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Mangofan
02-09-2010, 06:41 AM
Not that it matters as much with Limited Attempts over/done with this week, but I was curious regarding some clarification regarding the specifics of management of Necrotic Plague. I'd appreciate any confirmed insight that any members can provide.

-Plague jumps and loses a stack if dispelled, and it jumps and gains a stack if the player/NPC it is on dies.
-The ideal situation, as mentioned in your video, involves letting it jump between Ghouls to gain stacks and then dispelling it onto Shambling Horrors.

The questions I have:
-How are ranged/healers going about getting the stack onto Ghouls vs. melee dps?
-Any suggestion insofar as positioning to ensure that the stack continues to bounce between Ghouls vs. melee? Are the Ghouls typically close enough together that the stack will jump between them vs. melee?
-Presuming multiple Plagues are out at a time, if both are dropped onto a Shambling Horror, will the amount of stacks combine into one (presumably new/refreshed) debuff? Will they appear as two seperate debuffs and tick independently?
-Most importantly, how exactly do the Plague mechanics work insofar as dropping the stack(s)/getting rid of it? I've presumed that to do so you need to let the Plague run its full course (all 3 ticks over a 15-second period). If the 3rd tick kills a Shambling Horror/Raging Spirit, will the stack still bounce?
-Lastly, and on a similar note, I noticed what appeared to be a stack jumping from a Shambling Horror to our off-tank before it died and before the stack finished ticking. While it may have been a different stack/debuff, on numerous occasions it did not appear to be the case. I toyed with the idea that it could have been a result of our hunter Tranq. Shotting the Enrage, but even when he stopped on a subsequent attempt I noticed the same thing. Could something else (potentially a bug) have been causing this, or was I just noticing stacks jumping from other Drudge Ghouls?

Thanks for reading over this and for any potential replies; I may well be overcomplicating this, but I've been able to find little in the way of concrete details.

felhoof
02-09-2010, 10:27 AM
It always - always - jumps to the nearest non-LK mob. So the optimal strategy is to get it and position yourself so that you're the closest to the mob that you want it on, and then dispel.

LogisticSaucer
02-12-2010, 10:10 AM
necrotic plague jump

Felhoof, do you mean to say that the plague will always jump from player -> NPC or that it will jump from ANYTHING -> NPC? That is, if we keep the ghouls on the LK tank, will it stay on the ghouls until killed or move to players in the interim?

Dysheki
02-12-2010, 12:11 PM
I'm pretty sure it jumps from anything to anything (non Lich King mob or player), whatever is closest to the target being killed/cleansed. Not entirely sure since we haven't really mastered how to control the plague yet, but we were able to bounce it from player to player if they were standing next to each other.

felhoof
02-12-2010, 02:04 PM
I mean it will jump from the mob it was on to the nearest non lich-king target, regardless of whether that's an NPC or PC. All I'm saying is that the only thing it WON'T jump to is the LK.

LogisticSaucer
02-15-2010, 09:03 AM
Thanks felhoof. Necrotic Plague ended up being ridiculously easy to handle.

I tanked the horrors about 10 yards away from the group. Taunt another ghoul over on CD. The only dangerous part is right when the second horror spawns. We weren't using an enrage dispel so both adds up with 1 enraged could spell disaster. I would just rotate shield wall / shockwave / last stand and usually by that point one of them would be dead. Problem solved.

By the end of phase 1 the disease is ticking ridiculously hard. At one point I think I saw a 9mil. tick although its possible I just imagined an extra zero.

Darksend
02-15-2010, 10:49 AM
9mil would be a 180 stack, 900K is an 18 stack.

Shazzam
02-28-2010, 09:13 AM
We tryed LK today for the fist time in 10 man and the necrotic plaque semed to be different then the people described in this and other threads. There is always mention of just one plaque bouncing. Is that so? only one plaque and a new one comes in P1 if this plaque is lost?

Because I was the healer dispelling at and usually about 50% of P1 there were 2 plaques at once to dispell.
Also after the first plaque was bounced to a mob we pulled everything together (both tanks, melees and mobs in one pulk) and even if the mobs had the plaque a range would get one. How can that be?

Is the number of plaques somehow bound to the number of horrors maybe? Cause sometimes we had 2 horrors at once.

Also we sometimes lost the plaque even if the ot had enough mobs and the melee were in one camp as well as the rest. In this case how can that be possible if everyone has somone in range the plaque cant be lost, but why is it happening?

gacktt
02-28-2010, 09:35 AM
He casts 3 or so plagues if you can p2 him after 2 shamblers, 4-5 plagues if it takes you 3 or more shamblers to end p1.

Keep the off tank away from the action but near enough that the plague carriers can easily run to him in time.

Offtank takes 1 ghoul with him at the start, taunt the shambler which will come soon, bounce disease between the lone ghoul and shambler.
Additional plagues will be jumped on these 2 bozos as well, it'll increase the potency.
Shambler 2 spawns, taunt him as well, let the disease bounce between shambler 1 and 2, they will die very shortly.


Yes you will have 2 shamblers up for a while, warrior shockwaves and concussion blows covers all enrages, or just have a rogue/hunter dispel it.

Colonel Mustard
02-28-2010, 09:40 AM
We tryed LK today for the fist time in 10 man and the necrotic plaque semed to be different then the people described in this and other threads. There is always mention of just one plaque bouncing. Is that so? only one plaque and a new one comes in P1 if this plaque is lost?

Because I was the healer dispelling at and usually about 50% of P1 there were 2 plaques at once to dispell.
Also after the first plaque was bounced to a mob we pulled everything together (both tanks, melees and mobs in one pulk) and even if the mobs had the plaque a range would get one. How can that be?

Is the number of plaques somehow bound to the number of horrors maybe? Cause sometimes we had 2 horrors at once.

Also we sometimes lost the plaque even if the ot had enough mobs and the melee were in one camp as well as the rest. In this case how can that be possible if everyone has somone in range the plaque cant be lost, but why is it happening?

LK will keep throwing out more Plagues even though one is already up. There's nothing fancy to it. You should always just use one though, because they overwrite eachother if you put them on the same mob.

So, first person who gets plague puts it on the Shambling Horrow. All the other plagues should be dispelled once the target is out of range of other players and mobs, the exception of course being if you manage to lose the plague you put on the Horrow (sometimes it just kills a bit too fast and ends up without mobs), then just throw him a new one. And yes, sometimes it just bugs and doesn't think it's got anywhere to jump, and disappears, we had this happen twice when going for the 30 stack achievement (Quite easy, just a bit RNG. Just park Lich King at 70% and keep feeding the plague with more ghouls and horrors, and beware of non-necessary dispels).

It's not a wipe because you've lost one and need to start over, it's completely doable.

Usually you get two horrors up before one dies from the plague, it varies depending on how fast it ends up on the ghouls, and how much the off tank gets it. Just tranq the enrages and keep going.

Shazzam
02-28-2010, 10:43 AM
Well, thank you for the information

padams7
03-20-2010, 10:24 PM
I have a question -

I (Pally Tank) am tanking the horrors - Our 10 man is very melee heavy, when a melee gets the plague they run over, and I dispel.

Should work fine, except my melee is bad, so after a couple seconds I dispel Melee1 and it jumps to Melee2, then within a second Melee2 is dead.

Someone in raid says every time it jumps it resets, meaning it takes 5 seconds to do X damage. I think this is wrong, otherwise we could just continuously dispel while tanking everything on top of the LK, and run out of range when the LKs power gets too strong and dispel away from people?

Colonel Mustard
03-21-2010, 03:55 PM
Someone in raid says every time it jumps it resets, meaning it takes 5 seconds to do X damage. I think this is wrong, otherwise we could just continuously dispel while tanking everything on top of the LK, and run out of range when the LKs power gets too strong and dispel away from people?

LK gets stronger everytime you dispel the plague, he doesn't enrage at a certain number, he just does more and more damage. His buff doesn't go away when you remove the plague, it has a duration that runs out sometime during phase shift. So if you keep dispelling it around and around instead of removing it, eventually you won't just have an insanely hard hitting boss, you'll have several plagues bouncing around and at least one player stuck focusing on dispelling all of those. And not just that, you'll have all your dps focusing on killing the horrors since you can't control where the plague ends up, and the plague doesn't gain enough stacks since it wastes time on melee instead of killing ghouls.

It's not impossible, you can get 30 stacks and still kill him (hence the achievement), but he hits pretty damn hard, and the horrors have quite a big health pool. Also if you ever want to kill him hardmode you'll just have to relearn the tactics the right way.

Also, I'm pretty sure the timer on the debuff resets, I've had it bounce in melee once or twice before ending up on a person who's not struck with tunnel vision, and then moving it to the off tank.

My suggestions:
- Teach your melee the fight, and make them see that the dps on LK is less important than timing the deaths of Horrors for phase shift.
- Keep the off tank, with horrors, as close to melee you can without risking the plague jumping back.

Dany
03-22-2010, 07:05 AM
Here are the rules of the plague:

- Ticks every 5 seconds, hence it takes 5 seconds to do damage.
- If dispelled from a player or kills that player (after 5 seconds), it will jump on a close target (player or mob, except Arthas). If there's no target, it will vanish.
- If it leaves a mob (killed it or finished its duration), it will jump on a close mob. If there's no mob, it will jump on a close player. If there's no player, it will vanish.
- Arthas put fresh new plagues every 30 seconds or so. If 2 different plagues meet, they'll fuse in a refreshed one, adding stacks.


With that, you can imagine a lot of strats. However, you will need to use the plague to kill the mobs, thus you want to use every new plague to kill the mobs. At the same time, you don't want to chain dispel players to make the plague jump on a mob. That's why a lot of us use an off tank 5-10 yards away from the raid who takes new mobs, and make people run to him on every new plague before getting it dispelled. Either the plague will jump on a mob, or on the tank, and if so, the next dispel will make it jump on a mob.

I'm this DK OT, and with D&D and diseases, I take all the mobs, and kill them only with the plagues. Every player who get a plague from Arthas will run towards me, get a dispel, and go back dps Arthas.



Last tips: At the beginning of the transition, I always have 6-7 mobs left, sometimes a horror, dying one after the other. But as you want to save your raid DPS, you want to kill them with the plague. And since "- If it leaves a mob (killed it or finished its duration), it will jump on a close mob. If there's no mob, it will jump on a close player. If there's no player, it will vanish.", you MUST AVOID snaring some of them. If you loose the plague somehow, you'll never have enough dps to finish by yourselves.

swelt
03-22-2010, 08:43 AM
The problem we have with this is getting consistency. Sometimes everything works as planned and expected - 2 shamblers are dead or close to it as first transition starts. But sometimes it just doesn't seem to work out, and it's very tricky to track down what went wrong. I suspect it's something like a plague stack getting lost or merging too early or landing on too many players (thus getting weakened by dispels) or something.

Dany
03-22-2010, 09:43 AM
For us, the most common loss of plague was due to the transition movement of the OT.
This can be caused by a snared mob (ie: Avenger's Shield of the Arthas's tank), which become alone far behind with an ending plague (rule 3).
Or by a Shockwave cast of an horror, stopping its movements and losing its plague (rule 3).

The OT needs to move the mobs as a pack.
Regarding the weakening plagues, as long as your OT keep at least 2 mobs with the plagues at all times, you can't have an old and strong plague on a player. Since a plague can't jump from a mob to a player, as long as there's another mob close enough, you should only see new and fresh plagues with 1 stack on players. Except when the very last mob dies, you'll have to dispel something like a 20 stacked plague on the OT out of the raid using the 2nd rule.

CoolNitro
04-02-2010, 06:47 AM
Does anyone know how long the LK's buff from the dispelled plague lasts because on the transition we always end up having around 30 stacks on the plague left with no mobs up so I end up having to dispel it around players till someone moves it out to completely remove it.


So what I am saying is, can the LK still have his damage buff up during P2 if we where to have problems removing the plague completely and will it affect his Soul Reaper (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/vqby8kzjecugvwac/spell/69409/?s=10251&e=10651) attack making it hit harder?

Bitterst
04-02-2010, 07:14 AM
Plague Siphon (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=74074) has a 30 second duration from the last time it jumped. The Remorseless Winter transition phases are each 1 minute long. So assuming the last Shambling Horror is killed off with it within ~15 seconds of the transition, and then the offtank (who should be standing alone away from the rest of the raid) is dispelled within 5 seconds, The Lich King should get a final stack of Plague Siphon about 20 second into the transition phase and it should fall off about 10 seconds before the Remorseless Winter ends.

However, that's assuming everything is going nice and there were no extra jumps of the Necrotic Plague, which in that case, it's very possible for The Lich King to have ~5-10 seconds of increased damage remaining when the Main Tank goes to pick him up. Most guilds typically use either a tank or external defensive cooldown to prevent accidental tank deaths because of the combination of this risk factor and the fact that main tank healers will be moving off of the outer edge of the platform.

CoolNitro
04-03-2010, 06:13 AM
Thanks for the info it is what I expected but its reassuring to know the numbers, the problem we had on our last try was the plague jumping between the MT and OT all the time during the transition phase meaning we keep dispelling it hoping for it to jump when the off tank is moved away picking up the raging spirits. A few more tries and we will have it down though.

Bitterst
04-03-2010, 12:06 PM
For our first transition, the one that would be relevant to this topic, we have the OT holding the Shambling Horror head about 10-15 yards away from the rest of the raid. We have the MT (who was on LK) pick up the first Raging Spirit. During this time the OT should be free and can be dispelled to completely remove the Necrotic Plague since he's still 10 yards away), and then once cleared he can come in and pick up the 2nd and 3rd Raging Spirit. If you're a bit behind on the OT being clear the MT can also pick up the 2nd Raging Spirit and then the OT can taunt that 2nd one off of him and then also pick up the 3rd. (You'll typically want the MT on first Raging Spirit and OT on the 2nd and 3rd).

Blacksen
04-04-2010, 11:08 PM
-How are ranged/healers going about getting the stack onto Ghouls vs. melee dps? You use two tanks. One tank holds Lich King, the other tank holds all the adds. Whenever any ranged/healer (or melee) gets the disease, they run to the adds and get dispelled.

-Any suggestion insofar as positioning to ensure that the stack continues to bounce between Ghouls vs. melee? Are the Ghouls typically close enough together that the stack will jump between them vs. melee? Again, 2 tanks should manage this.

-Presuming multiple Plagues are out at a time, if both are dropped onto a Shambling Horror, will the amount of stacks combine into one (presumably new/refreshed) debuff? Will they appear as two seperate debuffs and tick independently? Yes, that's correct. It happens frequently.

-Most importantly, how exactly do the Plague mechanics work insofar as dropping the stack(s)/getting rid of it? I've presumed that to do so you need to let the Plague run its full course (all 3 ticks over a 15-second period). If the 3rd tick kills a Shambling Horror/Raging Spirit, will the stack still bounce? If you want to get rid of it, you need to dispel the person with it away from the raid (so that no player or creature is within 6 yards). The plague's stacks is independent of it running its full course. If it kills a ghoul on its first tick (which it frequently does), it will still gain a stack. It's also worth noting that it cannot jump on Raging Spirits (the transition phase adds). So basically, once phase 1 is over, you'll probably have 3-4 mobs still up and the disease will keep bouncing between them. Once all the mobs die, it'll probably get on your add tank. You just dispel the add tank away from everyone else, and the disease goes away.

-Lastly, and on a similar note, I noticed what appeared to be a stack jumping from a Shambling Horror to our off-tank before it died and before the stack finished ticking. While it may have been a different stack/debuff, on numerous occasions it did not appear to be the case. I toyed with the idea that it could have been a result of our hunter Tranq. Shotting the Enrage, but even when he stopped on a subsequent attempt I noticed the same thing. Could something else (potentially a bug) have been causing this, or was I just noticing stacks jumping from other Drudge Ghouls? It'll jump to your add tank pretty often. It happens. Just dispel them. When the disease is at a low stack number, it won't kill the Shambling Horrors.

Just so you know, I strongly disagree with the strategy discussed in the video. You should try to get ALL adds over to your offtank, including the Ghouls.