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View Full Version : Tanking Glyph of Indomitability vs The Black Heart



Doomsoul
03-01-2010, 09:47 PM
I'm a DK tank and Currently I'm using:

The Glyph of Indomitability
http://www.wowarmory.com/item-info.xml?i=47735

and

The Black Heart
http://www.wowarmory.com/item-info.xml?i=47216

This week however, I'll be replacing one of them with

Corroded Skeleton Key
http://www.wowarmory.com/item-info.xml?i=50356


My problem is that I'm not sure which one to replace for melee raid bosses. I'm leaning towards keeping The Black Heart, and I'm wondering if it's the right choice. The way I'm looking at it is as follows:

With the glyph I get a constant 1792 armor and a situational dodge buff on a 2 min cooldown.

With the Black Heart I get 1430 health and a random effect that buffs my armor by 7056 for 10 seconds once every 45 seconds or so. If I'm conservative and say that the effect occurs once per minute, then that appears to be an average armor increase of 1176 during the fight.

So in other words, it appears that with one I get 1430 health and 1176 armor, and the other gives me 1792 armor and a 5% dodge buff for 20 seconds once every 2 mins.

Am I wrong in replacing the Glyph even though it's a much higher level item?

Aggathon
03-01-2010, 10:09 PM
The uptime of the black heart is something like 10%, so when it's up it's REALLY ridiculously good, the problem is it's not up that often and you're kinda floating things to the RNG gods. To an extent you can make those average armor calculations, but you have to weigh the fact that the buff won't be up and you're not getting a constant ~1k armor. The Glyph of Indom is constant and is more EHP than the black heart.

Run with the skeleton key and glyph of indominability imo.

MellvarTank
03-02-2010, 08:32 AM
Run with the skeleton key and glyph of indominability imo.

Seconded.

anra
03-11-2010, 05:07 PM
well - shouldnt the fights be taken into account as well ? A lot of tankswapping going on in ICC, or similar 'the boss aint hitting u'-time. I personally would prefer the black heart over the glyph for fights like eg marrowgar, because the chances u will get the armour proc within the first few seconds of engaging marrowgar after a bonestorm should be pretty high, and thats when u are most likely to die due to healers repositioning themselves or co-tanks lagging so u dont get to share the cleave - whereas a fight like festergut makes black heart pretty darn useless because the trinket will probably be on cool down when u need it the most. Black heart doesnt give u a bit of armour constantly, it gives u loads of armour for a short period of time, imo making it great for the fights where u spend a lot of the trinket's down time on not tanking anyways

I must admit im not keeping logs or looking at caches after a fight, so i have no numbers to support my opinion (if anyone can direct me to somewhere where the proc of various trinkets has been noted down i'd be thankfull) - it just seems to me that the black heart should not be considered as a trinket with an average amount of armour, but as a trinket that can increase ur EH significantly once every min or so

Aggathon
03-11-2010, 07:40 PM
To my knowledge the ICD of the black heart is really low if it exists at all, it's just that the proc chance is so low that it leaves it to ~a 10% uptime.

The static armor is better. I mean yes, 7k armor +100ish stam is amazing, but the proc rate is jsut too low to justify it.

Evendeth
03-13-2010, 08:02 AM
Run with the skeleton key and glyph of indominability imo. Seconded.


Would you say the same for bear tanks?

Aggathon
03-13-2010, 08:34 AM
Would you say the same for bear tanks?

Given the above options, yes. Bears get more out of stam than any other class, and since armor's value is increased by stam, they subsequently get more benefit out of armor too. Really, all tank priorities are pretty much the same with a few minor variations.

Evendeth
03-13-2010, 08:56 AM
Given the above options, yes. Bears get more out of stam than any other class, and since armor's value is increased by stam, they subsequently get more benefit out of armor too. Really, all tank priorities are pretty much the same with a few minor variations.

Thanks the feedback is much appreciated. I've always felt running with the key and glyph was the best combination. Except for some specific fights,magic vs melee etc...

One last question. Would you still take the glyph over the scarab for your everyday tanking in bear? I just like to hear the opinions.

Aggathon
03-13-2010, 09:01 AM
Negative, the scarab is more EHP than the glyph and I like the cooldown better.

Evendeth
03-13-2010, 09:34 AM
Thanks the feedback is much appreciated. I've always felt running with the key and glyph was the best combination. Except for some specific fights,magic vs melee etc...

One last question. Would you still take the glyph over the scarab for your everyday tanking in bear? I just like to hear the opinions.

Thanks. Might as well cover all bases here. For general purposes I guess we can say:

Skeleton Key > Scarab > Glyph > Black Heart

Aggathon
03-13-2010, 10:40 AM
I actually like the 258 scarab/jug's vit over the skeleton key because I think the cooldown makes jug's vit better.

Bodasafa
03-13-2010, 10:48 AM
Yes the use is basically +400 stam. Currently I use the Scarb and Key, but also have the Organ. I'm trying to figure out the best one to drop for the organ and on what fights. The up time on the organ seems decent but the amount of stacks are randomish.

Spiff
03-14-2010, 12:26 PM
On the fights I've played around with the organ I've noticed the stacks falling off alot. I feel like alot of the fights in ICC, especially with tank swaping, that the organ really doesn't get to shine like it should, not to mention most of the bosses you use one tank are pretty slow swinging. Fights like princes when i'm tanking both melee mobs its AWESOME, but when i'm on something that hits slowly but I can really feel it, I feel like the stacks are falling off before reaching potential. I think what we should look at is the average amount of stacks on a per-fight basis, to get a rough EHP value for the trinket. Has anyone looked at which fights the organ really shines?

Raysere
03-14-2010, 01:40 PM
I actually like the 258 scarab/jug's vit over the skeleton key because I think the cooldown makes jug's vit better.

The beauty of the Scarab's use is that it converts some of the huge amount of overhealing you'll undoubtedly be receiving into effective healing. The Key provides a higher amount of on demand extra points of health, but that doesn't really compensate for the extra healing done to you during the Scarab's uptime. I see a lot of peopel underestimate the Scarab's use effect. I'd personaly take Heroic Scarab over Key if faced with a straight up choice between the two.

TheAlmighty
03-16-2010, 06:29 AM
I'm using Black Heart and Fervor of the Frostborn (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47727).
I have the badges for the The Glyph of Indomitability
http://www.wowarmory.com/item-info.xml?i=47735

After reading this thread. I'm starting to second guess myself and feel the need to put those badges to use. It'll be awhile before the skele key, as I have ~36 frost emblems and I was gunning for the gloves.

drae
03-16-2010, 07:40 AM
Get the glyph, fervor of the frostborn is one of the worst tanking trinkets in recent content.

MellvarTank
03-16-2010, 07:40 AM
The glyph > fervor of the frostborn.