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View Full Version : Mage Check me if I'm wrong....but 1 pc mage armor = 1 month?



Liltuscany
04-12-2010, 08:05 AM
I'm talking about the frost armor pieces, they are 95 and 60 frost each. Unless I'm missing something, you can make 2 frost a day, but one day a week you can make a total of 7. Right?

So the Bloodmage armor would take me about 21 weeks or 4 months to aquire? (Granted, I have one piece, just checking my facts and math.)

THEN I could try to get the Sanctifed Bloodmage stuff, which I don't understand at all.

Tinytankz
04-12-2010, 08:07 AM
ICC drops badges as well assuming 4 runs (10 man 25 man and their herioc counterparts) you can get fully geared if you clear them all in about a month and a half.

Mawini
04-12-2010, 08:16 AM
No, heroic and normal are mutually exclusive.

Liltuscany
04-12-2010, 08:18 AM
I can't get into ICC to get what I need because everyone says my DPS is too low. I can't get my DPS up without better gear, and the only gear that is better seems to be frost or in ICC.

Reminds me of back in the day, no job no experience, no exp no job.

Tinytankz
04-12-2010, 08:19 AM
Thats always a funny cycle. Can i get an armory Link? There may be upgrades to be had in ToC or even off truimph (just LFD while you daily)

EDIT: Havent had a chance to run herioc Back from BC didnt know they locked eachother out)

Liltuscany
04-12-2010, 08:22 AM
Sorry, here you go Tinytankz

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Nazgrel&cn=Liltuscany

Bashal
04-12-2010, 08:26 AM
I can't get into ICC to get what I need because everyone says my DPS is too low.

This is related to your other thread, the stuff about PvP gear and such.

I'll try to be brief: people got the DPS needed to get into ICC without needing gear from ICC.

They accomplished this by not using PvP gear. You can pick up the PvE tier 9 gear, which costs triumph emblems, which you get from doing heroics (don't downgrade frost emblems! Just do a few heroics on whatever day you can play, don't just stop at one), and some PvE drops from the ICC5-man heroics (forge of souls, pit of saron, halls of reflection).

Please trust me on this: the gear may not look as good to you, but it really, really is better for PvE.

Egrimal
04-12-2010, 08:30 AM
You can get ilvl 245 gear from Emblems of Triumph which you can get from farming heroics. I've got a druid I levelled up as balance and in 3 days play time i've got enough gear to put me mid meters on 25-man ICC runs now.

Liltuscany
04-12-2010, 08:33 AM
I am trying to understand ;0)

I am for example, comparing my current helm and the available triumph helm and my helm looks better. My current chest gear looks better too. So I appreciate hearing that the triumph gear is better, but if I switch these two, am I then going to be better DPS and get into ICC? It just doesn't look so to me.

Liltuscany
04-12-2010, 08:35 AM
PS I did "Find Random Lich King Heroic" all day yesterday (literally) and the day before. I got two things that dropped and looked better than mine. One, I then replaced with Talisman Of Resurgence.

Martie
04-12-2010, 08:40 AM
Yeah, try gear progression instead of just looking at the frost badge gear.

Every heroic you do rewards triumph badges. Triumph badges can be spent to get gear. VoA is doable with a relatively modest amount of DPS, and awards more badges and gear. There's more raids out there then just ICC, you should consider trying them. Heroics themselves have varying qualities of gear, check what's available there. Lastly, there's a wide variety of buyable gear available.

Skyborn
04-12-2010, 08:43 AM
You are definitely geared enough to run ICC10/ICC25. As long as you can put out 5k DPS in ICC10 or 7k in ICC25 no one should give you any grief. If you can't pull those numbers than you probably should take a look at how you're managing your abilities / rotation.

That being said you definitely want to find PVE replacements for that PVP gear, all that resilience and stamina is wasted itemization. Either run TOC 25 or just try to get in on ICC 10 runs and pick up ilevel 251 gear.

If you don't go into ICC you can only get 19 frost badges a week (2 a day + Raid Weekly). If you clear the first wing of ICC 10 (pretty easy to do nowadays with the buff) you'll get an extra 8 badges a week (+5 more if you get lucky with the random Deathwhisper / Frost Giant raid quest). If you can pug the first wing of ICC25 in addition to that, you'll get another 8-13 badges. You can get another 4 frost badges per week if you run VOA 10/25 to kill Toravon.

The only way to get the 264 tier gear (sanctified) is from a token that drops off wing bosses (Saurfang, Putricide, Blood-Queen etc) in 25 and use it to upgrade your 251 tier gear you buy from the vendor.

Bashal
04-12-2010, 08:44 AM
I am trying to understand ;0)

...but if I switch these two, am I then going to be better DPS and get into ICC? It just doesn't look so to me.

That's what I'm saying, and that's what people are trying to tell you in the other thread, and they're speaking from personal experience. The reasons behind this were explained, although perhaps not in a way that made sense to you. I'll send you a PM in a bit and try to explain it in better detail.

CatabriOnEarthen
04-12-2010, 08:45 AM
I'm talking about the frost armor pieces, they are 95 and 60 frost each. Unless I'm missing something, you can make 2 frost a day, but one day a week you can make a total of 7. Right?

So the Bloodmage armor would take me about 21 weeks or 4 months to aquire? (Granted, I have one piece, just checking my facts and math.)

THEN I could try to get the Sanctifed Bloodmage stuff, which I don't understand at all.

You are still wearing PvP pants. PvP gear is about survivability for PvP, not dps for PvE. Get the Tier 9 pants, or have some crafted for you. You can change out your chest and bracers for the crafted Merlin's Robe and Bejeweled Wizard's Bracers. Other than that, sling spells at a target dummy, until you know your rotation. Read up on the rotation.

Badges/week without going to ICC: 7x 2/daily= 14; 5 for weekly raid; 2 from Toravon 10 man (VoA) and 2 from Toravon (25 man) = 23 frosties/week

Liltuscany
04-12-2010, 08:46 AM
I do search the AH and have had trouble finding better gear, unless it's a zillion gold. (For example, sandals of consecration) I just do random heroic finder, is that bad? I thought you got more badges that way. Any raids in particular, Martie?

I hate to sound like a total dolt, but what do you mean when you say "try gear progression instead of just looking at the frost badge gear."??

I guess I am trying to find exactly what I should get. I thought if I worked toward everything the cloth vendor in DALA sold, I would be on track. But I thought that about the one up from the Dala portals, and have been told I had been buying the wrong stuff.

I just need a shopping list of what to get and where. Don't laugh, it's how my mind works. I'm trying to train it differently, but when you have kids and spend most of your money at Walmart, it's really a physical thing. ;)

Liltuscany
04-12-2010, 08:49 AM
You are definitely geared enough to run ICC10/ICC25. As long as you can put out 5k DPS in ICC10 or 7k in ICC25 no one should give you any grief. If you can't pull those numbers than you probably should take a look at how you're managing your abilities / rotation.

That being said you definitely want to find PVE replacements for that PVP gear, all that resilience and stamina is wasted itemization. Either run TOC 25 or just try to get in on ICC 10 runs and pick up ilevel 251 gear.

If you don't go into ICC you can only get 19 frost badges a week (2 a day + Raid Weekly). If you clear the first wing of ICC 10 (pretty easy to do nowadays with the buff) you'll get an extra 8 badges a week (+5 more if you get lucky with the random Deathwhisper / Frost Giant raid quest). If you can pug the first wing of ICC25 in addition to that, you'll get another 8-13 badges. You can get another 4 frost badges per week if you run VOA 10/25 to kill Toravon.

The only way to get the 264 tier gear (sanctified) is from a token that drops off wing bosses (Saurfang, Putricide, Blood-Queen etc) in 25 and use it to upgrade your 251 tier gear you buy from the vendor.


PLEASE help :( I know I am being a pita, but I hit those dummies and use all my trinkets and such, have my mirror image out and use food and potions, I still get a DPS of 3,800. I know, I suck, but WHY??? I ask folks about their rotation and it's just arc blast 4 x and then arc barrage.

Liltuscany
04-12-2010, 08:50 AM
Cata....agreed, my only thing to get on my list for sure, asap, is the Khadgar's Leggings Of Conquest. Everything else is frost.

Liltuscany
04-12-2010, 08:51 AM
That's what I'm saying, and that's what people are trying to tell you in the other thread, and they're speaking from personal experience. The reasons behind this were explained, although perhaps not in a way that made sense to you. I'll send you a PM in a bit and try to explain it in better detail.

Thanks, I would appreciate that.

CatabriOnEarthen
04-12-2010, 08:53 AM
PLEASE help :( I know I am being a pita, but I hit those dummies and use all my trinkets and such, have my mirror image out and use food and potions, I still get a DPS of 3,800. I know, I suck, but WHY??? I ask folks about their rotation and it's just arc blast 4 x and then arc barrage.

You don't have full raid buffs. That will significantly help your dps. Change out the purple gems in your gear for pure Runed Cardinal Ruby. +5 SP isn't worth the socket bonus. Read mage threads at EJ, etc.

Skyborn
04-12-2010, 09:14 AM
@ Liltuscany: Unfortunately I don't have a mage so I can't give you specific advice, but maybe someone else who plays an arcane mage will see this thread and give you some pointers. DPS on dummies isn't a great reflection of what you'll do in a raid setting though, so don't be discouraged. Have you run a Trial of the Crusader raid recently? A raid setting with buffs from other players will greatly increase your DPS and give you an idea of what you would pull in ICC. Although now with the 10% buff to damage done in ICC, your numbers will be even higher.

Liltuscany
04-12-2010, 09:21 AM
You don't have full raid buffs. That will significantly help your dps. Change out the purple gems in your gear for pure Runed Cardinal Ruby. +5 SP isn't worth the socket bonus. Read mage threads at EJ, etc.


Done, except pants because I want new pants soon.

Mawini
04-12-2010, 10:17 AM
90% of the dps casters I see that say they do the proper rotation but still get poor dps simply suck at spamming their abilities. It makes sense, since you WOULD have to be a dolt to hose the arcane mage rotation in any other way. I've seen players with same class/spec and MORE haste than another use 30% fewer spells over the course of the same boss fight. Guess what that does to dps? When I was a warlock back in pre-3.0 BC, I used quartz to attain 2600 dps frequently. Give it a try. I used to hit each action 3 times right as quartz approached the red line.

Mawini
04-12-2010, 10:23 AM
Wait... you said arcane barrage? Are you really doing that? You should be using AM when MISSILE barrage procs. Arcane barrage is for tossing on the move only, unless something massive has changed in mage land.

Raysere
04-12-2010, 10:24 AM
90% of the dps casters I see that say they do the proper rotation but still get poor dps simply suck at spamming their abilities. It makes sense, since you WOULD have to be a dolt to hose the arcane mage rotation in any other way. I've seen players with same class/spec and MORE haste than another use 30% fewer spells over the course of the same boss fight. Guess what that does to dps? When I was a warlock back in pre-3.0 BC, I used quartz to attain 2600 dps frequently. Give it a try. I used to hit each action 3 times right as quartz approached the red line.

This is a great YouTube video narrated by one of the top Hunters in the world that visually illustrates what Mawini is talking about. You can apply it to any class in the game, and it really is good advice. It's not always about the quality of your tools, but how you use them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgDjG_0ecTI

Tinytankz
04-12-2010, 11:16 AM
3.8k dps on a dummy is GOOD. You have no boomchicken and kings and might and god knows what insane lock buffs your missing 3.8k on a damn dummy translates to around 5k in a 10 man ( i dont do 25's i pug em but my knowledge is limited)

Liltuscany
04-12-2010, 12:24 PM
Have you run a Trial of the Crusader raid recently? A raid setting with buffs from other players will greatly increase your DPS and give you an idea of what you would pull in ICC. Although now with the 10% buff to damage done in ICC, your numbers will be even higher.

So if I pull higher numbers in TOC or whatever, rather than on dummies, that is my DPS? I thought it had to be what you could do on your own, not counting other players' buffs.

Also, when folks say that my dps is too low, where are they pulling that info? Wowarmory??

Skyborn
04-12-2010, 12:29 PM
When people ask me what my DPS is I tell them what I do in a raid (25 or 10 depending on what we're talking about) on a non-gimmicky fight (IE. Not a fight like Twin Valkyries which gives players huge damage buffs).

I get my DPS numbers from running an addon called Recount. It tracks everything: damage done, healing done, damage taken, deaths, etc. Pretty useful tool for judging how you're doing week to week.

You can download it here: http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/recount.aspx

Unzip it and then put it into your WoW -> Interface -> Addons folder.

Liltuscany
04-12-2010, 12:31 PM
Wait... you said arcane barrage? Are you really doing that? You should be using AM when MISSILE barrage procs. Arcane barrage is for tossing on the move only, unless something massive has changed in mage land.


Huh?? What?? I'm not doing the right one?? When I practice it's Arcane Barrage that keeps my dps up...arc missle seems to only lower it. HELP!!!


3.8k dps on a dummy is GOOD. You have no boomchicken and kings and might and god knows what insane lock buffs your missing 3.8k on a damn dummy translates to around 5k in a 10 man ( i dont do 25's i pug em but my knowledge is limited)

HUH?? Is this right? Because it feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeels right..and sooooooooooooooooooo good!!?? Thoughts? When folks look at my dps in game, where are they looking? Maybe just at my gear? It seems they are 'pulling actual factual numbers' but how?

Liltuscany
04-12-2010, 03:41 PM
I got the GEARSCORE addon and it says my gear score is 5100. That's good, no?

Kazeyonoma
04-12-2010, 04:40 PM
gearscore is stupid, don't use it, for the love of god. it creates false senses of security in people. the reason your GS is so high is because you're rolling in high end pvp gear, which like we've been saying over and over again, is NOT ideal for pve.

Bashal
04-13-2010, 07:08 AM
I got the GEARSCORE addon and it says my gear score is 5100. That's good, no?

The only thing gearscore is good for, is to get a general sense of what level of gear the person has. It can't tell you:

1) If they're wearing the correct gear
2) If they have gemmed, specced, glyphed and enchanted correctly (at least you can't tell from the raw number it gives you)
3) If they are any good at all.

Quinafoi
04-13-2010, 07:45 AM
I think you're missing the point. You're not supposed to be able to level to 80 and start getting the highest tier immediately. While you can get pieces slowly over time like you are originally saying, how you actually are supposed to be getting tier 10 is by raiding in tier 10 content. You have to get up to the point where you are able to enter ICC (mostly tier 9 level gear) and then you can actually earn tier 10 pieces significantly faster. For people that started in ICC all they are doing now is farming emblems and selling Primordial Saronites because they have already purchased everything they needed.

If you run tier 10, you get tier 10 faster. Don't complain about the rate you can gain the highest tier's gear when you can't even go to the highest tier.

You don't gain tier 10 by farming just heroics for 6 months. You gain tier 10 by obtaining tier 9 and raiding tier 10.

There are steps to reaching your goal. It isn't just one big hurdle.

Goros
04-13-2010, 10:28 AM
Ok. Let's start over since a ton of this is my fault.

You can land around 40 frost badges a week this way:

One random heroic each day for 2 badges (7x2) = 14
Complete the weekly raid (1x5) = 5
Run VoA (wintergrasp bosses) in 10 AND 25 man mode (2x2) = 4 (plus the chance that your bloodmage gloves or pants drop - Bloodmage drops in VoA10, Sanctified Bloodmage drops in VoA25)
Pug a 25 man and 10 man ICC, assuming you only down the first wing (4x2 + 4x2) = 16 (plus the chance for gear you can use)
Do the weekly in the 10 man ICC (assuming the group isn't fail) (1x5) = 5

This nets you between 39 and 44 badges depending on the weekly quest in ICC and if your group can clear it or not.

Your priority list as an Arcane Mage for frost gear is this: Bloodmage Hood (95 Frost), Bloodmage Shoulderpads (60 Frost), Meteor Chaser's Raiment (95 Frost), Circle of Ossus (60 frost, assuming you don't get the Crushing Coldwrath Belt off Marrowgar 25), Bloodmage Gloves (60 Frost, assuming you don't get them off VoA 10/25), Bloodmage Leggings (95 Frost, assuming you don't get them off VoA 10/25). I put the gloves and legs at the end assuming that you don't want to buy them and just want them to drop off the ice boss in VoA.

You need to fill in your other gear from Triumph Badge gear and drops in heroics. Get Seethe (weapon) from HPoS, Shriveled Heart (offhand) from HHoR, Brimstone Igniter (wand, 25 Triumph), Talisman of Resurgence (trinket, 50 Triumph), Arcane Loops of Anger (Neck) from HFoS, Band of the Invoker (ring, 35 Triumph), Khadgar's Hood, Shoulders, Leggings, Gloves of Conquest (T9 - 232 set pieces) for whatever you don't have T10 of. Have someone make you a Merlin's Robe (Tailoring) for your chest (Ilvl 245) until you can afford the Frost chest, and have some Bejeweled Wizards Bracers made (Tailoring) for your wrists (Ilvl 245). There are a set of caster boots in one of the new heroics, but when you can afford it get Sandals of Consecration made.

As for the Sanctified gear, you have to be in a 25 man group that kills Saurfang, Putricide, Sindragosa, or Lanathel and they drop a token called the Vanquisher's Mark of Sanctification. If you win that item, you can go to the vendor and upgrade one of your existing bloodmage pieces to a sanctified bloodmage piece.

Go to http://www.wow-heroes.com and enter your server and your name into it. It will show you what content you should be raiding and highlight your errors, as well as show you armory links to gear upgrades you can get. Gearscore as an addon is pretty fail.

Tulley
04-13-2010, 11:50 AM
Huh?? What?? I'm not doing the right one?? When I practice it's Arcane Barrage that keeps my dps up...arc missle seems to only lower it. HELP!!!



HUH?? Is this right? Because it feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeels right..and sooooooooooooooooooo good!!?? Thoughts? When folks look at my dps in game, where are they looking? Maybe just at my gear? It seems they are 'pulling actual factual numbers' but how?



Hi liltuscany,
A couple of things, I wanted to give you kudos for sticking with it trying to better yourself. Visiting this site is a start and the prgress of this thread are proof of that. I have been following this thread for a couple of days now.
Don't take everything that I say as verbatim or gospel.

After reading your post above I am unclear if you are using the correct rotation.

This is what I do
Arcane blast 4 times, and then utilize my missile barrage proc and then cast arcane missiles.

It sounds like you are doing arcane blast 4 times and then casting Arcane barrage, is this correct? If so you will want to change that out.

You have a choice of two different methods, I dont know which is better I mix it up a little bit myself. but here they are.

Cast Arcane Blast 4 times and then cast your arcane missiles (With proc)
or
Cast arcane blast until you get the proc and then cast arcane missiles.

I have not found a definitive as to which is better myself.

I use two mods for this Power auras to let me know when I have arcane blast debuff x4 and missile barrage sound
http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info11665-MissileBarrageSound.html
http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info8579-PowerAurasClassic.html

You can do it with just power aura's since they can make a sound as well, I just really like the missile barrage sound is why I continue to use it.

Tulley
04-13-2010, 11:50 AM
Huh?? What?? I'm not doing the right one?? When I practice it's Arcane Barrage that keeps my dps up...arc missle seems to only lower it. HELP!!!



HUH?? Is this right? Because it feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeels right..and sooooooooooooooooooo good!!?? Thoughts? When folks look at my dps in game, where are they looking? Maybe just at my gear? It seems they are 'pulling actual factual numbers' but how?



Hi liltuscany,
A couple of things, I wanted to give you kudos for sticking with it trying to better yourself. Visiting this site is a start and the prgress of this thread are proof of that. I have been following this thread for a couple of days now.
Don't take everything that I say as verbatim or gospel.

After reading your post above I am unclear if you are using the correct rotation.

This is what I do
Arcane blast 4 times, and then utilize my missile barrage proc and then cast arcane missiles.

It sounds like you are doing arcane blast 4 times and then casting Arcane barrage, is this correct? If so you will want to change that out.

You have a choice of two different methods, I dont know which is better I mix it up a little bit myself. but here they are.

Cast Arcane Blast 4 times and then cast your arcane missiles (With proc)
or
Cast arcane blast until you get the proc and then cast arcane missiles.

I have not found a definitive as to which is better myself.

I use two mods for this Power auras to let me know when I have arcane blast debuff x4 and missile barrage sound
http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info11665-MissileBarrageSound.html
http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info8579-PowerAurasClassic.html

You can do it with just power aura's since they can make a sound as well, I just really like the missile barrage sound is why I continue to use it.