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Eatbrainz
03-03-2010, 01:25 PM
I joined what I thought was a semi-hardcore 2-3 day a week 10m guild working on building up to a 25m in ICC about three months ago. The guild was started by a group of RL friends who had raided together in BC and they had put together one really good 10m group, with the other comprised of lesser geared, experienced players.

The guild wasn't very structured. Nearly everyone had the power to invite and kick so there were a fair amount of new 80s/undergeared players that just never raided with us. Soon a lot of drama began to happen which culminated in our top healer quitting and taking a bunch of dps with him. I stayed only for the GL who is an excellent tank and raid leader, despite being pretty passive during conflict. However, those people leaving started even more drama within the group of RL friends who are now split down the middle. The GL passed lead to his RL best friend and our top DPS. The new GL stripped everyone of their privileges and instituted a ranking system, he came up with new stricter guild rules, and chose new officers, myself included.

It all looks very good and on the outside the guild is very well structured now, but nothing is really enforced. There are a lot of empty threats, the other officers refer anyone with questions or discrepancies to me, and there is an undercurrent of resentment emanating from half of the members. I'm not really sure how it happened or why they chose me, but I am basically running the guild now behind the GL who is rarely online now because of work and being in this guild is beginning to feel like much more trouble than it is worth.

I am very confused. I don't know if I should stick it out, but resign my position and basically force the GL and other officers to step up or if I should quit and find a different guild with clearly defined and upheld structure without all the conflict that having real life friends in a serious raiding guild can bring. I want to raid and I don't mind leading, but basically rebuilding a guild from the ground up with already edgy and somewhat combative members is a little ridiculous, I think.

What would you do?

Labguy23
03-04-2010, 02:14 PM
If your current GL isn't around at all, you are pretty much doomed. Whenever I hear about a GL "stepping back" or "taking a break," it's generally followed with news about the guild dissolving the next week.

You also aren't very specific about what the "drama" is. That would be helpful in trying to suggest a course of action.


In general, I find it's very easy for people to be critical as long as they aren't responsible for the solution. When people come to you complaining, ask them how they would fix it. If they give you an idea, tell them you'll support them as they present that idea to the rest of the guild.

It's right about then they get real quiet and start doing what you ask of them.

Acheronia
03-05-2010, 01:22 AM
The answer depends on how much you are willing to do for this guild. Remember that this game shouldn't suck the joy of life out of you. You shouldn't have to sit with your head in your hands over a guild that you're not wanting to invest blood, sweat and tears into working. Ask yourself a couple of questions: Do I mind being GL of this guild? Do I mind carrying on with things as they are? Would I leave the guild for another guild? Would I leave the guild and form a new guild with the people that follow me?

Wait for the guild leader to come back and have a talk with him about your concerns. Maybe he'll tell you to take over the guild. Maybe he'll tell you to buzz off. Maybe he'll tell you to keep what you're doing. Or maybe he'll make you 2ic and tell you to fix everything.

Whatever the outcome of that conversation is, take it to the officers.

It's a sticky and unpleasant situation you found yourself in and I do not envy you.

Eatbrainz
03-07-2010, 11:06 AM
You also aren't very specific about what the "drama" is. That would be helpful in trying to suggest a course of action.

It started with a discrepancy over loot rules during a 25m run. We were employing free rolls with mainspec > offspec > DE /BoP = BoE since we were half guild and half pugs. The BoE leather chest dropped off of DBS and the only person who could use it was a rogue (the currently GL) but a boomkin rolled too and won the piece since the raid leader (former GL) told him privately that he could roll for feral which was his mainspec and he was offspeccing boomkin. After lots and lots of arguing the boomkin kept refusing to equip it and ended up selling it for about 10k gold later that night. That incident created a pretty clear line down the middle of the guild.

Not two days after amends had been made and everyone was starting to get along, the top healer and an officer got into an argument about whether or not new 80s should be allowed in heroics. The officer was being elitist and only wanted to random with other geared players and the healer argued that everyone had to start somewhere. The officer ended up getting so worked up that he kicked the healer. Then a bunch of dps gquit.

Those two incidences set the change of guild leadership in motion. We (myself and the current GL) convinced the healer and most of the dps to come back and the officer is now on probabation and I have him on ignore because he whines about not being an officer anymore constantly. The GL is still deciding whether or not to kick him since he's in the guild with several of his RL friends and the GL is afraid that they'll leave.


Thank you for the tip about asking them for a solution. I think that will be very helpful.

@Acheronia
Those are all the questions going through my mind. It's difficult to decide.

Eraser
03-08-2010, 11:49 PM
To me it sounds like you guys are in alot of trouble! If it doesn't get resolved soon the good ship HMS Yourguild may just sink. It sounds like someone has to put their foot down and say enough is enough if it were up to me, I'd kick that officer, being in a guild is about being in a team - meaning helping out those who need help, and striving for greater achievements together or not at all. If all of his irl mates leave, then so be it, to me it sounds like you'll be in a better position. Alternatively, you can have a chat with the person and just say "look stop being a douchebag or else you leave us with no choice."

A better idea:- Organize an officer/guildleader meeting.
- Come up with a set of rules and guild policies. If a complete set is formed post on guild site/forums/whatever and get everyone to read them.
- Talk about current problems.
- Come to a resolutions.
- Implement resolutions.

Crommi
03-09-2010, 05:43 AM
If your current GL isn't around at all, you are pretty much doomed. Whenever I hear about a GL "stepping back" or "taking a break," it's generally followed with news about the guild dissolving the next week.
This is one of the reasons why I'm not a huge fan of the usual guild-structure where Guildmaster sits on top and manages everything. If something he goes on a vacation or something like that, it's difficult to give reins to someone else who has experience or knowledge of what needs to be done. We have three Officers and Advisory board who run the guild, meaning one officer going on vacation won't have any effect and even if they all disappeared, Advisory board can step in and run the guild until situation is solved and new officers are nominated. Our GM doesn't get involved into daily stuff like running raids due to ~12h timezone difference but he is still well respected and his word carries a lot of weight. Overall, it is a very effective and "fail-safe" system that has stand the test of time, all the way from Molten Core to Ice Crown Citadel and beyond.

Shortypop
03-09-2010, 05:54 AM
One of the things I've learnt and a big reason why I am not an officer in my current guild is that anyone in a leadership role has to be prepared to make the tough choices and do something that may be seen as unpopular by some of the guild, if people threaten lots but never carry through with demotion or gkick then guildies are going to start to see how much they can get away with. If you decide to stay make sure some basic rules are drawn up and stick to them, it's much easier for people to "pull in the same direction" if they 1. know what direction that is and 2. know that everyone else is puliing the same way.

Also, remember the quiet people, you may be afraid of gkicking the noisy whiny ones but what about those solid, quiet types, they probably won't make a huge noise, but they might well be feeling "but he got away with it" and may one day up and leave (and who would blame them). Clean breaks are better than festering problems - as long as communication is free flowing.

**hug**

Labguy23
03-09-2010, 12:44 PM
This is one of the reasons why I'm not a huge fan of the usual guild-structure where Guildmaster sits on top and manages everything. If something he goes on a vacation or something like that, it's difficult to give reins to someone else who has experience or knowledge of what needs to be done. We have three Officers and Advisory board who run the guild, meaning one officer going on vacation won't have any effect and even if they all disappeared, Advisory board can step in and run the guild until situation is solved and new officers are nominated. Our GM doesn't get involved into daily stuff like running raids due to ~12h timezone difference but he is still well respected and his word carries a lot of weight. Overall, it is a very effective and "fail-safe" system that has stand the test of time, all the way from Molten Core to Ice Crown Citadel and beyond.

Our guild does something very similar. We have 3 man teams that run loot, raiding, and recruiting. They all operate independent of the GM.

I'm part of the raid team. It's really nice when someone complains about loot to just reply with "that's not my department; talk to person X."

Bashal
03-09-2010, 01:05 PM
...got into an argument about whether or not new 80s should be allowed in heroics...

That's ridiculous.

If you want to tough it out and see how this all ends, take the advice above, it's all decent. If you feel like none of this is worth the effort... bail. Since RL friends are involved, bail politely.

Fledern
03-09-2010, 01:12 PM
Welcome to the REAL world of officership :) Enjoy your pain :P

That aside, here are a few tips i found very useful (we tend to have quite a bit of similar drama - and i, while not being the GM, do take a very very VERY active part in running the guild/making the rules, so i can relate)

1. Tell your raiders: "If you're not part of the solution, STFU/GTFO". Works a charm
2. In case somebody does actually have solutions, options, listen to them, and listen really well
3. When somebody comes to you with a solution, play the devil's advocate to see if there are any holes, if there are not, implement it and give him full credit publicly
4. Most important of all: If you're ever afraid of kicking somebody or somebody gquitting, recruit right the hell now. Officers should NEVER be held hostage to qq.

Eatbrainz
03-13-2010, 03:29 PM
After yet another two drama filled incidents, I have left the guild I was in and am going to start up a 10 man only guild with two in game friends that focuses on getting through heroic modes. Thank you for all of the comments and advice.