View Full Version : Saurfang 25H - BoP first Blood Boils?
03-17-2010, 03:32 AM
I've read all the posts that I can find in this section, some of which are outdated. My question is: Is BoP'ing (Hands of Protection now) the first set of set of Blooding Blood slow down the first mark of the fallen champion going out?
Typically if you follow this chart:
Boiling Blood: 1BP per tick
Blood Nova: 2BP per person
Rune of Blood: 1BP per hit on target
Blood Beasts: 1BP per hit
MotFC: 1BP per hit, per person with Mark
The more time you spent w/o getting the first mark the number of BP will grow at a slower rate which then leads to fewer marks throughout the fight. Can anyone confirm this?
03-17-2010, 03:41 AM
Well we usually run with a lot of pallies, so we use that strat for normal mode works quite well. Mages can iceblock out of it a well.
03-17-2010, 04:48 AM
On 10 heroic we usually do it when he's enraging at 80-90 blood power, since that's where its actually dangerous, obv 25man might be different.
03-17-2010, 04:51 AM
Wouldn't that mean that you are effectively keeping him in that 80-90 range for longer? In 10 man, we bop (hop?) the early boils and it seems effective at slowing down his rate of growth.
03-17-2010, 03:00 PM
Your talking heroic...those values are much higher for some things.
#1 - MOTFC does not give him any additional BP
#2 - Beasts give 5 BP per melee hit (basically someone will most likely die too)
#3 - RoB gives 3 BP per hit.
Now to answer your question.
Yes, the first set of bloods that go out, you want to get them off ASAP within 1 second. If you can get all 3 of them off instantly you will gain roughly 20 seconds on the timespan on the encounter. After that point on you do not want to get rid of boiling bloods as any CD's that would remove the bloods you will want to save for marks.
You will get 6 marks, you must plan for this.
We generally hit soft enrage with 4 marks at 80-90 BP, he will the put out the 5th mark, by 15-20% he's at 60-70 BP again and thats when you want the BOPS going off. Puts up 6th mark around 8-10% and then you go for broke ;)
The biggest mistake people make is not understanding that more BP = higher mark damage and that during soft enrage, each mark will require 1 healer and that means that the healer must ONLY heal that person (they are taking 10k dps) and the tanks are taking roughly 20kdps. It's alright to have people that arnt marked die from dots/nova, your job is to keep your marks up and you'll be fine.
03-24-2010, 09:47 AM
My guild had many 2-3% wipes... one dead mark and it's over. We usually get to 15% when the 5th mark goes out ... then 10-20 secs later 6th mark it's crazy fast at the end. Does anyone know if DI'ing the first person who gets the mark will help?
03-24-2010, 11:43 AM
Yes as far as I know (but we never had the pallies to try)
Obviously it would work with ret pallies as your holy pallies are heavily beneficial in that fight.
04-23-2010, 06:53 AM
we do the DI in our 25 man, it works wonders, and i would suggest it, take 2-3 ret pallys, and have them DI the marked targets, it will actually make ur life easy, u may only get 3 marks then, thus saving u from having to deal with marks much, if at all.
04-23-2010, 11:26 AM
since MotFC no longer gives boss BP the value of using divine intervention on a marked target has been almost removed completely. He will still gain BP at the same rate with or without the di, so ur still likely to see 5-6 total marks during the course of the fight. Using di will result in 1 pally dieing and 1 member being inactive for the duration of the di, and u will benefit from not having to heal that 1 mark. Early on in the fight its very easy to heal so I don't see why you would DI a marked target.
Hand of protection, bubble and iceblock targets with boiling blood is an effective way to give the raid more time to kill the boss. You essentianlly push back the time at which all subsequent marks are put out. Paladins can bop only casters, or if melee want to be bop'd follow it up with hand of freedom, or have melee make /cancelaura macros, mages should also /cancelaura iceblock to resume fighting immediately.
One other quick tip for this fight is for tanks to glyph taunt. Missing taunts result in BP gain, boss healing, healers anticipating tank switch r now healing wrong tank.
Does anyone know how boiling blood ticks work with absorbs from power word:shield? One guy in my guild says its glitched and gives the boss more BP than normal if u absorb a tick, but I've also heard the opposite.
04-24-2010, 03:50 AM
Bugs fixed, he gets about 2 runic power per tick of blood boil and per hit/splash of blood nova.
04-25-2010, 03:12 PM
You should absolutely use Hand of Protection on the first wave of Blood Boils, as it buys you a good 15-20 seconds of time on the enrage and marks. We've run with anywhere from 3-5 paladins, and we have each of them use Hand of Protection during the first waves. The important thing is to make sure that whoever is using Hand of Protection beats the first tick. It's not worth casting if you're going to miss the first tick - just wait for the next wave.
Using DI is completely unnecessary, and we've never used it in our kills. However, it is an interesting strategy that you could consider towards the end. Mark of the Fallen Champion does not give Saurfang any extra Blood Power, so the "rate" for how marks go out is generally constant and not exponential as it was in its first iteration. The only case you could/should use DI is to get ease off healers. If you're getting to 7 marks, DI'ing might be the only way to get the encounter down. Obviously, you would also be required to have a Ret Paladin, as losing a prot paladin or holy paladin really isn't feasible in the encounter.
My guild's strategy is this:
- Tanks should be using avoidance. Death Knights are the best tanks here. Get 2 avoidance trinkets. Effective health means very little, especially with how fast he skips over the 70-100 BP range.
- Paladins at the start get assigned a group to BoP. We usually try to make sure that paladins and mages are somewhat in the same group so we can "skip" that group (they bubble/ice block). They try to BoP the first or second wave of Blood Boils.
- We use Shadowfury to stun all the adds. When the stun has about .5 seconds left, a boomkin uses Typhoon to knock them all back. We assign 2-3 ranged on each Blood Beasts with a few melee killing one. They simply have to target the correct one before the knockback. We do NOT use traps or any other form of slow, as it's usually a waste of movement. Typhoon + Shadowfury is always enough for us.
- We have a Holy Paladin get the first mark, another Holy Paladin or Holy Priest get the 2nd, Holy Priest gets the 3rd, Resto Shaman gets the 4th, the first Holy Paladin beacons the 5th, and he's generally dead just after throwing out the 6th. We have a disc priest heal the tanks and resto druid heal the raid.
- Make sure that EVERYONE is using a defensive cooldown when BP starts getting high. Save cooldowns later for Warlocks switch to demon armor (or soul link if they're the demonology warlock). Druids barkskin. Priests dispersion. Rogues feint. Warriors shield wall. The list keeps going. When we were first learning the fight, we had everyone switch to a tank flask if they got the mark, as most times marked targets die with only 1k overkill. We toss out things like Pain Suppression on the marked people at the end.