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View Full Version : Tanking Glyphed RS vs glyphed FS



Nurasha
03-18-2010, 07:05 AM
As a Frost DW tank spec here (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EoZhxe0A0Ioc0fuzAo0g:ap) I have since I changed to DW been in the dilemma: Should I glyph Frost Strike or Rune Strike?

Glyphing FS gives me more RP, which gives more RS. But glyphing RS gives more TPS per RS.

I have glyphed Disease (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45805) since it lets me use my tanking cooldowns more independently and thus lets my Blood Tap (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=45529) for situational dependencies or just use it for CD ofc. It also fits completely to my tanking style, so I won't change it. Especially not with the t10 4p incoming.

If I lose too much overall RP by reglyphing to RS (FS glyphed atm) I can always put more points in SoB (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=49004) but I'm not sure if that's the most viable choice, since as Frost and Nelf I'm at 12.44% miss, thus only have 13.14% chance of getting the proc (15%*(100%-12.44%)).

Your thougts?

Bashal
03-18-2010, 09:14 AM
When I used to DW frost tank, I had SoB 3/3. It was up almost constantly.

Sorry, that's not very mathy, but it was my observation. :)

Blackemperor
03-18-2010, 11:27 AM
My response is very playstyle specific, but I recommend not glyphing Frost Strike.

From my experience with it all I don't use Frost Strike that often compared to amount of Rune Strikes that pop off.

My frost spec changes week to week (I DW as well) because of imp icy talons being in or not in the raid.

So spec-wise, you could easily get away with yanking points from Killing Machine and throwing them into Chill of the Grave for some extra runic power.

Also, Deathchill is kind of a heated cooldown that I personally have never received mileage worth that single point used. I would throw that into SoB or CotG but if that's your playstyle to use it every cooldown, so be it.

bling581
03-18-2010, 11:32 AM
I'm not an expert by any means on DK tanking, but I would say it depends on what you use the most. I macro RS into several abilities as a Frost tank and still find that I have enough RP to FS during rune CD's. If you're using FS often then perhaps it would be best to glyph for it so you have more RP available for RS.

Dagmarr
03-19-2010, 06:25 PM
I used to have RS macroed to every ability, even DC and FStrike, and I would almost always have a nice cushion of runic power. I personally would go 3.3 SoB and GoFS.

Satorri
03-21-2010, 05:34 AM
I feel like there is an important point to make here regarding this statement:
"Glyphing FS gives me more RP, which gives more RS."

The idea sounds good, but it shouldn't be true. Any tank with less than 70% avoidance should be able to use every reasonably usable RS proc without much RP generating talents. The ones that are not reasonable to use may include procs in the first 3 sec of the fight and/or procs that happen too close in sequence. If your total dodge + parry starts moving into the mid-high 50s or into the 60s, then you will find you actually need to generate RP just to use as many of your RS procs as you can. This is not the product of a simulator or spreadsheet, this is purely from my experimentation with super-high avoidance gearing.

That said, even Frost spec with the delicious FS should never be let FS supplant your ability to use RS. The short way of saying that is to never dump all your RP with FS. Rather you should simply never FS unless you have over 60 RP (52 if you have the glyph). Now, what glyphing FS *should* accomplish is to let you use more FS, which is a good thing because Frost will usually burn through runes 2 at a time leaving a lot of rune blackouts that are nice to fill with FS. The glyph should, without changing anything else, allow you to use 20% more FS (think of it as saving 8 RP per use, 4 FS will get you a 5th you wouldn't have been able to afford without the glyph unless you are soaking in an excess of RP). So, if your standard operation allows you to use FS that much, the glyph would offer essentially a 20% increase in FS dmg/threat. To contrast, RS will offer a 10% increase in RS dmg (10% crit chance with a 200% crit strike dmg becomes a 10% increase in the avg dmg per swing if you average regular hits with crits) and a 17.5% increase in RS threat (threat multiplier). So if you are asking which one will get you the most TPS increase, just take a log and see which move is a higher amount of your threat. If they're right close together it is probably a wash and you can use whichever you like more, but if RS is far enough ahead, it will likely be the stronger TPS glyph.

The fine print is this, in general you're probably looking at a 1-2% swing in threat at the most extreme of cases, and to that end it *shouldn't* be a huge deal if you pick the glyph you enjoy more. I, for one, enjoy that the FS glyph allows me to do more. I like the value of glyphs and talents that reward me for playing better, whereas the passive damage glyphs just reward you for doing what you already do (which may be appealing if you feel like you're already doing enough to keep you busy).


As a side note to Dagmarr, I always avoid macro'ing RS to RP-cost moves to be certain I don't interfere with it's availability. I hit the other buttons plenty, I only hit DC/FS as a conscientious dump to fill rune blackouts and keep from pinning my RP to max.

Nurasha
03-27-2010, 12:54 PM
Thanks for the feedback.

I realize the Deathchill talent seems like a waste. And especially since 3.3.3, it doesn't help at all on boss fights, since the IT buff doesn't make an OB crit critical to holding initial aggro. Still nice for the adds scattered all around ICC (also during the occassional add-boss fight) to glue them with Deathchill-HB, I suppose that's just my playstyle.

Macroing RS into all rune-using abilities is a must especially as a DW since the margin for pressing a different button during rotations is less than with a 4 second 2h swing. Just a side note to what's been replied with in this thread.

What I really like about this game is, like you say, Satorri how you can customize talents and glyphs to fit yourself and especially when one glyph isn't a complete necessity like a HoB glyph for an assassin rogue is and they therefore can customize one's gameplay. I also realize I didn't count in for the actual RS proc averages due to gear - which must be of major importance. If you say you've experienced with avoidance and RP generation I trust you. I will, however, test out what the differences are between a RS and FS glyph TPS-wise. Expect some results from me ASAP when I've had the opportunity to have similar environments for the two different glyphs to have only the glyph factor change.

Satorri
03-28-2010, 06:23 AM
I also missed something on my first read through your post. Don't worry about miss chance detracting from SoB proc chance. It'll be up plenty anyway.

Something that occured to me recently, 2 points in SoB would be essentially a guarantee that you can cancel out your RS costs and leave your RP for your RP dump, in a perfect world where stacks are never wasted. That's because it would give you two stacks at 10 RP each every time you dodged or parried (same trigger for RS procs). Then when you factor in the procs off being hit...

Not really meaningful or super important, but it is a way I hadn't looked at it before.