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Liltuscany
04-08-2010, 10:56 AM
I am new to RECOUNT and got to where it shows my average dps. It says I do 2500...wth? How do I raise it? I was told one thing, then another. I read all over the web, ask lots of good mages...everyone has HUGE change suggestions.

I am arcane. Is that still the best?

I want to get into ICC, in this lifetime. I keep getting told my DPS is too low. Unless I use mirror image..it's average is 2500. I have Frost gear and the rest is mostly best battleground gear.

I've been told to get rid of everything that has resiliance because it actually hurts me. :( Really?

I've been told to let my health go down because I need to focus on just spellpower (when getting armor) because I'm to count on healers.

Help, this is so confusing and believe me, I'm trying.
LilTuscany on Nazgrel

Kazeyonoma
04-08-2010, 11:12 AM
first off, pvp gear is bad for pve because it has "wasted" stats. namely resilience and stamina. You don't need these ina pve environment, You as a dps, should not be getting hit, so more hp and crit reduction is useless. If you get hit in pve, u'll likely die anyways. So you're better off getting pve pieces that don't waste stat points on resil/stamina and instead give you higher spell power, crit, haste, intellect.

the rotation for arcane i believe is rather straight forward:

arcane blast x 4, missile barrage (rinse repeat over and over and over again). time you cooldowns with important buffs like bloodlust, use mirror images in burst situations (zomg add needs to die now) or to wipe threat? Get as much spell power as possible, reach the pve spell hit cap (17% - talents/debuffs), and i think at some point haste is also an important stat to gain. If you link an armory I can move this thread to the HALP! forum where you can get personalized advice from our community.

Quinafoi
04-08-2010, 11:45 AM
I am new to RECOUNT and got to where it shows my average dps. It says I do 2500...wth? How do I raise it? I was told one thing, then another. I read all over the web, ask lots of good mages...everyone has HUGE change suggestions.

I am arcane. Is that still the best?

I want to get into ICC, in this lifetime. I keep getting told my DPS is too low. Unless I use mirror image..it's average is 2500. I have Frost gear and the rest is mostly best battleground gear.

I've been told to get rid of everything that has resiliance because it actually hurts me. :( Really?

I've been told to let my health go down because I need to focus on just spellpower (when getting armor) because I'm to count on healers.

Help, this is so confusing and believe me, I'm trying.
LilTuscany on Nazgrel

First off, a link to your armory makes it easier than making it so people have to look you up themselves.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Nazgrel&cn=Liltuscany

You are gemming and enchanting for stamina. While it may be useful in PvP, it doesn't help your DPS at all. Resilience only really benefits you in PvP, it has no effect at all on your DPS. As such it is a wasted stat if you're trying to maximize DPS.

Head
Your helm has no enchant. Should be using one from Kirin Tor faction.
You are not using the optimal caster DPS meta gem, Chaotic Skyflare Diamond. Instead you are using a PvP meta. You are also not even meeting the meta gem requirements to activate the bonus of your current gem.
You have have a pure stamina gem in a blue socket when it would be better suited a Purified Dreadstone.

Neck
You are using a PvP neck piece, stat points wasted on Resilience and Stamina. A PvE piece of equivalent item level would be more benefitial to DPS.

Shoulder
You are using a PvP shoulder enchant instead of a PvE shoulder enchant from the Sons of Hodir.

Chest
You are using a bonus health enchant instead of increase to all stats enchant. The optimal enchant for a mage would be +10 to all stats. You are not a tank.

Belt
Nightmare tear is ok, but since this is a prismatic socket (color irrelevant) it should be your highest dps benefitial cut which will for an Arcane Mage be either haste or spellpower.

Legs
This is a PvP piece of gear, a PvE piece of equivalent level would be better itemized for DPS.
You shouldn't gem for raw stamina really even in a PvP piece. Instead you should use a hybrid cut like Glowing Dreadstone (stamina spellpower) or Forceful Eye of Zul (stamina haste) depending which will benefit your PvP DPS more.
The enchant isn't optimal either. For a PvP caster piece it should be Sapphire Spellthread (50 spellpower, 30 stamina). Briliant Spellthread should be used on PvE pieces.

Feet
Fine here. Tuskarr's is appropriate in any context.

Wrist
Again a PvP piece. If you had a PvE piece of equivalent level it would result in higher DPS.

Gloves
No enchant. Optimal caster DPS enchant on gloves would be 28 spellpower. You however have Engineering so in your case it would be Hyperspeed Accellerators.

Rings
First ring is a PvP ring again. A PvE ring of equivalent level would net you higher DPS. It is however enchanted fine.
Second ring is a strength DPS ring. While you have the spellpower enchant on it, this ring itself gives you no benefit at all other than stamina (which again, has no effect on DPS).

Trinkets
One of the trinkets is a PvP one. While in the case of trinkets, same level does not mean better, there are quite a few PvE options that would net you higher overall DPS. Mainly because the use effect of the trinket is for survivability, not DPS. You want both effects of a trinket to improve DPS to be ideal.
The second trinket since both effects buff DPS stats is alright, of course there are better options out there.

Cloak
Using a PvP cloak. If you were using an equivalent PvE cloak you wouldn't have those wasted stat points on resilience and net you higher DPS. The enchant is fine however.

Weapon
Fine. Correct enchant.
Wand is fine as well.



Bottom line if you're looking to maximize DPS, your priorities are in the wrong place. You're current priorities appear to be PvP survivability.
PvP Priorities <> PvE Priorities

In PvE, survivability is a back burner thought for anyone other than a tank. You don't go out of your way for extra survivability other than perhaps using resistence gear on magic based encounters. Gems and enchants focus solely on your primary duty. In PvP however you have other concerns, not only do you have to kill the other person, but you have to survive it as well. Stamina and Resilience help with that by making it so it is harder for other players to kill you.

Liltuscany
04-08-2010, 12:24 PM
Thank you sooo much, this is really helpful!
Okay, that is pretty much my rotation, so I'm good there.

Now, where do I get the PVE gear? I was working on Frost gear. I'm willing to put the time and effort into all new gear (sigh) to getting higher DPS..just where do I focus to find the BEST gear possible?

I do random heroic dungeons and the gear looks well below mine, is that wrong?

Liltuscany
04-08-2010, 12:28 PM
**Or do I stick with my armor and just get new enchants and gems?
This gear took a long time to pull together, and I assume new gear would not be something I can just BUY in AH..

Bashal
04-08-2010, 12:34 PM
T9 PvE gear sets can be purchased (for mages) from the Cloth Armor vendor in Dalaran. If you bought that PvP gear in Dal, the cloth armor vendor isn't very far away (in a little shop. there's a couple vendors with different tiers of gear. You want the one that sells set pieces for Triumph Emblems).

Most of the heroics were originally designed back when the highest item level gear you could possibly get was ilvl 226, and that was only a few pieces. Most gear available at the time was ilvl 200 and 213. That's why the gear that drops looks so inferior to the vendor gear.

The ICC 5-man heroics drop ilvl 232 gear, which is the best you'll find in a 5-man (Forge of Souls, Pit of Saron, Halls of Reflection).

Quinafoi
04-08-2010, 12:34 PM
That's a problem with having PvP gear that is higher in item level than your PvE gear. Basically you bought a piece here or there with honor and got a lucky drop out of VoA perhaps, but those pieces are well beyond your current level of progression. You should be running heroics and tier 8 level content at your current progression level, but buy and win tier 10 equivalent PvP gear. Your PvP gear looks better because it is several tiers higher than PvE gear options you have. However, you are no where near prepared to actually be raiding in tier 10.

Your first bet will be to grind heroics and buy mostly the tier 9 pieces in order to fill in gear gaps. Once you have those you can probably start running ToC25 and ICC10 to get either upgraded tier 9 pieces while working on your tier 10 as well.

Bashal
04-08-2010, 12:35 PM
**Or do I stick with my armor and just get new enchants and gems?
This gear took a long time to pull together, and I assume new gear would not be something I can just BUY in AH..

Grind out those triumph emblems doing heroics and just buy the PvE gear. Don't bother re-gemming and re-enchanting the PvP gear.

Liltuscany
04-08-2010, 12:44 PM
That's a problem with having PvP gear that is higher in item level than your PvE gear. Basically you bought a piece here or there with honor and got a lucky drop out of VoA perhaps, but those pieces are well beyond your current level of progression. You should be running heroics and tier 8 level content at your current progression level, but buy and win tier 10 equivalent PvP gear. Your PvP gear looks better because it is several tiers higher than PvE gear options you have. However, you are no where near prepared to actually be raiding in tier 10.

Your first bet will be to grind heroics and buy mostly the tier 9 pieces in order to fill in gear gaps. Once you have those you can probably start running ToC25 and ICC10 to get either upgraded tier 9 pieces while working on your tier 10 as well.


Okay, I like this, after reading it about seven times (ADD here) I finally understand it. :P Except for what is probably the most obvious: when you say I should be getting 'tier 9 pieces' what are they? Where do I get them? Nothing as far as vendors or drops says "Tier 9" so hopefully the answer is not tooootally obvious.

Also, will I ever need this gear according to this? Is ANY of it 'keepable' as far as enchanting and gemming right now?

*And for legs you put I should get glowing dreadstone (12 spell power and 12 stamina) or foreceful eye of zul (10 haste and 15 stam) instead of my current which is (23 spell AND 12 spell and 10 spirit). Or was this before I made changes today to 2 gems?

Petninja
04-08-2010, 12:55 PM
To be honest, a lot of that pvp gear looks to be 264 iLevel. Even though it's obviously inferior to the PvE counterparts for PvE if it's got spell power and haste it's probably not really *that* bad for starting out. The biggest upgrade you're going to gear the easiest is the caster haste trinket from regular ToC 5 man. Abyssal Rune I think it's called. For arcane it's great. The intellect trinket with the on use spell power from emblems will be your other trinket.

The rotation is basically ABx4 -> AM. Try to align all your cooldowns together (stack them), and if you can find out when heroism is going to be popped work them around that. Most people seem to just make a macro with all their cooldowns on it and press it just when combat starts and then pop them when they come off CD again.

Haste and spell power are your most important stats, and even though it's a pretty easy rotation to do the real mastery is in cooldown usage and resource management.


Oh heavens, you have an expertise/strength ring on your. You can find upgrades for that in Karazhan... GET RID OF EET!

Bashal
04-08-2010, 12:58 PM
T7 = ilvl 200/213
T8 = ilvl 219/226
T9 = ilvl 232/245/258
T10 = ilvl 251/264+

When we talk about tier pieces, we usually mean the items that give set bonuses (like your pvp gear), but don't have resilience on them, and the bonuses are PvE-oriented. It is also used to refer generically to PvE non-set items of equivalent item level (that also don't have resil on them).

The reason why PvP gear is bad for PvE is because of something called item budget. A piece of gear has so many "stat points" to work with, based on its item level. PvP gear sinks more stat points into stamina, which does nothing for your dps, making them wasted points (some stamina is nice for survivability against splash damage, but there's less on PvE gear). PvP gear also puts stat points into resilience, which means that's fewer stat points for PvE-type stats like crit, spell power, haste, int, spirit and so on.

This is why, with all this high item level PvP gear you have on, your DPS is so low. You can actually do far more sustained DPS with lower ilvl PvE gear.

Petninja
04-08-2010, 01:05 PM
Okay, I like this, after reading it about seven times (ADD here) I finally understand it. :P Except for what is probably the most obvious: when you say I should be getting 'tier 9 pieces' what are they? Where do I get them? Nothing as far as vendors or drops says "Tier 9" so hopefully the answer is not tooootally obvious.

Also, will I ever need this gear according to this? Is ANY of it 'keepable' as far as enchanting and gemming right now?

*And for legs you put I should get glowing dreadstone (12 spell power and 12 stamina) or foreceful eye of zul (10 haste and 15 stam) instead of my current which is (23 spell AND 12 spell and 10 spirit). Or was this before I made changes today to 2 gems?

You're going to gem full spell power in red slots, spell power/haste in yellows, and spell power/spirit in blues *if* the socket bonus is good. Otherwise you'd gem spell power in blues. Stamina is never good for PvE mages, the same goes for spell penetration.

Petninja
04-08-2010, 01:14 PM
Lastly, make sure you're using your engineering enchants on your gloves. Not the rocket, the on use Haste one. Put that right in your cooldown macro. I can't stress enough how important proper cooldown usage is. If you're getting low numbers on a target dummy and don't use cooldowns you now know why.

Kazeyonoma
04-08-2010, 01:20 PM
Moved to HALP forum.

Liltuscany
04-08-2010, 01:26 PM
:::whines::: But I don't wanna be move to the halp forum...wahhhh

Kidding. I need halp.

Zyffyr
04-08-2010, 03:38 PM
For clarity, the T9 mage items are named "Sunstrider's (item) of Conquest". The 'of conquest' part changes with the better versions, but the stuff you will be able to buy with Triumphs is just the bottom version.

http://www.wowhead.com/itemset=844

Next up, your talent spec.

Magic Absorption - These two points are essentially wasted in PvE. The 80 points of resist are OK in fights with lots of resistable AE going on, but withthe nature of raid healing, the fact that *you* took a little less damage won't mean a thing. Much raid healing is multi-target, so you are going to get healed just as much either way. The mana regain portion of the ability happens so rarely as to effectively not exist.

Better options for where to dump those 2 points (in order of position of the tree, not order of usefulness)
Arcane Stability - you will be taking some damage, so you will lose some cast time here and there. Putting those point here will further reduce that and therefore prevent some DPS loss.
Magic Attunement - extra range on your nukes gives you more positioning options. Not huge, but still more usefull than Magic Absorption.
Incanter's Absorption - not nearly huge as it once was, but if you are using Frost Ward/Fire Ward/Mana Shield anyway you might as well get some extra damage out of it.

On to your current gearing.
Tabbard - At least while you are running instances, put on a Kirin Tor. You need to get that rep up to Revered ASAP.

Head - Meta is now correct. The Spell Pen gem, on the other hand, is wasted. SPen is purely a PvP stat.

Hands - now exactly as it should be.

Belt - as mentioned, Tear is OK but non-optimal. If you are going to use a Tear, it really should be stuck in some Blue socket where you are looking to activate a bonus. Even then, a purifed dreadstone is a better choice.

That STR ring - there are several decent caster rings that drop in Heroics. Or, there is a decent one from getting Exalted with Argent Crusade. Or, Jewelcrafters can make a good one. Beyond those you are looking at Raid rewards, spending tons of cash on Kirin Tor rings, or buying the caster ring with Triumphs (you could also buy the Healer ring somewhere down the line if nothing better shows up after you have everything else you need/want from Triumphs).

The Battlemaster's trinket - the easiest upgrade for that slot would be to run ToC (normal mode), and hope for an Abyssal Rune to drop. Despite being only an iLevel200 trinket, it is still one of the best nuker trinkets around.


Just to make things clear, your Stat priorities for future gear/gem/enchant choices should be as follows :
1-enough hit to remain capped. you are already there, just make sure you don't drop very far below. It is rare for it to become an issue, just be aware of it.
2-Spell Power
3-Haste
4-Crit - don't seek it, but don't ignore it either.

Nothing else is really worth worrying about.

The only socket bonuses worth considering are +Spellpower. Don't bother trying to go for +Crit, +Haste, etc. The Spell Power loss from chasing those will generally outweigh the value of the bonus. Not that you currently have any gear with such bonuses, but for future reference. If you do have a good +SP bonus and it needs a Blue gem, use the Purified Dreadstone (12 SPower, 10 Spirit) - you ate least get some crit off the spirit.

Liltuscany
04-08-2010, 04:41 PM
I have 59 frost right now. Should I start switching out my frost points for triumph? More importantly, are you guys sure? Should I switch all my 'frost gear" to triumph? Or just gem and enchant the stuff I have?

I'm not NOT trying to be rude by saying, are you sure. I just have had so many folks give me advice but yours makes a weird sense to me. (:::grin:::) The whole...switching from what I thought was 'top of the line' (pvp) to what looks like 'lesser' is just scaring me a wee bit.

Liltuscany
04-08-2010, 04:51 PM
Hey, thanks everyone! Thanks zyffer..off to update accordingly.

Kazeyonoma
04-08-2010, 05:00 PM
DO NOT give up your frost emblems, no no no no no no, ideally you want to pick uip t10 pieces if you can, save your frost emblems for those, in the meantime (since you can only get so many of them, use your regular badges to buy t9). Oh god please don't convert your frost emblems into triumph ones... NO NO NO NO NO NO.

Liltuscany
04-08-2010, 05:02 PM
Thank God you mentioned, seriously, thanks Kazey. That just felt wrong lol

Metasynaptic
04-08-2010, 05:48 PM
If you do say... 5 random heroic dungeons in an evening, you'll get 10 triumph emblems, plus one each for each boss, say, 4 per dungeon, another 20. That's 30 emblems, and likely one piece of upgraded Triumph gear.

If you do a lot of random dungeons, you'll end up with more triumph emblems than you know what to do with (save them, or buy gems and sell them if you are hard up for cash).

Never. Ever. Ever. Trade down frosts.

Liltuscany
04-08-2010, 05:56 PM
Is there anything I can buy that will be better and LAST? You mentioned a ring, well the jc's I look at don't seem to have anything better.

I tried to get into a group for Sunstriders gear...but was told my DPS was 3500 too low..basically laughed at me :(

Zyffyr
04-08-2010, 09:49 PM
The JC ring I mentioned is the Titanium Spellshock Ring (note that I meant better than the blue STR ring - it is only *slightly* better than your current caster ring). But really, even a cheap green with caster stats on it is an upgrade to hold you until you can get something good.

Some specific 5 man ring drops that would be of value :
Band of Guile (hCoS, Mal'Ganis)
The Prospector's Prize (hHoS, Crystallus) - Not very good, but better than nothing
Spiteful Signet (regular FoS, Devourer of Souls) - More healer oriented, but not bad
Sinner's Confession (hToC, Paletress)
Signet of Purity (regular ToC, Eadric) Reasonably good, and can potentially be aquired while trying to earn an Abyssal Rune
Annhylde's Ring (hUK, Ingvar)
Ring of the Frenzied Wolvar (hUP, Gortok)
Globule Signet (hVH, Ichoron)
Solitaire of Reflecting Dreams (hVH, Moraag)

(I got bored waiting for certain people to log in....)

Vindicatar
04-08-2010, 10:26 PM
DO NOT give up your frost emblems, no no no no no no, ideally you want to pick uip t10 pieces if you can, save your frost emblems for those, in the meantime (since you can only get so many of them, use your regular badges to buy t9). Oh god please don't convert your frost emblems into triumph ones... NO NO NO NO NO NO.

on that note, i accidently downgraded 20 frosts to triumphs last night....... T_______T <3 love u GM Halsgarrde for restoring them :D

Liltuscany
04-09-2010, 06:13 AM
Awesome Zyffer! (Excuse me if I missplled) Nice specifics I can focus on finding. There doesn't seem to be much I can buy so I just need to keep hitting random heroic?

Goros
04-09-2010, 06:35 AM
I can post you my Mage's armory link, since you are arcane. I pull a sustained 7.5k dps over 3 minutes on the boss target dummy in IF, ungrouped and with only 46sp food & flask.

I'll post a video of the rotation I use, and you'll see in the video I have a bunch of stuff macro'd together to make my life easier while dpsing as arcane.

Here's my link: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Archimonde&cn=Aliiza

Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKFwUz1O8pQ

My gear is gemmed/chanted the best way I can currently according to Rawr

Petninja
04-09-2010, 06:55 AM
The talisman of resurgence (trinket from triumph vendor) is probably one of the biggest upgrades you can hope for, aside from spending triumph emblems on the triumph ring perhaps. I'd say unless you can find a ring drop you might as well get a badge one,
otherwise the int trinket wasn't far from best in slot during ToC's prime.

Liltuscany
04-09-2010, 07:01 AM
Could it be that I'm not figuring out my DPS right? Can anyone tell me the best way to know what it is for sure?

Goros
04-09-2010, 07:14 AM
Watch the video. When you are attacking the target dummy it will track your overall dps in recount as long as you have it set for the damage done meter. If you are only hitting 2.5k dps something is very very wrong.

Liltuscany
04-09-2010, 07:46 AM
I know!!!!!!! :) I just can't seem to figure out what. Several have stated I should get rid of stamina..but you seem to have quite a bit of it on your gear. I am considering changing to a one hand weapon and an off hand to get more dps, but why is your dps SOO SSOO much higher than mine?

I sent you a message btw.

Goros
04-09-2010, 08:17 AM
My gear doesn't have stamina other than incidentals. I don't even look at stam on anything. Its all SP & Haste, with Crit as the 3rd most important. My dps is higher because I have 3k spellpower, 785 haste, and have everything gemmed & enchanted correctly, as well as knowing how to play the toon and what the rotation needs to be, what macros to use, etc. Your gear is just awful. Run lots of randoms & get your 4 set t9, run the 3 new heroics (HFoS, HPoS, HHoR) every day and get the gear you need.

Practice makes perfect.

If not, you can always roll a hunter or ret pally :P

Quinafoi
04-09-2010, 08:25 AM
I know!!!!!!! :) I just can't seem to figure out what. Several have stated I should get rid of stamina..but you seem to have quite a bit of it on your gear. I am considering changing to a one hand weapon and an off hand to get more dps, but why is your dps SOO SSOO much higher than mine?

I sent you a message btw.

Because you are comparing yourself to someone two and a half tiers higher than yourself... And that's partly their fault for saying "look at me, I do 7.5k DPS" and not putting it into perspective that when they were back at the point you are currently at they were probably only doing 4k, maybe less.

The reason you aren't able to do 7.5k DPS is because you're not supposed to be able to. You're not that far along yet.

Petninja
04-09-2010, 11:17 AM
Could it be that I'm not figuring out my DPS right? Can anyone tell me the best way to know what it is for sure?

If you have never reset your recount and you were doing anything before the fight you might have a lot of carry over on the meters. If your recount is set to overall data, rather than last encounter you might be averaging a lot of dailies, farming, pvp, and bad tests into your dps. That will kill it. There's really a lot that could be going wrong, but once it's figured out you should be fine. For clarification, on a target dummy in less than naxx10 gear my mage had little to no trouble with pulling 3k alone. If something is wrong it's not your gear. We'll get it figured out though :P.

Zyffyr
04-09-2010, 02:47 PM
Just pulled your stats into RAWR, and with the stated rotation, self buffed only, it thinks your ideal single target DPS is a bit shy of 3900, not counting any use of burst cooldowns. With the use of such abilities around 4100 (both over the course of a 5 minute run).

Liltuscany
04-09-2010, 03:00 PM
Thanks Zyffyr, something to shoot for (literally) but I'm not able to get to 3k :/ It just has to be me.

Liltuscany
04-09-2010, 03:44 PM
When I'm in these dungeons, what am I 'needing' because everyone expects me to pass on everything because I have frost gear >:(

Goros
04-09-2010, 03:46 PM
It is what it is brother. Pain in the ass grinding away, but if you work at it you can get all 4 pcs of your t9 set in a week, and then get someone to make you the chest & bracers.

Liltuscany
04-09-2010, 04:00 PM
I 'needed' and got kicked >:( What is my plan of attack to get a whole set of t9 in a week???

Liltuscany
04-09-2010, 04:22 PM
So before I start buying the wrong thing (again)..should I buy the BLOODMAGE stuff in cloth vendor / dala..but work toward the Sanctified Bloodmage stuff?

Liltuscany
04-09-2010, 07:02 PM
I broke 3000 :) LOL yay! Okay, it was like 3001 BUT STILL!

Goros
04-10-2010, 05:20 PM
Ok, you clearly have no idea how the tiered sets work (not that it's your fault, they don't explain crap).

So here is what you need to do. The T9 gear doesn't drop. It comes from Triumph badges. You need to buy the head (50) the shoulders (30) the pants (50) and the gloves (30) off the cloth vendor in Dalaran , or from the cloth vendor outside of ToC in Icecrown. They are call Khadgars xxxx of Conquest. You keep running randoms all week until you earn 160 Triumph Badges. You run the 3 newer heroics (HPoS, HFoS, and HHoR) for the various items they drop for a mage - including a nice dagger (seethe), offhand (shriveled heart), 2 different belts, some shoes, a necklace, and some bracers (all ilvl 232).

T10 Gloves and T10 pants drop off of the Ice boss in VoA (when you have wintergrasp). You also can buy them with frost badges - but I recommend you don't. You need to grind the 95 Frost for the T10 (Bloodmage) head, and 60 frost for the Bloodmage shoulderpads. You can't "earn" the santified bloodmage stuff, you have to win the token from 25 man ICC to go from "bloodmage" (t10) to "sanctified bloodmage" (t10.5).

Bashal
04-12-2010, 08:39 AM
To be clear, the vendor that sells the set items you are looking for is located inside a store in Dalaran called The Threads of Fate. Talk to Reuben Lauren (http://www.wowhead.com/npc=35496). If you follow the link, you'll see a list of everything he sells. Scroll down to the "Khadgar's" gear.

That is the stuff you can buy with Triumph emblems. That is the stuff we're talking about when we say "T9 gear".

Buy it. :)

Liltuscany
04-12-2010, 09:13 AM
I know I need the pants. But when I look at my gear and the other triumph gear, I really don't see that it's better than what I have already. I know it's easy to assume it is, but if you compare it to what I personally have on, are you sure I should buy that gear???
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Nazgrel&cn=Liltuscany

Bashal
04-12-2010, 09:45 AM
I'm pretty sure you will come out ahead if you get 4 pieces of T9, and get the 4-piece set bonus. If you replace the legs, and the chest and helm, that would give you the 4-set. You also should get rid of the PvP gear. Replacing the PvP gear may not drastically improve your dps, but it will definitely make it easiser to get into raids; if anyone inspects you and sees PvP gear on, it can cause problems.

I know that would mean replacing the PvE 245 helm, and PvE 232 chest piece. You could instead just replace the legs, and then work on replacing the rest of the PvP gear you have. That would improve things too.

Quinafoi
04-12-2010, 09:52 AM
Well lets compare shall we...

Assuming you would gem your T9 pants with 2 Reckless Ametrines...

http://www.wowhead.com/item=47750
compared to
http://www.wowhead.com/item=41959

-46 stamina (has no value for DPS)
+32 intellect
+16 crit
-12 spellpower (this is the biggest loss, however the gains of the other stats will overtake this substantially)
+20 haste
-80 resilience (again, has no value for DPS)
+54 spirit
+2 piece tier 9 bonus


This would net you a large DPS gain over the PvP piece.

Liltuscany
04-12-2010, 09:58 AM
Well lets compare shall we...

Assuming you would gem your T9 pants with 2 Reckless Ametrines...

http://www.wowhead.com/item=47750
compared to
http://www.wowhead.com/item=41959

-46 stamina (has no value for DPS)
+32 intellect
+16 crit
-12 spellpower (this is the biggest loss, however the gains of the other stats will overtake this substantially)
+20 haste
-80 resilience (again, has no value for DPS)
+54 spirit
+2 piece tier 9 bonus


This would net you a large DPS gain over the PvP piece.


RIght, I said I need the pants. What else though is actually worth changing, if anything?

Liltuscany
04-12-2010, 10:00 AM
Replacing the PvP gear may not drastically improve your dps, but it will definitely make it easiser to get into raids; if anyone inspects you and sees PvP gear on, it can cause problems.


Now this TOTALLY makes sense!!!! But I still hear "Your DPS is a little too low for ICC"

Bashal
04-12-2010, 10:08 AM
Now this TOTALLY makes sense!!!! But I still hear "Your DPS is a little too low for ICC"

It could still also be your rotation. For example, are you making proper use of your cooldowns, like your trinkets, Arcane Empowerment, Icy Veins, and Mirror Images? Those things also make a difference with your DPS, even on a target dummy.

You could also be losing DPS if you are missing your missile barrage procs (which lets you channel arcane missiles faster). It would likely be beneficial if you had a mod to track missile barrage. Some mages hold off on casting arcane missiles, and just spam arcane blast (even after getting 4 stacks) until missile barrage procs. Its a bit of a fine line though, because you can go oom fast that way if you hit a bad streak of no procs.

Liltuscany
04-12-2010, 12:21 PM
Yep. I have really studied everything with the target dummies. I now just cast arcane blast then arcane barrage. If I cast arc missles, even with the proc..it drags my DPS down quickly. I always use my trinkets, even have macros for them. I use all of them as quickly as they proc but I'm still stuck at mid to upper 3k dps. :/

Bashal
04-12-2010, 01:18 PM
If I cast arc missles, even with the proc..it drags my DPS down quickly.

This shouldn't be the case. If you are hitting arcane missiles as soon as missile barrage procs, this could be the problem. You want to wait until you have 4 stacks from Arcane blast first. While stacking Arcane blast, if missile barrage procced somewhere along the way, then hit arcane missiles after you reach the 4th stack of Arcane Blast. If after 4 arcane blasts, you have no missile barrage proc, then you just keep hitting Arcane Blast until it does proc.

If you are running low on mana, you cut your losses, hit arcane barrage*, and start stacking arcane blasts all over again.

* There are a few differing opinions about this, so someone may disagree with me.

Goros
04-12-2010, 01:21 PM
Your T9 2pc and 4pc bonus drastically outweighs anything your pvp gear will give you. Point for point they may be close or a little under what you have, but the stuff the set synergies give you are good.

Extra crit? Ok.

Wait till you get 4pc t10 o.O

Liltuscany
04-12-2010, 03:06 PM
If you are hitting arcane missiles as soon as missile barrage procs, this could be the problem. You want to wait until you have 4 stacks from Arcane blast first. While stacking Arcane blast, if missile barrage procced somewhere along the way, then hit arcane missiles after you reach the 4th stack of Arcane Blast. If after 4 arcane blasts, you have no missile barrage proc, then you just keep hitting Arcane Blast until it does proc.



I always wait for 4 arc blast, then when it procs...missles. Not as good dps (on dummies) as 4 ablast then arc barrage and back to ablast. I have tried it every way and barrage is not as good dps. See, it's me. Wow hates me. lol

Ion
04-12-2010, 03:15 PM
Have you trained (and put on your bars) all levels of arcane missles? It's not even a close comparison...missles are significantly better dps than abarr.

Zyffyr
04-12-2010, 06:32 PM
Comparing the T9 to what you have now...

As already established, the Legs are a clear upgrade.

The Chest is arguably not, unless it leads you to getting the 4pc bonus.

The head is a flat out downgrade. Unless you are also grabbing the chest for the 4pc t9. Then it is arguably worth it. Of course, I doubt you will have 4 pieces of t9 before you can replace one with a t10 so don't worry to much about it.

On the longer term issue of t10s - the set bonuses for mages are massive. Do not even consider not working towards it. That being said, the cloak and belt are generally better choices to spend your Frost emblems on. Also, DO NOT spend Frosts on Gloves/Legs unless you already have 2 of Head/Shoulder/Chest. Until such a time, try to get them from VoA.

Bashal
04-13-2010, 07:03 AM
Have you trained (and put on your bars) all levels of arcane missles? It's not even a close comparison...missles are significantly better dps than abarr.

You'd be suprised how often this comes up, @ Liltuscany.

Even if you're sure you've trained everything to max rank, check again just in case. :)

EressŽa
04-13-2010, 01:28 PM
I can post you my Mage's armory link, since you are arcane. I pull a sustained 7.5k dps over 3 minutes on the boss target dummy in IF, ungrouped and with only 46sp food & flask.

I'll post a video of the rotation I use, and you'll see in the video I have a bunch of stuff macro'd together to make my life easier while dpsing as arcane.

Here's my link: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Archimonde&cn=Aliiza

Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKFwUz1O8pQ

My gear is gemmed/chanted the best way I can currently according to Rawr

Goros that video is great. I have a baby mage I'm working on myself. Are those power aura strings available?

Goros
04-13-2010, 02:45 PM
Send me a PM and tell me what you need from my powerauras and I'll send you whatever you need.

Tulley
04-14-2010, 05:52 AM
I can post you my Mage's armory link, since you are arcane. I pull a sustained 7.5k dps over 3 minutes on the boss target dummy in IF, ungrouped and with only 46sp food & flask.

I'll post a video of the rotation I use, and you'll see in the video I have a bunch of stuff macro'd together to make my life easier while dpsing as arcane.

Here's my link: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Archimonde&cn=Aliiza

Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKFwUz1O8pQ

My gear is gemmed/chanted the best way I can currently according to Rawr

I was curious which items do you have macro'd together for convience? I liked your video a very nice demonstration.

What is the name of the remix cadence?

Goros
04-14-2010, 12:17 PM
I have 5 or 6 different macros that I use.

First, I have /stopcasting macros on my Ice Block, Counterspell, Polymorph, and Spell Steal - so I can pop them in an emergency, even though it breaks my current cast.

Then on my Arcane Blast I have my talisman of resurgence macro'd in so it gets used every time it's up. Since there is always a short period before a boss pull, usually it's back up before the pull.

My Arcane Missiles have my mana gem macro'd in, that way I never, ever miss a use of it in a fight, and it goes off when it can be used and not wasted (after 4 AB's).

The last macro is AP/IV/Pot/Mirror Image. It's a baby heroism/bloodlust in a mage button. Always go Pot, ABx3, PoM+AB, AP/IV/MI, then again when they come back up (and it puts the pot in after the 2min cooldown)