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Slaghed
02-19-2010, 01:28 PM
Okay, my 10man is having a lot of trouble with p2 and I'm looking for a little advice. Here is our group comp:

Tanks:
Prot Pally - MTing LK
Prot Warrior

Heals:
Shaman
Disc Priest
Holy Pally

DPS:
Shadow Priest
Shadow Priest
MM Hunter
Boomkin
Ret Pally

We are having problems both withe the defile and the Valkyrs. I know the defile is just a matter of being more aware, but the main problem that we have with the defile stems from the fact that we are having problems with the Valkyrs. We are trying to bunch up in the middle to make sure that the valkyrs have as much distance between them and the drop as possible. We have our pallies throwing out holy wrath to try to stun them, and we have our warrior tank trying to stunlock them, but he also has the responsibility of intercepting the LK when his 50k debuff thing is about to go off. The thing is even when we can burn a Valkyr down, they are right at the edge of the platform by the time that we get them down.

I'll add that the reason I think we are having problems with the defile is because we are so bunched up because of our inability to burn down the valkyr in a reasonble time. If we could figure out what we are doing wrong on the valkyr, I don't think the defile would be as much of an issue.

I don't think it is really a matter of DPS just not having the numbers, we can do a sindragosa burn strat, and have never had a problem with DPS in the past. It may be a matter or target switching, but any advice would be a great help.

If it matters, here is a combat log: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-k9j7nhcs5gt4mkto/ (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-k9j7nhcs5gt4mkto/)

gacktt
02-19-2010, 01:50 PM
Use hammer of justice then concussion blow, never holy wrath and be sure to use charge as it doesn't share diminishing returns, keep the valkyr dazed. The warrior can intervene anytime during the 5 second soul reaper with no specific timing, as long as he has the safeguard talent.

Unger
02-19-2010, 02:37 PM
I think that having two spriests really hurts you because their burst damage is really low. Most shadow priests need 15-20 seconds before their dots start to add up on a MOB. The hunter should be good burst, but other burst dps would probably be a lot better....

Bitterst
02-19-2010, 02:44 PM
Hey Slaghed, my 10 man group is a similar comp to yours and we went from having a little trouble at first, to none at all by pretty much doing what gacktt suggested, but more importantly, it's just about switching targets quickly. I have /target Val'kyr Shadowguard keybound to my C key and spam it as soon as they first appear on screen so that I can already have it targeted and begin attacking as soon as it becomes valid.

Make sure your hunter is dropping Frost Trap on The Lich King in the center so that it's active a few seconds before the Val'kyr spawns (since he can't do much in melee anyways and I usually am just using that time to regen with AotViper). We have the MT Paladin Hammer of Justice first as soon as it picks up it's target, then the rest of the raid immediately spreads to the north/south (since we use east/west for Val'kyr path directions) in preparation for Defile. Once the Val'kyr starts moving again and gets to the spiked ring design (where you can pre-place an Earthbind Totem), the OT Warrior uses Charge then Concussion Blow. This will be 6, then 1.5 and then 2.5 seconds of stunning for a total of 9 seconds. Finally, if the Val'kyr is just about to go off the edge, you could have anyone else use a stun, albeit only lasting about 1 second now because of Diminishing Returns, as a last ditch effort. That will give you about 10 seconds of complete stuns, and full 50% movement slow for at total time of around 20 seconds to kill the Val'kyr. With the Paladin and Warrior stuns, and quick target switching, we never even have the Val'kyr leave the center ring anymore.

Crommi
02-19-2010, 03:13 PM
Have one person call out incoming Defile and Valkyr on vent, this made a huge difference for us and just breezed through P2 with no deaths. (then wiped on P3, 3x Raging Spirits + Ghosts hurt real baaaad)

5 seconds to Defile: "Defile, spread out"
5 seconds to Valkyr: "Valkyr, hug middle"

Dragaan
02-21-2010, 02:56 AM
One thing that might be hurting you more than most raids is the fact that you don't have access to the best slows. Rogues and DKs are great for slowing the val'kyrs. If you have high dps in your raid tho, I have absolutely no clue why you wouldn't be able to burn a single val'kyr down. Slow them, stun them (but don't just have everyone toss their stuns out randomly cause DRs might prevent you from getting max stun time per val'kyr) and you should be fine

Slaghed
02-23-2010, 10:54 AM
Thanks for the help. I've been sick, so tonight should be the first time that we get to try some of these suggestions.

And grats Bitters on getting the realm first LK 25 kill :) Hopefully Kiele can bring that experience to our 10man.

Megatwan
02-24-2010, 06:08 AM
our second 10m grp actually had a terrible comp so we made weird lil strat that worked if your having issues on valkyr with snares etc:

-everyone either has to see their focus's target, or just get dxe (your toon says "im targeted for defle" as soon as the lk picks you, better option then calling it in vent due to lag)
-have a priest get body and soul
-everyone stacks in the middle all of phase 2

when defile is going out, LK will change targets to the person getting it. They should get a shield asap from the priest and sprint to the outside.

-stack back in the middle


...basicly, it ensures youre always in the middle when valkyrs come out which maximizes your time to kill them. it takes some of the rng and chaos with room positioning out of the equation. And really, its no a terrible way to do it (opposed to the spread around the ring method) except if 1 defile target screws up for 2 seconds at any time, ur screwed because its filled the room in 1 tic, basicly less room for error then normal.


In short, we used body and soul and it was actually useful, crazy but it worked ...lolz

Skaggi
02-24-2010, 06:25 AM
Current bossmods are a real lifesaver when it comes to defile. AFAIK BigWigs and DBM both have the option to show a chatbubble "defile on me" over the person that has it. Get those bossmods and don't forget that everyone has to activate chatbubbles in the social section of WoW config. Nothing like realizing you're running in the same direction as the chatbubble and are actually able to turn and run before defile hits the ground. It's even possible to position the defile without spreading out with a little training.

Valks should be really easy as soon as you chain your best stuns and slows as advised before. Holy wrath is a NO-NO there because it will stun for only 3 seconds.

For your offtank I would suggest powerauras as addon that triggers a spellalert when soulreaper comes in. He actually has 5 seconds of time before the hit will land and in this time he should be actually taunting the LK. Your pally can keep both of them at perfect condition with his beacon on the MT and the tanks can save their cooldowns for the "oh criminy!" moments of life.

Anyway. These five seconds should be plenty of time for a stun and maybe a hamstring followed by a nice taunt.

Cheers!
skaggi

Dragaan
02-25-2010, 04:09 AM
I haven't read the entire thread, so I apologize if this has been stated already.

Instead of grouping up dead-center for val'kyr pickups, group up in a specific spot that's just shy of dead-center. This way, you know which way all 3 vak'kyrs will go and they will stay together for cleaves and aoe stuns (the vak'kyrs take the shortest route to the edge). Everyone will know the general direction of the val'kyrs, so if a defile is coming a sec later you can have the defiled person just run out of that path. Makes p2 WAY easier.

Oh, this is for 10man.. well, same thing applies for 10man as well. Just group up to one side of the center. Maybe 5-10 yards out. Stay within the inner circle. Pick a side that doesnt have a defile already down. This way you know where the vak'kyr will head and you can just have everyone run out of its path to drop the next defile.

MAKE SURE IT'S SLOWED!!

Assist
02-26-2010, 09:54 AM
As long as a hammer of Justice goes off first, we've never really had issues. We have a hunter snare with concussive shot, and everyone just immediately switch to it. Everyone needs to be very clear that only people assigned to stun should be stunning. We use HoJ -> Concussive Blow -> Shockwave, and it usually never makes it out of the circle, unless someone drops a defile on top of it.

If someone charges it, or if someone uses a stun while it is already stunned by HoJ, then things get dicey.

phiona
03-04-2010, 04:23 PM
can anyone tell me if there is a reson that a hunters entrapment(when your frost trap or snake trap are triggered, you entrap all afflicted targets. Preventing them from moving for 2 sec.(1 point) ) talent would not work here? i am about to respec into it but if someone knows it doesnt work i wont bother... otherwise i'll let you know how it goes.

Bitterst
03-05-2010, 12:22 AM
Entrapment, as well as any other full snares that prevent all movement (but not stuns) do not work on the Val'kyr. They actually have a buff that prevents them from being slowed more than 50% as well.

phiona
03-05-2010, 07:31 AM
Thanks for the reply.. we didnt seem to need another snare/stun anyway.

bling581
03-09-2010, 08:21 AM
Do all stuns share the same DR? Our 10 man group generally doesn't have an issue with dps on the Valks but sometimes if a stun is down or they grab the wrong person it can be close. It seems that some don't work, such as Shadowfury (at least that's what our warlock said). I know snares don't seem to work because I tried using Roots, but what about disorient type effects like Dragon's Breath? I'm guessing no but I thought I'd ask. We have 2 Prot Paladins and 1 Holy that rotate Hammer of Justice and Holy Wrath, and for slowing we have an arms warrior, enhance shaman, and arcane mage with Slow.

Bitterst
03-09-2010, 02:02 PM
Do all stuns share the same DR? Our 10 man group generally doesn't have an issue with dps on the Valks but sometimes if a stun is down or they grab the wrong person it can be close. It seems that some don't work, such as Shadowfury (at least that's what our warlock said). I know snares don't seem to work because I tried using Roots, but what about disorient type effects like Dragon's Breath? I'm guessing no but I thought I'd ask. We have 2 Prot Paladins and 1 Holy that rotate Hammer of Justice and Holy Wrath, and for slowing we have an arms warrior, enhance shaman, and arcane mage with Slow.

For your comp a good Val'kyr method would be just having a Protection Paladin Hammer of Justice (stunning for 6 seconds) as soon as it spawns in the center of the platform and then once the Val'kyr Shadowguard reaches the edge of the spiked circular floor pattern circle, having the Warlock Shadowfury (stunning for 1.5 seconds after DR) or in case he's picked up have the Holy Paladin's Hammer of Justice (stunning for 3 seconds after DR) as a backup.

For slowing you can just have the Warrior Hamsting, or the Arcane Mage use Slow (as a backup if the Warrior is picked up) if needed when the second stun happens at the ring, but even without slows, 6 seconds of stun, about 1.5 seconds of normal movement, then another 1.5 second stun will be 9 seconds and plenty of time to kill them if the DPS switch tot them instantly and can use their GCD killing rather than slowing.

A list of all Diminishing Returns can be found here: Wowwiki DR (http://www.wowwiki.com/Diminishing_returns)

bling581
03-10-2010, 07:00 AM
Thanks for the link, it was very helpful.