View Full Version : Tanking i wana be more threatening!!
02-17-2010, 09:46 PM
I need a wee bit of help or adice plz! I am running a lot HC's and some 10 man raids. My main spec is Prot and i like it but latly i have been finding it hard to build enough threat and hold aggro on trash. HoR is a bloody nightmare!
With groups i can charge into and Thunderclap (TC), Shockwave (SW) its no prob but if the mobs are not clumped up i find it hard to keep them focused on me.
My normal rotation is, if poss, to charge in, TC, SW, Shield Slam (SS) and then tab rotate through them spamming Deviste and SS when ever its up as well as useing Cleave as much as possible.
I hate the way palas can just drop one spell and all the bloody mobs seem to stick to them ;(
I have been reading up on here a bit lately and im under the impresion im in need of more expertise and maybe i should go for a slower wep.....??
Is dodge a negative stat (if to high) for trash as they dont hit me as much so i dont generate rage and then threat or have i got that wrong??
I was thinking of droping some dodge and upping my expertise to see if that helped but any sergestions on gear, stats or rotation would be awesome!!!
NB. i know the gem in my helm is not ideal but im gona be redoing some so it just a filla for now!!
02-18-2010, 12:12 PM
Surly one of u godlike tanks out there must have some advice for me!
02-18-2010, 12:36 PM
First off don't expect instant replies, you waited barely 2 hours before bumping your thread.
Second, give us specifics on where you are having problems with threat. Heroics, Raid Trash, Raid Bosses, etc. We need more information to help you.
02-18-2010, 10:44 PM
First off im sorry i bumped my post but the lower down it gets the less likly it is ill get a reply.
Second, in the 2 hours u say it was, i managed to have a normals nights sleep and go to work the next day b4 bumping it.
Third, what eles do u need to know? my armory link is there, i have explained the problem im having and given a basic out line of my style and rotation i use and on what type of fights im worred about.
NB i live in NZ at the mo so the time stamps on here dont relate to the time of day it is for me!
02-19-2010, 12:37 PM
Just noticed the date difference. Sorry, had just woke up...
Your gear can use a few tweaks.
Gems: Never use Orange gems. Tanks use only Green, Purple, or Blue color gems. With Red and Yellow for very specific circumstances.
Helm: switch that gem for Hit/Stam or Def/Stam. More hit will help with threat, since it means you are hitting your targets more often.
Chest: 275 health should be used instead of +10 stats.
Enchant your weapon and shield. Won't go into what enchants to use since I'm not a Shield Tank.
It is recommended to drop the Thumb and get the Glyph instead for your trinket.
Your "target" numbers for Hit Rating and Expertise are 263 and 26. Your Expertise is fine.
Your Hit Rating should be good too, just don't go lower if you can help it.
Dodge vs Parry. It is recommended if you are going to gem for Avoidance to gem for Dodge, because Dodge doesn't suffer from Diminishing Returns as badly as Parry does. Which is why all the experts say not to gem for Parry.
As to Halls of Reflection that place is a nightmare to tank in most cases. Especially if the DPS won't work with you.
I won't go into spec/glyphs since I don't know anything specific about warrior. Everything I have said so far is general to all tanks.
You might want to start a thread asking for Help on Halls of Reflection (more likely to get a response than to ask for help with threat) or use the search function. I know there have been a few threads for that already.
02-19-2010, 02:02 PM
Making those changes Selene outlined will help you in the long run but tanking HoR as a warrior can be somewhat difficult.
Try and establish a kill order whichever you prefer ex. priest rogue mage hunter alhtough your group may just pick random targets which you have very little control over.
I try to hit the closest target to me with a SS and then taunt the next closest melee. If you have a caster put up for spell reflect to establish aggro on the caster and at that point you should have Tclap and cleave on a macro to help with aoe tanking. If needed you can use silencing throw to get the caster closer to you.
Sometimes you have to charge and intervene those casters/ranged to move back and forth.
You may lose aggro for a sec dashing back and forth but will a little work it can be timed.
Keep Spell reflect up for that mage if she is too far away that way you can concentrate on the group in front of you. This eliminates having to run out to her.
If your group pays attn to the kill order once you get comfortable running around it actually becomes fun cuz you can time when you lose aggro.
You rally have to use all your abilities as a warrior to keep aggro.
Pallies have it soo easy in here since they can consecrate and aoe stun the undead.
Hope this helps
On the halls of reflection thing:
Yea that place is a nightmare if you pug it and you get an incompetent group that doesn't know how to LoS. Make sure you are clear on your kill order, that will help immensely. If each DPS targets a different mob than that can make things difficult for you. There really is no shame (at least i think not) for a pug to wipe once or twice in a H HoR run, sometimes shit just happens and you didn't realize it. That being said, the trick is getting the first shockwave off and hitting all the melee mobs with it. If you miss the initial shockwave 9 times out of 10 that mob will run off. Other than that you have be really on top of your target switching, with the recent buff to devestate, Tab/move from target to target hitting them with dev just like you said. Don't forget about vigilance, your spec'd into it so dont forget about it! Put it on your healer or if a DPS is giving you trouble, that way you get free no CD taunts. What else... Charge/Disarm is one of your best friends against the riflemen. Make sure you have them bound. After your TC/SW you can charge one and disarm it then drag it back to the group. Heroic throw and gag order will help you keep mages under control. And if you have a DK have him Death grip Mages or Riflemen to. To be honest, it just takes mutliple wipes and practice to find your niche with that place. Altough that being said, HoR is always a good challenge for a tank.
Other that, i would recommned getting Aloft and Omen if you dont have them. Omen is your best friend as a tank. Also, key bindings. key bindings. key bindings. Make sure you are comfortable with your key bindings and your UI set up. That being said, i have TC on my Mouse wheel and Heroic Throw on my mouse wheel going in the other direction. If you are mouse clicking the buttons, than you are already at a disadvantage because you will not be as quick if you had them key bound. Warriors have a ton of abilities at their finger tips. Disarm, shield bash + gag order, Heroic throw + gag order, intervene, charge, demoralizing shout, conc blow, spell reflect, three diff. cd's (last stand, shield wall, and enraged regen), and your trinkets, On top of your normal threat abilites: auto attack, devastate, Heroic strike, SS, revenge, cleave, TC, SW. And there are a number of other abilites i have key bound that i cant remember off the top of my head. And obviously they wont fit on the 1-6 buttons, heck they wont fit 1-9. A good ui and key binding system is a NECESSITY for a tank to become better, especially a warrior.
02-19-2010, 04:22 PM
but if the mobs are not clumped up i find it hard to keep them focused on me.
The real secret is right here - part of your job as a tank is managing the pull and controlling where it goes, and how it gets there. Play around with mobs out in the world, learn how they move, and learn how to get them to behave the way you want, in a way you can anticipate.
Also, setting up a quick keybind to easily mark a target for focus fire will make your job easier. Three people trying to pull threat on one mob is a lot easier to deal with than those same three people on three different mobs.
02-20-2010, 10:36 AM
If you want max threat spam heroic strike along with your rotation. I pretty much pound heroic strike the same time I hit any other ability...constant spam.
Spam Shield slam whenever you can. Shield slam is so good the other tanks I tank with bitch about shield slam being a taunt -- it is that powerful.
Oh and whatever you do make sure taunt is not in your rotation. Put it on a key you can't easily hit so that if you need to taunt it is a big deal. Also...don't forget about mocking blow. It is amazing how many mobs can be "tanked" with a single mocking blow and then die w/o ever being pulled off.
To clump up mobs...charge, tclap, and then BACK AWAY and then shockwave. Caster mobs can be forced into "melee mode" if you heroic throw them or shield bash them. Go bash/heroic throw a mana bar mob and watch them just start running towards you. Ranged int's are awesome.
Regarding Heroic HOR, I avoid using LOS because it is boring. I make the group stand near the doorway and I just charge around picking things up. Disarm huntards, stun rogues, silence mages, etc. Only "secret" to that place is telling people that if a mob is marked SKULL then no other mob will be tanked (you really will tank things but we need to threaten the idiots to focusfire under pane of repair bills) and they must focus fire on SKULL. Every rogue that spawns is then marked as SKULL. It is ezmode if you focusfire and nuke the rogues.
The trick to the first of H HoR as a warrior is bloodrage. The problem with the place is all mobs do not get there at once. You end up using you TC and SW on the first couple mobs that show up and then when the stragglers from the other side of the room show up everything you got is on cool down and they go str8 for the healer. They way I do it is to wait till the mobs take their form and first start to move then i pop Bloodrage. This is enough initial aggro to bring the first mobs to you and you can single target them while you wait for the rest. Then when all the mobs show up you have TC and SW both up and ready to make sure you get good group aggro. I also tell dps to not start till all mobs are present an Thunderclapped before they start any damage. Spell reflect and HT are handy for the mages and charge/disarm for the hunter, but to be honest i always bring a ret pally to throw a stun on them, I am lazy like that. And my usual remark when i post about multi threat- demo shout. It helps.
02-20-2010, 12:21 PM
For HoR as a warrior tank, before you even start the instance, give the dps the kill order. I usually go Priest-Merc-Mage-Gunner-Soldier. Tell them to single target focus fire them down. You shouldn't have a problem this way. Use y our heroic throw to get the mage in, and taunt then LoS the gunner.
02-20-2010, 05:26 PM
You've gotten some great advice on this forum so far, only thing i can add is to go in with a group you know and trust, get it down, then maybe you can try pugging it.
Its been mentioned before but for me gag order is your greatest tool, charge+shield bash, with intervene/intercept back to the melee groups, then heroic throw any other casters, they'll be on your like flies on honey :)
02-20-2010, 05:52 PM
The key is really to communicate to the DPSers not to unload until you round them all up.
02-21-2010, 06:38 AM
its turned into a HoR tanking tips and that is all good!
Yes i do mouse click..../hangs head in shame. i need to set up key binds but looks like sucha headache i dont know were to start so as such i have shyed away from them. i have HS and TC on keybinds but that about it.
if i get aggro to start with its easy, my problem is if some1 ninja pulls and i dont get that initial TC,SW aggro boost i find it hard to get them all back on me.
Its been very helpfull advice guys so thx a lot. im gona go off and try to find some helpfull tank addons and learn to use keybinds ;)
I also need to spend a lot more time on places like here just reading up about stuff cos its made me realise how little i know about tanking lol