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Adonijah
03-13-2010, 05:09 AM
Upon reading the changes being made to Revenge, the thought of the old UA (Unrelenting Assault) Protection build came back to mind. Some of the 3.3 PTR Notes include:

Revenge: Damage done by this ability (base and scaling) increased by 50%.
Improved Revenge: This talent can no longer trigger a stun, and instead causes Revenge to strike an additional target for 50/100% of Revenge's damage.

Ghostcrawler has previously mentioned that Revenge held a special place as a powerful, low-rage attack. With the amount of incoming rage, however, few people cared. Revenge was still powerful, but warriors have it a little rough with the numbers of buttons they've got. With this kind of damage buff, adding Unrelenting Assault to the mix makes a UA Protection build a force to be reckoned with.

The current build I'm working with is: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warrior#vHyG9vuaUsc8F8,ROMqHR,11623

The very apparent weakness of the build lies in AoE threat. No Damage Shield or Shockwave. We miss out on Critical Block as well. What it lacks in the above it brings in facestabbing and utility. Our weapon of choice changes to a slow one-handed weapon, preferably a mace (for newer tanks, Black Icicle) for the Armor Penetration, a powerful stat (afaik) for warriors of all specs. Executioner may even become one of our better threat/damage enchants. Mortal Strike becomes a high-threat/damage utility attack and we bring Trauma, relieving our furry friends of needing to use Mangle (a DPS increase for them) and giving a DPS boost if no one else brings it (and Arms Warriors aren't exactly packing in terms of DPS these days last I recall). Unfortunately, I don't have any hard math to prove any of this. Personally, I'll pick up a really slow one-hander and try it for myself when 3.3 goes live.

One of the variations I'm looking at is dropping Gag Order (gasp!) for Improved Disciplines, thus dropping Glyph of Devastate for Glyph of Shield Wall. At best, this seems like a second Protection Warrior build because of what it lacks in well-rounded threat output in addition to losing some mitigation talents. With something like http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warrior#1f89AQz5Jjia_,ROMqHR,11623 as your primary spec and UA Protection as a secondary, you can switch in Dungeons/Heroics (10s quick change + gear is pretty quick) for bosses or switch to this for timed fights.

Airowird
03-13-2010, 05:42 AM
As discussed in other threads already, UA is a powerful build for single target tanking, but lacks about everything else. Unfortunately there are only a handful of bosses in game which allow UA to be truly useful, the ones in ICC being Lady D & possibly Sindragosa.

Papapaint
03-13-2010, 01:42 PM
As discussed in other threads already, UA is a powerful build for single target tanking, but lacks about everything else. Unfortunately there are only a handful of bosses in game which allow UA to be truly useful, the ones in ICC being Lady D & possibly Sindragosa.

I would actually say that it's not so good for Lady D. She spends so much time casting that you probably won't have near the revenge uptime needed to push out higher dps than you would with just a normal prot spec. Same with sindragosa.

The bosses I see UA being viable on are: Rotface MT, Blood Queen, Blood Princes, and possibly--POSSIBLY--Lich King MT if you have another warrior to intervene/safeguard you during Soul Reaper.

Omok
03-24-2010, 01:00 AM
One of these days I will have to give Unrelenting Assault a shot, doing hard modes I don't have a lot of opportunity to play around though. Here's a spec that I cooked up.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LAMIzf0zVbbR0MZZVIxbx0zid:oAbmoM

Brage
03-24-2010, 02:20 AM
A UA build might not be a bad idea for Deathwhisper add tanking however, now that it hits 2 targets when talented. The only problem i have with UA is the low survivabillity.

Raysere
03-24-2010, 02:25 AM
I might test this out as my second spec, The DPS from this spec should be absolutely nuts, considering revenge should be doing around 2k damage per hit more then Shield Slam now. However, it sacrifices far too much to be any more then a Heroic/lolboss/toy spec for me.

Glaive
03-24-2010, 03:45 AM
Im assuming this would be a spec viable only with gear of 251 ilevel or greater to attain extremely high EH levels?

With my imperfect understanding of this build, it does seem to me to be a bit "fragile" in terms of survivability even for a single target boss tank type of situation.

Am I reading it right?, if so...

Since Trauma is usually provided by and arms war or a kitty, and if you have either of them on the raid, or possibly both are present, wouldnt spending 2 points on improved slam provide more dps to the tank or perhaps spending them in second wind that would get some extra survivability, be a better choice?.

Im assuming here that second wind will proc from boss stuns due to a lower block/parry percentage in this build ( correct me if Im wrong please ).

Raysere
03-24-2010, 03:55 AM
Im assuming this would be a spec viable only with gear of 251 ilevel or greater to attain extremely high EH levels?

With my imperfect understanding of this build, it does seem to me to be a bit "fragile" in terms of survivability even for a single target boss tank type of situation.

Am I reading it right?, if so...

Since Trauma is usually provided by and arms war or a kitty, and if you have either of them on the raid, or possibly both are present, wouldnt spending 2 points on improved slam provide more dps to the tank or perhaps spending them in second wind that would get some extra survivability, be a better choice?.

Im assuming here that second wind will proc from boss stuns due to a lower block/parry percentage in this build ( correct me if Im wrong please ).

You can pretty much Revenge on every GCD if you wish so you won't really have any opportunity for Slams. Nobody plays arms for PvE now and not having to mangle makes a cat's life considerably easier.

Glaive
03-24-2010, 04:50 AM
Nobody plays arms for PvE now

Erm... guess that makes me the last dodo?, hehehehehe :D :p :D:p

Omok
03-24-2010, 10:04 AM
We have an arms warrior in our guild that regularly pulls top DPS in the world on most fights, for all arms warriors. He's also very competitive with everyone else in the raid as well. So they are still very competitive. He pulled 10849 on heroic Saurfang last night.

Raysere
03-24-2010, 10:15 AM
We have an arms warrior in our guild that regularly pulls top DPS in the world on most fights, for all arms warriors. He's also very competitive with everyone else in the raid as well. So they are still very competitive. He pulled 10849 on heroic Saurfang last night.

Ok, maybe I was a little overzealous when I said nobody plays arms... what I really meant is they aren't as common as they have been in the past. I rarely see a good PvE arms warrior now. The main point of the comment was to indicate that if you were to use a UA spec for anything, and you had a Feral who would otherwise be Mangling, it'd be best for you to keep those 2 points in Trauma.

Raysere
03-24-2010, 04:23 PM
Hm... passing 5k on trash is pretty lol but single target I'm not really seeing any more then normal... I think it will take a lot of crit to make this work...

Inaara
03-24-2010, 04:55 PM
Hm... passing 5k on trash is pretty lol but single target I'm not really seeing any more then normal... I think it will take a lot of crit to make this work...

With the standard DW spec I was pulling in 7-8k on trash last night. The improvement to Thunderclap DOES make a sizeable difference for aoe damage and threat.

As for the OP's build I'm wondering why there aren't any points in Weapon mastery or Second Wind. I include Second win simply because this build will probably only see use in heroics and easy farmed content. Expertise is hard to come by these days so Weapon Mastery is a good place to spend the points in comparison to Imp Rend.... As for glyphing I would rarely be using mortal strike and so I opted for glyph of revenge which would in theory make every heroic strike free, avoidance permitting. Below is my build. While I do have facelifter as well as bonebreaker scepter, I would exclusively use a mace for the strength of Mace Specialization.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warrior#VtXCEn12XExuPr,Rba3HO,11623

Raysere
03-24-2010, 05:07 PM
Tried another heroic in half DPS gear... 39% of total damage done with Mage/Ret/Hunter. Ha. going 5% -> 15% crit helped a lot. 11k Revenges everywhere. This makes me giggle, even if i'll never use it in a raid most likely.

Raysere
03-25-2010, 03:17 AM
1343

Yup, can't see this lasting long.

Vong
03-25-2010, 05:53 AM
Um arnt we as Tanks there to keep the focus on trying to kill us and let the dps do their jobs ie kill the big bad monster that's trying to squash our brave hero? Seems a lot of these threads now are about "ooooh how much dps I can do" ......your a fricking tank for gods sake!
Yeah seeing a pretty lookiing number in recount is uplifting but dps isn't tps is it?
I'm pulling approx 2.1k and for me I'm satisfied with that as with my threat I know I can keep the mob on me and not my party. Yeah I know we do contribute to damage but when u see numbers like 10-11k being done by DK and locks etc shoudnt we be concentrating on tps?
Maybe I'm wrong and will get crucified for this but we hav our job let the dps do there's.

Vong.
Prot warrior
Alonsus

Ludy
03-25-2010, 07:57 AM
I think the point is we as tanks don't need 55k health to do heroics. Many of us overgear the encounters by a significant margin, so there is really no reason not to respec (for you heroic offspec for instance) and swap out some tank pieces for dps pieces. Mobs are still going to 'stick' to you, but you'll simply be doing more dps which makes the run go smoother, and let's be honest makes it a little more fun since many of us have run these 100+ times. I now have a boss tank spec for raids, and a UA tank spec for heroics and trash in raids. Did a few heroics yesterday and this morning and was pulling around 5k dps with 4-5 dps pieces (neck, wrists, trinkets and rings). If you had a healer you trusted I'm sure you could put on mostly dps gear with a sword and board and hit much higher numbers. Overall a very fun spec, that let's me do lots of dps; all the while satisfying your concern Vong of keeping mobs glued to me.

Raysere
03-25-2010, 08:04 AM
Um arnt we as Tanks there to keep the focus on trying to kill us and let the dps do their jobs ie kill the big bad monster that's trying to squash our brave hero? Seems a lot of these threads now are about "ooooh how much dps I can do" ......your a fricking tank for gods sake!
Yeah seeing a pretty lookiing number in recount is uplifting but dps isn't tps is it?
I'm pulling approx 2.1k and for me I'm satisfied with that as with my threat I know I can keep the mob on me and not my party. Yeah I know we do contribute to damage but when u see numbers like 10-11k being done by DK and locks etc shoudnt we be concentrating on tps?
Maybe I'm wrong and will get crucified for this but we hav our job let the dps do there's.

Vong.
Prot warrior
Alonsus

The point is to have fun and push the limits of what the class can do. Nobody in their right mind would use this to tank a progression fight unless it was somthign that specificly requires excessively high threat and had low survivability requirements. For me, its a bit of fun for heroics and weeklies, its something out of the ordinary to experiment with for a bit of fun.

Eraser
03-25-2010, 08:06 AM
The point of specs like this Vong is as mentioned sometimes fights don't do that much damage. So you don't need to be Mr Super Survival (some fights do though!). These are often the same fights which every little bit of dps helps - and your job, like everyone else's, becomes less about survival and more about maximizing your benefit to the raid (in this case adding more dps).

I'm really tempted to try UA on princess Lanathel 10 hardmode this week... Should see some nice dps.

JollyWarrior
03-25-2010, 01:04 PM
We have an arms warrior in our guild that regularly pulls top DPS in the world on most fights, for all arms warriors. He's also very competitive with everyone else in the raid as well. So they are still very competitive. He pulled 10849 on heroic Saurfang last night.

Whats his name? I'm looking for ways to increase my dps and want to check out his parses.

Omok
03-25-2010, 01:11 PM
Gulmokrax, Unholy Trinity, Burning Blade.

JollyWarrior
03-25-2010, 01:18 PM
Gulmokrax, Unholy Trinity, Burning Blade.

thank you :)

Inaara
03-25-2010, 02:04 PM
Um arnt we as Tanks there to keep the focus on trying to kill us and let the dps do their jobs ie kill the big bad monster that's trying to squash our brave hero? Seems a lot of these threads now are about "ooooh how much dps I can do" ......your a fricking tank for gods sake!
Yeah seeing a pretty lookiing number in recount is uplifting but dps isn't tps is it?
I'm pulling approx 2.1k and for me I'm satisfied with that as with my threat I know I can keep the mob on me and not my party. Yeah I know we do contribute to damage but when u see numbers like 10-11k being done by DK and locks etc shoudnt we be concentrating on tps?
Maybe I'm wrong and will get crucified for this but we hav our job let the dps do there's.

Vong.
Prot warrior
Alonsus

As others have mentioned, our survivability is through the roof. The whole point of this spec is to push out 7k deeps on heroics to not only make us feel good about ourselves, but also to make the DPS in the group say stuff like "nerf prot, dude wtf the tank is doing more damage than the dps, you're supposed to be tanking not dpsing."

It comes down to this, If you are holding aggro you're doing your job and DPS = Threat. If you can maintain threat and mitigate damage, why not do more DPS. If I wasn't screwing around with UA yesterday the 1800 DPS in my groups would have had very long instances to trudge through lol.

Dragaan
03-25-2010, 09:09 PM
Pushing your dps as a tank is not a bad thing, it's a good thing. As long as you are doing your job holding aggro, surviving, positioning mobs, etc., the next step is maximizing your dps. Dps is dps, it doesn't matter where it comes from - healers, tanks, dps. Extra dps is almost always a good thing.

As for this UA spec.... I tried it for the first time in a long time in 10man icc this week. After a boss or two, I gave up. Revenge is absolutely not available every cooldown, not even close. Chill of the throne, combined with how often the tank/spank bosses stop attacking to cast, means you aren't able to revenge nearly as much as you might think. I'm stickin with the standard deep wounds spec for dps/threat, just as I've always had.

The only fight where I think a UA spec might be really fun (only fun...the extra dps won't be useful) is blood prince council, if you are tanking both of the melee princes. I did over 4k dps tanking them both on 10man in a normal 15/3/53 spec with terrible threat stats and I wasn't even attempting to do solid dps. Revenge ended up doing like 30% of my damage overall, and I'm pretty sure I missed quite a few chances to hit it (maybe 50% or higher :x ). Half of your revenge damage there would be totally wasted tho, so I'm not gonna bother tryin.

Brogan
03-25-2010, 11:19 PM
I have been having a ball with it in heroics. As for raids I tanked a full toc 25 with it and the only time it really shined, you may guess, was the twins. It was brilliant though. I did 8500 dps. I would like to pick up an axe and switch over my mastery. Doubling my crit would be crazy compared to the 15% armor pen I'm running now.

Vong
03-26-2010, 01:57 AM
Still think that this whole "I wanna be like you" mode is wasted if youwant to dps go fury offspec and run as dps. The guildies I runwith on heroics are getting that good that mobs die incredibly fast as it would be pointless me even trying to compete.
I know it's fun to experiment and if that's your thing then fine it's your gold.
Maybe I'm a purist and feel it's my job to have the threat and consider it a buzz to hold the aggro for those few seconds that the mob has left on that earth. But I do feel that dps should be left to those that do it better. Bears we ain't. What next healers dual weilding and hoping that the group brought pots lol.
Each to their own is what it's about I know that's why the game won't get old for me just yet.

Dagmarr
03-26-2010, 03:24 AM
Still think that this whole "I wanna be like you" mode is wasted if youwant to dps go fury offspec and run as dps. The guildies I runwith on heroics are getting that good that mobs die incredibly fast as it would be pointless me even trying to compete.
I know it's fun to experiment and if that's your thing then fine it's your gold.
Maybe I'm a purist and feel it's my job to have the threat and consider it a buzz to hold the aggro for those few seconds that the mob has left on that earth. But I do feel that dps should be left to those that do it better. Bears we ain't. What next healers dual weilding and hoping that the group brought pots lol.
Each to their own is what it's about I know that's why the game won't get old for me just yet.

By having 4-5k dps, you are generating a massive amount of threat. That's an actual reason to use a UA build, not for damage but for threat. Each point of damage is roughly 2 points of threat, so a 5k UA prot warrior is now able to hold mobs off a 10k MM hunter, Destro Lock, Fury Warrior, Frost DK, etc.

Prinnyraid
03-26-2010, 04:23 AM
im having more threat with the UA build in heroics :p glyph of cleave ftw

Dragaan
03-26-2010, 04:39 AM
Regardless of whether you're using UA or not... I just do not see where people get off saying "tanks shouldn't care about their dps". I'm completely baffled by this. DPS is DPS! I don't know about your guild/raid, but mine sure as hell wants as much as we can possibly get. This goes for anything. Bosses, 5mans, raid trash, etc. More dps means stuff dies faster. Is that such a bad thing??

As for heroics tho... I've never tried UA in a heroic, but I would think it's super frustrating to run around only able to revenge (after a mob attacks you...) and use a few boring abilities. The reason protection warriors are so unique and fun, ESPECIALLY in 5mans, is because of warbringer and shockwave! Why on earth would you want to give these up? :(

Vong
03-26-2010, 05:48 AM
I do care about my dps and yeah I know it equates to threat some what but ok in heroics I know most icc geared tanks are way over geared and yes I do drop some of my stam gear for something lower if only to make sure I give the healer something to do. But UA in raids is pointless. 0 survivability all for the sake of doing 3k more dam. Well if your raid needs that to get thru the boss maybe you should look at your dps classes you bring.
We have a job to do and I might only do 2.1k dps (sometimes a bit more) but I never ever get over aggroed by my raid so it's not a case of low dps low threat.
My point before was if players have the inclination to try these things great, but is it really worth it in the long run when u wipe a raid cos your MT drops and you fail to pick up boss for the few seconds it takes for a BR to go off as you have 0 survivability due to dropping essential tank talents so you could look shiny on recount?

Dragaan
03-26-2010, 07:30 AM
I do care about my dps and yeah I know it equates to threat some what but ok in heroics I know most icc geared tanks are way over geared and yes I do drop some of my stam gear for something lower if only to make sure I give the healer something to do. But UA in raids is pointless. 0 survivability all for the sake of doing 3k more dam. Well if your raid needs that to get thru the boss maybe you should look at your dps classes you bring.
We have a job to do and I might only do 2.1k dps (sometimes a bit more) but I never ever get over aggroed by my raid so it's not a case of low dps low threat.
My point before was if players have the inclination to try these things great, but is it really worth it in the long run when u wipe a raid cos your MT drops and you fail to pick up boss for the few seconds it takes for a BR to go off as you have 0 survivability due to dropping essential tank talents so you could look shiny on recount?

Well, I don't buy into the UA spec either. I honestly think it's kinda silly. But people just use it for fun. Personally, I don't find it fun at ALL. You might be able to do more dps/tps on some (few) fights over a traditional deep wounds spec, but overall there's no comparison. It gives up way too much utility and snap aoe threat.

Back to the tank dps thing again... Pushing dps/tps as high as possible is one of the things that keeps tanking interesting and competitive. If you are doing your job holding aggro, staying alive, etc., then that's the only thing that really separates one tank from the next. I love pushing my dps on some fights, and it's fun trying to top the wol/wmo meters at times.

Dagmarr
03-26-2010, 09:50 AM
I do care about my dps and yeah I know it equates to threat some what but ok in heroics I know most icc geared tanks are way over geared and yes I do drop some of my stam gear for something lower if only to make sure I give the healer something to do. But UA in raids is pointless. 0 survivability all for the sake of doing 3k more dam. Well if your raid needs that to get thru the boss maybe you should look at your dps classes you bring.
We have a job to do and I might only do 2.1k dps (sometimes a bit more) but I never ever get over aggroed by my raid so it's not a case of low dps low threat.
My point before was if players have the inclination to try these things great, but is it really worth it in the long run when u wipe a raid cos your MT drops and you fail to pick up boss for the few seconds it takes for a BR to go off as you have 0 survivability due to dropping essential tank talents so you could look shiny on recount?

It doesn't relate 'somewhat,' it is a direct relation. In Wrath, tank threat is based on the damage they do, and if you can do more dps you can do more tps.

JollyWarrior
03-26-2010, 12:29 PM
I've been running a couple of dungeons and find this to be a lot of fun. (my first test run was OCC which is not fun with this build.) I did a few BG's and so long as I'm fighting a pet class or a melee I'm good to face roll!

Though my DPS isn't reaching the level of some of you guys, I'll blame it on gear but I'm mostly 251/264 tank gear. I'm afraid that by switching out some tank gear for dps gear will cause revenge to not be up enough. What's the magic mitigation number? 51%?

Thedom
03-26-2010, 01:49 PM
It kills me seeing people that think its ok for a prot warrior to do 500 dps as long as he holds threat. At that point why bother bringing a prot warrior over any other tank. Enrage timers are enrage timers. If a dps dc's or you have some bad luck with a heal or lag or anything, that tank being able to do more might save that particular attempt. I offer to go DPS on Festergut if our bear is in the raid cause he can tank, survive, AND do double my damage as prot. If it doesn't hurt your survivability to do more damage then you are holding your raid back by not doing it. Does this mean UA is useful in ICC? I would almost definitely say no for almost anything but trash. Does it mean UA is a great way to clear a heroic in half the time? Good chance. We had a mostly badge geared tank running UA while i was dps'ing on my rogue with a couple friends. Our DPS are all our alts and do ~4k on a good pull, sometimes less. This tank was holding 7k minimum during trash with just revenge and cleave and my rogue could hardly get enough deadly poison stacks to get a decent envemon hit in. As far as fun goes pulling everything and spamming a few buttons may be easy but I would definitely call it a good time.

TLDR - Revenge buff and Imp Revenge are awesome for a small dps boost to help prot warriors in raids on dps sensitive fights (even when you aren't close to enrage timer, killing faster means sleeping more) using a standard DW tanking build, the one Blizzard admitted they balance our threat around, and it allows prot warriors to have some fun with their off spec while doing heroics. What tank doesn't get frustrated in heroics if they wear their raid gear or even just going in to help friends get queues faster to gear alts or whatever?

Inaara
03-26-2010, 02:02 PM
killing faster means sleeping more

Awesome.

Thedom
03-26-2010, 03:18 PM
Awesome.

We raid late. Sooner we kill those bosses the more time we can sleep and less chance of raiders losing focus. =P

JollyWarrior
03-26-2010, 10:31 PM
We raid late. Sooner we kill those bosses the more time we can sleep and less chance of raiders losing focus. =P

and less chance of raiders losing jobs to over sleeping =P

Thedom
03-26-2010, 11:37 PM
and less chance of raiders losing jobs to over sleeping =P

So true but sadly most of us are focused on killing bosses and just sleeping rather than waking up for work....something wrong with priorities there...

Fitzlestick
03-27-2010, 01:20 AM
Been trying this spec out in heroics and I must say it's quite enjoyable. Was first dps in most heroics, except the one where a feral druid guildy joined ofcourse... Usually average dps over the whole heroic was between 5 and 6k.
Spec used: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LAMIzf0zVbbR0MZZVIxrx00ib:dobmoM
Still fiddling around with gear, not sure what is optimal.
I mostly used 3 dps items and 2 dps trinkets. Anyone has tips for gear for such a build ?

Vong
03-27-2010, 05:32 AM
Cmon what raid geared prott warrior does 500dps?????? Get real next you will be moaning that the healers arnt pulling there weight with dps.....
Personally if I was doing that kind of dps I would delete my character and roll a bear.
The encounters are designed for (x) amout of dps and (y) amount of healers/tanks and are generally with practice easily clearable with these numbers. So yeah we do contribute maybe not as much as some people would like but the things you would have to drop to get the UA build IMO are not worth it!
As I did say earlier that if this is what some players are doing then great it's what's wows about don't get defensive (541) because someone else has a diff of opion.
UA v Fury offspec.
For example Lady DW in icc norm is perfectlly easy to 1 tank it. So let's say I'm in UA build helping dps adds down and the tank dies so I pick up and quite quickly I also die as I'm now not really a tank anymore. But when we've done it I go full fury spec and help dps adds down but diff is I'm doing way way way dps that you can do in your UA spec so adds die quicker fight is shorter and yes MT tank can still die and yeah I would proberly follow shortly after but with a faster fight less chance of this healers save mana etc etc etc.
Everything has it's place and I applaud the players who go in diff directions and come up with great and diff ideas but this one isn't
Heroics are fun runs now so yeah go bananas but if you think it's viable for end game raiding hope you got the repair funds on tap.

Satorri
03-27-2010, 05:59 AM
I have been having a ball with it in heroics. As for raids I tanked a full toc 25 with it and the only time it really shined, you may guess, was the twins. It was brilliant though. I did 8500 dps. I would like to pick up an axe and switch over my mastery. Doubling my crit would be crazy compared to the 15% armor pen I'm running now.

no U

=)

Raysere
03-27-2010, 06:26 AM
Cmon what raid geared prott warrior does 500dps?????? Get real next you will be moaning that the healers arnt pulling there weight with dps.....
Personally if I was doing that kind of dps I would delete my character and roll a bear.
The encounters are designed for (x) amout of dps and (y) amount of healers/tanks and are generally with practice easily clearable with these numbers. So yeah we do contribute maybe not as much as some people would like but the things you would have to drop to get the UA build IMO are not worth it!
As I did say earlier that if this is what some players are doing then great it's what's wows about don't get defensive (541) because someone else has a diff of opion.
UA v Fury offspec.
For example Lady DW in icc norm is perfectlly easy to 1 tank it. So let's say I'm in UA build helping dps adds down and the tank dies so I pick up and quite quickly I also die as I'm now not really a tank anymore. But when we've done it I go full fury spec and help dps adds down but diff is I'm doing way way way dps that you can do in your UA spec so adds die quicker fight is shorter and yes MT tank can still die and yeah I would proberly follow shortly after but with a faster fight less chance of this healers save mana etc etc etc.
Everything has it's place and I applaud the players who go in diff directions and come up with great and diff ideas but this one isn't
Heroics are fun runs now so yeah go bananas but if you think it's viable for end game raiding hope you got the repair funds on tap.

You're grasping the wrong end of the stick here. I'll summarize for you:

1. Nobody proposed using UA for seriously for non-trivial encounters.

2. The point of UA is not to replace a DPS, but to increase your threat and damage output for encounters that are otherwise trivial to you and your raid. Do you really think real guilds progressing through hard-mode content in ICC have any trouble downing normal modes on a weekly basis? No, they don't. You can get away with slightly less survivability because people aren't going to make the same mistakes they did when learning the boss, plus they pretty much outgear the fight. Speeding things up doesn't hurt them at all.

3. Nobody proposed using UA as your sole tanking spec. A lot of Prot Warriors never, ever have to go DPS, and thus have zero interest in maintaining a full set of DPS gear or a DPS spec. Having an alternate spec available to customise your performance to the situation is nice.

4. To reach UA you sacrifice the following: 5% Stamina, 2% Strength, 2 Expertise. AoE snap-agro from Shockwave, critical block, faster-stacking of sunders from Glyph of Dev, Warbringer Mobility, minor reflective damage. you're still in Prot gear and you still have the majority of the essential Prot talents. "You aren't a tank anymore" - hardly. Your LDW example is nonsensical, a UA build won't take any more damage from LDW herself than any other Prot build. You'll have 5% less HP, but what does that matter if you over-gear it? UA isn't really viable on LDW herself as she spends most of her time casting, meaning Revenge will be unusable a lot of the time. Warbringer mobility and SW really come in handy on that fight too, so you'd be better off as SW/DW.

5. I tanked 25 man gunship adds as UA this week. Oh em gee its not viable for endgame content...

Just because you aren't interested in doing it doesn't mean it doesn't work. You don't have to involve yourself in the discussion if the subject is not in your interests.

Vong
03-27-2010, 07:34 AM
Never said I wasent interested now did I? This forum is about opendiscussion not one user telling another to but out.
I have said 3 times now (count em) that if someone wants this build great hope it works. I wanted to give to thread another view from a purist look.
This I'm sure is within Tankspots rules so will continue to post replies to threads I'm interested in.
Ty for the info you posted ray very helpful and again have also said I do applaude you guys for all the info research time spent looking at these subjects with the passion that you do.
Not helpful you telling someone to go away if they are contributing another view point.
Hope this makes sense and puts my reason accross without getting another slap.

Eraser
03-27-2010, 09:06 AM
I have a full survival spec, and a UA spec, doesn't that make me a purest? Both tanking specs? One focused on taking the least amount of damage, and one focused on maximizing damage done.

Our guild missed out on a Heroic Lanathel(10) kill last week by 200k. Which is probably the difference between normal and UA.

robbon
03-27-2010, 01:12 PM
with your UA spec are you switching between battlestance and protection mid fight ? or just spamming revenge in prot ?

Brogan
03-27-2010, 05:26 PM
Depending on the ease of the fight and if there are multiple targets I will switch to battle stance to pop sweeping strikes.

As far as dissenting on threat. My threat is just as good if not better. Survivability difference between this and a prot build that picks up impale is very little. In my opinion what you're really losing is a reason to stack sunders for your dpsers.

I dug up my last laugh to switch over to an axe specialty. Using an axe was very effective since the revenge damage isn't weapon based. I Also dropped vigilance and picked up juggernaut since I frequently switch over to battle stance for sweeping strikes anyway, and the vigilance hasn't been necessary, thus preserving a bit of that mobility lost from warbringer. Yes I'm aware that requires stance dancing, no it doesn't feel like a big deal. It's not like I always had warbringer to work with.

Heckler
03-28-2010, 08:08 PM
Ive mostly just been using this in random heroics... its... just a blast. My tank gear is pretty horrible and still no problems at all so far. Tested it on Patch for the weekly, 4.5k dps
I dont find the need to stance dance much, pop sweeping strikes, charge in(defensive stance is macroed to my charge along with bloodrage and berserker rage) pop shield block and start layin into em, 8k... why would I ever stop. Its good times. Dont forget were here to have fun, I understand the pursit standpoint well enough... but uh... yea...

Anyway. With Cat in the near future i dont think this will be a viable spec for long sooo Im just gonna have as much fun as I can, while I can. I figure you can start rockin UA/prot as soon as 58 and push through randoms allll day long. Why not?

robbon
03-29-2010, 04:21 PM
out dps'd a rogue and ret pally tonigt in heroic CoS ....silly..but i couldnt help telling them both to go practice on a dummy for an hour and that they should be ashamed of themselves..

bad tank.

elting44
03-29-2010, 05:21 PM
UA is awesome... It is all i will use in heroics until it gets nerfed. DO NOT USE IT FOR MOST PROGRESSION, IT IS NOT A HIGH SURVIVAL/UTILITY BUILD... It does one thing really well, aoe damage

1) I use Half Tanking/Half DPS gear, thats puts me over the hit cap, 20 exp, 18% crit, 30% Armpen (I use Hearty Rhino and Mace Spec that puts me at about 47% so I am at 95% when NES procs), 4092 Attack power.

I only have 505 Def rating, and 33k Unbuffed health, 28k armor. It leaves me open for taking crits, but with an even somewhat competent healer this poses no threat of dying in heroics, with the exception of HoR.

2) I use a 37/2/32 Build, with mace spec for the extra armpen. I use Glyphs of Cleaving, Revenge and Sweeping Strikes.

3) Start of in battle, cast sweeping strikes, charge, go into def stance, TC, and start cleaving like a crack head wielding a chain saw. Spam revenge and queue up cleaves for every attack while there are 2+ mobs

Tips:

If there are casters in the packs, kill them first, uses the attacks from the melee mobs to fuel your revenges. UA is not as great against casting mobs, if you are fighting only a caster, use MS, SS, and HS.

I am using mostly 232-251 gear, and in Heroics I expect to do 7-8k overall DPS depending on the comp of the group and the melee synergy. On packs of 3+ Mobs DPS goes up to 11-12k

It is the most fun I have had tanking.

Brogan
03-30-2010, 08:44 PM
It seems that I can only cast revenge once per block/dodge/parry now. This feels new. I think you used to be able to spam it 4-5 times for each block dodge or parry and it just refreshed every time. I'm probably going to drop the spec now, as I think it will be severely diminished in effectiveness for 1-2 mob pulls.

FletusSanguine
03-31-2010, 12:42 AM
Looks like Blizz hotfixed it with the "nerf" that GC said would be likely. I can't say I'm surprised, as the damage potential of this build on multi-mob packs was obviously unintentional and unfair, but it was fun while it lasted.

MooTiger
04-05-2010, 05:36 AM
Still using UA for heroic tanking, and was trying to find out if anyone had done a comparison between mace spec for arm pen and axe spec for the crit as to which came out on top ..

i'm currently running with mace spec and the ilvl 219 mace (bonebreaker hasn't dropped for me yet in the few icc10's i've done).

Even with the proc change on the build it still makes heroics fun to be 5k+ dps making it a little quicker for those that have done it millions of times... i admit i miss the 12k dps i used to get before the proc change.

Alithiel
04-06-2010, 03:07 AM
It's still possible to keep the Revenge button almost permanently lit, even with the change to a single Revenge per proc; you'll just have to get out the old passive-unhittable tanking set!

As long as you pull enough mobs, or have a fast hitting boss, you can still make low to moderately geared DPS weep in Heroics...

robbon
04-06-2010, 08:15 AM
pre nerf ..5-6k post nerf 3k

i was doing nearly 3k in normal tank spec with standard tank gear. Dont see much point in UA now. Only difference thats really noticeable is rage.

ironsides
04-07-2010, 10:42 AM
I am definetly going to tank valanar and taldram at the same time on heroic princes this friday. I don't know if I will die as UA spec or not but I will definetly find out. I outgear the encounter, even for 10 man hardmodes, so we will see what happens. I am sure i will get a kick out of it regardless.

Rizilliant
04-07-2010, 11:08 AM
I'm wondering the same thing...Goin so deep in the Arms tree, arent u lacking some essential Damage Mitigating abilities from Protection? I can see this as "maybe" a soloing build forfun...But a serious raiding Prot warr?

elting44
04-08-2010, 08:52 AM
I'm wondering the same thing...Goin so deep in the Arms tree, arent u lacking some essential Damage Mitigating abilities from Protection? I can see this as "maybe" a soloing build forfun...But a serious raiding Prot warr?

In short, No. You are going to want a 15/3/53 or other deep Prot build for tanking raids.

UA is(was) for Heroics and Trash pulls, And given the hot-fix changed it so you can only do one revenge per block, dodge or parry, rather than as many times as you could fit into a 5 second window, it lost alot of its power.

I got rid of my UA build, yeah doing 5k dps as a prot warrior is nice, but I would rather take the utility and god-like mitigation of a deep prot build, rather than an extra 2k dps.

Pre-"nerf" UA was really fun, doing 12k DPS on pulls and seeing the DPSer's epeen shrink, but they un-broke it and it is too lack-luster in comparison for me to use anymore.

With that being said, certain encounters may be viable to use UA, but I would not think Blood Princes is one of them, I don't see that a little more DPS has priotity over being certain you won't die. In a raid situation, let the DPS worry about doing damage, tank worry about not littering the ground with skeletons.

just my .02

Steelo
04-30-2010, 04:46 AM
I tried this UA spec and i was so happy with it, i decided to take it a bit further... spec now is 51/8/12, using a 2h weapon and running heroics like that... kicks ass, isnt hard to heal and everyone goes like wtffff arms warrior tanking muahaha can he do it? and when done i heard like "god your awesome, this was big fun" and stuff... go give it a try if you liked the UA spec because of the dps and "in your face"-attitude the arms version doubles that kind of fun... bladestorm for going into a group, then thunderclap & cleave, then revenge-spam and cleave... 7k dps should be easy for your icecrown-tanks, my gear sucks and i pulled those 7 while testing, average 4-5k dps in a heroic. dont forget to add some crit and mungoose while not sacrificing too much of your avoidance or your revenge-button will remain grey.

Doherty
04-30-2010, 05:50 PM
I'll take Death Knights, for $500, Alex.

Petninja
05-02-2010, 05:30 AM
UA is great, partly because it feels a little more like tanking used to be... or did before they made Revenge cleave. Even still, for heroics and lower tier raids I can go in my Prot PvP gear and maintain roughly 4k dps on bosses and 6-7k dps on trash packs, and my stats aren't really suffering for it. Alternatively, you could just wear full PvE dps gear and still be perfectly fine.

Dreadski
05-02-2010, 10:54 AM
UA is great, partly because it feels a little more like tanking used to be... or did before they made Revenge cleave. Even still, for heroics and lower tier raids I can go in my Prot PvP gear and maintain roughly 4k dps on bosses and 6-7k dps on trash packs, and my stats aren't really suffering for it. Alternatively, you could just wear full PvE dps gear and still be perfectly fine.

I pull that DPS in full raid gear and DW spec, if UA was so great now you'd be hitting 10k on trash and 5-6 on bosses easy.