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Sunscar
03-18-2010, 11:16 PM
I have a general and a specific question that I'm hoping the community can help me out with.

1. Can we rank the trinkets that are currently available to tanks in order of usefulness? I understand that it's somewhat situational, but with the theory that mitigation and EH takes precedence we ought to be able to come up with something.

2. Glyph of Indomitability vs. the Brewfest Trinkets. Which is better for a warrior (or paladin) tank in 3.3?

Bodasafa
03-18-2010, 11:26 PM
Because they are situational it is very hard to "rate" them.

Best you can do is follow a general rule of thumb.

If your are taking mostly physical damage use your best Armor+ Stamina combo.

If you are taking mostly magic damage use your best Stamina + Stamina combo.

Prinnyraid
03-19-2010, 01:55 AM
Cant you just calculate how much armor reduct % the trinket gives and how that comes out in effective health? and then compare that too the HP the brewfest trinket gives?

Thebrain
03-19-2010, 03:18 AM
Don't think it's that easy. If you take physical damage that you can survive comfortably I'd say armor is "better" because it's really reducing incoming damage (which means less stress on the healers).

Bodasafa
03-19-2010, 08:01 AM
Cant you just calculate how much armor reduct % the trinket gives and how that comes out in effective health? and then compare that too the HP the brewfest trinket gives?

You can but its on a case by case basis. As in you can't just have a list of the best trinkets out there and then rate them, because depending on what fight your doing and the rest of your gear it would change.

MellvarTank
03-19-2010, 08:13 AM
If your are taking mostly physical damage use your best Armor+ Stamina combo.

If you are taking mostly magic damage use your best Stamina + Stamina combo.

I would also say the brewfest trinkets are crap. They don't give you anything but stamina, whereas the Corroded Skeleton Key and the Black Heart both give you something useful.... although the black heart won't do much for magic damage. There is also Jugg's Vitality, Heart of Iron, etc.

Really, you should be able to get a stam trinket that is useful (like the skeleton key/jugg's vitality) without too much trouble so you can give up the brewfest trinkets.

Stompya
03-19-2010, 10:46 AM
black heart > brewfest trinkets

For the armor trinket, a good rule of thumb is go for it if you are over 40k unbuffed, if you are under then stamina is better for you in that slot

Aggathon
03-19-2010, 12:42 PM
how I rank trinkets:
H-Jug's Vit
H-Unidentifiable Organ (this is close to Jug's Vit but I find the uptime of the stacks to be too unreliable)
The Skeleton Key
N-Unidentifiable Organ
N-Jug's Vit (switch this with glyph of indom if you are using H-Jug's Vit though)
Glyph of Indominability
Heart of Iron
The Black Heart
Brewfest Trinkets.


The reason why I rate Jug's Vit so high is because the marginal strat up EHP gain of the other trinkets isn't THAT huge, it won't be gamebreaking, but the extra cooldown might be. Jug's Vit's on use can be game breaking though, it is a mini last stand that is a ton of HPS. It's a very reliable cooldown in and of itself and is the best "oh shit" button that any trinket in the game can give you.

As far as "absorbing vs. raw EHP" yes to an extent that is absolutely true that absorbing is better than raw HPS, but go look at some overhealing meters. Unless your healers are having a really hard time keeping you up and you have really low armor, then a trinket that provides more EHP in stam will still provide better marginal survivability than an armor trinket that provides less EHP. I am an advocate of plugging in the armor numbers into an EHP calculator and seeing which one gives you more EHP, there ARE inflection points where (for example) heart of iron is better than glyph of indominability, but when you get to X amount of HP (I think it's like 42k or something) then glyph of indominability becomes better.

I'm still a proponent of whichever gives you more EHP, be it armor or stam, but like other people have said, your trinket choice can (and should) vary based upon your gear setup and other trinket choices. As you can see even with my list, I give a lot of caveats and would switch the order depending on various circumstances.

drae
03-19-2010, 02:58 PM
Also, with absorbs that's only 6800 damage once. With juggs that 4800 hp can be re-healed tons of times within the up-time of the activation. That 4800 hp can be used 4 or 5 times.

lavbatigol
03-22-2010, 12:30 AM
what about the trinket from sindragosa 25?
is it better from skeleton key or should i get the key?( right now i run with>Unidentifiable Organ+Jug's Vit)

Aggathon
03-22-2010, 10:05 AM
Oh ya, forgot about that one. For fights where magical damage is a problem then it is DEFINITELY better than the skeleton key, but I'd say that the skeleton key would be better for physical fights. It might even be better than Jug's Vit for magic heavy fights. If you don't have a better stam trinket for physical fights then use it, otherwise use it situationally for magic heavy fights.

ironoar
03-22-2010, 10:17 AM
where do u group trinkets that offer dodge or parry over armor or stam? Like the corpse tounge and many ofters in the game. are they trinkets we as tanks should avoid? at least as warrior tanks

Aggathon
03-22-2010, 10:23 AM
I group avoidance trinkets in the "deleted" category, for every class.

Edgewalker
03-22-2010, 11:29 AM
Oh ya, forgot about that one. For fights where magical damage is a problem then it is DEFINITELY better than the skeleton key, but I'd say that the skeleton key would be better for physical fights. It might even be better than Jug's Vit for magic heavy fights. If you don't have a better stam trinket for physical fights then use it, otherwise use it situationally for magic heavy fights.

Ironically it works best from the fight it drops from. :(

Aggathon
03-22-2010, 12:45 PM
Ironically it works best from the fight it drops from. :(

i kno rite?

Kazeyonoma
03-22-2010, 01:04 PM
Ironically it works best from the fight it drops from. :(

Sounds like the defense trinket that dropped off of Hydross to help maintain uncrittability that trinket was awesome...

Bodasafa
03-24-2010, 09:56 AM
I group avoidance trinkets in the "deleted" category, for every class.

I watch Corpse Coin get sharded every time it drops, same with last word.

No one in their right mind is going to spend dkp on that garbage.

Dreadski
03-24-2010, 10:55 AM
I watch Corpse Coin get sharded every time it drops, same with last word.

No one in their right mind is going to spend dkp on that garbage.

Last Word is not garbage. You're talking over 100 stam, and 100 str + 300 extra spellpower for all of your healers. Last Word is OP.

Aggathon
03-24-2010, 11:05 AM
Last Word is not garbage. You're talking over 100 stam, and 100 str + 300 extra spellpower for all of your healers. Last Word is OP.

Actually spellpower is the worst throughput stat for holy paladins, by a significant margin. I'm not sure about the values of other healers but basically my MT healers said that all the 300 SP meant was that they were going to be doing more overhealing. 100str is pretty insignificant too imo (for a tank at least). The 100stam is the only thing it has going for it, so if you have any other weapon > 100 stam, then it's better than last word.

MellvarTank
03-24-2010, 11:17 AM
.... Well I wouldn't say worst.... 300 sp is good for a Flash of Light Holy paladin, but not so much for a Holy Light Paladin. Of course, that is entirely dependant on the rest of the raid make-up/Paladin gear.

Mawini
03-24-2010, 12:15 PM
I prefer to use the Sindragosa 25 trink and the frost emblem trink most of the time. I like having the extra scaling and further buffer on my "cooldown". I'd probably swap the Sindragosa trink for the organ, were I a warrior.

Crommi
03-24-2010, 07:11 PM
One thing to note about Sindragosa's Flawless Fang (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50361), it has only 1min cooldown, which is quite unusual.