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View Full Version : Tanking Tank Enchants: Seeking clarification.



zachatta
03-11-2010, 03:40 PM
So I've been tanking since beginningish of WotLK expac.

I have always had similar enchants on my gear, like armsman on gloves (waits for flame session)

Ive been using Blade Ward for a weapon enchant (Im a warrior btw.)

And as i browse through WoW tanking forums, and these forums I can't find a sticky or anything on

"Optimal Tank Enchants".

The whole reason behind this is when i read threads i see people "instantly bash other tanks" because of

enchants, like blade ward instead of mongoose, Armsman instead of stam to gloves, etc etc.

So i want to pose question to all of you. (And please dont make this a stupid, my epeen is huge and im better than you thread. Also, if you are going to argue an enchant, please dont make it like "I LEIK MONGOOSE CUAZ NO WAN HAS IT AND UR A NOOB FACE, can i get helpful research, or arguments that are thought through.)

What are the OPTIMAL Enchants for a tank if tank is defense capped.

Hands:
Weapon:
Chest:
Shield:
Bracers:
Boots:
Cloak:

Im posting my armory on the enchants I have now, so please review and give constructive criticism.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Eldre%27Thalas&cn=Pleasuredood

krc
03-11-2010, 03:42 PM
Hands: 18 stamina or 240 armor
Weapon: Debatable whether Mongoose or Blood Draining
Chest: 275 health
Shield: Debatable, 18 stam or 20 defense
Bracers: 40 stamina
Boots: Tuskarr's Vitality.

Inaara
03-11-2010, 03:57 PM
Hands: 18 stamina or 240 armor
Weapon:
Threat - Mongoose
Avoidance - Blade Ward
EH - Blood Draining
Chest: 275 health
Shield: Debatable, 18 stam or 20 defense
Bracers: 40 stamina
Boots: Tuskarr's Vitality.

There we go. I see the OP didn't put shoulders so I'm hoping he already knows it's 30 stam/15 res

Bodasafa
03-11-2010, 04:04 PM
So i want to pose question to all of you. (And please dont make this a stupid, my epeen is huge and im better than you thread. Also, if you are going to argue an enchant, please dont make it like "I LEIK MONGOOSE CUAZ NO WAN HAS IT AND UR A NOOB FACE, can i get helpful research, or arguments that are thought through.)

You won't find responses like that here. That's the difference between tankspot and the wow official forums.

Bodasafa
03-11-2010, 04:10 PM
Sorry forgot to include my answer.

Hands: +240 Armor
Weapon: Blood Draining
Chest: +275 HP
Shield: +18 Stamina
Bracers: +40 Stamina
Boots: +15 Stamina & Movement Speed (Tuskar's)
Cloak: +225 Armor

Edit Reasoning: Because the most optimal way to gear, gem, and in this case enchant for current content (ICC) is EH (Effective Health, Stamina + Armor).

zachatta
03-11-2010, 04:20 PM
"There we go. I see the OP didn't put shoulders so I'm hoping he already knows it's 30 stam/15 res"

Assuming i was defense capped without shoulder enchant, i could justify this reply, however since resilience is a complete waste of a stat, wouldnt it be better to have def/dodge

Not starting an argument, i simply want an explanation.

krc
03-11-2010, 04:27 PM
Sorry forgot to include my answer.

Hands: +240 Armor
Weapon: Blood Draining

.

These two are arguable, in a situation where you die from a hit or hit and spontaneous dot and go from over 35% to dead Blood Draining becomes useless which will happen occasionally in ICC as a whole but not often. Also while 240 armor offers marginal gains EH gains in ICC where the bosses that are a threat Fester (Vile Gas), Sindragosa ( Most of the incoming damage) and Lich King ( Soul Reaper) all offer magical elements which reduce the armor's value slightly enough for the 18 stamina to become optimal.

@Zachatta generally people prefer 30 stamina to the dodge and defense without taking into account resilience.

zachatta
03-11-2010, 05:08 PM
So, im sorry if this topic exists, and i have essentially brought it back up, but I have been browsing through forums trying to find my previous resource and i failed. :(

however i found this reference of tank enchants. - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=16137187551&sid=1&pageNo=1 -

The one I wanted to find was a forum discussing survivability on all chants, and crunched numbers, and said that the following chants have this percent to save you from a killing blow:

Blood Draining - 2%.
Mongoose - .94%
Blade Ward - .95%

(Of course i suppose this isnt justified, merely because it is heresay and i cant find the original post.)

Assuming this - Blood Draining would be the ideal enchant. Of course this doesnt count for constant mitigation, and reviewing the recent post i found out that Blade ward can stack up to 5 times.

So, taking in this information the choices for wep enchant, for MYSELF (again i am a warrior, blade ward is actually viable.) It would be a toss up between BW and BD correct?

(I dont like the threat argument from mongoose, simply because why would u argue to boost threat, but reduce threat by losing armsman, seems contradictary.)

If anyone knows any online resources, forums, number crunches off hand and can link them, and completely clear this up for me, that would be much appreciative.

Feel free to say, "Your wrong", but if you do, can you show me evidence.

Excluding that, the rest of the information was very helpful, and ill switch some enchants around accordingly.

krc
03-11-2010, 05:20 PM
Here are the issues with those calculations A: It is the perfect boss where you get hit for 15k every 2.5 seconds, there is not a single boss in game that will kill you like that. B: Mongoose is better than Blade Warding for this reason, they are basically equal on said "perfect boss", the armor from agility works against unmitigable damage and armor is consistent, these factors increase your survivability very much in a real life situation.

GŁth
03-11-2010, 05:21 PM
Assuming i was defense capped without shoulder enchant, i could justify this reply, however since resilience is a complete waste of a stat, wouldnt it be better to have def/dodge

If you're already Def capped before using a shoulder enchant then it really boils down to 30 stamina vs 20 dodge rating. The avoidance gained from 15 defense rating is not going to make or break your tanking ability and is not the main reason tanks use Defense to begin with, crit immunity is.

30 stamina scales with modifier talents (Vitality) and Blessing of Kings or Sanctuary and 20 dodge rating does not.

When given a choice between EHP or avoidance enchants most tanks regard the EHP to be more effective than avoidance (dodge/parry) because it's always there for you and doesn't have a chance to fail.

zachatta
03-11-2010, 05:26 PM
Whats the armor increase on 120 agility anyways?
And the mongoose procs do not stack.

So....

Any numbers?

If the armor is significant, then sure, i can accept that.

(Please do not interpret this as being rude...I just do not understand.)

And also i thought the argument against trinkets such as "Black Heart" was the armor was never planned or constant, and that is why it wasnt so great.

Would the armor from mongoose validate the same way?

It isnt EH simply because it isnt there constantly?

zachatta
03-11-2010, 05:50 PM
If you're already Def capped before using a shoulder enchant then it really boils down to 30 stamina vs 20 dodge rating. The avoidance gained from 15 defense rating is not going to make or break your tanking ability and is not the main reason tanks use Defense to begin with, crit immunity is.

30 stamina scales with modifier talents (Vitality) and Blessing of Kings or Sanctuary and 20 dodge rating does not.

When given a choice between EHP or avoidance encahnts most tanks regard the EHP to be more effective than avoidance (dodge/parry) because it's always there for you and doesn't have a chance to fail.

Thank you for that answer, that definently make sense, since it does stack with talents and buffs.

And that would be assuming your defense capped as well, ok, I will make that change accordingly as well.

zachatta
03-11-2010, 06:09 PM
Well ill leave it at that then, dont want to start another threat that has been done 50 times.

Thanks all for the input.

Dragaan
03-11-2010, 11:08 PM
The resil on the stam shoulder enchant is wasted if you are already uncrittable, but if you are below 540 the resil enchant actually lowers your chance to be crit by more than the def shoulder enchant. And, yes, the situation still arises in icc gear where you might find yourself under 540. A month or so back, before I had 4 sanctified t10 pieces, I actually was in a situation where the resil shoulder enchant made me uncrittable but the defense one did not. But either way, the stam enchant is better. Especially now with the buff to hp in icc, the stam is way more valuable than the defense/dodge.

Blade warding isn't so hot because it just doesn't seem to proc enough. Mongoose still seems to proc more, and the buff from mongoose doesn't disappear when you dodge an attack (like the blade warding buff does if you parry). And btw, blade warding procs just as often for a paladin as it does for a warrior. After looking over tons of logs where the tank was using blade warding, I found it usually had a higher uptime with pally tanks for some reason. I've seen a LOT of logs with a paladin tank getting 25-35% uptime on blade warding. I'm currently using blade warding again on a new weapon I just picked up, just to test it again. So far I've enchanted maybe 4 weapons with it since ulduar came out. Each time, I ended up kickin myself after a raid or two because the enchant just sucked so badly. I guess I keep hoping they'd stealth buff it or something to make it better. :/ It's really a shame that blood draining doesn't have some sort of threat boost built in to the enchant. They should make it actually DRAIN the hp from the boss. If each time you got a stack from blood draining it also did X amount of dmg to the boss (draining the boss hp and pooling it for use in case you dip low), then it would be the best enchant ever.

Aggathon
03-11-2010, 11:55 PM
http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?63414-Tanking-Weapon-Enchant/page3

Also the link in my sig has an enchanting section that covers all of this.