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detour
04-15-2010, 02:14 PM
Story time... Once upon a time I started playing WoW and a warlock was my main. I hit 70 (during BC) and eventually got bored with standing around dotting things, I wanted to be in the action. So I decided to re-roll as a tank. I made a Tauren warrior and fell in love. I tanked a bunch of lower level instances (RFC, WC, SM, ST, etc) and was often complemented on my competent tank ability. I quickly leveled to 58 and headed straight to Outland, eager to start tanking the "real" instances.

Disaster strikes. I had been tanking successfully at the lower leveling as Arms. For Outland, I decided it was time to man up and re-spec'ed as Prot. Unwilling to let go of Arms, I mistakenly made a hybrid spec (down to Shield Slam when that was a talent). I ran Hellfire Ramparts with a pug, wiped on the last boss... repeatedly. My confidence in my ability to tank was a shaken. Next, a healer friend I'd made while tanking ST asked me to if I'd tank ramps. I figured having someone I knew around would boost my confidence back up. We wiped on the first pull off the bridge in the beginning of the instance. twice. Needless to say, that group disbanded quickly.

Now I could have blamed the ele shaman who was pulling with chain lightning or the warlock who could have cc'd the caster mobs that were giving me trouble but I didn't. Mostly I blamed my crappy spec and re-spec'd full prot with a cookie cutter spec (this was just around the time Blizz introduced Devastate). But the damage was done, my tank confidence shattered. I tried practicing with my new spec, working on multi-tanking, learning to use the unfamiliar abilities. I'd constantly get whispers asking me to tank but I could no longer bring myself to do it. Unable to enjoy what had made the game so fun for me, I un-subbed.

Fast forward to about a month ago. I'd been missing WoW (and MMOs in general) and decided to buy WoTLK and check out the content before Cataclysm dropped. I trotted out my lock "main" and did my thing with him, learning about all the new stuff (51 point talents, glyphs, acheivements, the new dungeon finder). I was checking out my alts for fun and finally came around to dusting off my warrior. I specced Prot again and started leveling. Here was my real main. I knew then that I wanted to get back into tanking.

I've 70 now, been having fun and I'm comfortable with my spec and abilities but I haven't run an instance yet. I paid a bs to make me the cobalt set and I intend on getting a lw to make me a bunch of armor kits to push my sta a bit further. I'm worried now that don't really know any of the Northrend instances so I've been reading guides and watching videos of the boss fights. I know with the random dungeon finder I'll be grouped with people I'll probably never see again but I'm still having a hard time getting my confidence back up. To me, tanking is a responsibility, a chance to lead others and be a major factor in the success of a run. It really bothers me that I might fail at it again. So, I guess my question is, how can I get my confidence back up? How will I know I'm ready to tackle this challenge again? What if I fail again? Am I just over-thinking this? I know its just a game but I want to raid! I want to be in a guild that counts on me to be their MT. I want people complementing me on my solid tanking ability again... I could really use a vote of confidence or some words of advice...

MellvarTank
04-15-2010, 02:20 PM
Tank. Learn to tank, ask questions, read this site. It's a lot of practice, and a lot of doing. The only way to get better is to do.

Tinytankz
04-15-2010, 03:49 PM
No joke ask your group, i am in your position right now i ground 70-80 on my last warrior and never ran a herioc(i was carried through naxx given crafted gear and pushed into ulduar) so all these dungeons are new to me as i do them, i ask my group anything tricky which way ok guys tal kto me like i am some kind of stupid tank tell me whats next. try it it really helps

Insahnity
04-15-2010, 04:04 PM
Open a can of spinach and have at it, Popeye.

Tanking is a skill, but especially with PuGs,it isn't always your fault. As hard as it is, you need to run a few instances with 4 other friends (not just one) to get the feel of it.

After reading this site, you can also post your armory here and we can maybe see where you stand from a gear/spec/glyph perspective. Being correctly informed and set up is the first step.

Tinytankz
04-15-2010, 04:07 PM
O i almost forgot you are playing a warrior so i will remind you of teh easiest tanking trinket ever
http://www.wowhead.com/item=30300
a 3 peice quest chain that takes 15 minutes i had an 80 help me and it took 5

Sentas
04-15-2010, 04:10 PM
What Insahnity said - To be honest, get with a group of friends and run some heroics, you KNOW they wont yell at you if it goes wrong, as in pugs they usually do.
Eventually you'll come to feel the ease of it, and then is the time to start pugging. Good luck and have fun. ^^

Leucifer
04-15-2010, 04:33 PM
I know with the random dungeon finder I'll be grouped with people I'll probably never see again but I'm still having a hard time getting my confidence back up. To me, tanking is a responsibility, a chance to lead others and be a major factor in the success of a run. It really bothers me that I might fail at it again. So, I guess my question is, how can I get my confidence back up? How will I know I'm ready to tackle this challenge again? What if I fail again? Am I just over-thinking this? I know its just a game but I want to raid! I want to be in a guild that counts on me to be their MT. I want people complementing me on my solid tanking ability again... I could really use a vote of confidence or some words of advice...

Ok. It'd bother me more if you went into tanking saying "who gives a rats ass" and didn't care how you did or what happened to the group.

It's like anything else in life..... You always run the chance of failure. My question is this..... what kind of person are you? Are you the person who, when they lose, turns and quits? Or do you get back up, dust yourself off, learn more, work harder, fight on, and try to come back for victory?

It's good that you care. I think though, you are spending the energy worrying about it when you could be doing something positive about it instead.
So, that in mind.... get in your practice. Go for easier dungeons. BUILD your confidence up by running instances and learning. Step up for yourself and before kickoff say "hey, I'm coming back off a lay-off, so go easy on me". MOST people will cut you slack. If they don't, hey, guess what? It's only one group. I think you have part of the right "mindset".... but you just need to do it and accept the lumps.

Just remember, like the Brit SAS motto...... "Who dares wins".

latormenta
04-15-2010, 06:40 PM
I have recently started tanking and I can tell you it is more than a can of worms getting in to that. The guild I am in had a need for a DK tank, one that carries his gear with him so at any given moment as the raid lead needs I can change out and be an effective off tank in icc. But leading up to that I had to get the gear. Well I started rolling on stuff and getting things as I could . When I got enough to make a set I started tanking the instances of northrend. The point I am trying to make is ...if you are off spec'ed for dps, Run the instances as a dps and learn them and watch the tanks that you run with. You will be able to tell which tanks are good and which are bad. Try to learn what to do; but just as important what not to do. I had already ran them so much as a dps I knew them and the mechanics of the fights for the most part. Where, when and what I needed to pull next and where to pull it to. It helped me a lot to make that transition into being able to tank those instances. Now are you going to wipe? Sure you are!! Because there is always going to be some hot shot dps that cuts loose on a mob before you have sufficient agro on them. The main thing is to know what you are supposed to do, know the instances, and the rest is repetition in them to get good at them.


Success is what happens when preparation meets opportunity

Karrthus
04-15-2010, 09:59 PM
Northrend shattered my confidence. My first time pugging as a prot paladin in northrend and seeing HOW HARD the mobs suddenly hit me was staggering, I went out, picked up a full set of cobalt, and started to feel comfortable after a few pulls. Northrend will hit hard, very hard, but healers can usually keep up. Buck up, you'll be fine, just be careful when you ding 80, fresh 80s are not ready to tank heroics. Look into crafted gear and see what you can do, but its definitely going to be a startling transition.

Also, learn your tanking rotations and what not, practice on a training dummy till you get it down, muscle memory is a big part of consistently tanking well.

Arterius
04-15-2010, 10:22 PM
Confidence stems from experience. I remember tanking my first heroic at 80 and I was nervous as hell. My heart was beating, but we got through that UK just fine with no wipes or deaths. Now when I step into a heroic I just waltz through it knowing it'll be a quick and efficient run. Yes part of that is due to gear but it's also from confidence. I still get nervous before Lich King pulls in ICC though, only killed him once on 10m. :P

slypython
04-16-2010, 12:01 AM
I've got 2 pieces of advice that I remember very clearly from when I was first learning to tank:

First, Sentas offers a simple but worthwhile piece of advice in finding a group of friends to run with as a "fresh" tank. They're much more forgiving and helpful than any random PuG, and you're bound to have a good experience one way or the other.

Second, be VERY vocal about the fact that you're inexperienced and ask for assistance/advice throughout the run. Chances are that at least 1 person in there has a tank Alt, or AT LEAST has made the run enough times that they can explain what works and what the tank should ideally be doing. The worst case scenario is that nobody really knows what's going on, which in my opinion has been the most enjoyable runs that I've ever been on (though maybe a bit slow and costly in the end).

Good luck in all you do! I know I've had my confidence shattered a good handful of times, but if we weren't good at taking the beatings then we sure wouldn't be tanks!

TheScientist
04-16-2010, 12:43 AM
The fact that you dare ask about it like this, means you are serious about getting it right.
Dedicated people will always end up doing a good job, but sometimes the group is just a fail. You should try every instance a couple of times so that when you reach 80 you can tank the heroic versions of it.

Now, I tanked my way from 58 to 80 on my druid (questing from 67 with a couple of instances each day) and sometimes you get good groups and sometimes you don't. The levevling from 58 to 68 was the most interesting to me, because like you, I didn't know tactics for the instances in outlands. I did them before, but that was about 10 months ago and I have a bad memory anyways. Whenever I queue'd and got into an instance for the first time, I'd mention I was new to the instance and didn't know tacts or directions. There's always 1 helpfull guy saying what to pull and where to go. Sometimes you make a mistake and wipe the group. But the good thing is, you're a tank and there aren't too many of us at those levels. Dps'ers will stick with you unless you are total crap.
Some dps'ers can be total crap tho, ninja pulling all the time etc. Do what you must do to function well as a tank: Make it clear they shouldn't ninja pull ("you tank what you pull") and keep an eye on the healer's mana. Pull pack by pack and pull them back if you in an instance the first time. Next time you're there you know wether or not you can tank it where it is, or have to pull it back.

Warriors aren't the easiest class to tank multiple mobs with, but that doesn't mean they can't. You'll have to bind Cleave to an easy key/mousebutton and use thunderclap whenever it is off cd. The good thing about trying the instances AS a tank is that you'll learn the tanking stuff before you are 80. When you ding 80 you'll know most of the instances and you'll know better how to tank them all and grinding heroics will be easy for you.
People serious about tanking and worrying about doing a good job are already a LOT further on the tanking road than people that just want to tank. You have that advantage over other tanks. Now it's time to just try it. don't worry about your gear only. Tanking is mostly skill. The gear thingy is something your healer will worry about more than you'll have to.

A friend of my brother was levelling her druid. She was healing up until 70 level but since they had a healer in their groups of friends she decided to spec tanking. She also wasn't very comfortable with tanking at first and didn't even want to try it unless the group only had real-life friends in it. We persuaded her to tank everything she could. A few instances later she got more confidant and is now one of the better bear tanks I've seen ;-). Just go for it!
Don't worry about making a mistake. These are just regular instances. You"ll maybe piss off 4 people. Let me tell you what I did on my bear a few days ago. We did a guild ToC25 run, a 25 man raid. At the 4th boss, I run in and start tanking the boss. I slam my buttons but I can't hold aggro. I die a few moments after. Turns out my normal action bar swtiched to a healing bar and I was pressing those heals making me drop out of bear form!! Tanking a raid boss in Night Elf form ?? I felt so embarrased and everyone was laughing with my mistake. Mistakes happen, in this case 25 people paid repairs for my mistake, but at least I have a fun story to tell. You think someone complained ? They didn't. They just joked about it and got ready to try it again. "Hey are you ready ? in bear form this time ?" I didn't fail at tanking. I just made a small mistake so I couldn't tank (at all).

In the random groups you'll do, you may make mistakes and people may die. Some will be asses about it, others will undestand. But in the end you'll learn and get better at tanking. The secret ? Experience. Trial and Error. Go tank instances !

pwagen
04-16-2010, 05:24 AM
I know with the random dungeon finder I'll be grouped with people I'll probably never see again but I'm still having a hard time getting my confidence back up. To me, tanking is a responsibility, a chance to lead others and be a major factor in the success of a run. It really bothers me that I might fail at it again.
I've tanked since level 17 or 18 or something like that back in Vanilla WoW. Earlier today, when I was in an instance to try and get my 2 frost emblems of the day, I charged into a group in battle stance without noticing. Not realizing why neither Thunder clap nor Shockwave worked for several seconds led to the healer dying. So yes, you'll fail at times, but it really doesn't matter.

Also, as you probably noticed, there is a big difference between mobs from the old world compared to the ones in Outland, and there is a (relatively smaller) difference between mobs in Outland compared to Northrend. It was a big change for most people who weren't decked out in raid gear, and it probably still is. So feeling undergeared when you enter the first instances is normal, but you'd have picked up fairly soon. Same thing in Northrend. The Cobalt set is a great start. And as soon as you get a few drop/quest blues, you'll be right back where you started - tanking instances like there's no tomorrow.

Later on, you say you want to raid. The stuff you get from instances and quests is mostly good enough to start on the heroics. Get some crafted stuff as well and you're good to go. Do heroics and farm the emblem gear. It's by far the fastest way to get decked out. All the while doing this (leveling, instancing and running heroics) keep an eye out for a friendly guild who might want to take you in. Tanks are rare, good ones even more so, so you really shouldn't have too much trouble.

Keep at it and good luck :)

dotOrion
04-16-2010, 05:56 AM
I would even say TBC instances are harder, because most of them were designed with CC in mind, whereas you can mostly AoE everything in WOTLK instances.

Theotherone
04-16-2010, 06:59 AM
If you want to tank, suck it up and just do it. PuGs are filled with unforgiving butt heads who always know more then you, who are better then you and who will insult the crap out of you, you just need to grow a thick skin and have some fun. And if they get to be real jerks, you're the tank, NINJA PULL and hope they like the repair bill.

In the end it's just a game, have at it and enjoy yourself.

detour
04-16-2010, 07:30 AM
Thanks for the vote of confidence guys! I really appreciate it. I ended up queueing for UK last night, group was me, pally heals, shammy mage and rogue. I was a bit nervous so I took my time, set the pace by pulling small packs. I got into my groove, everything was going well, cleared the dragon room no problem, even remembered to turn the suckers so they don't breathe fire all over my squishys. We got to the pulls in Prince K's room and the mage (who'd been bragging about his "leet deeps" the whole time) decided that "we've been here 20 mins already" and decided to pull the 2nd pack as I pulled the first. He'd already been told by the DG not to do this ("esp with a warrior tank", his words) as he'd been trying it on previous pulls. Anyway he got two shotted and we nearly wiped. Healer and shammy were friends and managed to kite the remaining two mobs. Healer (who was DG) specifically noted to the mage, "thanks for the perfect example of what not to do". Well drama ensued, the healer refused to rez him as punishment and healer and shammy ended up dropping group. The new randoms worked out ok, I ended up downing Prince K and the second boss(es) Skarvald and Dalron. On the way to the last boss, I was having some trouble with the 4 mob pulls with casters (runemasters). Or maybe the healer was having trouble healing through it, idk. People ended up dropping group and that same mage ended up inviting an 80 ret pally to finish the last boss. Overall, despite all the problems it was a positive experience for me, downing those bosses felt great! I definitely made some mistakes: forgot to keep shield block up, forgot to rage dump, forgot about Cleave completely, forgot to burn (now really short!) cooldowns like last stand and shield wall when things were going south. But I'm learning and I'm looking forward to the weekend when I'll be able to put in plenty of time behind my shield :).

@Tinytankz: Def gonna check out that def trinket. Wonder if I can solo it...

Rotations
Multi mob: SW, TC, Dem Shout, alt-tabbing through the pack throwing SS Rev and Dev, SW/TC when off cooldown
Single mob: SS, Dev, Rev/SS whenever they proc, TC, Dem shout, more Devs, occasionally mixing in Con Blow and SW

Armory link:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Shattered+Hand&cn=Malenbrau

Theotherone
04-16-2010, 07:39 AM
Dabiri's is an easy BC trinket - I forgot about that. When I first decided to tank, I read an article on www.wow.com about getting to 540 defense, and they mentioned this trinket. You can solo it easy.

We all forget things; doing my daily this morning on my pally, I had been healing ICC 25 last night (freaking ninja PuG, but that's another story) and then decided to tank this morning, but forgot to turn on Righteous Fury and was wondering why I wasn't holding aggro in H AN. DOH!

Have fun; that's the key...along with arrogance and ignorance.

nserafini
04-16-2010, 07:53 AM
Thanks for the vote of confidence guys! I really appreciate it. I ended up queueing for UK last night, group was me, pally heals, shammy mage and rogue. I was a bit nervous so I took my time, set the pace by pulling small packs. I got into my groove, everything was going well, cleared the dragon room no problem, even remembered to turn the suckers so they don't breathe fire all over my squishys. We got to the pulls in Prince K's room and the mage (who'd been bragging about his "leet deeps" the whole time) decided that "we've been here 20 mins already" and decided to pull the 2nd pack as I pulled the first. He'd already been told by the DG not to do this ("esp with a warrior tank", his words) as he'd been trying it on previous pulls. Anyway he got two shotted and we nearly wiped. Healer and shammy were friends and managed to kite the remaining two mobs. Healer (who was DG) specifically noted to the mage, "thanks for the perfect example of what not to do". Well drama ensued, the healer refused to rez him as punishment and healer and shammy ended up dropping group. The new randoms worked out ok, I ended up downing Prince K and the second boss(es) Skarvald and Dalron. On the way to the last boss, I was having some trouble with the 4 mob pulls with casters (runemasters). Or maybe the healer was having trouble healing through it, idk. People ended up dropping group and that same mage ended up inviting an 80 ret pally to finish the last boss. Overall, despite all the problems it was a positive experience for me, downing those bosses felt great! I definitely made some mistakes: forgot to keep shield block up, forgot to rage dump, forgot about Cleave completely, forgot to burn (now really short!) cooldowns like last stand and shield wall when things were going south. But I'm learning and I'm looking forward to the weekend when I'll be able to put in plenty of time behind my shield :).


Best part of all this; you learned. I'm still a noob, but the only way to learn is to " just do it ".

My Guild Master normally likes to let me lead the pack in our weekly and ICC runs, but every now and then will pull an extra few mobs or create some sort of " gotcha ", forcing me to react on my toes. I've learned tons of stuff by doing this.

Sure, in a pug it's harder. And you'll get the random meatpie how gets all " speedrun, I have class in 15 minutes ", but so what. You're learning, and enjoy it. If it isn't fun, what's the point.

And BTW, i've started more than 1 run in 'zerker stance, wondering why my t/c isn't going off.

dragonboy
04-16-2010, 09:34 PM
There has been lots of good advise. My story is not of tanking but of healing. I was frustrated with not getting groups for heroics (this is pre-random dungeon) as a Ret Pally, so I decided to make a heals off-spec. Got a fairly good heals set together and barreled right into it. My first pug took me to H ToC and I failed miserably and my confidence was shot and I quite. A friend of mine's guild was going to be short a tank healer and I was asked to fill in. With the Dungeon Finders I quickly built up my t9 set and read every article and blog on pally healing. I thought I did ok on my first raid of ToC 10 and was asked to join the guild and was praised for my healing. The point is to follow what these guys have been saying and you will screw up at somepoint, everyone does, just learn from it. I now love healing in ICC and plan on starting up taking with my DK. Good luck and just have fun!

damionrayne
04-16-2010, 10:21 PM
Hopefully these guys helped out mate, I can only tell you that the best way to get confidence is to do a little bit of homework before you run straight into something. For me, I watched videos, read guides, talked to people on my server, and went into tanking with some general knowledge that helped me build up some confidence in myself. I went into tanking with a general idea of what to try to do and what to try and not do. Doing the same thing with healing now. I watched videos, talked to healers (pally heals) got the right addons, glyphs, everything. I do ok at healing, and I'm having fun. My gear is crap, and I run regulars to practice..but hey what can you do except just go try it?

Kurtosis
04-17-2010, 01:27 AM
You're in a good spot to pick up tanking again. If you start tanking regular Northrend dungeons at 70 with the full Cobalt set and a proper Prot spec (no more hybrids), you'll be armored enough to not feel squishy, and you'll quickly augment that with tank gear blues from the dungeons as well.

If you have gold, I'd suggest powerleveling Engineering as well for the ilvl 200 epic tank goggles (http://www.wowhead.com/item=42549) available at lvl 72 and the +885 armor enchant to gloves (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=63770) (and the fun toys like bombs, hand rockets, nitro boots, etc.).

Other than that, be extremely aggressive in attacking mobs. Warbringer (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=57499) is New Hotness, use it. Some addons like Tidy Plates: Threat Plates (http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info14984-TidyPlatesThreatPlates.html) and Omen or Skada threat meters are indispensable.

One last thing - when you tank Old Kingdom, always kill the Spell Flingers (http://www.wowhead.com/npc=30278) first. In heroic mode their Shadow Blast (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=59102) spell (6s cast) takes 80% of your hp (50% in regular mode). Save your interupts for that. They're probably the leading cause of trash wipes in all the 5mans.