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View Full Version : Tanking Looking for Prot Warrior AOE Tanking Build



Ursaul
02-26-2010, 09:12 AM
So i find myself duel spec'd with a Tanking main spec and a Fury offspec. With the heavy melee train my guild runs it's hard to gear for Fury and be effective. Not to mention how terrible I am with it. In an effort to keep my Locks/Hunters alive I am looking for people to post good AOE tanking build (or the best a warrior can get) for my offspec. e.g. Talent calculator link with glyphs. I've been playing with the talent calculator and have some ideas, but I realize there may be people who have already perfected this. Thanks in advance for your help. :cool:

Ursaul
02-26-2010, 09:16 AM
I've already looked through alot of the older posts, but couldnt quite find what i was looking for.

Gordiggan
02-26-2010, 11:32 AM
Personally, I run with an improved cleave build. I've read some posts that state that deep wounds in conjunction with damage shield is a better aoe build, but I've had very good success with improved cleave.

I personally run with a slow one handed DPS weapon for trash for the extra cleave and devestate damage. Usualy max survivability isn't much of an issue on trash so it works out ok. I've been very successful with this on ICC trash specifically, with only having to tab maybe twice to make sure I have aggor on everything. Not to mention the slow one hander+improved cleave+glyph of cleave leads to some very impressive prot warrior DPS numbers :)

Ursaul
02-26-2010, 02:05 PM
Thanks for your reply, i'll look into the cleave build

Do alot of tanks out there run 2 tanking specs?

Aggathon
02-26-2010, 02:57 PM
Thanks for your reply, i'll look into the cleave build

Do alot of tanks out there run 2 tanking specs?

Some do, depending on.

Imo, you can AoE tank just fine with the standard 15/3/53 spec and just make sure to put in glyph of cleaving. You can go the cleave spec, I used it for H-Anub25 adds and some heroics to a good deal of success too, but also have never had any problems using 15/3/53 on anything except anub25.

Muffin Man
02-26-2010, 03:30 PM
I wouldn't recommend it, but if you wanted to dedicate a second spec to trash tanking (which what I'm assuming you mean by AoE builds). I'd try something like this:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LVZGxcZVIxrx0zidIzsGo:Mhfmz0

I'm making a few assumptions here. The main one is you don't mean something Anub Adds, in which case the lack of cooldowns will get you killed. But if you mean pulling everything you see in UK, then this will do fine. It should go without saying that this spec is junk for any raid boss (Valithra doesn't count, not technically a boss...).

But, like Agg said, going all the way to his spec is a little bit of overkill in my book. Even without a threat spec I've been ok on all AoE encounters so far.

dgen
02-26-2010, 03:44 PM
But, like Agg said, going all the way to his spec is a little bit of overkill in my book. Even without a threat spec I've been ok on all AoE encounters so far.
Exactly.

There's nothing wrong with the cookie-cutter 15/3/53 protection spec for AoE tanking - don't bother speccing into Focused Rage for the spec either, it's horrible in all situations vs. the additional 3pts in Shield Spec. that most people leave out to get FR in the first place anyway. Also, if you're AoE tanking, there's no way you'll be rage starved, so yeah, leave out FR, it's bad and always will be.

Impale and Deep Wounds are invaluable and should always be used regardless of your spec. The only time that other talents are more optimal is for ICC hardmodes, where you'd spec something like 5/11/55, for Piercing Howl and Imp. Disarm, which are pretty handy for Deathwhisper, Saurfang, Valithria and LK(mainly Deathwhisper & LK, but they do help a tad during the other fights also).

@Muffin Man, with regards to your linked spec, and I know you said you wouldn't recommend it - I would say keeping the 15/3/53 spec and simply swapping out Glyph of Last Stand / Taunt (depending on which you use), for Glyph of Cleaving, even then, only if you're having trouble in the first place.

Moving right along; use TidyPlates in conjunction with TidyPlates_ThreatPlates. When used together, these addons make it very simple to monitor threat on multiple mobs, by changing the color of the mobs nameplate when you're losing threat on the mob - it's really handy, and my AoE tanking (although previously sufficient) has improved since installing said addon.

Your AoE tanking rotation should be something like;

* Charge - self spoken for.
* Queue/Spam Cleave - People are going to read this and think, "WTF, why would you do this, you'll have no rage to TC/SW!". They're wrong - you'll have minimal rage, but spamming TC/SW while you're spamming Cleave is fine, just ensure that TC/SW go off first, which it should, as Cleave is a next-melee. ('!cast Cleave' - if you want to make a macro, not that's it really necessary).
* Thunderclap - also self spoken for.
* Shockwave - Cone it in the correct direction, keeping in mind that it'll hit all mobs in a ~10yd range.
* Tab + Dev/Rev/SS - cast Devastate on a mob, then tab to the next mob and do the same. It's really effective, easy and helps a lot. Throwing in the occasional Revenge and Shield Slam on CD (or S&B proc) is obviously helpful also.

Hope this helps, email me or add me on MSN @ dgen.joe@live.com if you need more help, I rarely read these forums. ):

Aggathon
02-26-2010, 06:12 PM
don't bother speccing into Focused Rage for the spec either, it's horrible in all situations vs. the additional 3pts in Shield Spec.

That's not entirely accurate. For AoE tanking it's correct, but for single target, point for point focused rage is more efficient.

C°ndemned
02-27-2010, 09:12 AM
The difference makers in my opinion are the glyphs

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LAM00fZhZVIxMx0zidIzsGo:Mcfzom
i used to run that build when all i did was tank heroics made it a hell of a lot easier to hold aoe threat
all u have to do is tab TC,SW n then tab through with devastate

C°ndemned
02-28-2010, 02:13 PM
Yeah, no.

Focused Rage is shit, rage is never a problem - if rage is a problem, and it's making your TPS a problem - your skill is the problem. Don't get bitter, get better.
First off no reason to reply in such a manner
Second revenge is not worth using anymore Dev does more threat and dmg(especially if glyphed which it should be) so you might as well throw the two imp revenge points into Focused Rage

dgen
02-28-2010, 02:41 PM
First off no reason to reply in such a manner
Second revenge is not worth using anymore Dev does more threat and dmg(especially if glyphed which it should be) so you might as well throw the two imp revenge points into Focused RageNobody cares about efficiency, Revenge is just fine - Devastate isn't worth glyphing cause threat is never a problem and because ICC HMs require Glyph of Taunt, Glyph of Shield Wall and Glyph of Last Stand - my reasoning for glyphing Taunt is cause the damage intake doesn't allow flexibility with regards to enchanting and gemming, EHP takes the throne; the other two glyphs are self spoken for if you know your shit. You receive 1 MD or ToT from each of the Hunters and Rogues in your raid, and be done with it.

You should never be getting caught in threat unless it's a fight where DPS get major buffs .. even then, the above method of threat redirection should suffice and/or they generate 0 threat whilst under the effect of the + damage% buff.

I'm speaking from years of tanking experience, not just some random kid trying to act as if he knows it all. I currently raid 11/12 ICC H and there isn't a boss where a DPS is able to catch me, not one.

I replied to someone's question, and I answered it perfectly - it's what I strive to do, help people who aren't as experienced as I am, much like Xav / Quigon's threads helped me become the tank I am today. (I played a Ret Paladin preBC, for 13/15 Naxx).

C°ndemned
03-01-2010, 04:32 AM
Nobody cares about efficiency, Revenge is just fine - Devastate isn't worth glyphing cause threat is never a problem and because ICC HMs require Glyph of Taunt, Glyph of Shield Wall and Glyph of Last Stand - my reasoning for glyphing Taunt is cause the damage intake doesn't allow flexibility with regards to enchanting and gemming, EHP takes the throne; the other two glyphs are self spoken for if you know your shit. You receive 1 MD or ToT from each of the Hunters and Rogues in your raid, and be done with it.

You should never be getting caught in threat unless it's a fight where DPS get major buffs .. even then, the above method of threat redirection should suffice and/or they generate 0 threat whilst under the effect of the + damage% buff.

I'm speaking from years of tanking experience, not just some random kid trying to act as if he knows it all. I currently raid 11/12 ICC H and there isn't a boss where a DPS is able to catch me, not one.

I replied to someone's question, and I answered it perfectly - it's what I strive to do, help people who aren't as experienced as I am, much like Xav / Quigon's threads helped me become the tank I am today. (I played a Ret Paladin preBC, for 13/15 Naxx).

The thread isnt talking about tanking icc hardmodes he wants a better aoe tanking build and in that case your better off tab targeting and hitting the skill that does the most threat(dev) than wasting your time with revenge especially since hes having threat problems

Kazeyonoma
03-01-2010, 11:47 AM
Stay on topic.

Ursaul
03-09-2010, 09:41 AM
The big reason behind this is trash in ICC as we do large group pulls. We run a Prot palladin with myself and either a Druid tank or DK tank. We have... one of the best locks i've ever seen... and he tends to pull threat on untargeted mobs. I use vigilance on him as well and he still is #2 on threat regardless of trash or boss. It was my hopes to save him a repair bill as well as be better for heroic instances when the LFG system pairs you with someone who is trigger happy. I do most of the MT boss duties as I'm built to take a beating, I just seem to stink at trash... i've stopped tab targeting since WOTLK came out. I was merely looking for a quick fix to keep better overall threat on the large groups of mobs we pull. I will definately try some of the items listed above and report back.

Stengel
03-09-2010, 09:52 AM
Impale and Deep Wounds are invaluable and should always be used regardless of your spec. The only time that other talents are more optimal is for ICC hardmodes, where you'd spec something like 5/11/55, for Piercing Howl and Imp. Disarm, which are pretty handy for Deathwhisper, Saurfang, Valithria and LK(mainly Deathwhisper & LK, but they do help a tad during the other fights also).

Why Imp. Disarm, and for what boss specifically?

The Hoof
03-09-2010, 03:30 PM
I agree with those suggesting that the normal 15/3/53 build should be fine for AOE tanking. In my experience the things that help for AOE tanking are the following:

Know how/when to use Thunderclap and Shockwave.

After charging the first mob of a group, let them all come into melee, then pop TC and back up/circle back to make sure they are all in front of you and in a tight little ball, then SW. By the time you've done that TC should be back up so hit it again. Additionally, remember that Shockwave is also a long stun. So if you have mobs that are starting to move towards squishies, you can Shockwave to stop them (and gain some aggro) and then target the ones that are moving and pop a couple devistates on them before the stun wears off.

Macro Cleave to Devistate

I know some folks frown on this, but I find for AOE tanking situations that having Cleave get queued every time I hit devistate helps to ensure you're hitting Cleave as much as possible. I rarely have rage issues doing this.

Beyond those 2 things, you can add in the Glyph of Cleave which does help in larger packs and helps to minimize the amound of tab targeting that you need to do. Judicious use of Vigilance is also recommended.

Muffin Man
03-09-2010, 05:23 PM
The big reason behind this is trash in ICC as we do large group pulls. We run a Prot palladin with myself and either a Druid tank or DK tank.

With this many tanks there should be no reason for you to have to especially focus on AoE tanking. What I did for Hodir worms back in the day was stand 10 feet behind the other tank while he popped the snow packs. Anything that ran past him I would grab either with a SS to the face, a taunt, or a heroic throw. Then when all the worms were out, I'd bring my buddies back to him for the AoE fest.


I do most of the MT boss duties as I'm built to take a beating, I just seem to stink at trash... i've stopped tab targeting since WOTLK came out.

These two are related you know.

You mentioned using an AoE spec in heroics, but there's just no place in a heroic where the number of mobs are so high that you'll need a special spec for it. The tricky aoe packs in heroics are all casters/ranged (HoL, FoS, Occulus), which is a different issue altogether. Start back on the fundamentals, we've all gotten spoiled and lazy... time to retrain for Cataclysm :p.

To follow up my Hodir story. When we felt like rushing, we'd have two tanks pop different snow mounds. Which meant I would pick up all the worms on one mound as a warrior (there's 6 or 7 I believe). And I could do it just fine with some fast nameplate clicking (with the admission that I did a lot of challenging shouting the first few times).

ivp008
03-11-2010, 05:56 AM
I just try to maximize my AoE damage without being paranoid.

I run with deep wounds build


all TC, Shockwave, Damage Shield scale with attack power or strength - I use Darkmoon Card Greatness and Mirror of Truth first and foremost
Cleave hits better with a slow weapon, I have a 2.6 speed from a 10 man gunship battle enchanted with mongoose
I use that setup for ICC and HoR trash

depending on a healer I run most of heroics in my dps gear with the only exeption of a shield
if healer is struggling I have 535 def gear set, fitting as dps gear as I can and swapping items for block rating if I have some.

Half of the success is to learn to claster casters, silence or interupt them them to follow you or just spell reflect to keep them on you till you can go to them and smash their faces ;)
Learn to use shieldblock oftern to make better use of damage shield talent, and learn not to use it when mobs are stunned by shockwave

Use of tidy plates: threat plates helps a lot to be confident what is going on

If something goes loose, just grab it back. Learn to control chaos, not fight it :)

dgen
03-14-2010, 06:25 AM
Why Imp. Disarm, and for what boss specifically?LK Valks, Deathwhisper adds(survivability), Putricide adds .. and a general DPS increase for fights where 15/3/53 wouldn't be -required-.

Stengel
03-14-2010, 09:18 AM
LK Valks, Deathwhisper adds(survivability), Putricide adds .. and a general DPS increase for fights where 15/3/53 wouldn't be -required-.

Imp. Disarm only increases the warrior's own damage as far as I know. Has this changed or are you mistakenly assuming it increases all damage?

Raize
03-14-2010, 01:30 PM
What do other people here tend to use in heroics to complement cleaving for this type of build?

Muffin Man
03-15-2010, 02:35 AM
LK Valks, Deathwhisper adds(survivability), Putricide adds .. and a general DPS increase for fights where 15/3/53 wouldn't be -required-.

I'm confused. Putricide adds? They don't melee, well maybe the orange one but does disarming it really change it from a one-shot when it catches someone? I guess if improved disarm works on them, then 10% dmg would be pretty helpful for nuking them.

Zerzin
03-15-2010, 07:58 AM
Here is what im using AoE Build (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LVZGxcZVItrx0didczsGo:McNmMo)
It works gr8 in icc trash and farming hcs quickly, often ends up higher than dpsers on dmg done during random hc's

MaŔl
03-16-2010, 04:18 AM
I tried cleave with the glyph of during my first days in heroics.
I can't say anything nice about it.
It wasn't effective since it didn't fix the fundamental underlying problems.

If you are a fairly fresh tank then chances are your DPS outgears you. OR if you are a fairly fresh tank you are lacking the experience how to react to what.
Nothing will ever save you switching targets in multiple mob groups. Not the Revenge changes and most certainly not Cleave. There is no silver bullet for it.

There is one thing that can assist you with choosing the right target for the next Dev/SS: get an addon for that.
I'm using TidyPlates with ThreatPlates. It colours the name tags of the mobs according to your threat level. Yellow is always a sign for a much needed threat boost.
Tabbing through mobs is not a very good idea. You might select something of the next mob group. It takes some time before you tab to the target that needs your attention. You should conciously choose your next target.

If mobs run away directly after the pull, tell your group to suck less or let them die. Your healer and you can easily finish any group off in a couple of minutes. Trash hasn't been a damage race since the Corehound Pack Days.
Don't panic if a dps warrior pulls aggro. Arms warriors have no threat reduction and Fury warriors are AE heavy. Both of them can take some punishment and are quite happy with some extra rage. Same goes for DKs and Pallies. All other classes have ways to deal with unwanted attention. If you do your job, switch your targets often and you still lose aggro to DPS then they should really adjust themselves to your tanking.

Just don't expect to find a spec that saves you switching targets. Ain't gonna happen.

Dragaan
03-16-2010, 05:30 AM
What's up with warriors using that 5/13/53 spec with imp cleave? I've never tried it myself, but I really don't see a point... The only thing I can think of it being useful for is deathwhisper add tanking (if you're getting wrecked and need the imp demo). But if you're going to spec solely for deathwhisper offtanking, why not just go piercing howl and kite the damn things? How much extra dps is the imp cleave actually pumping out?

EDIT: Always posting too fast... Yeah, I just noticed the spec a few ppl linked in this thread actually had 5/5 cruelty and not imp demo. I still find it hard to believe that this spec does more aoe damage/threat than the standard deep wounds build. Anyone have a good log showing aoe dps with this spec? (on a boss fight...like deathwhisper, i guess)