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View Full Version : Tanking Bears, Plate Tanks and Armor.



Riposoeterno
02-26-2010, 05:11 PM
How has the changes to the plate tank sets (more armor) affected the position of bear tanks?

I understand that armor is a key stat in ICC and doesn't that somewhat trivialise one of the advantages bear tanks had? Most plate tanks I know don't care for the stats they've lost on the pieces and our pala tank now has more armor than me (33.2k UB vs 32.5k UB). I know we still have a much larger pool of HP but I do see this as a kick in the nuts for bears a little.



Thoughts?

Dragaan
02-28-2010, 02:34 AM
Bears tanks are VERY strong atm. Top-geared bears right now have ~70-72k hp raid-buffed. They also have a 1min cooldown and a mini shieldwall as their 4p t10. Nothing wrong with bears atm. By far the highest hp pool and great cooldowns = win.

Satorri
03-01-2010, 05:41 AM
I agree, Armor is not the sole strength of Bears, it just isn't necessarily their advantage any more. It is *possible* for plate wearers to surpass Bears on that front, but it doesn't diminish their already strong tanking advantages.

Dragaan
03-02-2010, 05:34 AM
It is *possible* for plate wearers to surpass Bears on that front...

Yeah, I already hit 40k unbuffed in my armor gear. By the end of the teir, I should be close to 42k. :|

I feel like a bear!

Proletaria
03-03-2010, 03:25 PM
I felt like a bear in all the badge armor gear.

Then I watched our dps feral go bear form and pop SI for kicks and break 100k in welfare purps + auction house epics... I cried a little.

Leucifer
03-03-2010, 04:42 PM
Can't lie. I've seen some bear tanks really rolling as of late. So long as they have a buttload of health.... they literally roll in like a rabid bear tearing up stuff.

Proletaria
03-04-2010, 03:02 AM
Swipe spam clears trash and heroics almost as fast (but certainly not as safely) as a prot pally. That being said, give me a bear tank for progression content any day of the week. Unless it's a hard-enrage kill-shot, chances are a bear can survive it.

My bear has more ilvl 232 gear than anything at the moment and he's already approaching the 50k mark (no pvp gear mind-you). That's just incredible considering my BLOOD deathknight with full ilvl 264+ gear rides just at 50k unbuffed or slightly under depending on gearset. The fact bears scale better with buffs just makes things funnier.

Oh and WTB savage defense, pst.

Insahnity
03-04-2010, 09:12 AM
Speaking as a bear, we could be heading towards becoming mana sponges (but not there yet), which is a trap that developers want to be present but hope that the smart tanks avoid by gearing selection/modification. This will be more so in Cataclysm, the concept of allowing mana sponge tanks to exist. We used to have it, but we got away from it, because avoidance was so high. We briefly saw this in the very earliest days of ToC 25, but the way to counter the high TTL of tanks by killing tanks with massive damage before a human could react, was something they felt was not a good thing. We are still going to take a lot of damage, possibly more than a healer can manage, but at least a healer will be given the CHANCE to react. The Chill of the Throne Debuff is a prelude to a permanent avoidance loss in cataclysm, making more constant damage intake easier to balance.

We still have a fair amount of armor, for all that they have chipped away it over the patches. I still prefer high armor over savage defense, but that's just me, we didn't stop becoming viable because of the change. We still have a good amount of dodge, for all the DR and lack of parry. Between savage defense and 1 minute FurWall(tm), and now KotJ with 4pcT10, we seem to manage. However, if they keep buffing plate armour, the average plate tank will eventually trivialize the content and then the developers will be forced to increase the challenge of the content to match plate tanks, and there may be a lag before they realize "Hey, we haven't buffed bears to compensate, they're dropping like flies!". Maybe this is a "the sky is falling" nay saying which is unwarranted, but it's not impossible.

Also, it has been noted that stamina in general will go up for all leather wearers in cataclysm, but the stamina multipler for bear form will go down to compensate. What this does mean is that an ungemmed/unenchanted bear will be the same, but the relative value of gemming/enchanting for stamina will go down (by a fair amount, I wager). The EH gap of a bear will be much closer to Blood DKs.

BTW, for those who want Savage Defense, it will be interesting to see if BearShield Survives in its current form once the cataclysm block changes go through.

Proletaria
03-05-2010, 07:10 PM
My deathknight is closing in on the armor hard-cap without actually seeking armor from trinkets, i'm basically on it with an indy pot....

And i'm still far less effective than a bear. If you think the sky is falling on you, it's only because you're much higher up than we are at present.

gacktt
03-05-2010, 08:28 PM
Bears aren't a mana sponges because it's impossible to oom due to tank damage.

GŁth
03-05-2010, 09:19 PM
Bears aren't a mana sponges because it's impossible to oom due to tank damage.

I believe he means after the Cata stat changes go through, if they keep bear tanking mechanics as-is without revising them to allow more mitigation in comparison to tanks that can Block (30% base mitigation, maybe higher with talents) and Parry (100% mitigation, spread over 2 hits). I could see them changing Savage Defense to a flat % like they're doing to Block, but until more details are released it's all just speculation at this point.

Proletaria
03-05-2010, 09:46 PM
it's all just speculation at this point.

Exactly.