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Musclebound
02-24-2010, 07:42 AM
My guild is slowly progressing through Icecrown on 10 man reg. Since the first couple weeks we've been running with two healers, bringing a dual specc'd player that can switch to heals if needed for certain fights (so far, festergut). Our progress has been slow but steady and I feel, as a raid leader, that our team performs more effectively with this setup than with 3 dedicated healers.

Recently I've gotten a couple complaints from one of our healers, that apparently most of his friends in other guilds think 2 healing this raid is a dumb idea for most of the fights. I don't know why he'd question what's clearly working for us but I figured I'd get some input.

For our healing setup we usually run a Holy Paladin, and either a resto shaman or holy priest. We have another Priest who dual specs shadow and holy. So far the only fight where we really felt we NEEDED her to switch to heals was festergut. I'm willing to admit its possible we'll need her to heal more later in the instance, but we haven't gotten past rotface yet. My own experience with healing is very limited, I'm the main tank for our ICC runs, although I have a shammy that's sort of on the back burner, so I don't feel like I can speak with any real authority on our heals setup.

Sitar
02-24-2010, 07:59 AM
We clean ICC 10 arthas included and we use 3 healers on Valithria, Sindragosa and Arthas. It's just safer for those fights in case of bad RNG.

tuffmuffin
02-24-2010, 08:06 AM
Majority of fights can easily be done with 2 healers safely.

While learning or until people get more geared, 3 healers can be beneficial for several fights (Such as Festergut, Blood Council, or Blood Queen)
Three healers should be the norm for Dreamwalker, Sindragosa and Arthas though to be safer (as Sitar said)

Musclebound
02-24-2010, 09:26 AM
Thanks for the input guys. We used to 3 heal marrowgar just so we'd have the backup in case a healer got spiked, but we realized we could deal with him more effectively just by having the tanks blow a cooldown if a healer got spiked. 3 healing festergut was pretty much mandatory for us, but other than that we haven't had trouble yet.

kiseki
02-24-2010, 07:49 PM
I'm actually a big fan of two healing in ICC. Our guild is working on Putricide, and so far we have two healed every fight. We have a shadow priest who has switched to heal on a couple fights to attempt three heals, but it's never made a difference for us. The important thing to keep in mind is that by bringing an extra healer, you are missing a dpser. On fights like Festergut and Rotface this might actually cause you to bump into enrage timers or to have slimes spawning all over the place.

You say that three healing on Festergut is nearly mandatory. May I ask why you found this to be true? We actually found the exact opposite to be the case. Three healing was nearly impossible, but two healing made the fight quite easy.

Musclebound
02-24-2010, 09:07 PM
I'm actually a big fan of two healing in ICC. Our guild is working on Putricide, and so far we have two healed every fight. We have a shadow priest who has switched to heal on a couple fights to attempt three heals, but it's never made a difference for us. The important thing to keep in mind is that by bringing an extra healer, you are missing a dpser. On fights like Festergut and Rotface this might actually cause you to bump into enrage timers or to have slimes spawning all over the place.

You say that three healing on Festergut is nearly mandatory. May I ask why you found this to be true? We actually found the exact opposite to be the case. Three healing was nearly impossible, but two healing made the fight quite easy.

We couldnt keep up with the raid damage and the heavy hits on the tanks with only two healers. With a pally healing both tanks and a shammy healing the raid we tended to have one or two people drop before we could get enough heals on them. Or our tank healer would try and pause for a second to bring somebody in the raid back up and we'd lose the tank. Why that happened, I don't know, maybe it was a reaction issue, maybe their heals just didn't cast fast enough, who knows? Adding a third healer caused the fight to take longer, but gave us the ability to survive it. We' struggled through 3 attempts our first night on festergut before we tried having our shadow priest switch to her heal set. When we did, he dropped like it was nothing. So ever since then we've followed the same strategy, why fix what isn't broken?

bling581
02-25-2010, 09:52 AM
It is possible to 2 heal a lot of the fights but it puts a lot more strain on the healers, and depending on what classes they are they might go OoM a lot faster. We 2 heal the first wing but after that it depends on the boss. There are some RNG mechanics involved with a lot of the bosses that could lead to a wipe with only having 2 healers instead of a possible kill with 3. Some good examples would be Sindragosa, it would really suck if a healer gets the iceblock or the casting debuff in P3. Dreamwalker is definately a 3 healer fight. On BQ I wouldn't want to solo heal while the other is running out with the "fire" or has the Pact of the Darkfallen.

I think it all comes down to skill and what classes you have. Basically it comes down to if you can do it just fine with 3 healers why put extra strain and possible RNG wipes with only having 2.

marklar
02-25-2010, 12:07 PM
you actually have a perfect setup, imo. 2 dedicated healers, and 1 person who can offspec heal. that way, you can change as the fight demands. right now, we use:

marrowgar: 2 (have done with 1)
LDW: 2
gunship: 2
saurfang: 2 (have done with 1)
festergut: 2 or 3 (2 only if both can stand on melee)
rotface: 3
prof p: 2
princes: 3
vampire: 3
dreamwalker: 4 (trying 3 this week)
sindragosa: 2 (working on it still)

update: forgot about fights we've solo healed

Quinafoi
02-25-2010, 12:52 PM
you actually have a perfect setup, imo. 2 dedicated healers, and 1 person who can offspec heal.

Strictly speaking, all healers should have a second spec. And short of a priest, it likely won't be two healing specs. Instead of one DPS that can heal, I would recommend instead have about 2 or 3 healers that can DPS. This gives you more general flexibility. Say you run with a druid, priest, and shaman. Say the priest has a shadow spec, shaman has enhancement, and druid has feral. Depending on the encounter, if you chose to run with 2 healers, which healer DPS may be different. A fight like Festergut, Saurfang, or Blood Queen you would likely want the priest to DPS (assuming you didn't run with 3, not saying you should) because these fights have quotas for how many people should stand at range. On a different fight like Rotface you may want the shaman or druid to be melee DPS and provide an additional raid synergy for your melee.

Currently we use...

Lord Marrowgar: 2
Lady Deathwhisper: 2
Gunship: 2
Deathbringer Saurfang: 2 (though we are considering droping to 1 now)
Festergut: 3 (only have 2 ranged DPS)
Rotface: 2
Professor Putricide: 3 (dps isn't a problem for us so we approach this fight with more healing)
Blood Prince Council: 3
Blood Queen Lana'thel: 3
Valinthria Dreamwalker: 4 or 5 (we have a lot of hybrids and plenty of DPS to run very high healers and make the fight faster)
Sindragosa: 3 (haven't killed it yet)

Stymie
02-25-2010, 12:56 PM
We run with a Holy Pally and a Resto Druid who heal full time. We have an ele / resto Shaman as our swing DPS / heals (We also have a shadow priest with a healing spec and gear, but that's only used if someone else is MIA).

Marrowgar: 2
LDW: 2
Gunship: 2
Saurfang: 2 (considering doing 1)
Festergut: 2
Rotface: 2
Putricide: 2
Blood Princes: 3
BQL: 2
Valithria Dreamwalker: 3
Sindragosa: 3 (had too much RNG crap with ice Tombs + Unchained Magic when running two heals)
Lich King: 3

Musclebound
02-25-2010, 01:12 PM
Glad to hear that I'm not completely off base with our raid setup. For a little clarification, here's what our raid makeup generally looks like :
Prot/arms warrior (me)
Prot/Holy Paladin (2nd tank)
Enhance/resto Shaman
Ret Paladin
Destro Warlock
Marks Hunter
Balance/feral Druid
Holy/prot Paladin (heals)
Holy/shadow Priest


our last slot is usually up in the air from week to week, usually we have either another shaman or a resto druid filling in our last spot. Occasionally we run a disc/holy priest instead of our holy pally,depends on if our pally healer gets bored and wants to do something different. He plays both extremely well.

Our main issue right now is, the resto druid that occasionally fills in our 3rd spot doesn't dps and is trapped in a "throw hots and forget it" mentality of healing. She never uses nourish at all. Which means she's fine until somebody takes massive burst dmg (say, mark of the fallen champion from DBS). We have so many good healers and tanks, that the only thing preventing us from running a second raid team or moving to 25s is lack of geared, competent dps (I require 4.5k single target to be considered for ICC 10, the dps players that have become part of the core usually average around 6k) and lack of time for me or our GM to organize them. Needless to say I get pretty flustered trying to rotate our healers and tanks around, trying to give everyone a fair shot until we can groom a leader for a second team. I'm at least thankful that we don't have the tank and healer shortage that most other guilds seem to deal with!

Henstyć
02-25-2010, 01:46 PM
As many have already mentioned, a lot of the fights can be done with 2 solid healers.

We run 3 healers with 2 of the healers that have a good dps offspec. Holy Paladin, Resto Sham and Druid.

Setup:
Tanks, Death Knight, Paladin
Melee: Death Knight, Warrior
Ranged: Shadow Priest, Warlock, Hunter
Healers: Paladin, Shaman, Druid

Here's a list of how many healers we run for each fight

Regular
----------
Marrowgar: 2
Lady Deathwhisper: 2
Gunship: 2
Saurfang: 1 (Pally on tank and nova dot, dps zerg)
Festergut: 2
Rotface: 2
Putricide: 2
Blood Princes: 2 (Pally on two right tanks, Shaman on caster tank and raid)
Blood Queen: 3
Valithria Dreamwalker: 3 (Done with 2 before but faster fight with 3)
Sindragosa: 3 (Lot of randomness with phase 3 unchained magic and ice tombs, so safer to run with 3)
Lich King: 2 (Safer with 3 since there's a good chance you'll have a healer in the other realm with only 1 healer outside for phase 4, but our group kills most of the exploding adds fast)

Heroic
----------
Marrowgar: 3 (So much RNG with the bone spikes in whirlwind phase on healers, I can't see it being done with 2 with the current gear)
Lady Deathwhisper: 3 (Should be doable with 2 if no one takes unnecessary damage)
Gunship: 2
Saurfang: 2 (Our main tank Paladin goes healing with the other holy pally and the other 2 healers go dps, a warrior dps goes tanking)
...

LogisticSaucer
02-26-2010, 10:42 AM
On normal, we 2 heal all fights except:

Queen - this one feels like we're actually very close to being able to 2 heal.
Valithria - as others have mentioned, easily accomplished with 2 but faster with 3
Sindragosa - 2 or 3. Depends on the quality of the healers / group / presence of FrR gear
Arthas - 3. Can see this being possible with 2 although it would be quite the dice roll. It would be rather nice having an add'l ranged to deal with spirits, though.

I've got pretty limited experience on heroic.

Marrowgar - definitely 3 although we suck terribly at this fight anyways
LDW - 2. Pretty easy. Only danger is when a healer gets MC'd and something happens to the other. Our Hpala would get MCd and stun the priest, por ejemplo
Gunship - 2
Saurfang - 2. Need the muscle.

jonnyV
02-26-2010, 01:46 PM
MY group has been doing 2 heals up to lich king. shammy and druid. for lich king we have the shadow priest go dsc for the bubbles.
but we do also have a ret pally and a boomchicken and a shadow priest in the goup and they can all heal if @#$@% hits the fan.
For the dream dragon the druid stays out and heals raid and we have the shammy and the boomchicken go into the portals first and then the chicken will stay out when the mobs start getting tuff.

for Sindragosa I solo tank it in 442 frost res gear and 2 heals it. she dies before i even start to get hurt bad. last week she died and i was only at 17 stacks

tanks are pally and a warrior.

Aerna
02-27-2010, 06:08 AM
We 2 heal normal mode as druid/priest ( mostly disc, but occasionaly holy ). If we have an hybrid with us, we 3 heal valithria ( quicker ) and sindragosa ( safer )

For heroic mode

Marrowgar : 3
Lady : 2
Saurfang : 2
Festergut : 2
Rotface : 2
Putricide : 2
Blood Council : 3
Blood Queen : 2-3, we used 2 first week, but since the dps requirement are quite low it's safer with 3.
Valithria : 3
Sindragosa : 3
LK : Didn't tried yet