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Kensik
02-20-2010, 12:37 PM
Hello Tankspot my name is Kensik and I am from the server Deathwing. I am looking for some help with a Blood Tank spec since I am going to be starting 10m ICC. I have been using a Dual-Wield Frost Tank spec which I love but I also love the fact of hitting over 55k Health after blowing all CDs lol. I have done Blood Tanking before but I have had a hard time with threat. I was wondering how your DK Blood Tanks hold threat and what I can do to improve that? Thank you for your time and thank you for all of the videos you have made.


Kensik
Deathwing

MrMooky
02-20-2010, 12:53 PM
Well, the first question would be, are you MT or OT. Will your guild have you on the boss mob, or adds? Blood is good for single target, bad for multiple.

Vlad
02-20-2010, 03:07 PM
Compared to other tanks threat is terrible for blood DKs in ICC, frost and UH are almost as bad.
If you're about to start 10 ICC you'll prob pickup the Claymore off the first boss and that'll help you alot.
The good news is we're finally getting buffed too.. about time.

MrMooky
02-20-2010, 04:57 PM
Compared to other tanks threat is terrible for blood DKs in ICC, frost and UH are almost as bad.
If you're about to start 10 ICC you'll prob pickup the Claymore off the first boss and that'll help you alot.
The good news is we're finally getting buffed too.. about time.

I tank ICC 10 as frost DK. No threat issues here. Not sure where you got that idea from.

Miste
02-20-2010, 07:35 PM
Hello Tankspot my name is Kensik and I am from the server Deathwing. I am looking for some help with a Blood Tank spec since I am going to be starting 10m ICC. I have been using a Dual-Wield Frost Tank spec which I love but I also love the fact of hitting over 55k Health after blowing all CDs lol. I have done Blood Tanking before but I have had a hard time with threat. I was wondering how your DK Blood Tanks hold threat and what I can do to improve that? Thank you for your time and thank you for all of the videos you have made.


Kensik
Deathwing
Yeah....it's really freaking cool to hit 70K HP. :D

This is my spec. (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jcEMqI0Icb0bssxhxZ0gh:Gdi)

There are some flex points in the standard blood spec. Rune Tap and Morbidity are not mandatory. You can shift those points to Sudden Doom, Hysteria, Scent of Blood or Spell Deflection. You can even pickup Mark of Blood.

Compared to other tanks threat is terrible for blood DKs in ICC, frost and UH are almost as bad.
If you're about to start 10 ICC you'll prob pickup the Claymore off the first boss and that'll help you alot.
The good news is we're finally getting buffed too.. about time.
I ran ICC10 last night. Threat was fine. In fact, it was one of my better played nights in awhile. DK threat is more dependent on a good weapon than other tanks. We do have a small issue in opening threat. Good play, misdirects or patient DPS can resolve the issue easily.

vine
02-21-2010, 07:03 AM
http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?59900-Comprehensive-Guide-to-Death-Knight-Tanking

Tomehere321
02-21-2010, 08:43 PM
Well, the first question would be, are you MT or OT. Will your guild have you on the boss mob, or adds? Blood is good for single target, bad for multiple.

Blood isnt just flat out bad for multiple targets, it just takes a bit more rune management then frost does. carefull use of death runes, dnd, and bb will give u and awesome aoe threat. blood isnt bad at all for aoe, its just not as easy to get going as frost.

Kensik
02-23-2010, 12:29 AM
Hey guys thank you for all the help the guild I help lead is going to be starting ICC 10m here soon and recently ive been just pugging or runnign with other guilds to learn tanking. I have been using DW Frost where like I really dont get hit hard and I parry almost everything but threat is shaky against good pallys lol. I will definitely use all your guys advice. If you have more PLEASE tell me lol.

Kensik

Kensik
02-23-2010, 12:30 AM
Right now in liek pug groups I have been OTing sometimes MT but for the future guild runs I will be MTing.

Kensik
02-23-2010, 12:41 AM
Yeah....it's really freaking cool to hit 70K HP. :D

This is my spec. (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jcEMqI0Icb0bssxhxZ0gh:Gdi)

There are some flex points in the standard blood spec. Rune Tap and Morbidity are not mandatory. You can shift those points to Sudden Doom, Hysteria, Scent of Blood or Spell Deflection. You can even pickup Mark of Blood.

I ran ICC10 last night. Threat was fine. In fact, it was one of my better played nights in awhile. DK threat is more dependent on a good weapon than other tanks. We do have a small issue in opening threat. Good play, misdirects or patient DPS can resolve the issue easily.

I really like your spec what is your rotation with this? Of what I see I think i would go for single target IT,PS,DS,HS,HS,Rune Strike, Repeat and for Mult-target D&D, IT, PS, Pest, DS, HS,HS, Rune Strike, IT, PS, Pest, HS,HS,HS, DS, Rune Strike, Then start over.

Bosk
02-23-2010, 03:01 AM
Right now in liek pug groups I have been OTing sometimes MT but for the future guild runs I will be MTing.

If you are OT and the MT is doing a great AOE threat job (eg a pally) you are unlikely to pull much threat on a pack. Concentrate on grabbing runners, adds and so on.

Get big nasties (tm) and deal with the special cases (like the guys who do frost attacks and need to be faced away from the raid).

Miste
02-23-2010, 07:18 AM
I really like your spec what is your rotation with this? Of what I see I think i would go for single target IT,PS,DS,HS,HS,Rune Strike, Repeat and for Mult-target D&D, IT, PS, Pest, DS, HS,HS, Rune Strike, IT, PS, Pest, HS,HS,HS, DS, Rune Strike, Then start over.
You want to use Rune Strike every time it procs. Macro it to every ability.

Since I don't run many heroics anymore, I'll be dropping Morbidity and picking up Sudden Doom for single target threat. I may drop a point somewhere to pickup Mark of Blood too. I've been meaning to play with it in ICC. It seems like it should have some very good situational uses on hard hitting bosses.

I use the standard blood rotation with a caveat. IT-PS-DS-HS-HS-DC, DS-HSx4-DC. Only use DC if you are over 60 RP. The big caveat is I don't always use death runes for HS. Depending on the boss and situation, I will switch to using DS on every death rune pair and only use HS on blood runes.

Kensik
02-26-2010, 12:47 AM
You want to use Rune Strike every time it procs. Macro it to every ability.

Since I don't run many heroics anymore, I'll be dropping Morbidity and picking up Sudden Doom for single target threat. I may drop a point somewhere to pickup Mark of Blood too. I've been meaning to play with it in ICC. It seems like it should have some very good situational uses on hard hitting bosses.

I use the standard blood rotation with a caveat. IT-PS-DS-HS-HS-DC, DS-HSx4-DC. Only use DC if you are over 60 RP. The big caveat is I don't always use death runes for HS. Depending on the boss and situation, I will switch to using DS on every death rune pair and only use HS on blood runes.

I have been running alot of odd in things for myself and guild and I've noticed that with any of my tank spec's that I really need Morbidity either because of any loose aggro or dps are morons and don't let you pick up threat (for all DPS reading this: Let the tanks pick up threat -.-) but thats how i see it like the only thing on your spec i would probly keep it the way it is except instead of 3 full points into Morbidity I would just go 2 then put 1 into Mark of Blood.

Thank you for the help :D if you have like more stuff you can e-mail me at KensionXV@hotmail.com

Vlad
02-26-2010, 06:27 PM
I tank ICC 10 as frost DK. No threat issues here. Not sure where you got that idea from.

Compared to the other 3 tanking classes DK threat in ICC is gimped, what I was referring to was blood tanking is terrible, frost on the other hand might better but I don't know anyone who tanks seriously in frost spec so I'm unable to comment.
I'd suggest you would do better on trash for sure, but I imagine boss threat is just as bad as blood's due to RS mechanics.
Also our teams dps is pretty high at times so you gotta work hard.

vine
02-26-2010, 06:55 PM
Compared to the other 3 tanking classes DK threat in ICC is gimped [...]but I imagine boss threat is just as bad as blood's due to RS mechanics.
I'm not sure what issues you are referring to. I generate huge amounts of threat in ICC, if you are having issues I'd be taking a look at your hit, expertise, and glyphs rather than blaming RS mechanics.

Miste
02-26-2010, 07:03 PM
DK threat is not gimp. We have a longer ramp up time and heavy dependency on a single move to generate a large % of our threat. In ICC, we suffer from poor initial threat if we don't proc a rune strike before the DPS ramp up time has completed. That's typically 3-5 GCDs for most DPS classes. If we do proc a rune strike, our threat is as solid as any other class.

I've tanked seriously in both Blood and Frost(we only had 1 shaman for a few months). Blood single target threat is as good as anything out there, possibly overpowered pre-ICC due to extremely high conversion rates of auto attacks to rune strikes. Due to a full compliment of raid buffs and debuffs, Blood is significantly better at threat in 25-man that it is in 10-man or 5-man play. Blood DKs do need to watch hit and expertise more closely than DK tanks because we don't have as many free GCDs to reuse our runes. Blood's real weakness is AoE threat. I can't pull off our pally or warrior tanks in an aoe situation, even if I get my DnD down first. So I single target the casters/ranged attackers and DG/silence them into the raid. Or, I'll drop a DnD out with the casters so they don't go crazy on the healers since they are out of range of the other tanks.

Frost is a good tanking tree. It's very balanced and much closer to tanking style of the other 3 tanking classes. It has good aoe threat with Howling Blast and good mitigation and better avoidance. The 1 min cooldown is akin to barkskin against melee attacks. The main reason I don't play frost is I love the blood playstyle. I love the synergy of blood's regenerative talents and abilities. I've played blood since wrath beta and see no reason to change. Plus, seeing your HP at 70K every minute is really freaking cool!

vine
02-27-2010, 12:06 AM
A little OT, but the benefit of Unbreakable Armour is heavily reduced as you get better gear. With all the +armour pieces available, and using armour trinkets and Black Heart I regularly hit armour cap (75% reduction) on Saurfang in Blood spec, making UBA all but useless. This reinforces Blood as the primary raiding tree for me.

Miste
02-27-2010, 12:20 AM
It's time to retire the Black Heart. The Glyph and Key are a better pair of trinkets. You'll want the key in a blood spec over the black heart anyway. So your choice comes down to UBA or the Black Heart. The Black Heart has a 45s internal cooldown, so the best it can do is 22% uptime. Generally, you'll see 20% or less since it is still RNG dependent. If you use UBA on every cooldown, you'll have 33% uptime and it is available when you want it.

vine
02-27-2010, 12:26 AM
I'll hang on to my Black Heart thanks all the same, it's still a great trinket in the right situations. It and Glyph are a great combo for armour and stam, with a focus on armour.

Vlad
03-01-2010, 06:48 PM
I'm not sure what issues you are referring to. I generate huge amounts of threat in ICC, if you are having issues I'd be taking a look at your hit, expertise, and glyphs rather than blaming RS mechanics.

The issue is compared to other tanking classes in ICC it's gimped, other instances it's fine.
Because other tanking classes don't have a threat mechanic like RS (yes warriors do, but SS and Dev are the main threat source. I also tank ICC on a warrior and it generates threat very easily by comparison to the DK)
The reasoning is chill nerfs RS procs, and while RS was threat buffed to counter it, it still doesn't work as it does outside ICC. Mainly because of the mechanic of having to avoid to proc.
I'm not comparing it to multi-mob targets or trash because trash just isnt important and hasn't been dangerous since vanilla, single target boss fights are worse for threat than they were before chill.

vine
03-01-2010, 07:03 PM
Well, I haven't seen any inherent threat issues with DK's and I'm running with people pulling 12k on DBS. Perhaps it's simply the difference in our gear and raid composition.