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MercurioBlue
03-10-2010, 01:57 AM
Background info:
We have been doing ICC 25 since December, raiding for 3 hours per night, about 2-3 nights a week.
We had some light DPS turnover since we started raiding ICC 25, and we also did not raid during Christmas/New Year's week, which has set back our progress slightly. To compound issues, we're on a low population, low progression server, so it's not easy to get new DPS to replace lower performing DPS. Recently, we have been stressing to our raiders that they need to be able to do xxx DPS for the fights, and we have gotten a few new talented DPS, which has helped, as we went from struggling to kill Deathbringer Saurfang 25 in January, to clearing eight bosses in ICC 25.

Despite our recent successes, I still feel like we have room for improvement, and we will need to tighten up our DPS to have any chance of getting Blood Queen 25 down. That being said, we've killed Festergut 25 twice. The first time, we 5 healed it, but barely got him down before the berserk timer (4:52). The second time we 6 healed it and it was extremely messy (killed him 8 seconds after the berserk).

We had 2 groups of 4 ranged people, and everyone else was in melee range. The ranged group positions were marked using warlock teleports. During spores, we told people to watch the symbol over their head and run to a specific place if they had a certain symbol.

Here's the log from when we 5 healed it:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/zltxoo5gdredk3lx/sum/damageDone/?s=11010&e=11303

Here's the log from when we 6 healed it:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r1v2ceoy64qe55cj/sum/damageDone/?s=4340&e=4648

Can anyone here suggest what our DPS (especially our warriors/hunters) could be doing differently to increase their DPS?

I appreciate any assistance you can offer.

Dragaan
03-10-2010, 04:01 AM
I only looked over 1 of the logs (5heal). I can't really help with the hunters, but the warrior dps should be a lot higher than it is (especially the guy with 2 264 weapons). First off, there are some gearing/gemming issues. I'd recommend your warriors use landsoul's dps spreadsheet (available on elitistjerks - just google "landsoul's dps spreadsheet") to help them out. One of the warriors only used death wish twice and he could have used it 3 times. That's pretty major. Also, neither one of them used haste pots on that fight. A lot of the other dps (including your top dps) were using 1 or 2 of them. If you are having a lot of issues on this fight, require every dps to double-pot (one just before entering combat) with either haste or wild magic. I think wild magic might be better for hunters than haste (I've heard that somewhere), but I'm not positive.

Also, using heroism about 5seconds into the fight is usually best. Everyone will have their cooldowns popped and, hopefully, will have a potion buff.

I see you use 2 prot pallies as tanks. Whenever the tanks swap on festergut, have the tank who was relieved (9 stacks but not currently tanking) turn off righteous fury and go nuts on dps. If they don't turn righteous fury off, they'll have to hold back a bit. Just make certain they turn it back on before taunting.

One last thing that might be bringing your dps down is how you deal with spores. By having each mark assigned to a specific spot, you make it easier to deal with them but you are also forcing melee to run out and stop dpsing occasionally. If a melee gets a circle and circle is assigned to run out to a ranged group, they lose all that dps time on the boss. If you could find another way of dealing with the spores, you might give a melee dpser or two a few extra seconds of dps. Also, try to have the bare minimum amount of ppl at range. I'm not positive on how many ppl you need at range, but usually there's a caster or two who can stand in melee to boost their dps.

Oh, and when the fight is almost over you can ignore the last set of spores usually. If the enrage is going to come before the next pungent blight, just ignore all spores and go all out on dps.

Besides all those things, you really can't afford to have dps doing less damage than the tanks. Something has to change there.

Fenier
03-11-2010, 09:22 AM
A few things I noticed from your 5 healer kill.



You have a Elemental Shaman, and a Balance Druid which are performing below your Paladin tanks.
You had a Mage die almost 2 minutes before the end of the fight to a Blight.
If this was your -better- attempt, you lost 21 people prior to the end of the fight. Some as early as half way through, not getting enough spores.
Several of the Deaths were to Blight. You need a better way to handle Spores.

So you have a few issues.

You need to work on your spores to minimize travel time, yet maximize effect. The people under Festergut should never move. You should have one of the ranged people with Spores run in.

Make sure you are minimizing how many people are hit by Vile Gas by spreading out some between Spores. Some of your healers were hit by Vile Gas, this may have helped contribute to your raid falling apart right before the win. If you have enough Ranged, Healers should be under Festergut to avoid being stunned.

In the case of your Boomkin, they only cast Six Starfires, didn't use Treants, Did not use Starfall, and basically spammed Wrath the entire time. Even with a horrible crit rate they would have proc'd Eclipse and should have switched to Starfire more then once in the encounter. If they are going to play balance they need to learn to adjust their rotation with Eclipse procs.

MercurioBlue
03-12-2010, 12:56 AM
Thank you for the feedback, Dragaan and Fenier.

Regarding that first log (with 5 healers):

The druid we had doing balance DPS is a healer 95% of the time. We had him DPS'ing because we didn't have the DPS to beat the berserk timer with 6 healers that week.

The elemental shaman doesn't raid with the guild usually, due to work schedule conflicts, so she's lacking gear, and more importantly, raid experience. We simply didn't have any other DPS available that night.

The mage isn't raiding with us anymore.

I had previously mentioned to both warriors to use the Landsoul spreadsheet, and they mentioned they were looking at it, but I don't know how religiously they're following it.

I have also gotten on people's cases to use haste potions/wild magic potions for boss fights.

We did Festergut last night and DPS was much better this week. We went up to 143k raid DPS (while using 6 healers):

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/psa2aoks59n7yjf7/sum/damageDone/?s=10170&e=10453

Shortypop
03-12-2010, 01:55 AM
Grats on the cleaner kill, A few things from the last log:

- expose armour seems to only be up 72% of the time (unless I've missed an alternative)
- you've got 10 people getting hit by vile gas (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/psa2aoks59n7yjf7/spell/71218/?s=10170&e=10453) I think of which only one is a healer, the more healers you can put at ranged the better (up to a point) I think we do 3 healers and 4 ranged (please check minimum numbers), one healer gets the central spot and they all collapse onto them for innoculations, from the "alternative vile gas" which I think is the aoe from one person http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/psa2aoks59n7yjf7/spell/71288/?s=10170&e=10453, you've got a chain happening.

ok looking at:http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/psa2aoks59n7yjf7/xe/?s=10170&e=10453&x=spell+%3D+%22Vile+Gas%22%0D%0A

you've got a mess at the beginning (make sure your range is fast to spread out, they don't need to all run in from the same spot) but even after that there are a couple of cases of more than 3 being hit, for example:

[22:00:13.148] Direwrath afflicted by Vile Gas from Festergut
[22:00:13.260] Tínydancer afflicted by Vile Gas from Festergut
[22:00:13.260] Sistersue afflicted by Vile Gas from Festergut
[22:00:13.372] Klatz afflicted by Vile Gas from Festergut

[22:00:13.148] Direwrath afflicted by Vile Gas from Festergut
[22:00:13.260] Tínydancer afflicted by Vile Gas from Festergut
[22:00:13.260] Sistersue afflicted by Vile Gas from Festergut
[22:00:13.372] Klatz afflicted by Vile Gas from Festergut

jstaley02
03-15-2010, 06:47 AM
hey man, seems you were having a similar problem to us, squeezing out the necessary dps and deciding how to deal with the mechanics.

we actually only got our first kill last night, but we are very casual (2 nights a week) and arent as geared as the majority of ur guild.


our way of handling the fight is 5 healers. the minimum people allowed at range is 8, so we put our weak casters and 4 out of 5 healers on the tank, leaving hunters, best casters and 1 healer (marked) at range.

the 7 dps at range collapse at the marked healer. if 2 spores at range, one spore will stay on his own and only spore buff himself, the second spore at range gives to all ranged players. if we got 2 at melee, or even 3 sometimes, one to the marked healer, one run away, one on the tank.

worked very well and we got him down, i hope this helps

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/3y5x0udnx1xkpk8i/dashboard/?s=4990&e=5284

thats the log of our kill. take a gander. if anyone else fancies having a look and giving some tips, ill gladly pass them on.

remembered ur deaths were to blight also, couple tips 1.) holy pala shadow aura + aura mastery, it is resistable and helps lots.
2.) paladin divine sacrifice is excellent, we have a retri div sac the first, and a holy pala div sac and aura mastery the second one

MercurioBlue
03-15-2010, 11:41 PM
Thank you for the feedback, Shortypop and Jstaley.

We had all six healers standing in melee range, so their heals wouldn't get interrupted. I think with 6 healers the healers were kinda bored (as evidenced by a couple of the healers popping off DPS spells here and there). If we bring a healer with a good DPS set, and the other healers are solid, we'll five heal it next time and see how much more DPS we can do. Either that, or 6 heal it, but have a couple resto druids stand at ranged and have ranged DPS that suffer the most from movement, stand in melee range.

The expose armor thing was my bad. We didn't have a warrior for that fight so I had Expose Armor duty.

I did tell the ranged people to hug the walls and sneak into the room before the pull, but they might have been clumped while running to the range spot. I will tell them to spread out more.

I'll have to check how many paladins in the guild are specced for Divine Guardian. I know we had at least one of our paladins with Divine Guardian popping a /cast Divine Sacrifice /cancelaura Divine Sacrifice macro during heavy raid damage. It works like a charm. =)