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View Full Version : Warrior Prot Warrior Glyph Revisit - Blocking



cfruendt
03-15-2010, 09:09 AM
I'm trying to figure out what I'm missing, as this seems to be unanimously the "best" prot warrior glyph, and I've been using it since it came out, but I found myself wondering the other day why that would be in the case of raid boss fights, and I've not seen anyone explain why it's so hot here, or on MMO, or on wowhead...

Thoughts -

as to why it's not so hot on harder hitting boss fights...(thinking Marrowgar, certain parts of fester)...you're looking at hits of 8-17k. For such fights, I'm not wearing gear oriented towards block, and have about 1600 BV. +10% of that is 160 block value as extra mitigation...that won't save me on a boss fight big hit, and it's basically too small for a healer to notice and save their mana. Nor does it generate that much extra threat via damage done with Damage Shield (20% of your block value for me is 320 dmg...32 more not going to make much difference). 10% extra dmg on the Shield slam is nice, true...but...

if you want more threat, Glyph of Vigilance seems a better way to go, perhaps even Glyph of Devastate for initial threat

if you want more mitigation, Glyph of Last Stand/Glyph of Shield Wall seem better. Allows you to use them more proactively, not just in an "oh crap" situation, and ease it for your healers.

Thoughts? Feel like I must be missing something as this seems to be against the common wisdom, and wow popular shows Glyph of Blocking as by far the most popular prot war glyph. FYI, I'm generally someone who switches glyphs for different situations (e.g, adding Glyph of Cleaving for 5 mans / trash & Blocking makes sense in that situation, but swapping from Cleave to Last Stand or Shield Wall for bosses).

Reason am asking this, is I'm considering for boss fights going from current Blocking/Vigilance/Last Stand to Vigilance/Last Stand/Shield Wall.

Daavos
03-15-2010, 09:20 AM
I go with Last Stand, Devesate, and Revenge. But that's me.

Vigilance - I question the value of the talent itself let alone the glyph. Do you really need that extra threat?

Shield Wall - I find most fights are over in 5 minutes or less, I only need this once during tricky fights. I also don't like the damage reduction fro 60% to 40%

Kazeyonoma
03-15-2010, 09:41 AM
last stand, shield wall, devastate for me. 2 minute cooldowns are awesome, especially on fights where you will chain them, or you want to help relieve your healers stress as much as possible. Blocking hasn't been an ideal tanking glyph since they first put in the shield slam damage cap.

Raysere
03-15-2010, 10:01 AM
Dev/SW/(Vigi/Taunt)

Considering going Last Stand over Vigi as I'm happy with my threat after getting my new mace. It's always Last Stand I find myself wishing was up more often anyway.

Long story short, carry a few of any glyph that might be useful, and swap on a per-fight basis. Find a scribe to make you loads of each, they are very cheap to make.

Darwar
03-15-2010, 12:04 PM
Here are my recommendations on the glyphs in order of importance.
1. Taunt
Can you afford the 5 to 10% chance to miss a taunt. Some times you can't afford to miss any taunts.
2. Last Stance
3. Shield Wall
Most of the time I do not need last stance nor shield wall but when I need them I'm glad I had them glyphed. Remember a dead tank generates 0 threat.
4. Devastate
It's good for threat sensitive fights where you need to sustain high threat. Becareful, you might generate more threat than the other tanks.
5. Blocking
Ok benefits on all fights. Good for 5 man instances.
6. Vigilance
Good for aoe fights but you have to put vigilance on the person with the highest threat. Will you be able to do that? Glyph of devastate or sunder would probably be better.
7. Revenge
If you manage your rage correctly, you would not need this glypth.

If you take into consideration all the other glyphs, Blocking and Vigilance aren't that great.

Raysere
03-15-2010, 01:23 PM
I'm guilty of not reading the actual topic of discussion before writing my last post. My thoughts on glyph of Blocking are that it has been well and truly superseded by other choices we have available. It is by no means 'the best' or mandatory in the slightest, It may have been in Naxx, but back then we had less glyphs to choose from and boss damage was comparatively very mild.

- Tier 10 gear has little to no extra block value present other then that which we gain from Strength.
- The unbuffed block value gain from Glyph of Blocking for me would be 137. The T9 helm I have sitting in my bank has more BV than that, my old T7 helm has 129 BV. That's not much.
- That much BV would not be a desirable stat on gear, why would it be desirable from a glyph slot?
- I expect that the threat gain from GoBlocking would be marginal in comparison to GoDevastate. Would using it be a better solution to threat issues than, for instance, stacking more Hit or Expertise in threat sensitive situations?
- It has a small niche in that it's the only glyph that directly increases the amount of damage you can mitigate. It's a small amount, but in a circumstance where you strive to take the least amount of damage possible during a fight, and have no special cooldown requirements, Blocking would probably be the best choice.

Really, I feel there are better practical choices then GoBlocking for an everyday every set of circumstances. Reduced cooldowns are infinitly useful, as good cooldown use keeps you alive where another tank would be dead. Saying "I should never need to use my cooldowns except to counter boss mechanics" is wishful thinking. Any tank with experience under their belt will probably tell you, you can't always count on perfect circumstances. Things can and will go wrong, and its often how well you deal with them that counts.

cfruendt
03-15-2010, 02:02 PM
thx for all the great replies...so far, seems to confirm my hunch, that I'd made a stock decision based on outdated material.

Re the question about Vigilance, I like the talent for both the threat gen, as well as for fights where I'm having to swap the boss back and forth between tanks (e.g., saurfang)...once tanks have a threat lead on dps, I vigilance the other tank. Then that toon takes less dmg, and if my taunt fails and they get whacked again, I get a free instant taunt to try again. Doesn't happen that often, as my hit is pretty solid, but it has come in handy. I like the glyph as I'm generally raiding with 1 overgeared mage, and the extra 5% threat reduction is a nice thing for us.

Spiff
03-15-2010, 06:59 PM
usually Last Stand and sheild wall are always in my glyph book. My third glyph is what I rotate around, blocking, taunt, cleaving or devastate, or whatever I need for the fight.

Kazeyonoma
03-16-2010, 09:35 AM
usually Last Stand and sheild wall are always in my glyph book. My third glyph is what I rotate around, blocking, taunt, cleaving or devastate, or whatever I need for the fight.

same.

drae
03-16-2010, 09:39 AM
Dev and shieldwall almost never come out. I swap taunt / cleave / last stand as needed. Blocking has been sub-par since Ulduar imo.

Daavos
03-16-2010, 09:56 AM
thx for all the great replies...so far, seems to confirm my hunch, that I'd made a stock decision based on outdated material.

Re the question about Vigilance, I like the talent for both the threat gen, as well as for fights where I'm having to swap the boss back and forth between tanks (e.g., saurfang)...once tanks have a threat lead on dps, I vigilance the other tank. Then that toon takes less dmg, and if my taunt fails and they get whacked again, I get a free instant taunt to try again. Doesn't happen that often, as my hit is pretty solid, but it has come in handy. I like the glyph as I'm generally raiding with 1 overgeared mage, and the extra 5% threat reduction is a nice thing for us.

Remember you have mocking blow (plus challenging shout), if your taunt fails. just saying.

cfruendt
03-17-2010, 10:22 AM
Anecdotal, yes, but ran ICC10 & 25 with my normal groups this week, dropped glyph of blocking to add in last stand. (other 2 were Vig / Shield Wall, fyi). Mostly noticed a threat drop vs. my pally tank partner...usually I can outthreat him, but had trouble this week, and all gear was same...so seems it's the glyph (or he had more coffee than usual)...that extra bit on shield slam is bigger than I expected, and the little bit spread around on trash is nice as well. Going back to Glyph of Blocking. Ymmv.

Spiff
03-17-2010, 04:43 PM
being able to "outthreat" other tanks isn't something I'd be too worried about, if you can hold threat off of the dps then you're in a good place, and the Last Stand glyph is just adding more survivability through cooldowns. Remember if you don't run Last Stand glyph, and you die causing a 2% wipe, because you didn't have any cooldowns left. This could have been saved by having this glyph.

Raysere
03-17-2010, 04:53 PM
Anecdotal, yes, but ran ICC10 & 25 with my normal groups this week, dropped glyph of blocking to add in last stand. (other 2 were Vig / Shield Wall, fyi). Mostly noticed a threat drop vs. my pally tank partner...usually I can outthreat him, but had trouble this week, and all gear was same...so seems it's the glyph (or he had more coffee than usual)...that extra bit on shield slam is bigger than I expected, and the little bit spread around on trash is nice as well. Going back to Glyph of Blocking. Ymmv.

It's about 300 threat on Shield Slam. Shield slam is doing upwards of 10k threat in current gear, take that how you wish.

swelt
03-17-2010, 05:15 PM
Dev and shieldwall almost never come out. I swap taunt / cleave / last stand as needed. Blocking has been sub-par since Ulduar imo.
I'm with Drae, although sometimes I take out shieldwall instead of last stand. It's worth noting that for a fight in which you will only use shield wall once (say, Algalon big bang eater) you might actually want the full damage reduction of unglyphed shieldwall.