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Arianne
02-20-2010, 01:21 PM
How are people dealing with the empowered flame orbs?

Invariably on our attempts what always happened was:
1) a shock vortex would be cast in melee range
2) the melee would move away from the bosses to get out of the shock vortex
3) the empowered flame orb cast at the same time would one shot the person it was targeting because the melee weren't in range to soak the flame orb damage

Sashenka
02-21-2010, 01:16 AM
Hahahaha, ouch. That sounds familiar. My 10 man spent all night wiping on this fight after clearing entrance, Fester and Rotface on hard without breaking much of a sweat. We were having a hell of a time keeping the kinetic bombs in the air with the new stack dot/debuff (that's what happens when you run with one ranged dps) and when that didn't wipe us, vortex + one-shot-wonder empowered flame orb did.

I'm in no position to offer advice since we haven't downed it yet either, but if you run with pallies, a well-timed divine guardian + aura mastery helps. It might also be worth assigning one of your dps (kitty works great for this due to AE reduction) to soak up flame orb damage no matter what, even at the cost of having them and the orb target vortex each other. Vortex on two people is healable. A 40k fireball to the face is not.

For those who have had better luck/strats with this: have you been marking up your orb-bouncers and using them as stationary "move-away-from-this-guy" points during vortex to allow the dot to fall off? Our poor DK was getting crazy stacks- he'd have to run into range to get his pet on a bomb, run back to try to put in some DPS on the boss, then run right back out because vortex was incoming, rinse, repeat. 8 seconds is a long time to stand in one place when you can't turret.

I don't know what else to try to cut down on the damage that's going out on this fight. >_< I suspect the sanest advice would be to drop melee to bring in some ranged, or go down to 2 heals and let our priest bounce a bomb from range as shadow, but it's tough to ask people to sit out hard modes when they've worked so hard to get here.

gacktt
02-21-2010, 02:52 AM
It's funny how an empowered shock vortex is a complete joke while the regular abilities such as the kinetic bomb and unpowered shock vortex can cause raid wipes due to positioning in hard mode, for 10 at least.

Sashenka
02-21-2010, 02:43 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if this fight were considered slightly harder on 10: half the difficulty is that you're forcing classes to fill roles they're not best suited to, because you have nobody else to fill them.

I'm sure a 10man with 2 pally heals, 4+ ranged dps and 2 pet classes would breeze through this like it was normal mode.

gacktt
02-21-2010, 02:58 PM
They definitely balanced this with a ranged heavy + pally healer comp + hunters on 10man, I feel very sorry for melee heavy comps, if you don't have a paladin healer then it also gets very painful, I tanked both princes and they hit for 15-20k with 43k armor I could go from 100% to 0 in 2.4 seconds flat, a kinetic bomb does 18,000 damage and will auto wipe you 99% of the time, it also spawns and drops a lot faster.

You have to play safe from 100-1%, one random death can lead to a tank death or a missed kinetic bomb then everyone dies near instantly. Even after you learn the fight it's so easy to get murdelized by RNG.

Casper7526
02-22-2010, 02:49 AM
Just downed this tonight. We ran..

Myself - Warrior - Tanking both melee
Druid - Tanking Kel

Hunter - pet handling bombs
DK - pet handling bombs
Mage
Warlock
Ret Pally

Oh...and holy pallies? Nah...

Resto Druid
Resto Shaman
Disc Priest

Sashenka
02-22-2010, 04:08 AM
Bizarrely enough, as soon as we switched to two-tanking it (prot war taking both melee, paladin tank on Keleseth) with a kitty on full-time flame orb duty, the fight turned trivial. o_O Pretty sure it'll be a one-shot next week.

Kylm
03-05-2010, 03:00 AM
Hi,
We have tried Blood Council 10HM recently but we are having problems with kinetic bombs. How do you manage them in your 10hm kills ?
We have tried sending pets but didn't seem to be very efficient (do you use melee-pets or only ranged-pets ?) Any special tip for managing kinetic bombs with pets ?
We ended with 2 or 3 dps managing the kinetic bombs depending on where they pop, but I think we lose many dps on the boss.

Thanks for your answers :)

gacktt
03-05-2010, 03:14 AM
We assign 2 pets and have 2 hunters be alert on the bombs, the fight isn't really quick, it's just 5 minutes of hoping a bomb doesn't land or something dumb happens.

Bitterst
03-05-2010, 04:50 AM
We did 10 heroic Blood Princes last night and found changing our setup helped immensely. We were doing 2 prot warriors on Taldaram and Valanar and a Nether Protection spec'd warlock on Keleseth. Had a resto druid, disc priest, and holy priest healing and 2 MM hunters, an unholy DK, and elemental shaman for DPS.

After several struggling attempts (albeit a few to individual player error) and even a 2% wipe we just decided to try and switch things up. We had one of the warriors switch back to his main spec Fury and had the elemental shaman go to his off spec resto gear. 1 Tank on Taldaram and Valanar and then 1 ranged tank with 4 healers was laughably easy and we one shot it as soon as we made the change. We just positioned the melee mobs at the center of the stairs and had Keleseth kind of near the middle of the room. 4 healers were spread in a square pattern, and 1 hunter covered all of the stairs for Kinetic orbs, while the other hunter covered the west and shared the south with the elemental shaman who also covered the east.

Pretty much no one ever had to move unless a Shock Vortex was placed on them or they were kiting an Empowered Flame. We even played tag to bring the Nuclei on the outside toward the warlock just so he didn't have to run all over the place later in the fight and mess with healing range. One other small thing I would mention is that being the sole person to the north bouncing Kinetic Orbs, I would come into melee range of Taldaram when he was Empowered so that I would never get targeted by Empowered Flames and destroyed because of having no one else in melee but the tank and one DK to soak and shrink it.

Maybe this information will help some guilds looking for an alternative strategy if theirs isn't working. It was a pretty long kill (maybe 6 minutes or something, didn't really keep track) but it was very smooth and there were never any moments of panic with 3 ranged splitting up the room.

easttuth
03-11-2010, 12:35 PM
We three-shot this our first night looking at it.

Setup:
DK Tank (Magic Mit spec) on K
Pal Tank (Armor set) on T and V
Melee DPS - Fury, Enh, Combat
Ranged DPS - Surv, Shadow
Heals - Druid, Druid, Pal

1) One key was to park the bosses on top of Kinetic Orb spots as much as possible. Cleaves and range tabbing kept DPS and orbs high.

2) Balls of fire only threatened one time during one attempt, and it was due to a person failing to move, nothing more.

I think it may have seemed so easy due to #1, basically the less awareness you have to spend on keeping Kinetic Orbs afloat, the easier it is to handle the other abilities.

Mukluk
03-14-2010, 09:01 AM
The fight only has 3 dangers from my experience on it in 10/25.
The Empowered fireball, just pay attention to if its coming at you and run, use any defensive abilities your class has when it impacts.
Empowered shock vortex: on heroic mode it seems to me that distance from boss is completely irrelevant, its much greater range than it was on normal (40-50 yards from 30) but if you arent near another player it barely does noticeable damage. We leave a melee in to keep attacking and the others fan out in different directions, boom, wait for stacks of shadow prison to fall, run back in. (take your time with this enrage timer isnt an issue)
And kinetic bombs. I'm a dk tank and used pvp spec/tank gear with ghoul pet to help with this, and one hunter. We assigned a range to each section of the room (west, east, stage). Vent would go like this:
Random person: new kinetic on stage!
Mage assigned to stage: Tagged it, its up
Me or hunter: pets in route, get back on boss
Mage: k
(mage returns to dpsing boss and keeping eyes peeled for new kinetic)