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View Full Version : Tanking Am I speccing and gearing properly?



Zakttayr
02-21-2010, 11:17 PM
My guild is working on ICC 25 and having troubles, and sometimes that trouble lies in a tank death. As far as I can tell I'm doing my job right with when to hit cooldowns and how to hold threat. I'm not sure if I've been speccing and gearing correctly though. I have trouble holding threat without a MD or TotT, is this normal for dk's in ICC?

Thanks for your time

Zak

armoury link: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Twisting+Nether&cn=Zakttayr

Harmacy
02-22-2010, 01:02 AM
Spec: You need 5/5 Blade Barrier (1% mitigation for 1 talent point, why wouldn't you take this?) and 5/5 Bladed Armor (huge chunk of AP for threat) and, since you're using a 2h, 2/2 2H spec (again, huge chunk of threat). Necrosis and Ravenous Dead do you very little good as a tank. Icy Talons doesn't really benefit you either, although if you don't have a Frost DPS DK or an Enh Sham in the raid I can see why you take it.

Are you using single-disease for raid bosses? It can work, but if you run into threat problems you're better off with two diseases to buff your Obliterate and Blood Strike.

Gear: Wrong rune. Even if you're over 540 from gear alone, you should still use SSG for the extra HP (the defense adds a decent amount of avoidance as well).

Gems are all over the place. Get the armor meta (32 stam 2% armor), get rid of those hit gems (you're already way over the hit cap, why gem hit?), never ever gem parry. Your expertise is very low, replace those str/stam gems for exp/stam. I would recommend replacing Corpse Tongue Coin for tanking hard-hitting raid bosses, a stamina or armor trinket would serve you better than a dodge one.

Zakttayr
02-22-2010, 01:33 AM
Thank you for the critique. I'll get to work on this right away.

I Do need to incorporate Icy Talons since raid buffs lack the melee haste. We don't have any enhance shamans now, and the dk's are all unholy. I do my best to keep both diseases up for Obliterate. I don't blood strike often, I just try to keep the proc up. Gear wise I was told not to stack stam and to add parry, though I didn't like the idea I went for the parry rune. It's nice to hear I was right going with SSG.

I'll regem and re-fine tune. Thank you for your advice.

Miste
02-22-2010, 06:59 AM
Your expertise is way too low. You need to be close to 26 expertise to keep up your single target threat. Replace those str/stam gems with exp/stam.

Get rid of all those hit/stam gems. You only need 264 hit rating for 2H frost. Everything else is wasted itemization points. Replace all of them with +30 stam.

Your spec needs a little more work. Try this instead: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EMZGxxxhbIkc0buzAo0g:ksa

Use Deathchill on your first oblit for the boss. That should give you a nice boost at the beginning. Don't be afraid to pop UA at the beginning, especially if you know the fight won't threaten your health for the next 60 seconds.

Replace the Corpse Tongue Coin with Glyph of Indomitability. The armor will help your threat a little and smooth out incoming damage. Plus the on-use is really nice at the beginning of a fight to get the rune strikes flowing.

Selene
02-22-2010, 11:14 AM
Expertise is way low and Hit Rating is way high.
Need to do the following changes with gems:
Helm: Expertise/Stam.
Neck: Expertise/Stam.
Shoulders: Def/Stam.
Cloak: Def/Stam or Stam, enchant with 225 Armor.
Chest: Def/Stam, enchant with 275 Health.
Weapon: Use http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=62158 using the one you have, you are cheating yourself out of 25 Defense which is more or less 3% total avoidance and 2% stamina for 4% parry which is a lousy trade off.
Gloves: Def/Stam.
Belt: Expertise/Stam or Stam.
Legs: Expertise/Stam.
Boots: Expertise/Stam or Stam.
Ring1: Def/Stam or Stam.
Ring2: Expertise/Stam or Stam.

General rule for Tanks regarding gems.
Never use Orange color gems. Only use Yellow color if you need Defense to get to the Cap. Only use Red if you need Expertise BAD.
Green color: Hit/Stam or Def/Stam (only gem hit to 263 no more if you are gemming for hit).
Purple color: Expertise/Stam or Dodge/Stam (only gem expertise to 26 if you are gemming for expertise).
Blue: Stamina of course.

Regarding the proposed changes of your hit/stam to def/stam might want to look at your hit rating without the sword equipped. And base you changes off of that, so when you get a different weapon, you don't hit starve yourself. But for a DK tank about 175ish is the lowest I would go on hit rating, with 200 be preferred imo.

Need to change your glyphs.
Get rid of Dark Death and Vampiric Blood.
Use Oblit (core of Frost regardless if you are DPS or a Tank).
Icy Touch or Howling Blast.
Frost Strike or Rune Strike.

For spec, I would recommend a tweak to http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EMZhxxxAbIzc0buzAo0x
You want Killing Machine, the procs help with getting threat. Chill of the Grave will help with RP generation. Icy Reach is a waste (move closer), and Morbidity is more of a Heroics talent imo.

MrMooky
02-22-2010, 12:22 PM
Selene, why do you suggest tanks always get the hit cap? It's not needed for a tank to reach the hit cap. The only thing a tank really needs hit for is when you're on a boss that landing a taunt is a must. In which case, you should just glyph for it for that specific fight.

Selene
02-22-2010, 01:42 PM
Selene, why do you suggest tanks always get the hit cap? It's not needed for a tank to reach the hit cap. The only thing a tank really needs hit for is when you're on a boss that landing a taunt is a must. In which case, you should just glyph for it for that specific fight.

Because I have been paired up with Tanks that had no hit rating and were relying on the Glyph to to Taunt, and having to suffer extra stacks of debuff, even wiping because they missed their Taunt. This was me stopping all attacks except weapon swings, and they still couldn't get aggro from me.

So I advocate trying to be close to the Hit Cap if possible.

MrMooky
02-22-2010, 01:49 PM
Because I have been paired up with Tanks that had no hit rating and were relying on the Glyph to to Taunt, and having to suffer extra stacks of debuff, even wiping because they missed their Taunt. This was me stopping all attacks except weapon swings, and they still couldn't get aggro from me.

So I advocate trying to be close to the Hit Cap if possible.

Sounds more like they were just bad tanks, regardless of hit rating.

Aggathon
02-22-2010, 01:54 PM
Sounds more like they were just bad tanks, regardless of hit rating.

I agree with you completely. If you HAVE to land a taunt, I have a breakdown in my guide of just how much you use, basically it comes down to if you use hit food and in a raid situation you really only need 118 hit (or 92 if you are alliance and have a draenai). I got 121 hit from just 3 pieces of gear, pop in a glyph and I never miss. Relying on glyph of taunt is not a bad thing, and you sacrifice way too much survivability to hit the caps otherwise.

Also if you want a taunt to never miss without glyph of taunt or any raid buffs or hit food, you need 446 hit. That is just ludicrous to go after imo.

MrMooky
02-22-2010, 04:42 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but even if dark command misses, he should most likely have death grip up. I know death grip won't launch a boss towards you, but the taunt effect of it would still work on it.

Harmacy
02-23-2010, 12:57 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but even if dark command misses, he should most likely have death grip up. I know death grip won't launch a boss towards you, but the taunt effect of it would still work on it.

Death Grip is a Mocking Blow effect I believe - meaning it simply forces the target to attack you but does not generate any threat. Taunts work by bumping up your threat to slightly higher than their current target's.

It's an option for taunt misses, gives you a few seconds (and hopefully a Rune Strike proc) to generate some more aggro, however I would not rely on it.

Miste
02-23-2010, 07:25 AM
Death Grip is a Mocking Blow effect I believe - meaning it simply forces the target to attack you but does not generate any threat. Taunts work by bumping up your threat to slightly higher than their current target's.

It's an option for taunt misses, gives you a few seconds (and hopefully a Rune Strike proc) to generate some more aggro, however I would not rely on it.
No. DG is a taunt without the guaranteed "hit me" time like regular taunt. DG sets your threat equal to the highest person and makes the mob hit you. It's up to you to generate enough threat so someone doesn't pull aggro again. So, in a situation like DBS, DG is sufficient if your first taunt misses and the OT lays off. I think mocking blow works the same way now.

Harmacy
02-23-2010, 08:56 AM
No. DG is a taunt without the guaranteed "hit me" time like regular taunt. DG sets your threat equal to the highest person and makes the mob hit you. It's up to you to generate enough threat so someone doesn't pull aggro again. So, in a situation like DBS, DG is sufficient if your first taunt misses and the OT lays off. I think mocking blow works the same way now.

It appears I'm wrong - thanks for the (updated) info