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The Hoof
04-01-2010, 10:34 AM
Ok, Muradin is a pain in my ass.

I'm the away team tank, and it's now a running joke that our top dps ret Paly always dies on this encounter because of the buggy behavior of Muradin.

I'm always the first one over, Muradin aggros. Frequently, as soon as someone else lands on the ship, he'll reset, aggro wipe and then charge whoever last landed on the boat. I save taunt for those occasions, but I've seen it hit and yet have no affect on Muradin. Not always, but often enough to be unpredictable. If that does happen, I'll immediately follow up with heroic throw. I've seen that hit before and again have no affect before.

I can't even describe how infurating it is.

Anyone else running into this problem on 10-man? How has your team solved the problem?

Theotherone
04-01-2010, 10:50 AM
Yeah, I run into that when I jump, too. What I usually do is hold a taunt back for when he resets aggro. I found you can't waste a taunt as he's resetting, you need to to wait for him to run toward your teammate that's on the mage then taunt him. If you're too early, it's a wasted taunt. Also I found I can just face pull him, and if he resets then I have two taunts in waiting.

It's annoying, but after doing the fight a few times you get used to it, and it just becomes normal.

The Hoof
04-01-2010, 11:01 AM
That's mostly what I've been doing, but the issue is often time what happens is that the DPS jumps over and starts running to the mage. By the time Muradin resets, he's right by the DPS and often they get one shotted because I can't react to the fact that he's aggro'd again (can't taunt too early or I'll waste it).

It sounds like I need to get the DPS to jump over, and wait a sec by the edge of the boat for him to reset and re-aggro so I can pick him up.

Theotherone
04-01-2010, 11:07 AM
That's mostly what I've been doing, but the issue is often time what happens is that the DPS jumps over and starts running to the mage. By the time Muradin resets, he's right by the DPS and often they get one shotted because I can't react to the fact that he's aggro'd again (can't taunt too early or I'll waste it).

It sounds like I need to get the DPS to jump over, and wait a sec by the edge of the boat for him to reset and re-aggro so I can pick him up.

That helps, in fact, now that you mention it , he'll usually stay with you if you do that.

Lord Soth
04-01-2010, 11:39 AM
I find he resets if he is not in melee range of you when players begin hitting the mage. I have gotten around the problems associated with this off behavior by engaging him in melee and not pulling to the boat edge until the mage is being engaged. Since it is too early for his buff to make his damage too much, I am usually fine w/o the heals. Once the mage is engaged, I tow Muradin backwards to the edge (I like to take him to a rifleman so I can cleave him, too) and then just pop a def cooldown while I wait for the dps to leap back. I have not had a problem since I started doing this. I never range pull this guy, he is way too unpredictable for that.

Eisen
04-01-2010, 11:41 AM
Move further onto the boat before you pull him.

I've noticed he only bugs out iof I'm standing on the edge of teh boat and pull him (Well OK I'm pulling Saurfang cause I'm a space goat, but it's the same principal)

The Hoof
04-01-2010, 12:01 PM
I find he resets if he is not in melee range of you when players begin hitting the mage. I have gotten around the problems associated with this off behavior by engaging him in melee and not pulling to the boat edge until the mage is being engaged. Since it is too early for his buff to make his damage too much, I am usually fine w/o the heals. Once the mage is engaged, I tow Muradin backwards to the edge (I like to take him to a rifleman so I can cleave him, too) and then just pop a def cooldown while I wait for the dps to leap back. I have not had a problem since I started doing this. I never range pull this guy, he is way too unpredictable for that.

I'll give that a try, it will let me charge him for some rage as well. What's been odd, is that I'll have him in melee range with me, near the edge of the boat (but still on the main platform, not on the rail) and he'll reset. I'll just wait until the DPS is in position before dragging him and see how that goes.

Thanks everyone for the input.

Muffin Man
04-01-2010, 01:19 PM
Move further onto the boat before you pull him.

I've noticed he only bugs out iof I'm standing on the edge of teh boat and pull him (Well OK I'm pulling Saurfang cause I'm a space goat, but it's the same principal)

I've had this experience as well. Healers usually don't jump over for us, so I try to stay on the ledge to stay in range. Sometimes he evade bugs and resets. Like any mob that's reseting you can't do anything to him until he finishes reseting.

Early on I'd heroic throw while I was in the air to get a lead on him. That didn't work so well since it would fire up his aggro table, and he would evade bug and reset.

He's just a finicky boss, but once you get into a pulling routine you'll never have trouble on him again.

The Hoof
04-01-2010, 01:56 PM
Early on I'd heroic throw while I was in the air to get a lead on him. That didn't work so well since it would fire up his aggro table, and he would evade bug and reset.

He's just a finicky boss, but once you get into a pulling routine you'll never have trouble on him again.

Yeah, I used to do that too. And part of my is frustrated that I can't. From my point of view it takes some skill to be able to jump, target, heroic throw all before landing and I'd love to be able to let the DPS get going that much faster. The fact that I have to go walk up to him, poke him in the eye, wait to make sure that he's mad at me, wait for DPS to get going, then confirm he's still mad at me, then walk him back into position, just makes the encounter take longer and in some ways take less skill.

Kazeyonoma
04-01-2010, 02:55 PM
happens to me constantly, the fix? stand next to him when he resets, you'll have proximity aggro, and can just hit him with one of your abilities, then walk back to the edge for your healers.

Loganisis
04-02-2010, 11:28 AM
Not just Muradin - I tank Saurfang and it's the same, I've seen him reset a dozen different ways it seems like. The worst was I've had him get stuck 'stuck' 5 yards from me and just start hurling axes, causing a quick wipe - as he kept throwing when I ran to him and engaged in melee and he continued throwing axes after the battle mage went down. That was pretty frustrating - he took out the entire away team with those axes after we were all back on board.

Other than that, it's become pretty standard, when he run I run to him to melee aggro him (usually well inside the boat), he typically resets after 1-2 seconds, then I taunt him back to the railing when he 'really' aggros.

amity
04-06-2010, 09:54 AM
The reason they do this is because of the how he's pathed to respond to the achievement "I'm on a boat". For those that don't know it you need to tanks on him as he'll used a ranged attack and you simply tank swap to drop the debuff. Unfortuantly it has trouble recognizing if the taunter is going for the normal approach and wanting to be melee hit or if he's going down the achievement path and wants the ranged attack. Simple method is to simply run to him if you're going for the normal way and then drag him back to the edge.

MellvarTank
04-06-2010, 09:57 AM
Yeah, I noticed it on an attempt and now always have my charge up for when he resets. That way I don't lose DPS.

Terpene
04-06-2010, 10:58 PM
The worst was I've had him get stuck 'stuck' 5 yards from me and just start hurling axes, causing a quick wipe - as he kept throwing when I ran to him and engaged in melee and he continued throwing axes after the battle mage went down.

I've had this happend. I've even had him keep throwing while I was back on my own boat. I was able to range him and make him reset by running to the opposite side of the boat.

Xaktharoth
04-06-2010, 11:47 PM
I might recommend, as another possible fix [and keep in mind this is only for the warriors out there], use Vigilance. Before your jump, pop it on the tank who is dealing with the adds. The important function here is not the threat, or the damage reduction, but the refresh on taunt. So if Mauradin wipes aggro on reset, then you will ALWAYS have another one ready to go. It should work like a charm.

PatrikL
04-07-2010, 01:03 AM
Dont think I've ever noticed this behaviour but then again I usually never land first on the boat. Either way with no one attacking him you must have some sort of ranged attack to grab his attention with even if he gets proximity aggroed by one of the dps? As a DK tank I usually use Death grip the second I land to get him start moving (longer range) and then spam Icy Touch to make some firm threat on him. I might have used Dark Command (our taunt) sometime but probably without thinking if I have seen him run in the wrong direction.

Also those few times I have been the first to land I usually have him close to me by the time the dps land.

What I have seen happen a few times though is that he gets stuck by the small wall bewettn him and me and stands there hurling axes. Especially now with the OP threat of Icy Touch its still easy to hold him anyway and probably was before also.

I always tank him by the edge of the ship with my back against my own ship so that the healer doesnt have to jump over and this if you arent doing it already might also be beneficial since he will then be further away from the dps. One important thing to think about though is not to jump back until everyone else has, otherwise you might have dead dps. I position him there and just before the mage is dead, I turn my camera towards my own ship and stand ready with the rocket packs so I can jump the second all the dps are airborne.

Insomnia
04-13-2010, 06:27 AM
Point 1: One important thing to think about though is not to jump back until everyone else has, otherwise you might have dead dps.
Point 2:I position him there and just before the mage is dead, I turn my camera towards my own ship and stand ready with the rocket packs so I can jump the second all the dps are airborne.

Wrong. You should jump the instant melee dps kill off the mage. I'll illustrate why in the 2 point analysis.

Point 1: If your dps is lacking, that extra 5 seconds you wait could kill you (The stacking damage buff with thrown axe=deadly combo if you're napping :P). If you didn't notice, when you rocket off the ship you still have aggro and Muradin starts throwing axes at you. He won't reset if you've been tanking him at the edge of the ship, he will continue to throw axes at you (with a nasty debuff that ticks for some harsh damage at large stacks) until you break range. Then he'll reset.

Point 2: I do the same, but I take off the instant the mage dies. This is because of the previous explanation.

I don't remember seeing a protadin response for the aggro issue, so here's my solution.

The bug usually occurs if you're the first one to aggro, make sure you run right to Muradin and throw a judgement (Slowed melee speed helps in survivability and it starts your kite to the edge). Remember to save avenger's shield and HoR if the bug DOES occur. Someone stated above that all it takes is a little practice to understand, and I agree fully with that. You get used to how Muradin will react depending on each situation. (Remember, if you really screw up you can save your buddy with a Hand of Sacrifice/Protection.)

Dragonscurse
04-14-2010, 07:14 AM
I position him there and just before the mage is dead, I turn my camera towards my own ship and stand ready with the rocket packs so I can jump the second all the dps are airborne.
I find it easier when i'm tanking saurfang that you can just jump off the ledge and you'll be teleported onto your ship. Even though he'll throw 1 or 2 axes while you fall it's a fast easy way to just have everyone not worry about the jetpack and jump you really won't die.

Martie
04-14-2010, 05:46 PM
I think we don't have jumping healers, and when I can I tank him near the edge of the ship. I never move him there untill I have a solid grasp on him, though. I jump over, grab initial aggro and move to his spot. I try and not use too many cooldowns while tanking him there, and when he evades (which it seems he always does), I start mashing one of my high threat moves - he's not a valid target while evading, and as soon as he becomes a valid target again, I hit him. That way, melee splash doesn't cause him to jump to the melee in question. (With pestilence, whirlwinds, consecration, blade flurry, divine storm, bladestorm, wandering plague and whatnot else, there's a lot of melee splash.)

I found that even in 25man heroic, he doesn't hit hard enough to threaten me during any part of the fight.

PatrikL
04-16-2010, 04:12 AM
Wrong. You should jump the instant melee dps kill off the mage. I'll illustrate why in the 2 point analysis.

I was told a few times by our dps to give them enough time before I jump back since some of them were ganked by him once I left. I am not sure if his behaviour has been changed (since this was long ago no) or if it was just that I jumped and then moved far enough away from him so he reset early. Ignore my previous comment then if dps getting ganked is not an issue.

Insomnia
04-16-2010, 04:25 AM
You'll find that he'll start throwing axes, you don't need to immediately jump. However the whole point of the stacking buff on muradin is trying to say to stay as little as possible on the alliance boat. I find that either way you'll be fine.

Mippo
04-27-2010, 09:46 AM
As several posters have already said just go stand next to Muradin when you jump over so that you have proximity agro over the melee. When you first jump he doesn't do much damage without any damage stacks on so you can easily stand next to him until he finishes evade bugging out then he'll agro you from proximity and you walk him back to the edge in range of your healers. The reason your melee are dying after an "evade" is because of proximity, they are closer to him and get one-shot before you can land another agro ability to pull him onto you. If you go next to him until he follows you, that's not a risk and should never happen.

Secondly, if you jump back over too quickly as a tank he can turn on the dps still on the boat and kill them or switch targets and throw an axe on other players. Assuming your dps isn't taking way too long, you can easily afford to stay there and tank him an extra few seconds while everyone jumps over before you that way no one dies on the boat or gets hit by the axe after you jump back over.

The Hoof
04-27-2010, 12:53 PM
Just a follow up to this thread, that since taking the advice to close to melee where he is first, then drag him back to the rail, I haven't had any problems with aggro.

Thanks for all the help folks.