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View Full Version : [Video]: HC HoR - Warrior strategy & tips



Athinira
03-28-2010, 08:45 AM
Video recorded from Heroic Halls of Reflection. With comments and tips for warriors tanks, as well as a strategy (fighting at the Altar).

I forgot to turn on recording for the first part of the waves, so only Wave 6 through 10, as well as the escape are recorded. I might make an additional video later.

Vid is 8 min long total. HD Quality will be coming online when YouTube's processing system gets a move on, probably sometime in the next century or so. Until then, the quality will be a little lower. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvP7ABQwrw0&hd=1

Edit: HD Quality is finally online.

Eraser
03-28-2010, 10:12 AM
Kind of weird, I thought the accepted strat was just to use the small off-shoot to the room and just get everyone to LoS the pull. It makes it alot easier.

Athinira
03-28-2010, 10:32 AM
Kind of weird, I thought the accepted strat was just to use the small off-shoot to the room and just get everyone to LoS the pull. It makes it alot easier.

In my opinion, it's a terrible tactic, especially if the group is undergeared. First of all, it should be mentioned that before my prot warrior in the video hit 80, i tanked the instance on my Feral Druid, as well as i healed the instance on my Druid with all tank classes. I've tried all tactics, and i initially also started out with the hiding tactic, but found it has some problems:

1) First, if the healer (and the rest of the group) has to LoS the mobs, and if the tank has to go out and pick up a mob, then he will also be LoS'ing the healer. I've seen quite a few tanks do that on me and die because i couldn't get into LoS and heal them fast enough when the huntermob has dropped a Frost Trap right where the group is. I've also died myself a few times charging out.

2) When you are gathering all the mobs up like that, the group is going to take more AOE damage from the priests Circle of Destruction (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=72323) and the mages Flamestrikes.

3) If you don't have a persistent AOE (Consecration or Death of Decay), there is always going to be a chance that the mobs pass by you before you can hit them and gib someone (most likely the healer)

5) Makes CC impractical if you decide to use it

5) Finally and most importantly: When you are gathering up all the mobs, you will be taking more damage as a tank. This is especially a problem when the tank and healer is undergeared. If you use the tactic above (or the tactic where you stand at the front door), then you can Charge, Intercept, Intervene or Feral Charge around, and therefore make the melee mobs chase you, giving your healer breathing room.

I have another video on Youtube where i tanked the instance using the front door tactic. This was part of a bet where i had to lower my gearlevel to 4k Gearscore (unequipped both rings and one trinket) and not use Intercept, Intervene or Heroic Throw on my warrior, as well as no CC. Tanking the instance in the Alcove would probably have been impossible with those restrictions. You can watch the video here: HC HoR Doorway Strategy - 4k GS prot war (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0arZwCeR2M&hd=1)


My suggestion is to stay away from the Alcove tactic if you play a Druid or a Warrior, and only use it as DK/Paladin. I found that using the Doorway strat works best as a druid, and Altar tac works best as a war.

Eraser
03-28-2010, 11:14 AM
I'm a warrior and I've always used the alcove tactic and found that I've had no problems. I'm not sure whether this is a case of what is the best strat, or more the case pick the strat that you feel more comfortable with. Anyway, appreciate the effort and I'm sure someone will be helped by the video in any case.

Delmonico
03-28-2010, 11:21 AM
When I tank H HoR, I tell my group to stand just inside the doorway, so that they aren't locked out. I then can use all those fun tools that warriors have to zip all over the room, picking up mobs.

People tend to be surprised when I say no alcove, really no alcove, GET OUT OF THE DAMN ALCOVE, but when they see how a warrior operates everyone has liked how smooth the run goes.

Come to think of it, the only time I have wiped when tanking was when I tried to use the alcove method. AoE damage and healer LoS issues wiped us out.

Del.

Khordam
03-28-2010, 12:52 PM
I've gone by the doorway strat from the start, the alcove is way too confining for my taste. Warriors are made to move, not to stand still! On the other hand, I prefer the mobs to converge to cleave/thunderclap range before they actually reach the healer. What's the advantage of Altar over Doorway? That trigger-happy DPS can start earlier without making it too much of a pain to get the mobs back?

On another note, you've got yourself quite an extraordinary UI there. Would you mind revealing some of its secrets, such as this cooldown slider at the bottom of the viewport?

Arikak
03-28-2010, 01:41 PM
Yeah, very interesting UI.

I believe the cooldown bar is either Coolline or Forte Xorcist. But the OP can confirm.

Athinira
03-28-2010, 02:17 PM
On another note, you've got yourself quite an extraordinary UI there. Would you mind revealing some of its secrets, such as this cooldown slider at the bottom of the viewport?

Sure, here are all the addons:
Combatlog at the top left is EavesDrop
Omen Threat meter below it.
Bartender4 with ButtonFacade for the potion bars
Viewport is Sunn Viewport
Cooldown Slider is ForteXorcist
Nameplates is TidyPlates with the addon Tideplates Threatplates
Cooldownbuttons, procs etc. in the middle is PowerAuras
UnitFrames are Pitbull3
Recount
Party/Raidframes are VuhDo (i play a druid as a main, so using VuhDo for healing)
Buffs are Elkano Buff Bars
Minimap is SexyMap
The ring that appears when i mark mobs is OPie
And then a few misc mods, like CT_Core (from CTmod.net), DeadlyBossMods, AtlasLoot, Baggins (bags) and FuBar.

Bolded the more important ones.


What's the advantage of Altar over Doorway?

The mobs gather more quickly, and that you always know where the healer is (i ask the healer to jump up on the altar). It makes picking up the adds much easier than at door.

I prefer the door when tanking on my druid though. Just make sure the healer is behind you and you can pick up everything with Swipe. Much harder as a warrior since TC isn't spamable.

Khordam
03-28-2010, 02:50 PM
Thanks, for both the listing and the clarification! I'll try it next time I get it on my random trip... can't be too long, it feels like I get either HoR, Nexus or Ahn'kahet eight out of ten times.

Valalvax
03-28-2010, 04:38 PM
I've tried it from all different locations, behind the alcoves, simply have ranged in the alcove, at the front door, at the back door, in the middle of the room, all work pretty well for me

Travelsize
03-28-2010, 05:58 PM
<3 doorway.

Charge the mob that appears closest to the door (as he breaks the plane from the main room to the doorway alcove), then use your taunt and thunderclap to pick up the next couple of mobs (it's cake if your timing is good). If the straggler mob is the mage, heroic throw it over to you, if it's the hunter what you can do is just drag all the mobs over to him, sit on top of the hunter and spam your aoe abilities.

Just make sure the priest always dies first, followed by the rogue, then preferably the ranged. The priest is the worst due to the combination of healing, fear, and knockback stun. The rogue goes next for the healing reduction poison and the ability to stun you at bad times and shadowstep over to the healer.

When I tried the left or right alcove los method the healer died due to lack of rage (no charging for me!). That tactic seems to be for pallies and dks who can drop consecrate/dnd and bears who can swipe spam.

If mobs get past you and onto the healer, there are a number of things a war can do to save his butt. They are shockwave, challenging shout, and intervene in order of utility.

When I tried middle of the room tanking I had some rage issues (can't charge, it'll drag me away from the healer!) and if I got both ranged they would immediately open up on the healer.

Offhand I'd say the biggest advantage the doorway gives you is time. You get an extra second or two to see what mobs spawned and pick them up before they kill the party.

Kurtosis
03-28-2010, 07:38 PM
Video recorded from Heroic Halls of Reflection. With comments and tips for warriors tanks, as well as a strategy (fighting at the Altar).
Saw your post on the wow forums, thanks again for posting it here too. Great stuff.

Need to make a campaign out of this to get everyone who pugs H HoR to use this strat w/ Warrior tanks. No more hiding in the alcove like a bunch of feeble cowards!!! LOK'TAR OGAR!

Kurtosis
03-28-2010, 07:41 PM
When I tank H HoR, I tell my group to stand just inside the doorway, so that they aren't locked out. I then can use all those fun tools that warriors have to zip all over the room, picking up mobs.

People tend to be surprised when I say no alcove, really no alcove, GET OUT OF THE DAMN ALCOVE, but when they see how a warrior operates everyone has liked how smooth the run goes.

Come to think of it, the only time I have wiped when tanking was when I tried to use the alcove method. AoE damage and healer LoS issues wiped us out.
Same. At the start of HoR I ask everyone to come over to the Lich King's doorway, b/c it's "too hard to use Charge/Intercept/Intervene in the corner". So far that's been acceptable to everyone, and I've only wiped once when a dps didn't get message and stayed in the alcove anyway.

Kurtosis
03-28-2010, 07:46 PM
When I tried middle of the room tanking I had some rage issues (can't charge, it'll drag me away from the healer!) and if I got both ranged they would immediately open up on the healer.
That's why OP says to start each wave standing at a mob, as soon as you can Shield Slam/Devastate/Mocking Blow/whatever threat move is available, then immediately Intervene the healer so the ranged mobs don't kill him. Only then do you use Charge, Intercept, Heroic Throw to round up the rest of them.

Offhand I'd say the biggest advantage the doorway gives you is time. You get an extra second or two to see what mobs spawned and pick them up before they kill the party.
I do like that too, but I don't think it's significantly more time than OP's strat. The two (sometimes three) mobs that spawn on your side of the room are actually closer, and you have less time to deal with them.

I hate it when the neither the priest, rogue, or mage are part of that group, and it's footman/hunter or footman/footman. I've gotta swivel the camera trying to see what's coming from across the room and marking the priest, while simultaneously grabbing the two mobs on this side. If anything goes wrong during this fight, that's when it happens.

Kurtosis
03-28-2010, 07:51 PM
One thing H HoR has shown me is exactly what people mean when they say the other three tanks just hold aggro and take the beating, while a Prot Warrior actually has the tools to do something about it, and is hence so much more fun.

Charge, Intercept, Intervene, Heroic Throw, Disarm, Shield Reflect, Shield Bash, Shockwave, Concussion Blow, Demo Shout, TC debuff, Challenging Shout... I actually enjoy H HoR on my war, it's a chore on my DK.

Arikak
03-28-2010, 11:35 PM
I feel the same way. I get to use my arsenal in H HoR unlike every other instance.

A warrior can tank from any position in the room. The other tanking classes simply can't, at least not as well.

Darksend
03-28-2010, 11:50 PM
The alcove is the worst spot to tank it, and really just caters to idiots who are like OMG OMG IM BEING ATTACKED LET ME RUN AROUND LIKE AN EVEN BIGGER RETARD. The biggest problem is the "o look a mob which interupts casters, lets drag it right on top of the casters". Granted I never ran that place without a DK on my warrior which made it 1000x easier because you only needed to use heroic throw in an emergency and it was no big deal on waves it was still down. But on my druid I still refuse to tank in the alcove for the above reason. I agree with going just far enough into the room you do not get locked out and standing there. Makes things so much easier.

swelt
03-29-2010, 03:20 AM
I don't think that's quite fair Darksend, but then I'm not sure that "tank in alcove" means the same thing to everyone:
- Some people think "tank in alcove" means "everyone jammed right in the corner, tank using whatever AOE they have to agro everything". This I can see is terrible technique.
- Some people use the LOS block at the edge of the alcove as a means to draw the spawning mobs to one side of the room, but then take the fight out onto the steps. This is the way I've always done it and don't see any problem with suggesting it as an approach.

However you choose to do it, you need to handle the fact that there are 2 possible spawns that will hang back at range: the mage and the hunter. If you don't handle them, they will drift very quickly to attacking your healer and shortly afterwards you'll be eating floor. Darksend used a DK to grip one in, that's a good example of using the capabilities of the GROUP rather than expecting the tank to do everything. Other alternatives like shackle, freezing arrow, repentance or turn undead might also be worth considering. The vid in the OP seems to rely entirely on the tank doing everything, and doing it in the centre of the room. That positioning seems to make the job harder to me, but if you can make it work that's great.

Darksend
03-29-2010, 04:12 AM
Almost every time I ran that it was with my warrior a DK from my guild, and an enh shaman from my guild. We would always get a pug healer, the pug DPS would go run off into the corner and hide and scratch his head when we did not go also, and usually leave the group. The healer on the other hand, EVERY SINGLE HEALER we ran with said "thank god I hate tanking it in the corner stupid LOS and aoe." The instance actually goes faster if you CC and single target everything, and needing to be out of LOS means you cannot CC, and also means you as the tank are out of LOS of your healer, which I am sure they do not like.

Harder = funner, I would much rather do the way in the video because it is 100x more enjoyable and in the end probably faster.

Also when I was running this on my rogue I convinced every single tank I ran with to tank it in the middle. The way you do that is you see what is spawning where, the entire group moves over to where a hunter is going to spawn, that way the tank can grab it right away and does not have to worry about moving it, and burn it down right away while the other dps mobs are running in. When the melee get there just pop an aoe and get them both at the same time. I as the rogue would tricks the tank and stand next to the mage in stealth and garrote it than kick it than kidney it and it would reach him around the same time as the other mobs are dieing. If there was no mage I would use cheap shop/kidney into a dismantle with a tricks on mercenaries.

The alcove all-around means more healing needed and more damage needed. Play as a dam group and remember that heroics DO NOT MEAN SPAM AOE NON-STOP like it if the only ability you know and that place is a joke.

Emi
03-29-2010, 04:56 AM
I feel the same way. I get to use my arsenal in H HoR unlike every other instance.

A warrior can tank from any position in the room. The other tanking classes simply can't, at least not as well.
This is simply untrue. I have tanked it with my DK, Paladin and Warrior and though IMO the warrior is the most fun to tank HoR with, your statement is flat out false as ive tanked that instance from "any position in the room" with my other 2 tanks with no issues whatsoever.

swelt
03-29-2010, 05:01 AM
The instance actually goes faster if you CC and single target everything, and needing to be out of LOS means you cannot CC, and also means you as the tank are out of LOS of your healer, which I am sure they do not like.
I think you missed my point. I think there is a clear distinction between "everyone huddles in the corner til every mob arrives" and "using LOS to help get mobs over to one side". The former is the AOE facerolling you describe and naturally something to frown upon. The latter seems to me to be intelligent use of the layout. There's nothing stopping someone stepping out to CC a target on the way in, should your group have classes that can CC. My history with HOR seems to have had almost always a lack of decent undead CC options... which is why I made the point about exercising the strength of your group.

Darksend
03-29-2010, 05:06 AM
Using the corner at all gives the healer LOS issues, including the "using los to help get mobs over to one side" method.

HarassMe
03-29-2010, 09:27 AM
as a warrior, i stay away from those alcoves like the plague. I dont see the point in taking away the best mobility powers in the game. With all the charges at our disposal, i have never been in a position where i couldnt get to a mob before it reaches another target.

timbolina
03-29-2010, 10:35 AM
Thanks for the heads up I've hated this instance since it came into play. I have been doing it wrong, it was embarrising that could not get it right and from now on im out of the corner.

Mačl
03-30-2010, 04:17 AM
In the doorway you can keep your ranged at range and you can actually see when something is headed their way. I only worry about the healers.
Also you can move out of the mage's AoE, which makes it a lower priority AND WE GET TO DEAL WITH THE $%!#* HUNTER FIRST.

Especially as a warrior you can zip from enemy to enemy. And after the priest is gone you can send your DPS to the hunter, which is one headache less. The mage doesn't worry me between heroic throw and spell reflect. I was made to tank footmen. Only the rogue remains a nuisance. He usually is the one I try to whittle down myself ASAP.

But it's not only the tank who suffers in the alcove. Healers will have to stay out of the LOS, yet their tank is outside. Doesn't work that way. And I can't shackle. And my rogue has trouble getting behind the mobs. Sucks for shadow dance. Everybody is standing in some kind of AOE because that's the strat. That's plain stupid.

The alcove "strat" was dreamed up by the LOL AOE PWNZR generation.

I've said elsewere:
That's as much a strategy as slowliy walking towards enemy rifle men and clearing mine fields by doing the fandango.

The plan is to let the tank do all the thinking while DPS can remain in its comfy cushion of unaccountability. You'll have priests that down shackle. Hunters who don't misdirect. Rogues who won't ToT you while burning a dangerous ranged mob down. Paladins who don't fear them(yes, they are undead and yes you can get rid of them). That's a strategy for the WotLK generation of players.

protonly
03-30-2010, 05:26 AM
3) If you don't have a persistent AOE (Consecration or Death of Decay), there is always going to be a chance that the mobs pass by you before you can hit them and gib someone (most likely the healer)

My suggestion is to stay away from the Alcove tactic if you play a Druid or a Warrior, and only use it as DK/Paladin. I found that using the Doorway strat works best as a druid, and Altar tac works best as a war.

Nice video. The real kicker for me about not using the LOS strat is your third point. That LOS strat only works if you can poop an aoe ticker on the floor and let it do all the work. That's probably my biggest beef with the game right now; warrior's CAN aoe tank...we just do it differently than the other classes...warriors have to use this ability called SKILL.

Only thing I'd add is that if my healer is a druid I vig them b/c of their hots and that the only priority kill I ever mark is the rogues due to their stun locks.

@ Mačl - you're right on point. The "normal" strat is for the droolers who love to aoe mindlessly. But this instance is so much more fun when you out think it. Charging, interveneing, stuning, silencing, fearing, shackleing, etc, you have a lot of different options to handle the 10 waves in that little room. Every class has some form of a cc/stun ability that works...but no one ever thinks to use it. And yes quite a few players have told me that asking them to cc is "too much" ...

Krays
03-30-2010, 05:33 AM
I watched the video, Its nice, but means the warrior has to be on the ball every single pack, one mistake and its a wipe. Its the way i probably would tank Hhor had i not read tacts for the place in advance.

However your group had exetremely high dps compared to most people who go there. You guys severly overgeared the place, the mobs died as if it was on normal almost. If you did that stuff in the groups i seen it wouldnt have been a smoother run. Especially on the LK chase, you were quite far forward, on a low dps group that would have meant lK would have caught up. I seen that happen a few times where the caster is stuck and wont move even though I kicked his cast( i play rogue now), and is in the LK aoe, causing wipe as the ranged dps in my groups usually can only do about 2.5k dps.

Playing dps nopw i get to see many different ways of doing Hhor, and tbh the best way still is the los way tbh, no matter what. I had a 6ok ICC hard mode geared tank onc ein my group , but the healer was all in blues and i was the highest dps in group ( with my ilevel 200 gear :P). He ofc tried doing the altar way as that was what worked for him in the past with his overgeared dps from his guild. we wiped on 3rd pack, when healer was isntantly gibbed by something and the dps ran around like headless chickens. He gave in on the next go and we did los way, having no further issues later on.

As a a rogue i can tricks the tank and then fan of knives the mobs as they come past, making it easy mode. So if theres a rogue in your group make use of him:P

Athinira
03-30-2010, 09:35 AM
In the doorway you can keep your ranged at range and you can actually see when something is headed their way. I only worry about the healers.

Just wanted to note that if you have problems noticing when you lose agro, you can solve it by getting Tidyplates Threatplates. It makes your nameplates change on mobs that you lose agro on, making it easy to see whenever a mob is heading off to someone.

I use it in the video. Try to notice the difference between when i have agro and when i don't. The plates can also be reversed for DPS/healing purposes, meaning that they turn big with spikes whenever you grab agro rather than when you don't.


However your group had exetremely high dps compared to most people who go there. You guys severly overgeared the place, the mobs died as if it was on normal almost.

Actually only the mage did truly high DPS. Both the druid and the lock were below 5k gearscore and didn't do extraordinary DPS. In fact, they only just about passed me as tank.

It's true the mage had insane single target DPS and we're able to take down mobs quickly, but you're overestimating how much we overgeared the place. Part of the reason it went so well is that the tactic used is so good if executed right.


Playing dps nopw i get to see many different ways of doing Hhor, and tbh the best way still is the los way tbh, no matter what. I had a 6ok ICC hard mode geared tank onc ein my group , but the healer was all in blues and i was the highest dps in group ( with my ilevel 200 gear :P). He ofc tried doing the altar way as that was what worked for him in the past with his overgeared dps from his guild. we wiped on 3rd pack, when healer was isntantly gibbed by something and the dps ran around like headless chickens. He gave in on the next go and we did los way, having no further issues later on.

Just because the tank you had failed doesn't mean the LoS way is the best.

Yes if you have a ICC hard mode geared tank, then the LoS way is good, especially if it is a paladin or a DK. For lesser geared tanks, it's not so good. Of course, a rogue using TotT like you do is going to make it better.

Chamenas
03-30-2010, 09:51 AM
It's a good guide. Just remember that not all of us tanks have the mobility and threat-drop abilities like you do! Being able to get prox aggro is huge, and having the healer out of LoS of the mobs so that the ranges ones run up is fairly important. That being said, the alcove strategy only works if you mostly remain with everyone else. Running out of LoS of the healer forces them to go in LoS and defeats the purpose. Additionally, most healers end up becoming stupid or something and won't LoS the mobs, and will just stand behind you, get aggro, and do nothing about it.

I was on my Paladin healing a feral tank and I took the extra second to run out of LoS of ranged, it made a world of a difference and the run was flawless.

Chamenas
03-30-2010, 09:53 AM
Using the corner at all gives the healer LOS issues, including the "using los to help get mobs over to one side" method.

Not at all, unless you have people being stupid, this is just wrong. If the healer is up against the side wall, you should never be out of LoS unless you choose to run to the mob on the side of the room that is associated with the side of the wall the healer is on, which defeats the purpose of using the "LoS" method in the first place.

Eisen
03-30-2010, 11:52 AM
Here is the be all, end all, awesomest answer ever to the question of "Do I LoS in the corners or not?"

Q: Is your group competent, willing to use CC, capable of focus firing on targets in a priority order without being told every 2 seconds, and unlikely to do dumb things like run away from a tank if they get aggro?

A: Then feel free to tank in the middle.

Now, most pugs fail so miserably at those requirements that LoS is almost required with a pug. But I've tanked it both ways and found either one can work if people play smart. The LoS method is easier on atnks stress levels, but tends to be hell for healers.

jafager
03-30-2010, 04:39 PM
If you can retrain four randoms to deal with a strategy that most of them have never seen, God bless you. I tanked in the center until everybody else got stuck on the alcoves, and then I gave up trying to be different.

Ultimately the strategy is simple. Lock down the melee and don't let them gib you if you get two or three on you at once. Let the pew-pew guys deal with the rest of them -- a mage is just food for a hungry enhancement shaman or fury warrior.

The major benefit to the alcove is that it guarantees that you will be between the mobs and your squishies. If you try to play in wide-open spaces (including the doorway), you will have your more mentally-challenged teammates running around looting or just acting like spastic idiots when the next wave spawns, and they will get themselves gibbed. You can go out in the room after the mobs spawn, if you want, but let that back-to-the-alcove instinct work for you.

Arikak
03-30-2010, 05:07 PM
This is simply untrue. I have tanked it with my DK, Paladin and Warrior and though IMO the warrior is the most fun to tank HoR with, your statement is flat out false as ive tanked that instance from "any position in the room" with my other 2 tanks with no issues whatsoever.

*Can't* is definitely a strong word on my part, though I do caveat it immediately after. Death grip is a powerful tool for a DK but I'm just not seeing how a Paladin can ensure a safe wave for their squishy teammates tanking out in the middle.

Krays
03-31-2010, 03:51 AM
yeh thats the one of the huge problems with Hroh, the mobs drop random epic loot, and battered hilt so everyone is gonna be focused on looting that shit, unless know one needs anything but the frosties. There is barely enough time to loot when all the mobs died in once place let alone all over the room :P (they might spawn away if you wait till later:P). Think theres a way to let you roll on epics without looting, but forgotten how now.

Blue
03-31-2010, 12:11 PM
Having healed this a few times, now, on Disc Priest, I must say that when I see a tank stay in the doorway, I breathe a sigh of relief...for at least two reasons: It's what I would do, if I were tanking it, on my Warrior, and I can actually see things, and move more freely, if I need to. The only drawback is, if the tank decides to wander too far away, in chase of a mob. Fortunately, I will usually have a shield bubble up, and Prayer of Mending, on them, giving them some time to "go wild".

I can also more easily throw a silence on a caster, or shackle a mob, and have it possibly last longer than 1 second, before being broken.

In the alcove, I start with LOS, after shielding and POMing tank...then I will run to back wall, and over to opposite wall, once the fight is joined. I can then see when a mob is coming for me, and use Fade, or kite to the tank...and, I love to Penance the daylights out of the Rogue mob-- the shifty git!

I'm not sure if I'd want to stand on top of the fountain, as healer, though...unless I knew the tank, really well! I don't like the idea of being a pinata!

;>)

Heisenberg
04-08-2010, 03:51 AM
Looks like a fun, if masochist way of doing things.

Use LoS for the first 5 seconds of the fight, start next to one of the mobs that spawns just left of right of the alcove, slam them, charge another, one quick tclap and you have all the mobs on you.

Tank out in the open between the throne and the alcove. Any far-off mobs will run through you to get to the healer, you have loads of room and none of the aoes will hit the ranged/healer in the alcove.

Tanking in the middle is possible, of course, but inefficient and more likely to go wrong.

woodyman
04-08-2010, 04:03 AM
i think the doorway offers the best of both worlds u can partially los the mage and the hunter. there is more room for everyone to see what they are doing. an any mob that wants to go for your healer still has to come through you.

Athinira
04-12-2010, 05:34 AM
Tanking in the middle is possible, of course, but inefficient and more likely to go wrong.

I'm sorry, but this is simply untrue. Tanking in the middle has proved the absolutely most reliable strategy for me as a Warrior, and I've tried em all (for Druid, the main door is generally the best strategy).

I recently expanded a bit and tried out to see how the "Shout to get agro" method would work when tanking in the middle, and it worked so well for me that it's now part of my standard repetoire. I just had a run in HoR on my warrior using that, and it was by far the smoothest i have done yet. The healer had 0 damage taken according to Recount on the waves themself (only taking damage from the two first bosses).

Satrina
04-12-2010, 06:39 AM
OP: Nice work, always good to see people making an effort to help others! Now, please read [url=http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?46395-Posting-Chat-Rules-READ-ME-BEFORE-POSTING]Posting & Chat rules, and post in the correct forum next time. Thanks!

Flexthetroll
04-14-2010, 11:58 PM
In my opinion, it's a terrible tactic, especially if the group is undergeared. First of all, it should be mentioned that before my prot warrior in the video hit 80, i tanked the instance on my Feral Druid, as well as i healed the instance on my Druid with all tank classes. I've tried all tactics, and i initially also started out with the hiding tactic, but found it has some problems:

1) First, if the healer (and the rest of the group) has to LoS the mobs, and if the tank has to go out and pick up a mob, then he will also be LoS'ing the healer. I've seen quite a few tanks do that on me and die because i couldn't get into LoS and heal them fast enough when the huntermob has dropped a Frost Trap right where the group is. I've also died myself a few times charging out.

2) When you are gathering all the mobs up like that, the group is going to take more AOE damage from the priests Circle of Destruction (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=72323) and the mages Flamestrikes.

3) If you don't have a persistent AOE (Consecration or Death of Decay), there is always going to be a chance that the mobs pass by you before you can hit them and gib someone (most likely the healer)

5) Makes CC impractical if you decide to use it

5) Finally and most importantly: When you are gathering up all the mobs, you will be taking more damage as a tank. This is especially a problem when the tank and healer is undergeared. If you use the tactic above (or the tactic where you stand at the front door), then you can Charge, Intercept, Intervene or Feral Charge around, and therefore make the melee mobs chase you, giving your healer breathing room.

I have another video on Youtube where i tanked the instance using the front door tactic. This was part of a bet where i had to lower my gearlevel to 4k Gearscore (unequipped both rings and one trinket) and not use Intercept, Intervene or Heroic Throw on my warrior, as well as no CC. Tanking the instance in the Alcove would probably have been impossible with those restrictions. You can watch the video here: HC HoR Doorway Strategy - 4k GS prot war (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0arZwCeR2M&hd=1)


My suggestion is to stay away from the Alcove tactic if you play a Druid or a Warrior, and only use it as DK/Paladin. I found that using the Doorway strat works best as a druid, and Altar tac works best as a war.


I agree with the flaws in the los tactic. The tactic that is shown in your video is a very interesting way to do this fight, sadly for puging this instance this would not work. I am sure like most guilds there are members of the guild that will just not do this instance so in order to do it I have to pug it. Unless you get that 1% pro group it would be hard to get a pug to perform this, half the time I can’t even get pug dps to interrupt. Good video, the start is very interesting.

Athinira
04-19-2010, 01:23 AM
I agree with the flaws in the los tactic. The tactic that is shown in your video is a very interesting way to do this fight, sadly for puging this instance this would not work. I am sure like most guilds there are members of the guild that will just not do this instance so in order to do it I have to pug it. Unless you get that 1% pro group it would be hard to get a pug to perform this, half the time I can’t even get pug dps to interrupt. Good video, the start is very interesting.

I honestly have to ask if you are kidding here.

ALL 5 mans i do is with pugs. I have never done HoR in an "arranged" run with people i know (with the exception of farming the Shield in normal mode). I have run the instance countless of times by now on Heroic mode with group members of various gear levels (including groups that only just about met the minimum requirements for doing the instance).

I simply can't understand how you can conclude that this tactic would not work in a PuG when it not only has worked for me more times than i can remember, but has worked BETTER than the others. I won't call you bad, but are you sure this isn't a skill issue on your end? :)

Feldheld
04-25-2010, 12:04 PM
I made the same experience as Flexthetroll on my realmpool. People are stubbornly sticking to the LoS tactic, although they never do even that tactic properly. I never even managed to get the team to support one kill order. Actually, whenever I tried to give tactical orders or discuss tactics, people just went "stfu" "gogogo" etc.. Thats why I just leave nowadays when the tool puts me into HoR.

Triskell
05-14-2010, 05:54 AM
So completed H HOR for the first time last night. Have done reg version a few times using LOS strat in alcove (would rather fight mobs than group), but have consistently wiped on the herioc version everytime attempted.

Well last night got a group where 2 of the persons wanted to do it in the entrance hall. Was a DREAM!!!! I will admit I am not the best tank in the game, not even close, but can hold my own pretty well. At least as a warrior, this is SO MUCH EASIER than the LOS alcove crap.

You can see everything, you can move around and use your warrior movement abilities, charge, intercept, intervene, your can Heroic throw caster, cause you can see them. PLUS your group is not all clustered together for the AOE of mobs to hit them all.

Is it lost on everyone that tanks usually try to group the mobs, not only to help keep aggro on all of them, but also so that party AOE can hit the max # of mobs for max amount of damage? So why would you want your group all clustered in the alcove waiting for mob aoe to hit?

Will admit we had a well geared pug, but even still, everyone was very happy with result, and it was som much better doing this in the open, than staring at a wall in the alcove, and having terrible camera angles, and not seeing everyone.

Just my 2 cents