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mccready
04-12-2010, 12:23 AM
Allright guys, thanks for having a look. Please don't just go posting about a search function or FAQ's. If you want to help - which is highly appreciated - read the entire post.

Short version: I suck, Heres my armory (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Eredar&cn=Mccready), help me stop sucking!

Long version:

Introduction
I'm floating aroung 251ilvl average, ~5600+GS. In my 10 player ICC raid, I'm expected to wtfpwnz the house. However, besides AoE, I'm almost always at the bottom of DPS. In general, I will never brake the 7k DPS barrier in a single target, no gimmick fight - that encludes the 10% ICC buff. What both my mates and I expect is something around around at least 7,000 DPS on a single target.

Theory
After speccing back and forth from Fury to Arms and spending long time on the dummy to nail down my rotation - all without result - I started toying with RAWR. What I found there was quite shocking. The tool basically says that my horrid DPS is fine. My projected DPS with selbuffs (AP shout + sunder) is 5180, real DPS matches nearly 1:1. (In fact i was about 15 DPS above projected, probably due to variance and fight lenght. I spend about 10 minutes on the dummy)

Noob! Spec Fury! I could, my offhand would be Oxheart. However, the projected DPS is like ~5 (with and without buffs - see folowing!) damage-points per second higher, since I hate the fury playstyle I rather pass and stick to arms.

Right now, I'm trusting that RAWR gives out correct values. It's been updated yesterday, and its constantly used at elitistjerks. I have not used Landsouls char yet since its a royal pain to use (for me), however, I have no reason to believe that RAWR is broken.

On the other hand, my little bro's cat with sub 232 gear allready beats my projeceted DPS in Rawr. Thats where I start wondering what the f**** I am doing wrong...

Gear adjustments


I know I'm not fully Arp-capped. However, adjusting for that in RAWR (Deathbringer's choice e.g.) does not brake some kind of magical barrier. Going the last few meters from 92,98% to 100% results in aditional ~150 DPS. (included - the superior stats from the item that is being replaced!)



My hit rating is only 7,84%, however, a 10 minute fight results into ~5 misses. Every possible adjustmend to close the 0,16% gap only hurts my DPS.



I know the needler proc is worthless now. It's still the best trinket I have avalible.
I ran the optimizer and socketed to 20 str / 10 crit10str without effect.

Buffs

First and foremost, my raidbuffs are horrid. I have to apply sunder myself. I get kings, 10% AP and Horn of the Winter. What I'm missing is a critt aura and a minor armor debuff, a haste totem and everything else I forgot.

Puting those buffs into RAWR results into rougly 6k DPS. Again, this is about what I see in my raids. If i should do 6,6k DPS with ICCbuff, I do about 6200-6500. That accounts for running, messing up and other flaws in real DPS situation.

My projeceted DPS won't skyrocket when I switch to fury, including buffs.

WTF?



Where is my missing DPS? Every caster with 5k Gearscore wipes the floor with me!
Is RAWR wrong? If so, my rotations probably sucks (not possible for Arms though, this one I got nailed)
What am I missing?

Help will be greatly appreciated!

mccready
04-12-2010, 01:20 AM
Edit:

I keep reading in guides that MS and overpower is to be used during Execute Range. However, Execute is by far my biggest hit! Whats the reason behind using MS and Overpower during Execute?

ps.: you play Poker? I will ship 5$ to the person who provides me with new insight (only on FTP though)

woodyman
04-12-2010, 03:11 AM
Thats because you want the CD on MS and overpower to be renewing as soon as is physically possible and you can still use the execute on the NEXT Global cool down
MS is always the priority

Also with 81% passive arp you should not be using an Arp proc trink
u should either gem strength so that the ARP proc takes you over 100% on proc
or you should replcase nes with anything that is not an arp proc.
even mirror of truth would actually help you more than NES in your current set up

herkuml war token would be another option...i know they say haste is a waste but more swings = more rage and more procs

Main point here is that having high passive arp and arp proc trink is a waste of time

mccready
04-12-2010, 03:25 AM
Thats because you want the CD on MS and overpower to be renewing as soon as is physically possible and you can still use the execute on the NEXT Global cool down
MS is always the priority

Also with 81% passive arp you should not be using an Arp proc trink
u should either gem strength so that the ARP proc takes you over 100% on proc
or you should replcase nes with anything that is not an arp proc.
even mirror of truth would actually help you more than NES in your current set up

herkuml war token would be another option...i know they say haste is a waste but more swings = more rage and more procs

Main point here is that having high passive arp and arp proc trink is a waste of time

Like I said, help is much appreciated, but please read the entire post. I put effort into describing the problem as accurately as possible, so you might just take the time and read the few lines carefuly.

In reply to the qouted post:



I do know how Arpen works. I stated above that the trinket proc is useless, but I also said that its the best gear avalible. Yes, NES is still better than Mirror of truth. Ask RAWR.Also, when I replace any trinket with the best trinket avalible (Deathbringers Will), I gain about 150DPS.
Regarding execute range: My execute is the biggest hit. During execute range I can spam it nonstop. I'm still looking for a reason to use MS or OP in the said execute range.

Dragaan
04-12-2010, 04:33 AM
I have a few things to say:

First, you would do more damage as fury. Fury is ahead of arms with your level of gear, and it's a lot easier to keep a solid rotation on movement-intensive fights (most of the important icc fights).

Second, your NES is not the best trinket available. You would do more dmg with mirror of truth, greatness (especially), meteorite whetstone, or almost any other epic trinket. The wasted proc on the NES is a big dps hit.

Third, try using a 55/8/8 arms spec instead of your current one. You'd lose the reduced rage execute, but you'd softcap yourself with the 1 point in weapon mastery, and you'd gain 15% crit on cleave/heroicstrike/thunderclap (tc should be decent on large aoe packs now). 15% crit on HS is pretty huge on some fights. Imagine getting mark on saurfang and spamming heroic strike the entire fight with a 70% crit rate. :p

Fourth, I haven't checked the spreadsheet for this, but I think you'd do more dps if you kept the t9 shoulders over the t10 ones you have on. It would give you the 6% arp bonus, which means you could regem a few arp gems into strength. If you have a trophy or already have the 245 ones, I'd suggest you do this until you can get 4p t10 (and probably at least 2 of those should be 264). Not only would you get the 2p bonus and be able to swap out some of the arp gems, I see quite a few nice socket bonuses that you'd get by doing this as well. All but positive this would be a nice dps gain.


About using overpower/ms instead of execute. I'm not too sure why MS is better than execute sub-20% (might just depend on your weapon), but overpower is almost a guaranteed crit. That means you do more deep wounds damage.

mccready
04-12-2010, 05:01 AM
Thanks for the reply. You just editet while I was qouting, I have to redo it ^^


I have a few things to say:

First, you would do more damage as fury. Fury is ahead of arms with your level of gear, and it's a lot easier to keep a solid rotation on movement-intensive fights (most of the important icc fights).

Thats what I keep hearing over and over again. The problem is: The theoretical Dmg output as fury is just as shitty. Theres just no difference. If anyone has a reason to believe that RAWR is totally of Fury Id like to know. (in fact I'm doing less damage as fury on the dummy. Thats because I didnt nail the rotation to a 100% yet)

Secondly: I think that Arms is way easier than Fury. Fury only got those 3 buttons, sure, but they need to be pressed in a very definite order. Only minor flaws like a 0,5s delay on an abilty really cripples the rotation. Arms is much more forgiving in that aspect. Also, maintaining a 5 Sunder stack as Fury is a hell of a lot more complicated for Fury


Second, your NES is not the best trinket available. You would do more dmg with mirror of truth, greatness (especially), meteorite whetstone, or almost any other epic trinket. The wasted proc on the NES is a big dps hit.


Like I said, I'm aware of the trinket issue. Of course there are better trinkets avalible in the game, but that doesnt mean that I can use them ;) With avalible I mean 'can be used right now'. Options for that would be Mirror and Greatness. Mirror is worse, Greatness offers such a small DPS boost that I'm not willing to spend 4k on it. Like i statet above, the kick-ass trinket Deathbringers yields a total of 150 unbuffed DPS. Again, I'm relying of RAWR information here.



Third, try using a 55/8/8 arms spec instead of your current one. You'd lose the reduced rage execute, but you'd softcap yourself with the 1 point in weapon mastery, and you'd gain 15% crit on cleave/heroicstrike/thunderclap (tc should be decent on large aoe packs now). 15% crit on HS is pretty huge on some fights. Imagine getting mark on saurfang and spamming heroic strike the entire fight with a 70% crit rate. :p


I'll switch to incite with more base critt. Right now its a DPS loss for me.



Fourth, I haven't checked the spreadsheet for this, but I think you'd do more dps if you kept the t9 shoulders over the t10 ones you have on. It would give you the 6% arp bonus, which means you could regem a few arp gems into strength. If you have a trophy or already have the 245 ones, I'd suggest you do this until you can get 4p t10 (and probably at least 2 of those should be 264). Not only would you get the 2p bonus and be able to swap out some of the arp gems, I see quite a few nice socket bonuses that you'd get by doing this as well. All but positive this would be a nice dps gain.


Yeah, the nasty 2T9 bonus. In fact I'm only a couple of badges away to 4T10, which will hardcap me on ARP again. Youre right about the re-gemming, I probably could squeeze out some DPS points there.



About using overpower/ms instead of execute. I'm not too sure why MS is better than execute sub-20% (might just depend on your weapon), but overpower is almost a guaranteed crit. That means you do more deep wounds damage.

Bingo. Thats just what I was missing!

What I'm still looking for though is a giant DPS hole. I'm starting to believe the RAWR data is utter bogus and that I just suck at playing fury...

Dragaan
04-12-2010, 05:11 AM
I'm sorry, but greatness would be WAY better than NES for you. I don't know what ur rawr is showing or if you made any mistakes there, but greatness is hands down much better than NES with a wasted arp proc. Also, if you think keeping up sunders as fury is harder than doing it as arms, you're doing something wrong as arms. Arms warriors are "gcd-capped", meaning you are constantly using some ability every global cooldown. This is absolutely not the case for fury, and this is why a fury warrior will always be tasked with keeping sunders up over an arms warrior. Instead of just going by what your rawr/sheet tells you, I think you should go and put some of these suggestions into practice and see what happens. I have a feeling you might be pleasantly surprised.