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View Full Version : Tanking ICC Protection Warrior; way over hit capped/green gem Issue



bigshootr8
02-11-2010, 10:02 AM
I've had the issue of to much hit I'm hanging around 10 percent. Prior to Icecrown I was geming my green gems with 10+hit and 15+stamina gems. And my Purple gems to Expertise,Stamina gems of equal value of the hit+, Stamina gems. I'm curious what do I do now that I'm way over hit cap but barely hanging around the Expertise cap. Is there a more valid green gem to help me out. I don't believe in Stamina stacking anymore because Effective Health with the rare exception of certain bosses isn't the most optimal solution. Any suggestions or comments please reply. I'll leave my armory link below. Thanks!

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Boulderfist&cn=Calarahil

Khordam
02-11-2010, 10:06 AM
Best green survival gem would be the Enduring Eye of Zul (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40167), if you don't want to socket pure stamina. Remember, Defense above the minimum is far from wasted!

Zyler_Ysera
02-11-2010, 10:26 AM
I agree with Khordam, the def/sta gems are a good choice for those sockets. I'm confused though as to why you think effective health is no longer an optimal solution. It looks like you are working on ICC, so which fights do you think favor an alternate strategy? Since you are gemming hit and exp, are you having trouble with threat? Otherwise I would think that either pure stamina or sta/avoidance gems will be more useful until we out-gear the content again.

bigshootr8
02-11-2010, 11:31 AM
I'm ok with the Def/Stamina Gem's. I know that defense only gets better I'm fine with it. I see more people doing a few things though going more into parry. Prior to ICC I never saw anyone use Blade Ward but more and more people are using it seems. I don't think I struggle with aggro other then DPS going balls to the wall and not being able to compensate with my own abilities. I also use a Razer Naga so I have my rotation on my mouse and cleave is something I use a lot and h-strike when its a single target. I tab target every now and then but I know better then to know that dps isn't smart enough to continuously focus a tank to see what hes attacking and that goes into other tangents that when a paladin tanks that's not an issue. I don't like effective health like Pure Stamina because I could just roll a Druid and have all the Stamina in the world I wan't to be capped to avoid damage to stack stamina your not pushing yourself to conquer spiked damage. My Old guild Leader would always reference Brutallus as a armor/defense fight pretty much you were going to go for not being hit and I like being hit capped and expertise capped but going straight stam is ok for ok I'm going for the most stamina or hp I can get and hope that a boss doesn't hit me for more then the hp I stacked. I also heard that when you get around 600 defense the effects from it stop producing umph! unsure if this is true.

Kazeyonoma
02-11-2010, 02:21 PM
Parry is bad, don't gem it, don't enchant for it. It's bad, people you're seeing doing it are misinformed.

bigshootr8
02-11-2010, 02:41 PM
Ok, yea I never liked blade ward never proced enough for me. Any suggestions though on massive AE mobs. Sometimes my guild brings in 2 warrior tanks instead of a Paladin tank and I'm going bald trying to keep AE threat. The way my rotation is setup for those to critisize me is like this scroll up is cleave scroll down is herioc strike on my razer naga 1. devastate 2. revenge 3. shield slam 4.thunderclap 5. blood rage. 6 taunt. 7. demo shout 8. commanding shout. 9. Battleshout 10. disarm 11. shield bash. 12. spell reflect. Ok, man jeez hard to remember all those buttons muscle memory in my thumb is going into a coma.

Sorry that was a little off topic. So yes defense and stamina. Sounds good I just don't know think from what I've seen so far that stacking Stam will give me all the stats needed to perform at a high level. I think that if all the gear that was received gave me all the other stats that i needed to cap sure I would be tempted to do EH but right now I'd Decline. Also I have no idea what to do about the 2 things. I get ambushed sometimes with aoe and I can tab and I can thunderclap and shockwave and warstomp to slow things down I just feel like dps doesn't know when to stop or is it me. I feel like wow FML with being a warrior sometimes not the same utility that a druid or a paladin has or for the matter a DK. Annnnnnnnnnd one more thing guilds been struggling on festergut and I tank him 2nd go around so 3rd blight the first one usually lands on me and now that I have my 4 set im bloodraging to get that 4 set proc using shield wall anouncing to raid and for some strange reason I still die do i dare blame heals or is there another explantion for that. Thanks for you guy's advice the guy who posted about parry I see you posting alot on the forums you have some good things to say thanks for chipping in on my pst.

veneretio
02-11-2010, 02:46 PM
Annnnnnnnnnd one more thing guilds been struggling on festergut and I tank him 2nd go around so 3rd blight the first one usually lands on me and now that I have my 4 set im bloodraging to get that 4 set proc using shield wall anouncing to raid and for some strange reason I still die do i dare blame heals or is there another explantion for that.
What kind of overkill are you getting? (Check your Combat log for the exact number) If it's in the 1000s then as much as you may hate the idea of Stamina stacking, the reality is it'll offer you a whole lot more than Expertise and Hit will for living. (especially since Parry-Haste isn't even enabled on that fight so Expertise has 0 benefit survival-wise)

I think the biggest change across the board that I'd make to your gear is to start seeking out pieces with Bonus Armor and in general, enchant for it whenever possible. (Cloak/Gloves)

bigshootr8
02-11-2010, 02:49 PM
I'm unsure last night in 25 I had 2 hits prior to my death one for 20k+ and the other for 10k >< blah!!!!

bigshootr8
02-11-2010, 03:08 PM
I can put armor in both my cloak and my hands I'm aiming for armor defense gear the off piece belt im looking at I dont want to disrupt my 4 set currently and also thinking about the offset cloak but I haven't heard much about it

Bodasafa
02-11-2010, 10:57 PM
I can put armor in both my cloak and my hands I'm aiming for armor defense gear the off piece belt im looking at I dont want to disrupt my 4 set currently and also thinking about the offset cloak but I haven't heard much about it

The off set cloak and belt are amazing and well worth every emblem.

Choop
02-12-2010, 06:46 AM
Another often overlooked survival tip - is for tanks to always carry a stack or two of Indestructable potions. These cost very little to get crafted for you - and offer a massive 3500 bonus armor for each boss fight. I pop one a few seconds before pull, and can then pop another during combat for when i tank the boss after a swap or when things look a bit hair raising!!

3500 doesnt sound a lot - but thats more bonus armor than is on the combination of cloak and belt from the badge set - it equates to >10% of my total armor

Jamor
02-12-2010, 07:27 AM
Another often overlooked survival tip - is for tanks to always carry a stack or two of Indestructable potions. These cost very little to get crafted for you - and offer a massive 3500 bonus armor for each boss fight. I pop one a few seconds before pull, and can then pop another during combat for when i tank the boss after a swap or when things look a bit hair raising!!

3500 doesnt sound a lot - but thats more bonus armor than is on the combination of cloak and belt from the badge set - it equates to >10% of my total armor


What this guy said. Armor pots are WAY underused IMO. They are cheap -- use them.

Kojiyama
02-12-2010, 07:40 AM
Defense is a good stat. A very good stat, in fact. 10 Defense Rating is usually better than 10 Dodge Rating in terms of avoidance for the average ICC-geared Warrior, so don't be afraid to gem it over the 'cap'. Realistically there is no Defense cap for Warrior tanks at all, as the power of the stat only grows as you get further into the diminishing returns curve of Dodge/Parry.

drae
02-12-2010, 01:29 PM
Another often overlooked survival tip - is for tanks to always carry a stack or two of Indestructable potions. These cost very little to get crafted for you - and offer a massive 3500 bonus armor for each boss fight. I pop one a few seconds before pull, and can then pop another during combat for when i tank the boss after a swap or when things look a bit hair raising!!

3500 doesnt sound a lot - but thats more bonus armor than is on the combination of cloak and belt from the badge set - it equates to >10% of my total armor

over 400 of em in the bank, and it is by far my most used potion. I use 2 on every boss pull. DPS warriors and DK's can get use out of them as well. Pre-pop one for ~100 AP for 2m. Then use a speed pot during combat. Speed pots on last for 15s, so pre-popping them is often a waste.

Definitely a great potion, definitely under-valued by much of the general population.

bigshootr8
02-12-2010, 04:18 PM
I do in fact carry armor potions on me used them on which boss was it that we did OH phase 3 Putricide 10 man. Yea I'm going towards the green gem being placed with def+, stam+. And then with purple expertise+, stam+ since I'm just below the cap at 22 expertise/ 5.5% soft cap being 6%. That solves that now I need to figure out the stress of a raid going crazy on AoE and producing AE threat I have a feeling ill get the same advice everyone gives use shockwave, use thunderclap every CD, use cleave, try tab targeting without reason yatta yatta! However, regardless I feel like I need a seperate spec to AE at the same level as the other tanks since Warriors are the self proclaimed Single target tank RAWR!

Crommi
02-13-2010, 07:05 AM
Gear and gem for survival, then use dps trinkets to improve your threat for trash and other situations where incoming damage is not an issue.
Three toughest fights for tanks in ICC all have one thing in common: huge hits (Festergut, Sindragosa and LK)

Supermassive
02-13-2010, 12:33 PM
-.-
I sees your problem.
Ignore all socket bonuses unless you get +9/+12 Stam on them.
Other than those execptions you should have full +30 stam.

That should fix your hit problem

bigshootr8
02-15-2010, 12:23 AM
I'd prefer not to gem everything with 30 stam so thats why I'm giong to opt with defense stam

Crommi
02-15-2010, 06:55 AM
I'd prefer not to gem everything with 30 stam so thats why I'm giong to opt with defense stam

So instead, you prefer to gem for hit when you're already at 333 hit rating just to be unique and special? Sorry, but you're just being stubborn and choosing to be sub-optimal.

bigshootr8
02-15-2010, 09:29 AM
so much more you can do then just GOING OK ALL IN 30 stam every socket I dont buy into that may be stubborn sure I'll go into defense stam as has been said the last idk 50 posts just deal with it i don't like geming EH

krc
02-15-2010, 09:47 AM
There is no point not gemming EH really because there is not a single boss the requires you to gem anything but EH and if you look at a simulator or spreadsheet for example and see Burst Time to Live you can see how much EH is favored.

bigshootr8
02-16-2010, 01:53 PM
Agreed. So, in conclusion I agree with the armor potion idea. The defense+, Stam+ gem idea It's not so much for me hitting a socket bonus but getting the most from my gear. As Cataclysm comes closer I think tanks will realize that the days of straight armor, defense isn't half bad of course with the addition of dodge and parry (Who thinks parry should reflect spells? I do). If it was a competition of how much HP I could get I would re-roll which I won't do. Thanks for the help.

Supermassive
02-17-2010, 11:33 AM
There is no point not gemming EH really because there is not a single boss the requires you to gem anything but EH and if you look at a simulator or spreadsheet for example and see Burst Time to Live you can see how much EH is favored.
*ahem*
You missed a word, brah.
True, he useda double negative which is an english no-no.
But the message relayed is the same: EH is going to get you farther and make your healer's job easier.
And it's not just hp, it's armor too.

If you don't take that to heart it's your choice, but the fact is that's what's been proven to be most effective, and we're just trying to help. It's what we do.

drae
02-17-2010, 02:15 PM
I don't get this.
I'd like to help, but my mommy taught me: if I don't have anything nice to say, then shut-up.

Akeber
02-17-2010, 03:36 PM
I don't believe in Stamina stacking anymore because Effective Health with the rare exception of certain bosses isn't the most optimal solution.


Annnnnnnnnnd one more thing guilds been struggling on festergut and I tank him 2nd go around so 3rd blight the first one usually lands on me and now that I have my 4 set im bloodraging to get that 4 set proc using shield wall anouncing to raid and for some strange reason I still die do i dare blame heals or is there another explantion for that.

So, it seems Festergut is the "rare exception" you referred to in the first quote. Do you know what type of gearing works best on Festergut? I'll give you a hint, the initials are "E" and "H".

I know it's not as "fun" to go along with the established rationale and buy into all the theorcrafting that says EH is the most effective way to gear for progression content, but the fact is that it works. You may not "like" gemming for all stam, but I'd hope you like eating the floor less.

Kojiyama
02-18-2010, 07:10 AM
I don't gem +30 Stamina in every socket and I haven't died early on a boss in any major situation that I can remember.

The OP asked for the best green-matching gem because he wanted to know the best green-matching gem--not the best blue non-matching gem. Stamina/Defense is the correct answer. I highly doubt we need yet another thread debating about Stamina vs. mixed gemmings this month. ;)

Zeronoxx
02-18-2010, 08:32 AM
I dont use the all out 30 sta gemming, and i dont belive in all out sta gemming is the best way to go, i havent had any problems by takeing the big hits some of the bosses do.

I have always gone for the socket bonus if it sta, and from what i see, that ekstra Avoidance/armor i have form my gemming have in some situations helped me out cos i had a higer avoidance than the other tanks that goes 30 sta in all sockets.

I know that avoidance makes it a little more unpredictable for the healers, but avoiding a hit than just take it and drop hp is better in my belives. Cos if there is a lack of healing in some point, then avoidance is far greater than many tanks think..

im currently useing:

Def/Sta in yellow socket

Agi/Sta in red sockets for some ekstra armor and it gives crit and dodge. used Dodge/Sta in ToTGc but changed to agi in the start of ICC.

Sta for blue sockets ofc.

i would like if some one had something to add or maybe surggest to my current stragety, always open for a good debat :)

Akeber
02-18-2010, 09:19 AM
II know that avoidance makes it a little more unpredictable for the healers, but avoiding a hit than just take it and drop hp is better in my belives. Cos if there is a lack of healing in some point, then avoidance is far greater than many tanks think..

It's not that avoidance is more "unpredictable" for healers, its the fact that using mixed gems will only increase avoidance by a very small amount, and not nearly enough to start making the chances of four or five (even six or seven) consecutive hits in a row impossible.

Avoidance is a chance, do you feel lucky? If there is a lack of healing at some point, an extra 3% avoidance isn't going to matter if the "dice" don't go your way.

Kojiyama
02-18-2010, 10:37 AM
It only increases your Stamina by a very small amount as well-especially considering 90% of socket bonuses are Stamina nowadays. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter much and there are about 20 other threads on this forum that have debated the issue to death (and beyond.)

If you are going to match green sockets, Stam/Def is really good for Warriors as Def gains a lot of value in ICC gear.

Erobinia
02-18-2010, 03:04 PM
If you really want to match those yellow sockets, Def/Stam is by far your best option, even if you're well under hit cap.

That said, as much as we all feel like noobs for mindlessly stacking Stam, we need to remember that good EH theorycrafting is essentially measuring a threshold, under which your survival would not even be guaranteed with healers who literally never miss a heal, and, with the current level of itemization available to warrior tanks, you are below that threshold for Lich King.

Naka
02-20-2010, 05:37 AM
(...) Def gains a lot of value in ICC gear.

So does Stamina. Don't forget that Stamina directly scales with armor (and vice versa), and with all those shiny bonus armor on stuff, it becomes really good.
I've never been a real Stam stacker, but all calculations (especially Rawr ;) tell me it's just damn effective with all that bonus armor and I've pretty much ignored all socket bonuses for now.
Which is not to say, meeting bonuses is wrong, of course.

Kojiyama
02-20-2010, 06:12 AM
Again, this isn't about Stamina vs. Avoidance. There are lots of threads on that--Stamina is good, yes.

My main point is reminding people that Def never gets bad. There is no 'cap'--and, in fact, due to the mechanics of diminishing returns, the more avoidance you have, the better Defense is as a source of avoidance compared to Dodge/Parry/whatever. Defense actually passes Dodge in terms of efficiency very easily in ICC gear.