bind that, shift bind that, shift bind Scroll wheel up, shift bind Scroll wheel down,

Thats a total of 8 abilities on your mouse alone

Areto
04-23-2010, 11:27 PM
I have two sets of macros. One for single target and one for multiples. I use #1-4 for this. Charge, revenge devastate and shield slam. The differant macros will either que a Hs or a cleave. For abilities you use a lot or should have easily accessed I use my mouse. I bind two then shift the other two. You really shouldn't need that many more. For things like your shouts and vigilance I put those on a seperate bar around where my mouse usually floats. I also have a macro for last stand/enraged regen combo. You can also macro bar swapping if you need.