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View Full Version : Warrior What are you sacrificing for Imp Revenge? 3.3.3



Odegar
03-22-2010, 07:56 AM
The most viable options I see are:

Improved Disciplines - 1 point in this would be kind of lame, I'd remove both if you do this. Probably going to want for LK or Algalon.

Deep Wounds - I think this would be a decent choice for my setup. If you have a 1.8 weapon or slower, it's iffy, but with a 1.5 speed like mine, 16% weapon damage on crits may not be a huge deal (maybe it is, that's why I'm posting here).

Sheild Specialization - A lot of tanks run 2 points in this already. This will be the most popular one to take out of, for those who have not already. I personally dislike not having 5/5 in this talent, but I think the new Revenge will alleviate that to some extent. Avoid Violet Hold if you go 2/5 :P. I will probably be going 4/5. 3/5 for LK with 2 in imp disc and 2/3 deep wounds.

These are all standard 'Impale - Deep Wounds' specs. Feel free to talk about what your thoughts are on a 3.3.3 avoidance spec (you freaks, lol).

Glyph discussion is also welcome. I'll be running Taunt, Blocking, and Vigilance.

Edit: I forgot Focused Rage. That looks like my favorite to drop a point from. Thanks for posting trees and reminding me :D

MellvarTank
03-22-2010, 08:20 AM
I didn't bother changing my spec out of imp. revenge to save on gold costs.. that and I didn't need improved spell reflect right now.... so nothing? :)

Inaara
03-22-2010, 11:08 AM
I'll only be changing my threat spec to include it since it's the same spec I use for AoE tanking and heroics. http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LAM00fZhZVItrx0zidfzsGo

Kavaren
03-22-2010, 11:23 AM
Just Safeguard - which was the best choice when Revenge got bad. I will miss it however: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LAM00fZhZVItrx0didczsGo

I will still have it in my off-spec:http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LVZGV0oZVItrx0didcdsGo

Odegar
03-22-2010, 12:25 PM
Thanks for posting trees. I'm liking your spec Inaara, thanks for remining me of Focused Rage. That's why I came here :P

Kazeyonoma
03-22-2010, 01:07 PM
i've always kept it in my spec soo.... rofl no change i guess =P

Raysere
03-22-2010, 01:38 PM
I took the points out of it and put them into Shield Spec, they'll simply swap back again.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LVMh0fZhZMItrx0didIzsGo

Brage
03-22-2010, 01:43 PM
I'm leaning towards taking 2 points out of shield specialization - i got a feeling using revenge every 5th second for 2 rage will net me more rage than the last 2 points in shield spec anyway since its a devastate that's being replaced. But after having gotten 4p t10 bonus and Pillars of might, imp. diciplines might not be needed, so perhaps taking the points out of that instead, but keeping the glyph.

Aggathon
03-22-2010, 01:46 PM
I'll take out the 2 points I put in puncture... if I ever decide to log in.

Edit: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LAM00fZhZMItrx0didIzsGo

I pref focused rage >> shield spec, however some disagree, I think it's up to personal preference. But if you want 5/5 shield spec focused rage is where you take the points.

krc
03-22-2010, 02:44 PM
I will be most likely be moving points out of Shield Spec to Improved Revenge once the patch hits. The one thing debatable for me is that Improved Spell Reflect might be a better option than Shield Spec. With Shield Spec I get 2% block and 2 more rage on avoid/block, with Improved Spell Reflect I get 4% chance for spells to miss me and the extra utility with reflecting a spell from your party member. I think overall on most fights I am going to get more overall survival with Spell Reflect and reflecting a spell from your party member can be useful at times while an extra 2 rage on avoid is quite minor.

Agmar
03-22-2010, 03:36 PM
I'll take the two points back out of focused rage that I put there when I started spamming devastate. I might swap out glyph of devastate too, although it's pretty much my favorite glyph...

gom
03-22-2010, 04:00 PM
I'll take the two points back out of focused rage that I put there when I started spamming devastate. I might swap out glyph of devastate too, although it's pretty much my favorite glyph...

If you had it you never want to miss it. Putting up 5 sunders feels like an enternity.

@topic

I'm going to sacrafice also improved disciplines since I have it in my other spec with the glyph. And without the glyph improved disciplines doesn't make much sense to me. 4 or 5 min. doesn't really matter since I save it for the really big "OH shit" moment. And if the encounter needs cooldowns more frequently I switch to my other talent tree.

Odegar
03-22-2010, 07:01 PM
Yea... It would take you about 3 seconds of SS+devastate+light HS (until you have more rage) to save 5 points of rage. How long would it take to dodge/block/parry 5 attacks and thus, on average, generate 5 points of rage? And yet the GUARANTEE of having avoidance rage generation early in a fight is very important, because rage fail is not fun.

Shield specialization is the clear winner for mass trash, which is where warriors struggle a bit. But they dont' struggle because of rage starvation.

I will likely do 4/5 shield spec.

Aggathon
03-22-2010, 09:34 PM
each dodge/block/parry is 5 rage, might want to read the tooltip again.

Brage
03-23-2010, 04:46 AM
The 5th point in shield specialization is the gamebreaker though. It's that last point that guaranties your rage income on those situations whereas 1-4points could theoretically result in 0 rage gain for a while. I find it abit hard to lose that last point :(

The way i see it is comparing 1 devastate to 1 revenge, seing as devastate is probably the attack being replaced every 5th second.
w. Focused rage: Devastate = 12rage costs, Revenge = 2 rage cost. Result is a 10 rage "gain" every 5th second or in other words, 2rage/sec.

Now that is a pretty big rage "discount" so naturally a clever area in which to save those 2 talent points would be somewhere that lowers rage costs/increases rage gain. But taking them out of shield spec might prove too big of a rage loss since you lose your "guarantie". The closest alternative would be focused rage but seing as that talent effects every offensive abillity it would easilly be too big of a rage loss. What's left - for me atleast - is imp. diciplines. I don't think it will matter much if my SW is on a 2 or 3 min CD, not with a 4set bonus on a 1min CD.

Odegar
03-23-2010, 05:53 AM
I know it's 5 points per, but I said block/dodge/parry 5 times because I'd be losing 20% in it, making it, on average, effect 1/5 of your dodge/blocks/parries.

Crommi
03-23-2010, 06:45 AM
Just going to drop two points out of Shield Spec for Imp. Revenge, been running with 0 points in Focused Range and haven't had any problems. Tomorrow's spec with Deep Wounds, Imp. Disciplines and Safeguard: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LA0b0fZhZcItrx0didcdsGo

Zaitochi
03-23-2010, 06:51 AM
I'm actually not sure in my current spec I do not have focused rage, since I get instant rage when I get hit in ICC, I might drop imp disciplines but a 2 min shield wall is really nice. Perhaps taking 2 points outta Shield Spec might work...

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#Li0h0fZhZVItrx0didczsGo:dcTom0

I think this will be my spec for raiding, minor glyphs of course can be changed around.

Dreadski
03-23-2010, 07:22 AM
I put them back in as soon as the patch notes leaked. Wasn't a huge difference either way.

Malatank
03-23-2010, 08:21 AM
I never switched specs or stopped using revenge, even knowing that it wasn't "the big deal" anymore. A few rage for enough pewpew? Bring it on.

With the buff it just got better. When I wasn't raiding, I didn't spec Improved Disciplines, put 5/5 Shield Spec and 2/3 Focused Rage. Now that I'm back at raiding, 5/5 Shield Spec, 2/2 Improved Disciplines and 0/3 Focused Rage. For some reason I feel that 5/5 Shield Spec is better than 2/5 Shield Spec + 3/3 Focused Rage. Not because of rage, but because of the extra block chance that Shield Spec brings. I may be wrong of course, but it's working for now, even though I have to keep a close eye on my rage as it's spikey as hell.

Zaitochi
03-23-2010, 12:16 PM
I never switched specs or stopped using revenge, even knowing that it wasn't "the big deal" anymore. A few rage for enough pewpew? Bring it on.

With the buff it just got better. When I wasn't raiding, I didn't spec Improved Disciplines, put 5/5 Shield Spec and 2/3 Focused Rage. Now that I'm back at raiding, 5/5 Shield Spec, 2/2 Improved Disciplines and 0/3 Focused Rage. For some reason I feel that 5/5 Shield Spec is better than 2/5 Shield Spec + 3/3 Focused Rage. Not because of rage, but because of the extra block chance that Shield Spec brings. I may be wrong of course, but it's working for now, even though I have to keep a close eye on my rage as it's spikey as hell.

That's one thing I noticed when I dropped the 2/3 focused rage, I find myself often starved for rage then it spikes to 85+ easily, it gets harder to manage on some boss fights like VDW where I find myself with less than 30 rage all the time.

Mačl
03-24-2010, 04:07 AM
I never ran without 5/5 shield and 3/3 focused rage.
But I do wonder about deep wounds. I might move my points out of that. It's not crucial.

Glaive
03-24-2010, 04:47 AM
Ive been running this spec (http://eu.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=1&tal=3502000023000000000000000000000300000000000000 000000000000043351225000012521330113321) all the time, never had issues with shield wall, or survivability.
Granted SW/LS are my absolute "oh crap!!" buttons.

If I need to use them both at once something has seriously gone wrong.

I may at times pop SW at the start of a fairly large trash pull, or if we spring a trap on ICC on the way to Marrowgar so I can pull the watcher to a safe zone ( when I go as OT ), but Imp. Rev. has allways been there, and I admit I use revenge a lot, for no particular reason, it just... makes sense to use as a tank...

Then again, Im Arms as Offspec PVE DPS, so what makes sense to me might be odd to most.... :p:D