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View Full Version : Warrior Starved for offensive stats - What can I leave behind?



Tib
03-30-2010, 07:09 AM
Throughout my experience in tier 10, I'm starved for hit and expertise... It seems like I can pick one or the other and gear hard toward it, but not both. I currently run a hybrid of a little bit of both, but I'd like to pick one or the other and I'm not sure which...

Anyone able to help?

Bodasafa
03-30-2010, 07:13 AM
Try to maintain 26 expertise skill to reach the dodge cap.

You do not need hit as a tank.

Dreadski
03-30-2010, 08:09 AM
16 expertise and no threat or dps problems at all. You don't need it.

Tib
03-30-2010, 09:46 AM
I've traditionally heard 26 expertise... but 16?

And you're both saying to avoid hit?

Vong
03-30-2010, 09:50 AM
Hit isn't a major issue 26 expertise is nice to get or close as. If item has hit on it great but do not gem for hit!

Bodasafa
03-30-2010, 10:08 AM
I've traditionally heard 26 expertise... but 16?

And you're both saying to avoid hit?

Expertise is a personal preference issue. I feel if you are close to 26, say withing x2 hybrid gems and the expertise food, go for it. Especially if you can place those hybrids in items with a +9 or +12 stam bonus because you get some back. Others say they do fine without it, again personal preference.

You shouldn't avoid hit, just don't making gearing choices based on it. If it has some cool, if not don't worry. Do not gem or enchant for it.

Loganisis
03-30-2010, 10:16 AM
I think they'd say hit isn't as important as long as you can still hit with taunt and have no threat issues.

Fledern
03-30-2010, 10:26 AM
There's the "need" level and there's the "i feel comfortable at" level. Be careful to distinguish between the two.

I've zigzagged between numbers a lot and as a warrior tank i've found that, 18 expertise and 140 hitrating is my minimum comfort level. Below those and i start feeling very very frustrated.

If/when i get a chance to increase any of those numbers, i go for increasing expertise though. I try to keep it at around 23-24 and cover the rest with expertise food. If the hit drops below 140, i see too many misses on my taunts, even with the glyph. Yes, i can live with it but i'd rather not, so you'll see the occasional +hit/stam gem on my gear, that's the reason.

Rukrow
03-30-2010, 10:50 AM
Threat is never a issue with a good tank in a raid. And there is no reason to even worry about threat stats. 0%hit, 0xp, you can still tank just fine,

Your' job is soak up boss damage, anything but a survival stat belongs to dps.

And if you feel like you need a threat state because #A its a joke fight and you just want to smash face or #B you need hit to taunt "heroic Saurfang", then switch up some gear "rings, neck, weapon" are the easiest for the least amout of stats lost

Food buff also for what ever direction you may need, +40agi/stam +40xp/stam +40hit/stam. Avoid fish feasts if you "need" a threat stat

Unger
03-31-2010, 10:49 AM
16 expertise and no threat or dps problems at all. You don't need it.

I couldnt disagree more.... whenever I am in my armor set, my hit is 80 and my expertise is 18. When I miss on an initial pull, it can cause problems. Not sure what type of group you are running with Dreador.... my guild is working on 25 LK and we have 10 man at 9/12 heroic. The team pulls pretty strong dps. For things like raging spirits, adds on Dreamwalker, adds on Deathwhisper, start of the pull for Blood Princes, and even our Pally tank gets rushed on regular 25 LK.... For me, threat components make a difference.

Dreadski
04-01-2010, 04:24 AM
I couldnt disagree more.... whenever I am in my armor set, my hit is 80 and my expertise is 18. When I miss on an initial pull, it can cause problems. Not sure what type of group you are running with Dreador.... my guild is working on 25 LK and we have 10 man at 9/12 heroic. The team pulls pretty strong dps. For things like raging spirits, adds on Dreamwalker, adds on Deathwhisper, start of the pull for Blood Princes, and even our Pally tank gets rushed on regular 25 LK.... For me, threat components make a difference.

Here's a solution to your problem, any raid with a clue does not have issues with threat. Get a Tricks and an MD on the pull and you have no problems, if you do...then you have bigger problems than offensive stats.

Bigbad
04-01-2010, 05:07 AM
I completely agree with dreador here but its nice to not rely on tricks 100% of the time.

Dreadski
04-01-2010, 06:12 AM
I completely agree with dreador here but its nice to not rely on tricks 100% of the time.

Nothing wrong with using it off the pull. Rogues can just tricks eachother after that but there's no reason not to use it on the tank the first time.

Aggathon
04-01-2010, 07:15 AM
Here's a solution to your problem, any raid with a clue does not have issues with threat. Get a Tricks and an MD on the pull and you have no problems, if you do...then you have bigger problems than offensive stats.

That's not completely accurate. In high end raid situations, especially if you are tanking adds that need to be picked up immediately and DPS'd down immediately, some DPS can still get lucky burst threat and beat you on it, even with a tricks or an MD, and this is coming from someone that was doing 11-12k TPS sustained before I quit during 3.3.2 with only 23 expertise and 121 hit. But that's SUSTAINED threat, if I get a few unlucky misses at the begining, the brown stuff can hit the rotating blades. We had a ret pally that could pull off constantly without even really trying. Now some dps can throttle back and prevent threat being pulled, but the more threat you can generate the more DPS the DPS can do. Threat is a job for warrior tanks, but survivability takes priority.

The reason why people say 26 expertise for the dodge soft cap isn't JUST so that the bosses don't dodge any more. At like 25 expertise it should be a negligible about of dodge anyways. The reason is that because up to 26 expertise, expertise is TWICE as effective as hit since it knocks both dodges and parries off of the bosses' hit table, not just 1 thing (miss) like with hit. Therefore until 26 expertise, expertise is far and away the better threat stat.

I completely agree with Unger and Fledern, it's about comfort level and what you can get away with. Maybe with some raid setups 16 expertise is okay. I was doing good with 23 expertise and 121 hit, I didn't feel like I NEEDED more and changing gear/gems around I felt was not worth the survival margin losses, especially since even with the 5% buff in ICC ~44k unbuffed and 35.6k armor unbuffed I was still getting my face smashed in my heroic Princes and had to use cooldowns very wisely to survive.

If you need to know exactly what hit numbers you need to ensure taunt doesn't miss, then take a gander at footnote 3 in my guide in my sig. It breaks down the exact levels you need based on buffs like the spriest +3% spell hit buff and 8% from glyph of taunt.

Also, it should be noted that on some fights threat is not going to matter at all. I would site MTing LK, Putricide, OTing Marrowgar, etc. etc. are fights that don't require you to do much threat.

Dreadski
04-01-2010, 12:03 PM
That's not completely accurate. In high end raid situations, especially if you are tanking adds that need to be picked up immediately and DPS'd down immediately, some DPS can still get lucky burst threat and beat you on it, even with a tricks or an MD, and this is coming from someone that was doing 11-12k TPS sustained before I quit during 3.3.2 with only 23 expertise and 121 hit. But that's SUSTAINED threat, if I get a few unlucky misses at the begining, the brown stuff can hit the rotating blades. We had a ret pally that could pull off constantly without even really trying. Now some dps can throttle back and prevent threat being pulled, but the more threat you can generate the more DPS the DPS can do.

I agree, but being the batman of tanking classes I think there's plenty we can do, even in an add situation. First, there's rage. Use charge, blood and zerker rage immediately. If you've got misses or parries or dodges on your openers, use others. If we're talking adds, opening with a tclap and a cleave queued up is optimal, if both fail shockwave or C-shout. Or if you're leet, warstomp. If you're intuitive about what can happen then you are in a position to counteract it if it happens. Also, ret paladins are nubs and should pull off you and die. =)



Threat is a job for warrior tanks, but survivability takes priority.

Indeed, which is why I have the stance I do.

Dreadski
04-01-2010, 12:42 PM
Also I feel it's worth mentioning, if you run the Cataclysmic Chest and Grinning Skull Greatboots, you have 22 expertise, eat the food and you're at the dodge cap for a warrior with Vitality. You can easily use those in a "threat set", switching that chest in for your tier.

Sublime
04-07-2010, 12:33 PM
Why the dismissive and condescending tone by you people? Yeah uh worrying about expertise or threat automatically means you or your raid are bad. :rolleyes: Some of us don't run in raids with rogues or hunters (I know neither of my 10 groups on my main or alt do) so I don't get the MD or TotT crutches.

On my warrior I had dropped down to 16-ish expertise after a few early upgrades, and at times, aggro got a little shaky especially in the first 10-15 seconds off a pull or tank switch. Picked up the pants to get back into the low 20's and things felt much better and now I have the sword to put me back just above the softcap and things are peachy. If you're a warrior I'd say use whatever gear to stay at 20-ish or so, any less and I feel bad stuff can happen.

Now if only shambling horrors would stop resisting my glyphed taunts grrrr

Dreadski
04-07-2010, 04:09 PM
Why the dismissive and condescending tone by you people? Yeah uh worrying about expertise or threat automatically means you or your raid are bad. :rolleyes: Some of us don't run in raids with rogues or hunters (I know neither of my 10 groups on my main or alt do) so I don't get the MD or TotT crutches.

On my warrior I had dropped down to 16-ish expertise after a few early upgrades, and at times, aggro got a little shaky especially in the first 10-15 seconds off a pull or tank switch. Picked up the pants to get back into the low 20's and things felt much better and now I have the sword to put me back just above the softcap and things are peachy. If you're a warrior I'd say use whatever gear to stay at 20-ish or so, any less and I feel bad stuff can happen.

Now if only shambling horrors would stop resisting my glyphed taunts grrrr


Nothing condescending. I never said you NEEDED TOT or MD to do well, but if you are having troubles then perhaps should. My last 10 man pug didn't have either class either but I had no issues at all. Currently at 20 expertise if I use the Wyrmsteak. Easily pulling at least 12k TPS.

Aggathon
04-07-2010, 04:42 PM
condescending tone by you people?

What do you mean YOU people?

Edit: also one of the reasons why it might appear as exasperation is because we get a lot of the same questions over and over again, kinda grinds down on you and it's really hard to convey tone or intent over the internet, so it might seem way more condescending than it really is.

Muffin Man
04-08-2010, 02:39 AM
Indeed. There's even a post in General titled 'Do tanks that stack stam lack threat?'

I like having threat stats, I hate seeing Rev/SS/Dev all get parried in a row. That said, the threat game is way too easy right now (Blizz has admitted to this) and that's even before you consider threat transfers.

Yes, the beginning of a pull is dicey, but it always will be unless you are fully capped for hit/expertise. That's why people take different stances on how much hit/expertise you really *need*. It is a comfort thing. But it's a raid makeup thing. If you raid with a bunch of slow-wind up classes then you are more unlikely to have threat pulled off you early. If your raid bloodlusts on the pull and mages mirror image and pop trinkets, then you are much more likely to have problems (don't laugh that was my guild's early strategy for Rotface then we discovered the MI bug)...

I dps as an Arms Warrior and an Unholy DK, they're at the opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of burst threat. I've never once had a problem with my DK (diseases + pet means I do low, low threat early on). But I have tons of problems on my Arms warrior (the first MS is a near-guaranteed crit, OP is a guaranteed crit... I might proc execute which can crit and has a +threat modifier... then I'm dead).

Papapaint
04-08-2010, 08:58 AM
I run with 13 expertise. The closest I come to gearing offensive stats is being hit-capped on taunt-sensitive fights, like saurfang heroic, lich king tanking (RAGING SPIRITS FFFFF), dreakwalker, putricide, festergut, sindragosa, and even on those fights, I only have to swap one piece of gear and eat hit food to be capped.

Offensive stats were more relevant in naxx, when our devestate/revenge weren't quite as strong as they are now. Luckily, we've got tons of threat at our disposal, and very few fights in ICC require fast threat ramp-ups. BQL is the closest, and even that fight doesn't give me issues with or without tricks.

Keep in mind that most fights have other stuff for people to do. Switching to bone spikes, dpsing slimes, running away from shit, running towards shit, it's all basically free threat time for you.

Unger
04-08-2010, 09:15 AM
Yeah I dont think my raid is bad. We are 6/12 heroic 25 and 10/12 heroic 10. And we still have bosses up this week.

Initial threat is an issue. You have to be able to keep adds for specific fights. Princes is a great example... people are going to go nuts and charge generally runs you right past the boss. Getting raging spirits for LK is another example. Having the ability to climb the threat meter as a warrior for Heroic Lady Deathwhisper is another. Missing and getting parried there is terrible when you have to get to 2nd place and you dont have a ton of rage. Adds on Dreamwalker.... they have to be BURST down... but you have to pick up 2-3 at once. You simply cant afford to miss. In MANY of these situations, you cannot count on a misdirect or a ToTT.

Saying threat is only an issue for bad raids is pretty short sighted. Threat, like any other component in the game, must be managed. If the game was all Festergut fights, your analysis might be correct. But its not.... and there is a place for threat stats for tanks.

As a matter of fact, what kind of raid dps DOESNT put some kind of pressure on tanks? If you have guys destroying meters (like in my guild), you better be thinking about threat.

Dreadski
04-08-2010, 09:49 AM
.

As a matter of fact, what kind of raid dps DOESNT put some kind of pressure on tanks? If you have guys destroying meters (like in my guild), you better be thinking about threat.

The point is if your threat is bad to begin with more stats will do very little for you. Threat is about rotation and talents. Having 26 expertise is up to preference. You're on heroic 25 man? Look at the threat stats for tanks in Paragon.

Unger
04-08-2010, 01:05 PM
I just logged into Xav's character to make a point. He is, like most warrior tanks, in 4 piece T10. He has mostly armor pieces.... but instead of the typical Pillars of Might, he has the Leggards of Lost Hope on (heroic). One of the best warrior tanks in the entire world has actually geared for hit. He is at 307 hit and 16 expertise.

Listen, youre trying to make a point.... but you're just wrong. If you want hit for taunts or for threat, the fact is the same. Tanks adjust their gear for the specific fight to min/max the event and give themselves the best chance to win. I dont know for sure.... but I am willing to bet that most end game tanks working on heroic 25s (and even 10s) have 7-8 sets of gear. At least one of those sets will be for threat. The reason why is for the exact reason the OP asked for help. To ensure that they dont have a miss/dodge/parry at the beginning of any fight. We also need taunts to land.

Your response to the original poster was that he shouldnt have to worry about it. Then you responded to my comment that any raid that needs this isnt a good raid. I submit to you that neither of these comments is accurate. There is a place in this game for tanks to have to concern themselves with threat. Perhaps not like they used to in TBC, but a tricks/MD isnt always available. I have mages and rogues in my gulid that can rip off of anyone.....

I took a look at your characters achievements and it doesnt appear that you are tanking in heroics. That means that you are probably not having to hold off dps that is capable of heroics. I suggest that you be open to the possibility that threat mechanics should not be ignored and that there is a time and place for them, just like everything else.

Aggathon
04-08-2010, 01:27 PM
Even though I am now retired, I did step in to tank H-Blood Princes and that's a pretty bad example imo. The beginning threat a little bit sure, but TotT should make up for that.

Xav is probably going for hit since he's using the 5/15/51 spec for survival for progression and thusly doesn't have impale/dw, but I am kind of confused since he's using glyph of taunt and with just glyph you only need 237 hit and melee hit cap is 264, so he's way over both caps.

Maybe he just has glyph of taunt in atm but wants to be taunt capped if he drops it for another glyph for something else.

You really can't look at 1 specific tank and say "oh I'm gonna do what he does" because it can vary per encounter and he could be trying various combinations to kill H-LK25.

Also all 277 tanks should go for the 4 set, that has nothing to do with hit, or threat, or whatever. Why he's using those legs is kind of confusing unless he just wants the increased stam for the spell damage in the LK fight... actually... I bet that's what he's doing, those have more stam than pillars of might by 32. Add in the modifiers for the ICC buff and do the EHP calcs for magical damage and I bet those legs are better.

It's my official conclusion that Xav is stacking stam for H-LK25 and has nothing to do with hit levels. If he wants to come prove me wrong, then by all means, but based on his setup there's absolutely not reason to wear those legs for hit because even with out them he's over the taunt hit cap and almost to the melee hit cap just because of the hit levels that come on ICC25 gear.

Edit: also my guild is 10/12 hardmode and we got US 8th putricide? Does that make me more credible than you? (hint: experience is sometimes a bad argument)

Unger
04-08-2010, 01:37 PM
Im not trying to say that you need to have all world experience to contribute.... but heroic dps is definitely another animal than regular dps. If youre downing BQ on heroic, your people bring it hard.

My point with Xav wasnt that he was stacking hit for anything other than he is adjusting to specific fights. We should all do that.... including threat mechanics.

Aggathon
04-08-2010, 01:38 PM
Ya, but he's not doing it for threat mechanics, in fact his gearing suggests that he is doing the exact opposite and he is gearing for as much survivability as possible even if the gear that gives him the most stam pushes him way over the hit cap. He's actually doing EXACTLY what we're advocating.

Unger
04-08-2010, 01:49 PM
Could you please explain your reasoning here? How are the Leggards better for survival? The Pillars have the exact same stam, slightly better avoidance and a crap ton more armor..... The trade off for the armor is the hit.... so Im not sure how youre saying this is better survivability.

Muffin Man
04-08-2010, 01:54 PM
B/C LK is predominantly a magic damage fight. And the T10 4piece is based off total hp, which also favors stamina stacking.

We were just discussing this in the shoutbox since I was curious too =p.

Edit: there's the comparison Legguards have more stamina btw: http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items=50612;49904

Unger
04-08-2010, 02:02 PM
There is no more stamina on the Leggards than on the Pillars, is there? Did they change the stats on the Leggards?

In any event, BQ is not a good example of a fight that threat is an issue. Its primarily a tank and spank and there is a mechanic that removes threat from your best dps quickly into the fight. The fights where threat can be an issue are:

- Heroic Dreamwalker
- Heroic Deathwhisper
- Heroic Princes
- Regular LK raging spirits (havent seen heroic so I dont know)

The thread is about an OP that wanted to boost his threat in exchange for some survival. On most of the fights I just names, its completely appropriate to make that kind of a sacrifice in exchange for more threat (maybe not Princes). The theory that Aggathon and Dreador are espousing is that you shouldnt care about threat mechanics for tanking. I disagree with this. There is a time and place for threat gearing and a good tank will know when to do it.

Edit: ooo they buffed the stamina on the Leggards..... the one I used on wowhead must be old.... I used this link.... http://www.wowhead.com/item=49964. These are the non heroic ones. My bad.

Aggathon
04-08-2010, 02:15 PM
You should work on your reading comprehension a little bit.

1) Xav is using the 277 Legguards which have more stam than pillars of might.

2) We are saying that given the current state of warrior threat mechanics, not much, if any, threat stats are really needed.

3) I specifically was saying that it depends on "comfort levels" and what you and your DPS are capable of doing in terms of TPS

4) If you're "doing it right" only minimal threat stats should be necessary to maintain high TPS, this is due to current mechanics especially with the 3.3.2 changes to devastate and 3.3.3 changes to revenge

5) I was contesting the contention that Xav is stacking threat stats, and in fact the fight in question that I was talking about (and why Xav is gearing the way he is) is H-LK25, not BQL.

6) Even if you want to make those arguments, it is REALLY clear that Xav isn't going for threat since he is using the 5/15/51 spec which doesn't even have impale/deep wounds, 2 of the best threat talents that are some of the basis for why threat stats aren't really needed.

7) I am also advocating knowledge of fights and mechanics because while the 277 legs have more stam than pillars of might, they are not overal more EHP against PHYISCAL damage, however based on his setup, he is probably solo tanking H-LK25 (other tanks are probably getting the adds) and with his setup he wouldn't need outside cooldowns. Since he has access to 4pc 277 T10 the 4 piece also benefits from stacking raw stam instead of armor as well. To drive this point home further, against magic damage using the TheckHD EHP calculation the ICC buff becomes even more beneficial when considering the ratio of armor to stam since stam gives more HPs so you get to add more HP to the magical side of the equation.

8) All this comes from the knowledge of why, which admittedly often gets left out, but people need to learn to THINK FOR THEMSELVES and use their knowledge of tanking mechanics to make the appropriate decision. In fact, unless you are doing the exact same content and exact same strat as a high end tank, you shouldn't look at their armories and make assumptions. I HATE that, especially since highly specialized fights like H-Anub25 or H-LK25 require vastly different gearsets from the norm and the average joe that comes to these forums won't be on that fight for a long time, so doling out advice based on that is, well... ill-advised.

I really need to write a freaking "why you do what you do" post or something.

Unger
04-08-2010, 02:31 PM
I will agree that after further review, the comparison to Xav was not a good one. However, I dont believe that invalidates the argument.

1) Agreed

2) While this comment is interesting, the OP was asking for the best ways to increase his threat stats. Its not an unreasonable question and it deserved better than "dont worry about it"

3) While you may have been saying this, this is not what the other tanks in this thread have said. Some have said you need expertise only and need no hit. Others have said you should completely disregard threat mechanics. The OP asked for ways to trade threat mechanics for survival mechanics. This, in and of itself, is not necessarily a bad thing. There is a time and place for this.

4) If youre running to grab an abom on Heroic Dreamwalker and you see an archmage across the room, you cant charge the archmage because the abom could debuff the dps that are set up between you and the Zombie. You taunt it, heroic throw to get some threat up, and hope it makes it to you without some mage blowing it up. FYI, on heroic, the archmages, zombies, aboms and skeletons all hit for enough to kill dps if its not tanked (unlike regular). The abom is about to go down, so you know youre going to have worms and you need to make sure your tclap and shockwave are ready to go right when they pop. If you think this is an unusual event for a tank on this fight, youre lucky. It happens to me all the time.

5) I concede this point

6) Again, I concede this.

7) On a side note, If he is tanking LK, he likely wouldnt have to worry much about the adds and therefore, would not have to worry about snap aggro.

8) Thinking for himself was exactly what the original OP was doing before he was summarily drowned out by the people in this thread who told him that he shouldnt need threat items and if he does, he is bad. He recognized that he was under expertise dodge cap, under hit cap and asked a question. Seeking out smart people to get advice isnt a bad thing.... or is it?

My reading comprehension is fine though. A shame it had to go there....

Aggathon
04-08-2010, 02:41 PM
And we GAVE him those responses, read Boda's post or my first long one, I broke it down for him and even agreed with you to an extent initially.


I just logged into Xav's character to make a point. He is, like most warrior tanks, in 4 piece T10. He has mostly armor pieces.... but instead of the typical Pillars of Might, he has the Leggards of Lost Hope on (heroic). One of the best warrior tanks in the entire world has actually geared for hit. He is at 307 hit and 16 expertise.

Listen, youre trying to make a point.... but you're just wrong.^ This is what pissed me off, especially since you make several contentions and assertions that are flat out wrong, which you conceded in your last post, and then try to say that WE are wrong for it. Giving opinions is fine and I agreed with your comfort level, but you are giving inaccurate information to someone, and that is something that bothers me, especially when you are taking the person and the gear out of context.

Edit: and especially when there are tons of other posts on the subject matter and I explained WHY people are saying expertise:


The reason why people say 26 expertise for the dodge soft cap isn't JUST so that the bosses don't dodge any more. At like 25 expertise it should be a negligible about of dodge anyways. The reason is that because up to 26 expertise, expertise is TWICE as effective as hit since it knocks both dodges and parries off of the bosses' hit table, not just 1 thing (miss) like with hit. Therefore until 26 expertise, expertise is far and away the better threat stat.

Dreadski
04-08-2010, 02:48 PM
Im not trying to say that you need to have all world experience to contribute.... but heroic dps is definitely another animal than regular dps. If youre downing BQ on heroic, your people bring it hard.

My point with Xav wasnt that he was stacking hit for anything other than he is adjusting to specific fights. We should all do that.... including threat mechanics.


So, curious, how much DPS are your DPS players putting out? Mine are hitting 13k on normal fights like fester or saurfang even, that's the midrange, the higher ones are getting numbers like 15 or more. 16 expertise skill on my toon and zero (0) issues with threat.

Aggathon
04-08-2010, 02:50 PM
Well on BQL they don't do any threat after bitten... just sayin'.

Dreadski
04-08-2010, 02:52 PM
Well on BQL they don't do any threat after bitten... just sayin'.

Bad example, either way this thread started out pretty pointless and has turned into something even more pointless.....we're arguing shit that's been hashed out already.

Unger
04-08-2010, 02:53 PM
Well be pissed off then. I made ONE contention that is likely incorrect about Xav's gear. We have no way of really knowing, but I agree that you are likely correct.

The mistake I made was that I tried to illustrate my point using Xav's makeup. This, in no way, invalidated the argument that threat gear is, at times, necessary. The point I was taking issue with was NOT yours. It was Dreador's, who stated that raids are bad if you have threat issues. Well, if that's true, my guild is bad then. But we are also pretty deep into heroic 25s and 10s, so we might want to re-examine that.

If someone is saying that threat is just not an issue, they are wrong. I absolutely stand by that. Please do not take the one issue of Xav's gear and completely invalidate my argument. I conceded one point. That likely Xav's choice was not about threat. That doesnt mean that all tanks should ignore threat and that does not meant that my point should be lost.

Aggathon
04-08-2010, 03:00 PM
Is this your armor Unger? http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Frostmane&cn=Unger

Because frankly Dreador's right, the DPS, even if doing 13k dps, really shouldn't be riding your butt much past the first 10 or 15 seconds or ever if you have 1 or 2 MDs or TotT. It is really easy to pump out 12k+ threat even without many threat stats, and warriors have a utility belt that batman would be proud of to ensure they can get snap threat or at least get a fixate until they do have threat.

If you want I would be more than happy to move this to PMs to help you out with this. (Although hint: it could be because you only have 12 expertise, even less than dreador and have some interesting gemming choices that you could change to make up for that if you are having issues).

Unger
04-08-2010, 03:06 PM
Actually we should go further and address the issue you brought up. Speculation about another good tanks choices lead us to knowledge. Either we figure out why they chose what they did, or we could be led to discover that their logic is flawed in some way. Part of going through this is challenging each others assumptions (and our own) and trying our best to beat the events that Blizzard has set in front of us.

The BEST part of this type of community is the ability to share ideas and logic and strategies in ways that could never have been done before we had these resources. We might disagree on whether or not threat gear has a place for an end game tank.... we might disagree on the stacking of armor or stamina. Enchants differ.... procs change, gear evolves and then Blizzard puts another set of challenges in front of us.

However, your comment about "reading comprehension" represents the worst of this type of community. This is a comment that you likely would not have said to someone in person, but because of the anonymity of the internet, its ok to be disrespectful to other people. You see this in a MUCH more dramatic fashion on the wow forums or in /2 for dalaran. The worst of our human nature comes out in this environment.... and it spoils the gains of the technology. I said I disagreed with the assessment that threat didnt matter. For that matter, I said Dreador was "wrong"

Not only does your comment feed into elitism on forums, it also discourages other people from speaking up for fear of "pissing someone off" in a forum, as though these hallowed halls should be monitored like the interior of the Pentagon or perhaps Fort Knox.

So in the end, you win..... Xav wasnt wearing that because he needed threat. You have successfully defended your electronic "turf". I just cant help but wonder if Tankspot won....

Unger
04-08-2010, 03:08 PM
LOL, yes that is me. Im pretty pleased with my choices on my gems. However, I will send you a PM

Dreadski
04-08-2010, 03:12 PM
Is this your armor Unger? http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Frostmane&cn=Unger

Because frankly Dreador's right, the DPS, even if doing 13k dps, really shouldn't be riding your butt much past the first 10 or 15 seconds or ever if you have 1 or 2 MDs or TotT. It is really easy to pump out 12k+ threat even without many threat stats, and warriors have a utility belt that batman would be proud of to ensure they can get snap threat or at least get a fixate until they do have threat.

If you want I would be more than happy to move this to PMs to help you out with this. (Although hint: it could be because you only have 12 expertise, even less than dreador and have some interesting gemming choices that you could change to make up for that if you are having issues).

Meh the only thing I saw messed up was the glove chant and the +10 unnecessary stats.

To be clear, I never said anyone was bad, go back and quote me. I was actually quoting Xav (the amount of Xav-humping in this thread is disgusting, mine included) "Threat is not an issue for any raid with a clue."

http://premoguild.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5182

How horrible is your threat with 12 expertise? I bet it's fine. I could be wrong, but based on the gear available to you I'd say your threat is probably fine.

Kazeyonoma
04-08-2010, 03:17 PM
I'm pretty sure the OP got what he wanted out of this thread, now we're just arguing amongst each other and not for the sake of the OP. If you still have questions Tib, please ask again in a new thread with specific questions like (I'm having trouble keeping aggro during the first 30 seconds of festergut because everyone is dps'ing hard; I don't have any rogues or hunters in my 10 man group, so I'm sort of wondering what I can do to try to fix it, here's my armory link incase it need to respec/reglyph/regear/regem, TY! -- which btw should go into the HALP! forum at that point).

As always, good discussion boys, but lets not get too personally heated yeh?

Thread closed.