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View Full Version : Death Knight Death Knight:Blood and Unholy DPSing: help wanted!



Takashi
04-16-2010, 02:59 PM
Hey folks! I am sure you guys have had this asked a billion and one times on here, but here I am to ask the age old question, What are the best rotations for Blood and Unholy dpsing for raids at lvl 80? I know it is a silly question to be asking while at lvl 80. See the thing is that up until I got new gear, I was specing as both blood and unholy and my rotations seemed pretty solid. and I have a gearscore of 5362 atm, I have some pretty solid gear and gemed pretty well, with str,crit, and arp gems on as well as the best enchants for me, but for some reason I am doing about 4k under both specs in reg 10 ICC, now I am referring this dps to the trash and mob fights because I know the boss fights, alot requires mechanics and strategy. So with that said here is the rotation I use for blood. First I use HoW before the fight starts, then DS>IT>PS>BS>BS>Mark of Supremacy>Hysteria>DRB>DS>DC>DS>BS>BS>DS>CD
IT>PS>BS>BS>DS>CD or Raise Dead>DS>BS>BS>BS>BS>DC and yes I am using a flask of endless rage and I am still pulling off only close to or at 4k dps which just does not seem right at all. That is my blood rotation that I got from Elitistjerks.com a while back, now even my unholy is doing the same thing, only reaching about 4k sometimes up to 6k when the diseases spread right. But here is my unholy rotation: Already have the ghoul out of course and HoW up, anyways, IT>PS>Pest>Mark of Supremacy>HS>HS>SS>DC>DC>SS>HS>HS then from there I keep freshing the diseases and use whatever comes first, both are in blood presence. My blood glyphs are: Major:Glyph of Death Strike, Glyph of Disease, Glyph of dancing rune blade. Minors: Glyph of Raise Dead, Glyph of Horn of Winter, and Glyph of Death's Embrace. Unholy glyphs are: Glyph of the Ghoul, Glyph of Plague strike, Glyph of Disease. Minors are, Glyph of Deaths Embrace, raise dead, and Horn of winter. As far as my gear and gems go, you can look em up at: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Fizzcrank&cn=Takashi I am open to all critisim and open comments and advice. I really need some good solid advice and I want to maximize my dps to the fullest but I know something just is not sitting right anymore with my dps. Please somebody, anybody, help me out. This is just been buggin me for the last couple of days because I really feel that I could be pulling alot more then about 4k especially with 10 man raid buffs and a flask of endless rage. According to WoW simulator I should be pulling 4k with solo buffs and doing about 7k with full raid buffs. Thank you guys for taking the time to read this and I really hope that someone can help me out here and I am really sorry for sounding like such a noob lol.Thanks!
Big fan of tankspot,
Takashi

Casja
04-18-2010, 11:13 AM
Im gonna stick to unholy since i feel that it is better all around than blood but here is what i see. First your tants are incorrect for your gear level. use this instead: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight#_CJEApHgy1PEqE,pFH,11723 Untill you get atleast 2pc T10 and alot of 264 gear besides that reaping is a DPS loss. Your rotation for this build will be: IT>PS>BS>SS>BS>DUMP>SS>BS>SS>BS>DUMP Keep HoW and bone shield up at all times. Now your gear looks solid just a few suggestions that will help a bit. Cahnge your meta to Relentless Earthsiege. One nightmare tear will cover the meta requirments and you can drop the AP/stam gem. Also i suggest dropping thje mark of supremacy and get a greatness card instead untill you can get a DV or better.

bling581
04-19-2010, 06:14 AM
You need to lose a lot of hit and some expertise. 8% hit (without Draenei) and 26 expertise are the caps. Your Unholy spec is a little off. You should have 5/5 Necrosis, 3/3 Outbreak, drop Reaping and Morbitiy. Also use Glyph of Dark Death and Icy Touch in place of the Disease/Plague Strike, and Pestilence in place of Death's Embrace. I would have to double check some other sources but when the socket bonus is 6-8 strength it might be better to use a strength/crit gem in the yellow slot such as on your helm.

Leucifer
04-19-2010, 01:17 PM
First.... your blood spec rotation leads off wrong. You lead off with an undiseased death strike. Yes, I know, death runes. How about getting damage causing diseases up first?

HoW >> IT >> PS >> DS >> HS >> PEST (if have glyph of disease) >> DS >> HS >> .... and from here... you will use DS - HS - PEST as needed, with the priority being keeping diseases up with pestilence, then DS > HS. At lulls or rune blackouts.... use Death Coil.

The ideal time to use DRW is after that opening sequence. You should have enough runic power to kick it off. Additionally.... BEFORE you use DRW, make sure your runes are about to refresh. My sequence for DRW is this..... Mark of Supremacy (if have) > Hysteria > DRW > IT > PS > DS > HS > HS > DC > DC > DS > HS.....

Sometimes I will skip the IT - PS combo to start and just lay in with DS and HS. Be aware that DRW does put down it's own diseases though.

One BIG question..... why on earth are you using blood strike (BS)? Please compare:

Blood Strike (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=49930)
Heart Strike (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=55262)

BLOOD STRIKE -------------------HEART STRIKE
40% base weapon dmg----------50% base weapon damage PLUS 25% to another nearby enemy
+12.5% dmg per disease--------+10% dmg per disease to each target

So..... when you're beating on trash.... if you have more than one mob close, you're hitting two and doing damage to two targets, vice one. I think that would help your dps a bit.

Hell... I don't even have as nice of gear as you do. One big thing I did notice between yours and mine.... Draecos (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Shu'halo&cn=Draecos) is my armor penetration. For a blood dps, it's important. Between my base arpen and the bonus from blood-gorged, I'm ripping through over 35% of a mob's armor. Strength is more important for the Unholy Build.

As for the Elitist Jerks blood rotation, their baseline is this:

The GoD rotation is made up of two distinct parts. There is your Open Phase (1), and then the repeated phase (2). You begin with the (1) rotation to set up your diseases, and then repeat two until your diseases fall of some how, or the enemy dies

(1) IT-PS-HS-HS-DS -Dump- DS-HS-HS-HS-Pest -Dump-
(2) HS-HS-HS-HS-DS -Dump- DS-HS-HS-HS-Pest

Source: http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t61176-blood_simple_day_music_died/#ixzz0lZy8zBtq

And yes, the other two posters are right. You can afford to ease up on hit and expertise.

Takashi
04-19-2010, 03:24 PM
When I put up the rotation I use for blood dpsing I made a mistake, I do infact use HS not BS. I was pretty tired when I wrote that lol. So no worries, I did have that right lol. Thanks guys for the replys and I will definetly give everything a shot! I really appreciate it and I will let you know how it works out.

Takashi
04-19-2010, 03:28 PM
And yes I know I need to drop alot of hit lol. alot of that is because of my gear actually, I have no hit enchants or gems for hit, Mostly it is because of Mark of Supremacy which I am thinking about getting replaced really soon and of course get rid of that stupid fail cape I have on lol but I am just waiting for the drop for that. Thanks again for all the imput folks!

Leucifer
04-19-2010, 04:42 PM
And yes I know I need to drop alot of hit lol. alot of that is because of my gear actually, I have no hit enchants or gems for hit, Mostly it is because of Mark of Supremacy which I am thinking about getting replaced really soon and of course get rid of that stupid fail cape I have on lol but I am just waiting for the drop for that. Thanks again for all the imput folks!

Just remember, the hit "cap" and expertise "cap" are soft targets. If you're a little over or a little under it isn't the end of the world.

As for the "fail cape", it works, doesn't it? The big eye opener is the pendant. That guy (pvp gear) needs to be replaced.
Some easy ones.........
http://www.wowhead.com/item=45819
http://www.wowhead.com/item=45820
both are minor upgrades and not terribly expensive (badge-wise)

Trinks are a pain in the ass quite frankly, unless you happen to be lucky to snag one while raiding. I do like this little guy though.
http://www.wowhead.com/item=42131 or http://www.wowhead.com/item=46082
and my surprise favorite........
http://www.wowhead.com/item=42341 and http://www.wowhead.com/item=42418

I know. Laugh all you want. Take the Emerald Boar..... slap in two +20 strength gems..... and viola! You just added on 164 attack power as a DK (20str + 20 str = 40 str = 80 ap + 84 ap from trinket). Only drawback is you have to be a JC. BUT........ the ONLY trinks that provide more ap are all level 213 and higher! And it's a full time effect. http://www.wowhead.com/items=4.-4&filter=cr=77;crs=1;crv=164#0-2+1

BUT..... I'd only be slapping on things like that IF you were really limited in options and the rest of your gear had you sitting pretty with hit/expertise.

Takashi
04-20-2010, 05:45 AM
Yeah I actually have the right neckpiece, I just for some reason forgot to switch it back out after BG run lol. I tend to keep forgetting to do those things sometimes but you are definetly right about the cape and the trink. The cape does work and it will suffice till I can get the one to drop for me in ICC and the trink that needs replaced, I am thinking about getting the one one from using frost emblems [Herkuml War Token] (http://www.wowwiki.com/Herkuml_War_Token) but not entirely sure if I should waste the 60 frostys for that or save up for a better gear piece. Any input on that would definetly be appreicated. As far as using the new unholy setup, it is working out perfect. I am really liking it. I have been hearing rumors of people starting a new frost/unholy DPS spec going around and wanna do some more research on it, but if it is working out well then i might switch my blood to that. From what I am hearing, that frost/unholy dps build is suppost to be excellent for boss fights then just the standered Unholy build which we all know. If anyone has used this new build in ICC please give me some input. As always thanks again for all the input and facts. It is always appreciated and fizzcrankers know how much I love to bring out the best in my dps. Thanks folks!

bling581
04-20-2010, 06:28 AM
Herkumi War Token isn't terrible for Unholy, it's actually listed as 3rd best on Elitist Jerks Unholy trinket list but I recall it being previous listed lower than that. It has a ramp up time and any high movement fight will cause your stacks to drop. Some good examples would be Marrowgar's Bonestorm if your RL has melee run out, BQL during air phase, Sindragosa's air phase, Professor Putricide phase changes (tear gas), running out on Festergut if you have to take spores to the ranged, running out with the infection on Rotface or ooze explosion, and I'm sure there's many more. Though on Rotface you could probably hit the small ooze once or twice to refresh your stacks as you run back in. I think they're rating it 3rd best provided that you're never letting your stacks drop off which isn't always possible. You could spend a few thousand gold and get Greatness to replace your hit trinket or run heroic Forge of Souls everyday for a chance at the Needle Encrusted Scorpion.

bling581
04-20-2010, 06:36 AM
First.... your blood spec rotation leads off wrong. You lead off with an undiseased death strike. Yes, I know, death runes. How about getting damage causing diseases up first?
Leucifer is right on this. It was a dps increase for the raid, but personal dps loss to start out your rotation with DS. This was to get Abomination's Might up right away if you didn't have any other attack power buffs like Unleashed Rage or TSA. However with the change to DK procs being auras now you don't have to do this. This was the only reason why Elitist Jerks suggested to start with DS.

Takashi
04-20-2010, 01:22 PM
ah ok I definetly understand what you are saying about the stacks dropping off in some of the major raid boss fights. It definetly would be very difficult to keep the stacks up and going, I wouldn't mind getting Greatness but in fizzy now one really sells em at all and if they do its at an insane price. I definetly will be doing H FoS for the encrusted needle though. As far as the old rotation goes. Yeah I definetly noticed that a lil to late, but I have been out of WoW for about 2 months to. I have been starting to use the new rotation and it is working ok, kinda, but I am noticeing that Unholy is doing better once the diseases spread. I think that if I do not try out that frost/unholy build that I have been hearing about, I will most definetly turn the blood spec into something more suitable for pvping. Time will tell on that, but first I need to hone and focus on doing one spec right at a time lol.

Sterbefall
04-21-2010, 07:46 AM
Some feedback on your current gear + spec:
1. Until you have 4pc T9 or 2pc T10, stay away from both sub frost and reaping blood Unholy.
2. Ghoul Frenzy is a waste. Desecration is a waste. Put those points back into Dark Conviction and Ebon Plaguebringer.
3. Replace Mark of Supremacy. I'm begging you. Mirror of Truth, Banner of Victory, Needle Encrusted Scorpion are all better. Herkuml is pretty nice now especially once you have the gear for sub frost.
4. You shouldn't have bought the Sigil yet. The iLvl 245 version is just about as good and doesn't cost valuable Frost Emblems.
5. Gem strength except to satisfy a meta (Nightmare Tear by itself takes care of the agility meta, works great in a blue slot) or if you can use an orange to get a +4 strength bonus or better (some say 6, but it's a tossup). Never gem crit or attack power.

bling581
04-21-2010, 09:02 AM
4. You shouldn't have bought the Sigil yet. The iLvl 245 version is just about as good and doesn't cost valuable Frost Emblems.
This, and also because Virulence is still better on some bosses if the stacks have a chance of dropping off due to phase changes or movement. The EJ Unholy thread suggests that Hanged Man is better on only 5 of the 12 ICC bosses (except for certain scenarios). It's also poor for Blood for the same reasons but even more so due to it only being triggered only by Death Strike. It's probably a longer ramp up time and I've read a few posts that say it's hard just to reach 3 stacks without modifying the rotation.

Leucifer
04-21-2010, 03:55 PM
This, and also because Virulence is still better on some bosses if the stacks have a chance of dropping off due to phase changes or movement. The EJ Unholy thread suggests that Hanged Man is better on only 5 of the 12 ICC bosses (except for certain scenarios). It's also poor for Blood for the same reasons but even more so due to it only being triggered only by Death Strike. It's probably a longer ramp up time and I've read a few posts that say it's hard just to reach 3 stacks without modifying the rotation.

I would revise this as follows:

This, and also because Virulence is still better because the stacks have a chance of dropping off due to phase changes or movement. The EJ Unholy thread suggests that Hanged Man is better on only 5 of the 12 ICC bosses (except for certain scenarios). It's also poor for Blood for the same reasons but even more so due to it only being triggered only by Death Strike. It is a longer ramp up time and I've read a few posts that say it's hard just to reach 3 stacks without modifying the rotation.

At the end of the day, you get 200 strength proc versus an "up to" 219 strength proc.
A less than 10% difference. Sure... you might have a better chance of having at least +73 str up more often. I'd be willing to bet though that at the proc rates, Virulence would come out ahead just because even on fights where you stay static a lot, there are things that can interfere with keeping that stack going.

And the cost of each? You're better spending the badges on t10 gear which will net you how much more strength/ap for EVERY strike? I'd be willing to bet that's the better return on investment than a "trinket" (yes... using that as a knock against the item).

Takashi
04-22-2010, 02:15 AM
Ok, so I pretty much have everything rounded off per what you guys have been saying on here. Biggest thing that I still need to replace is the trinket, Mark of Supremacy and then I should be pretty good. Just wanted to say thanks to all of you for all the continued advice. it's pretty nice knowing that someone is there to help you when you need it. You guys are a pretty good bunch of people. So far my dps for Unholy has been going up pretty well. I no longer use blood for dpsing, mainly use it for pvping but still am gonna tweak that to. If you guys see anything wrong with my unholy tree spec setup, by all means let me know. I could have missed something but pretty sure I fixed it. I am still haveing a lil prob getting my dps up there during raids but I just have to get the hang and feel of the rotation. I have been using the one that on eof you guys suggested in here and it is working well, I am keeping the diseases up and then its just up to keeping up priority. Just have to get the hang of it and I am working on it. So far I am doing up to 6.5k dps within ICC. Idk if that is good for my gs or not, but it feels much more nice just have to learn to keep it consitant.

Takashi
04-22-2010, 02:19 AM
Just a good question, does 6-6.5k dps sound pretty standard or decent for ICC? Sorry for all the questions btw, just trying to get this thing perfect as possible.

raynman
04-22-2010, 04:04 AM
I am not sure if you have messed with your Blood spec yet, but according to the armory you aren't using one talent point.

Takashi
04-22-2010, 07:36 AM
Yeah I fixed it actually, thanks for the heads up, I am actually staying away from blood spec for right now to, Mainly going to stick with Unholy and learn to master it :)

Schmevan
04-23-2010, 05:28 PM
Honestly I still like Virulence for blood dps, however since I've switched to frost DW Hanged Man is amazing, since I already have to stack razorice anyway, so I'm restacking like a rogue or druid during phase changes etc. anyway. In blood I'm just trying to hit heartstrike as many times as I can with DRW up. So I don't want to care about stacking anything on the boss. I haven't played much with unholy since I was level 65, so I don't know what to tell you there. I would say blood has the easiest rotation of the three builds, while frost has the hardest, I'm guessing unholy is somewhere in the middle, but somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

For Trinkets, Needle Encrusted is probably better for you than the badge trinket. 2h dps specs don't care about haste and attack power is..meh The armor pen proc would be amazing for blood however, so until you can get your hand on a death bringer's will you will probably want to farm H FoS for that trinket, good luck though, I've seen it twice on 2 toons that could use it and it got ninjaed both times