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Ciderhelm
02-08-2010, 01:22 PM
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Welcome back to the icecrown raid guide, My name is darksend and in this video I will be covering our strategy for the 25 man version of the lich king encounter.

If you'd like more information or would like to learn more about downloading this movie, click "more info" on the movie information box on YouTube to head directly to TankSpot! Also, be sure to subscribe by clicking the Subscribe button to the right to be automatically notified as we release new movies. Finally, TankSpot Donors can download all of these movies in High Definition directly from our servers -- click the second link in the movie information box to learn more about this service!

This fight consists of 3 main phases with two transitional phases occurring at 70 and 40 percents. We used 2 tanks and our healers were 2 paladins, one druid, one shaman, one discipline priest and one holy priest


The most important thing about phase one is how you handle the necrotic plague. By using this strategy we never got a third shambling. You completely ignore the ghouls and the shamblers and focus all dps on lich king to push him as fast as possible to 70. The ghouls will die either to normal melee AOE's such as whirlwind or as fodder for stacking up the plague. our offtank was a death knight and was death gripping the shamblers to himself but if you do not have a dk tank make sure he gets mds to avoid shockwaving the raid while positioning. We assigned our hunters to watch for enrages, and having two hunters is part of what makes this strategy work as you assign one the first one and the other the seconds one, but a rogue with anesthetic will work as well as long as he is careful of shockwave.


Start with the entire raid almost stacked on lich king with the shambling being tanked away. Once two people successfully get a plague on the shambling, we had all the new ones run out of the raid and get dispelled, as the plague will be removed completely if no one is within 5 yards. Have the offtank grab ghouls until the second shambling spawns to build up the stack. Once the second one is up keep all ghouls away from the shamblings if possible, ensuring the plague will bounce back and fourth between the two shamblers. they will kill themselves without any DPS from the raid at this point just before or just after 70 depending on your raid dps.


For infest, we had our discipline priest shielding as many people as possible, with the druid and shaman topping melee and the holy priest topping the ranged.


The stacking damage buff the lich king gains when the plauge jumps is much scarier than in 10 man. I needed to start using cooldowns as earlier as 15 stacks, getting very scary around 20.


At 72% have the raid move to the edge and be ready for the transition phase. Make sure to dispel the offtank before he runs back in to remove the disease once the last shambler is dead. It will no longer happen the rest of the fight once you successfully remove that one.


Make sure to spread out here when you are on the edge. The main tank should be getting the first raging spirit and the offtank should get the next two so the main tank is clean when lich king cames back up. If possible, try to face them into the middle so melee do not have to worry, it also makes it easier if a melee gets the next one to have a clear spot to drop it. Assign 2 people to the orbs and after a minute when lich king quakes do pay attention and do not run into any that are not dead yet.

I was always given a cooldown as we were running back in, usually a guardian spirit. It is very silly to wipe here because your tank just gets 1shot running back in.

There will likely be one if not 2 ragings still up so focus on those until the valkyrs come. There will be 3 in 25 man so make sure to assign redundant slows to each one. Ideally, depending on how good or bad you are with defile, the tank should be dead center of the platform with the entire raid stacked up right behind him. The reason you do this is because the valkyrs will always fly to the nearest edge.By controlling where you stand you can ensure they fly together, which not only helps a great deal for melee cleave but also ensures AOE slows like piercing howl or desecration will always be up.

Phase 2 is all about handling defiles and proper slows. The person getting targeted by it is rarely the person that makes it grow, but rather the people around the person targeted who are unsure about which way the defile will be ran. We used a general strategy of teleporter to throne. A defile in the middle could have devastating results if a valkyr slower gets picked up. Always be watching the cooldown or have someone call out the cooldown and havethe raid be pre-moving. As long as valkyr are not about to spawn there is no reason people should be anywhere near the middle when the cooldown ends. One thing to be careful of though is that if raid healers get picked up, or people run the long way around defiles, infest may start to tick rather hard.

Using a taunt rotation for soul reaper made tank healing so much easier. It also let you save cooldowns incase a tank healer got picked up instead of being forced to use them at a specific time. Furthermore, they line with defile more often then not which can be disastrous if people run the wrong way.
At around 42% start watching the cooldown on valkyrs. Stop all dps until the next one comes if there is any doubt you will not make it. It is true that should these people get picked up they will safely be dropped on the now raised platform, but it is also true that even standing on the very edge you will take ticks of remorseless winter. This combined with the pain and suffering or orb splashes just makes it safer to wait. Everyone should be as close to the edge as possible before pushing because there is a delay on the platform coming back up. Again spread out to avoid orb splashes and pain and suffering. This time around though there are 4 raging spirits. This is the optimal time for bloodlust or heroism. We have the offtank get the first, third and fourth while the main tank gets the second. You should be able to kill the first two but the fourth will always spawn after the transition.


If due to the soul reaper you were not the last tank in the previous phase, make sure to open up with a taunt as 2 ragings by themselves are enough to almost kill a tank let alone lich king damage. Tank the ragings by the throne with the lich king over by the teleporter. Since the valkyr are gone you should be as close to the edge as possible. Make sure to keep the person with harvest soul alive or the lich king will enrage. As soon as you see him cast vile spirits move completely to the other side of the platform.

We continue a taunt rotation for soul reaper with the tank that has just been taunted off taunting and trying to blow up the highest health spirits.Stay as spread out as possible in this phase. This helps control the defile as well as make sure spirits only ever blow up one person at a time.

This phase is extremely easy as long as you keep the person with harvest soul alive and they successfully do the inside. For that, make sure to interrupt the channel by any means possible or dispell it off of terenas. The only class that should have trouble with this is a night elf boomkin, hunters should be marks for silence shot, and warlocks should summon a felhunter with heroism at the 40% phase. The more hp terenas has the more damage he will do so keep him topped at all times.

This back and forth continues until 10% at which the lich king will kill the entire raid. Do not release this part of the encounter not an enrage mechanic.



Welcome back to the icecrown raid guide, my name is darksend and in this video I will be covering our 10 man lich king strategy.

If you'd like more information or would like to learn more about downloading this movie, click "more info" on the movie information box on YouTube to head directly to TankSpot! Also, be sure to subscribe by clicking the Subscribe button to the right to be automatically notified as we release new movies. Finally, TankSpot Donors can download all of these movies in High Definition directly from our servers -- click the second link in the movie information box to learn more about this service!

The lich king has 3 phases with a fourth transitional phase that happens at 70 and 40 percents. This fight requires two tanks and is best done with 3 healers, especially for phase 3.

Off the pull, the lich king will cast several different spells before really attacking the tank. this, combined with the fact you should be saving tricks and misdirects for the offtank, makes agro somewhat tricky. Make sure to give the tank several seconds before dpsing.

The lich kings first cast will be infest, which he will cast every 20-30 seconds. This will aoe the whole raid for about 7K damage and leave a dot on everyone. The dot has no max duration so the only way to remove it is to heal each individual person up past 90%. Discipline priests are really good for countering this by pre-shielding everyone. At times, the dot will be removed almost immediatly because the shield will absorb enough that players will not drop before the 90% threshold. the longer it stays on a person the more it will tick for so make sure to removed it quickly.

Next is his own version of army of the dead, drudge ghouls. He will summon 3 ghouls approximately every 20 seconds. As long as they are on a tank they can be casually aoed down and it is not a problem to have 3-4 sets up. The real purpose of the ghouls is to help stack the plague I will talk about in a minute and the more ghouls you have up the better it works out. These should be getting fan tricksed to the tank.

Every minute or so he will summon a Shambling horror. This must be tanked facing away from the raid as they do a shockwave that will one shot any non-tank. They also have an enrage that you need either a hunter for tranq shot or a rogue with anesthetic poison to remove. The shockwave during enrage will one shot the tank. The horror is stunable so if you see it casting an enraged shockwave you should conc blow, bash, hoj, kidney, etc if the enrage is not being removed. Unlike a warriors shockwave the horror's one does not stun. Hunters should save MD for these so they will run to the offtank without risking shockwaving as the offtank is backing up with it.

The final ability is necrotic plague, which he will do every 30 seconds. Necrotic plague is a stacking disease which does 50K damage every 5 seconds. Every time it is dispelled it will lose a stack and jump the the nearest target and if it kills its target it will gain a stack. The ideal way to utilize this is to have it dispelled and jump to a ghoul, and just continue to ping-pong it around the melee and the ghouls until it lands on the shambler. Phase one is by far the longest phase, and mostly because you spend so much time dpsing horrors that the lich king himself dies so slowly. Executing this properly will greatly increase your time on arthas. The down side is the lich king gains a stacking damage buff every time it jumps so be careful. I was able to safely handle around a 40 stack before I needed to start using cooldowns.

A full hp horror spawning during a transition is almost a guaranteed wipe, where as ghouls are easily killed off by aoe or any remaining stacks of the plague. Make sure to check the spawn timer before pushing. At around 72% start moving him to the edge and spreading out. This transition is part of the reason we tank where we do, less movement during the phase 1 transition. I will discuss the abilities during the 40% transition.

After a minute of this, he will being to cast quake and phase 2 will begin. Quake will break off the entire outer edge of the platform so as soon as you see it casting move immediately. He no longer summons adds, but instead a valkyr will now fly in and drop raid members off the edge if they are not killed in time. To counter this have everyone stack up near the middle when the ability is off cooldown to make her fly as long as possible before being able to drop your raider. These valkyr are also stunnable and slowable, so get some kind of move speed reduction on them as soon as they spawn. Warrior offtanks work really well on this if your main tank can solo the next ability I will talk about with charge, conc blow, and shield bash daze.

He also gains two abilities. The one the tank has to worry about is soul reaper. This is a dot placed on the tank which does 50K damage after 5 seconds and increases the lich kings haste by 100%. He will do this every 30 seconds. Deciding if you should solo it or use a taunt rotation greatly depends on your tank setup and how well geared you are. DKs and druids with 4pc can use vamp blood and barkskin with the 4pc bonus on every other one, and warriors can use the absorb with last stand or shield wall on every other 4th one. Paladins are fine tanking this until ardent defender procs, and even then the 20% reduction will always work on it.

The other ability is the big one. Defile will target a random raid member, which can include the tank, and place a cloud under them. Every time it does damage it will grow in size. Lich king will target the person he is doing it on, so have your main tank calling who it is on or in our case having a mod which puts a skull on the person, and they need to move immediately. At times, this lines up exactly with the valkyr so either you will be running after it trying to free someone and cut people off or more likely you will have to run out of the middle and get picked up right next to the edge. Be very careful about which way you run and do not spread it. As with most things the graphic is smaller than the effect so really be out of it. This is what will wipe you more than anything if not controlled correctly.

He still does infest but the plague is gone.

At 43% again stop DPS, wait until a valkyr goes out and start getting towards the edge of the platform. Be careful of defile here but otherwise stay spread out and as soon as lich king runs to the middle, wait for the platform to come back up and get on it asap. You do this because the lich king channels remorseless winter. This deals 7-8K a second to anyone still on his inner platform. You stay spread out because he also casts pain and suffering, which is a forked lightning which deals 3K to everyone in the arc and also leaves a dot which can stack up to 5 times. We split the raid into 3 groups to reduce the chances of people getting 2 straight and not letting the stack reset. He will summon ice spheres which will target a random raid member and if it reaches them will throw everyone around it either off the edge or across the platform. They only have 6K hp so they are very easily killed you just have to have someone assigned to watch them. Finally, a raging spirit will spawn out of a random raider, which must be picked up by the tank and faced away. They do a frontal cone silence which hits for about 20K and silences for 5 seconds.

The valkyrs no longer come in phase 3 so you can use the entire platform to spread out. HE will continue to so soul reaper and defile.

His first new ability is harvest soul. It deals 45K damage over 6 seconds and if you live you get ported into frostmourne. As a healer you must keep the lich kings father alive and as a DPS you must kill the spirit before terenas dies. The spirit will do a channel that can be interrupted but also dispelled. This is the biggest source of damage on terenas so make sure to stop it. If the player inside fails the lich king becomes enraged for 15 seconds. The soul repear will 1-shot tanks if this happens so be ready to use cooldowns if it happens.

While that is going on inside, outside the lich king will summon 10 vile spirits. Just aoe them down and avoid them when they start moving as the will blow up if they hit you. If you still have raging spirits up kill the vile spirits first then clean up the ragings after.

We decided to play it safe and do a taunt rotation in this phase. As soon as I was topped back up I would taunt, or essentially having the same tank eat every soul reaper.

As long as you did decent in phase 1 this phase is another "stay alive" phase for an easy win. The biggest thing is to stay spread out so you can identify if a ghost is on you easier but also so you will be the only one hit by defile. Once you get to 10% everyone in the raid dies. There will be some RP and you will be rezzed by terenas. At this point it is relatively safe to say it is a free kill. Even people who were dead from the fight and not the deathtouch will be rezzed back up.

Torturer
02-08-2010, 02:10 PM
yey, cant wait your tactics to kill him ^_^

Ciderhelm
02-08-2010, 02:19 PM
Looks like the first video is taking a while to encode on YouTube, so please bear with it for a bit.

Tanros
02-08-2010, 02:53 PM
By the description i guess that:
1) People killed by Val'kyr will not be rezzed by terenas(not that it matters)
2)He does not have(noticeable)enrage timer-maybe soft enrage for each phase(stacking necrotic plague and haste) but nothing like: 15 minutes gone. BOOOM! You're dead.

Shieldless
02-08-2010, 04:43 PM
Congrats to Darksend and his guild on the kill!

keeyla
02-08-2010, 05:26 PM
Gz on the kill Darksend. Great guide.

How many alt toon strat acquaintance runs did you have to do before hand? :)

Darksend
02-08-2010, 05:33 PM
Gz on the kill Darksend. Great guide.

How many alt toon strat acquaintance runs did you have to do before hand? :)

We got to him with 20 attempts remaining and what 7 left on the kill? we had so many wipes because we fell behind on shamlers in phase 1 because we lost diseases and then just as many in phase 2 to defile not being controlled properly. This was only our second attempt ever in phase 3 for any raid group.

invictius
02-08-2010, 06:34 PM
Thanks! Awesome.

MonkH
02-08-2010, 07:14 PM
how many tanks are needed for 25man version?

Leeroydaman
02-08-2010, 09:36 PM
I felt that it shouldn't have been darksend who should have done this video. Personally, i think Ciderhelm should have been the voice for this boss. Atlease take in this request and have ciderhelm be the guide for the 25 man strat for the lich king, or something. Not just me, but alot of my guildies miss him guiding the raids.

Lilie
02-08-2010, 09:53 PM
@ Leeroydaman: I had to hold my tongue, my friend...


Grats, Darksend. Nice vid!

Oliaga
02-08-2010, 09:59 PM
I request you edit the end of the video - I've been advising guildies who don't want spoilers to avoid watching past 10% (actually 12% to be safe) - but well before that point in the video, the narrator drops the spoilers all over the place - a simple "The fight will be over at 10%, and I won't spoil it beyond that" - people should be able to read strategies and watch videos without having the storyline elements ruined for them.

Ciderhelm
02-08-2010, 10:21 PM
I request you edit the end of the video - I've been advising guildies who don't want spoilers to avoid watching past 10% (actually 12% to be safe) - but well before that point in the video, the narrator drops the spoilers all over the place - a simple "The fight will be over at 10%, and I won't spoil it beyond that" - people should be able to read strategies and watch videos without having the storyline elements ruined for them.In general I agree, but when story is tied directly into an encounter it's very difficult to avoid. Our policy is generally to do a completely uncut version of every encounter up until the last point that players are active.

There is still plenty more that occurs after this video. This isn't a major spoiler.

Waffle
02-09-2010, 03:00 AM
Great movie.

Few things that came across my mind tho, during yesterdays attempts we managed to get a grip of the plague bouncing back and forth to kill the shambling horrors, however when it came to the stacking necrotic plague buff on the lich king himself by the time we got to 82%~ he had quite a few stacks, if that stack grows whenever the plague jumps, how is it possible to reset it? The buff itself lasts for 25+ sec on the Lich King from what i saw and the plague cant stick to a target for more than 15 seconds without jumping right?

Zxian
02-09-2010, 05:14 AM
I felt that it shouldn't have been darksend who should have done this video. Personally, i think Ciderhelm should have been the voice for this boss. Atlease take in this request and have ciderhelm be the guide for the 25 man strat for the lich king, or something. Not just me, but alot of my guildies miss him guiding the raids.
I think it would be unfair to ask the people who are taking the time to organize strategies, figure things out, and ultimately down the bosses to step aside and let someone else narrate their work. Yes, it's been a while since Cider has made a video, but I think that the various people who have stepped in to help out have done an excellent job with the latest WoTLK content. The only real "problematic" situation I can think of was the Festergut 10-man video where the person recording was constantly jumping (was that Darksend again? :P). That being said, the information provided was accurate and helped my guild work towards our progression through ICC.

Congratulations to Darksend and your guildies for the kill. Looks like a very complicated, but fun encounter. :)

Yousend
02-09-2010, 08:21 AM
I don't normally post here, but what my guild does (we got him to p3 a couple times -- p1 is always clean) is we burn the lich king and whoever gets the debuff, runs to the OT in the back. We usually kill him a little after the second horror spawns but that horror ends up dying as we enter p2 usually. (OT is entirely responsible for taunting the adds-- ghouls -- to himself as needs be, while we cleave into the ones he doesn't need, we're melee heavy)

Oliaga
02-09-2010, 10:53 AM
In general I agree, but when story is tied directly into an encounter it's very difficult to avoid. Our policy is generally to do a completely uncut version of every encounter up until the last point that players are active.

There is still plenty more that occurs after this video. This isn't a major spoiler.

The issue isn't strictly the uncut encounter - this could be solved by the narrator chiming in and saying "If you wish to avoid spoilers, turn off now" - the issue is the narrator blabbing the spoilers (which a lot of guides out there are avoiding being specific about) well before that point. There's really no need to specify the mechanic that occurs at 10%.

An addendum: Normally I choose to avoid spoilers - I chose to spoil this for myself when the first video came out mainly because I assumed that someone would deliberately be an ass and go and spoil it for me, and while I'd rather get the experience directly from the game, getting it from the video instead would be preferable to someone in trade chat or vent or a random.

Ironically, that hadn't actually happened until I watched the tankspot video - the completely warning-free nature that the narrator just blabs it all out, before that point is gotten to in the video - I'm glad I spoiled it for myself now. I'd be very dissapointed had I not. The sub 10% mechanic is the coolest thing I've seen in any fight - it gave me chills to watch it the very first time. I guarantee that darksend's blabbing would have ruined that experience personally.

Lyriel
02-09-2010, 11:29 AM
Great movie.

Few things that came across my mind tho, during yesterdays attempts we managed to get a grip of the plague bouncing back and forth to kill the shambling horrors, however when it came to the stacking necrotic plague buff on the lich king himself by the time we got to 82%~ he had quite a few stacks, if that stack grows whenever the plague jumps, how is it possible to reset it? The buff itself lasts for 25+ sec on the Lich King from what i saw and the plague cant stick to a target for more than 15 seconds without jumping right?

I'm also curious as to how you reset the debuff on the Lich King, do you simply run the person with the plague debuff out of the raid and dispel them far enough away that the plague can't jump?

Splug
02-09-2010, 12:18 PM
I'm also curious as to how you reset the debuff on the Lich King, do you simply run the person with the plague debuff out of the raid and dispel them far enough away that the plague can't jump?If the debuffs are managed correctly, you'll finish Phase I with Arthas stacked to around 20-30. The phase transition from P1->P2 is long enough that if the damage increase hasn't already dropped when P2 starts, it will shortly after.

-Splug

Lyriel
02-09-2010, 01:03 PM
If the debuffs are managed correctly, you'll finish Phase I with Arthas stacked to around 20-30. The phase transition from P1->P2 is long enough that if the damage increase hasn't already dropped when P2 starts, it will shortly after.

-Splug

Thanks a lot. I'm assuming the same happens with the Haste buff from Phase 2.

hameroid
02-09-2010, 03:41 PM
great that is awesome =) congrats to everyone on that kill :P...just one question...how much dps is needed for that fight?im rocking ICC10/25 with 6k but only gotten the first wing so idk if im on the right track. Thnx and Congratz!

Darksend
02-09-2010, 04:09 PM
There's really no need to specify the mechanic that occurs at 10%.


The first time your raid gets to 10% and everyone dies vent goes something like this


Wow that is one hell of an enrage timerAnd all 10 people release and you never get to 10% the rest of the night and you have used all 20 attempts. Granted this is no longer an issue since attempts are being removed but there it is.

Also, I do not consider the fact the kills the whole raid at 10% a spoiler. That would be like saying you go immune at 10% on archimone and there is no way to wipe at the point was a spoiler. As cider said other things happen which we were asked not to include, those are the real spoilers.


I'm also curious as to how you reset the debuff on the Lich King, do you simply run the person with the plague debuff out of the raid and dispel them far enough away that the plague can't jump?

Yes, I believe the max it can jump is 5 yards. His buff lasts 30 seconds so as splug said it should reset during the transitional phase. Ideally the offtank will be in the center of the room while everyone else is already near the edge around 72% so when the last shambler dies it should jump to the offtank and if dispelled instantly there should be no one in range.


Thanks a lot. I'm assuming the same happens with the Haste buff from Phase 2.

No, the soul reaper buff arthas gets only lasts 5 seconds, and it is actually a debuff on him not a buff. The very first time it happens you should be able to see me mouse over it (unless when I covered up my chat it got blocked out but I do not think it did)

Kutle
02-10-2010, 04:47 PM
Darksend how did you do Been Waiting a Long Time for This (10 player)?

Darksend
02-10-2010, 04:56 PM
By not killing ghouls. You bounce the disease until you get it on a ghoul and then just have it bounce around 1shotting every single ghoul. Once we got one above a 10 stack we let every new disease get dispelled away from the raid.

togocurian
02-11-2010, 01:42 AM
Darksend, what addon are you using for the enemy health bars, and is it possible to make them a little bigger?

agranyoch
02-11-2010, 05:29 AM
The nameplates are caelnameplates if I'm not mistaken.

Darksend
02-11-2010, 07:18 AM
you are not. The only drawback is that there is no gui, every edit must be done outside the game.

squats
02-11-2010, 07:24 AM
We did phase 1 similar. We had me tanking the horrors about 15 yards from the lich king. I would taunt ONE ghoul over at a time (making sure there is always one there) and we let the plagues bounce between the horror and one ghoul. It pretty much had the same effect as what you did but the stacking buff on arthas didnt get nearly as high.

I would also like to note that last night we had arthas to 37% on our last attempt for the night and i was tanking some spirits (3) and got ported to the frostmourne room and killed... this was after the "hotfix" yesterday and a server reset this morning..so..damn

Neanor
02-11-2010, 05:37 PM
I had a question about healers inside the Frostmourne room. Basically, you fail the encounter if your debuff runs out and the spirit is still alive. For DPS, it's pretty simple. Kill the spirit. But as a healer, I had one occasion where I failed despite the king still being alive. That was the one time I tried to conserve mana by keeping him alive but not spamming huge heals on the king.

Does anyone know the exact mechanics inside? Does the king do more damage the more you heal him? It honestly felt like the healing was more intensive inside the room than outside.

togocurian
02-11-2010, 06:18 PM
you are not. The only drawback is that there is no gui, every edit must be done outside the game.

thanks

togocurian
02-11-2010, 06:31 PM
Just a question about that caelnameplates, I downloaded it and put it in my addons folder, and its not showing up in my addons list in-game. Know what might be the problem?

Darksend
02-11-2010, 09:41 PM
the king do more damage the more you heal him

RichieE46
02-14-2010, 12:29 AM
Couple questions: (10 man strat)

Frostmourne's room:
Guild is having the hardest time on the last phase based on this portion of the fight. Most of the time, they are not making it out alive. Is it just that they need to dps harder? like save CDs for that room? or are there anything additional strat/tips that should be done in that room?

Vile Spirits Mechanic:
I understand that you need to spread out to minimize the explosion dmg. If 1 raid member gets hit by 1 Vile Spirit, then it is easily healable, but if its more than one, more than likely they will die.

IF the raid is properly spread out, will multiple Vile Spirits target the same raid member?
OR is it that the Vile Spirits wont tag team the same raid member? And the explosion deaths is due to people not spreading out properly

Thanks in advance for the help =)

rosseli
02-15-2010, 06:32 AM
requesting tips in regards to phase 3 of the fight where vile spirits begin to spawn. Currently our group consists of

Fury warrior
Mutilate Rogue
Unholy Dk
Elemental Shaman
Marksman Hunter
Disc priest
Holy Priest
Restoration Shaman
Feral druid tank
Protection pally tank

therefore as you can see our range consists of an Elemental Shaman and a marksman hunter so vile spirits are harder to manage than most groups.

any tips someone can provide in regards to this situation, we have only spent 8 attempts on the boss and are consistently reaching phase 3 so any tips for our next attempts would be really helpful

Darksend
02-15-2010, 11:30 AM
Honestly, have one of the tanks respec DPS and have the fury warrior go prot. Put vigilance on the main tank and run to a corner and spam taunt the spirits. I did this in my alliance guild on my own warrior and out of 3-4 vile spirit waves maybe 2 hit anyone but me. Paladins and druids are both completely capable of solo-tanking the soul reaper. By doing this you also can put absolutely zero dps on them and just burn lich king the whole time. (we had an elemental shaman and warlock as our only 2 ranged in that group)

Short of that just have the hunter or shaman mark one and focus fire it, when it dies mark another, etc. From how it seemed to work when I was taunting they do not infact blow up on the person they have targeted. If you run in between the spirit and the person targeted they will blow up on you first. Either way just have melee get off the boss and spread out if they see more than 1 ghost headed into melee. The ideal way to tank it is with your back as close to the edge as possible then when spirits spawn run completely across the room through the center of the circle and put your back to that edge now. As slow as they move this will give more than enough time to identify who they are on.

I will agree that is a bit of a rough group comp for this fight. The dk could stand on the boss instead of running with the tank when the spirits cast is being channeled and try to pest but its a 50/50 shot at if it will actually hit them since they made them spawn higher in the air.

Thegreatme
02-16-2010, 07:44 AM
just as a bit of a side note:
warlocks are all-stars on this fight because not only can they drop seeds on the vile spirits, but they can also negate pretty much every single mechanic in the encounter that affects them minus maybe harvest soul.

Splug
02-16-2010, 01:26 PM
As the spirits trickle down one or two at a time, you don't really have to worry about multiple spirits hitting the same player, either. We found that even without bothering to taunt them at all, or move, or kill them, or really pay attention to the spirits beyond spreading out and healing, we were able to increase our damage to the boss without putting players in significant jeopardy. It's worth mentioning that melee will need to spread out if there is no offtank taunting spirits that were heading toward them.

-Splug

Frazzle
02-16-2010, 04:47 PM
We finally got 10 man down last night, and found a couple of tricks to help with the Vile Spirits in final phase. Our comp doesn't have good ranged damage, so we ignored killing the vile spirits and instead found that Earth Elementals and Army of the Dead can help taunting the adds onto themselves. With 2 Shammys and a DK, we dropped the Elementals and AotD for 3 succesive spawns of the spirits and the I was chain taunting them onto myself, shockwaving a couple to give healers time to heal me up between explosions. Shamans also have a taunting totem which they dropped to grab a couple (can't remember the name, sorry!).

All of the above helped us control the Vile Spirits, reducing raid damage.

apogee
02-17-2010, 02:02 PM
Nekroh, the offtank, has a large standing health pool as blood, and
with VB and scarab could put it close to 80k with those cooldowns active.

My question is--do you think that a blood offtank (with close to 50k self-buffed) is the only viable option of the 3 dk tank specs?

Holyprincess
02-18-2010, 07:31 AM
My ten man has limited time since its an after thought to the 25 man my guild runs, we extended the raid lock out this week and we are getting him into the 60's each time. The key for us was placement and plague control, so far so good i aim to have the king killed this week. Third phase is a mystery to us so far and the video is great but is there a way to see the activities inside ? the keeping the father alive inside ? or is this out and i'm missing it ? thanks for any help yall can give me.
FOR THE HORDE
Holyprincess -Tank- Eredar

Kazeyonoma
02-18-2010, 10:39 AM
my healers are running out of mana by the end of phase 1, is this normal?

Darksend
02-18-2010, 10:45 AM
not really, you should have 3 shamblings at the most, any more than that you risk hitting enrage timer.

Kazeyonoma
02-18-2010, 11:02 AM
hrm, I guess I"m just having problems understanding how to handle phase 1, we have our DK tank him where the 10 man video shows him, i pick up the dredge ghouls and everyone dps' LK. The shambling comes, I taunt him, and i put vigilance on the DK tank for taunt refreshes, and i face the shambling away from raid, and call for dps, we all dps down the shambling, while cleaving down the dredge ghouls, normally we get the horror down right as a new horror comes up, and thus barely any dps gets on LK. How are we supposed to be stacking the plague? It just seems like the healers are dispelling it non-stop till it gets on an add, then the add dies and it spreads and goes higher in tick damage. Do we just have to get lucky with the plague getting on the adds or should we keep melee on the boss and only have range on the horrors and adds and let me tank them farther away? We barely managed to get to phase 2 but we lost some people, and just rofl survived our way to phase 3 before getting 1 shot by everyone. I think LK had 57 stacks of his buff before phase 2 started =P

Arianne
02-18-2010, 11:45 AM
You use the Necrotic Plague to kill the Shambling Horrors.

You shouldn't be DPS'ing the shamblings. You also shouldn't be killing the first shambling before the next one comes up. What happens then is that you're losing your stacked Plague and it has to start stacking again, which is a huge loss of dps on the shamblings.

Your raid has 4s to get to just behind the shambling. Your healers shouldn't dispel faster than 4s, but need to dispel exactly at that time. If the plague is going from one person to another person that isn't the OT or the SH (or a ghoul if your OT is tanking a ghoul as well), then you're doing plague wrong.

You should be standing in a triangle with the ranged as one point, the LK/melee/tank as a second, and the OT with the SH as a 3rd. The points should be ~8 yards apart so that melee or ranged can get to the OT within 4s.


Darksend, the strat says:


Phase 2 is all about handling defiles and proper slows. The person getting targeted by it is rarely the person that makes it grow, but rather the people around the person targeted who are unsure about which way the defile will be ran. We used a general strategy of teleporter to throne. A defile in the middle could have devastating results if a valkyr slower gets picked up.Can you elaborate this a bit? What does 'teleporter to throne' entail?

Also, for healers, do they need to interrupt or dispel the spirit's cast? Does the spirit's spell auto-kill Terenas at the end of the cast? Can they just heal through the spirit casting and keep Terenas at near full life? Is the damage near the end of the spirit's cast too much to heal?

Darksend
02-18-2010, 03:31 PM
hrm, I guess I"m just having problems understanding how to handle phase 1, we have our DK tank him where the 10 man video shows him, i pick up the dredge ghouls and everyone dps' LK. The shambling comes, I taunt him, and i put vigilance on the DK tank for taunt refreshes, and i face the shambling away from raid, and call for dps, we all dps down the shambling, while cleaving down the dredge ghouls, normally we get the horror down right as a new horror comes up, and thus barely any dps gets on LK. How are we supposed to be stacking the plague? It just seems like the healers are dispelling it non-stop till it gets on an add, then the add dies and it spreads and goes higher in tick damage. Do we just have to get lucky with the plague getting on the adds or should we keep melee on the boss and only have range on the horrors and adds and let me tank them farther away? We barely managed to get to phase 2 but we lost some people, and just rofl survived our way to phase 3 before getting 1 shot by everyone. I think LK had 57 stacks of his buff before phase 2 started =P


Basically if a single disease gets wasted you are in trouble. Make a triangle, tank lich king on the teleporter, have the adds about 7-10 yards behind lich king and then all the range in between as the third point. People need to run to the shambler AS SOON as they get the disease. What is probably happening is you are losing diseases because they are being dispelled and nothing is in range for it to jump too, just tell your dispellers to wait, you have 5 seconds before you have to dispell, so 3 seconds should be more than enough time to run to the add. Honestly, we do 0 dps to the shambler in 10 or 25 and they just die on their own from the disease, it just takes practice. how many attempts are left in that 10 man video I forget, but we got to lich king with 20 left I am pretty sure, we spent all but the kill and the attempt before struggling with phase 1 (even though we were beating it we were taking 3-4 shamblers every time).

When the disease is dispelled it loses a stack so you want to never get it on a player if you can help it but if it kills its target it gains a stack (in the case of the shambler when it runs its full duration it acts like it killed it and still gains a stack). This is why the offtank needs to drag ghouls over so you can bounce it between ghouls and the boss and never yourself.




Can you elaborate this a bit? What does 'teleporter to throne' entail?

Also, for healers, do they need to interrupt or dispel the spirit's cast? Does the spirit's spell auto-kill Terenas at the end of the cast? Can they just heal through the spirit casting and keep Terenas at near full life? Is the damage near the end of the spirit's cast too much to heal?Yes, healers need to dispel and interrupt, the damage done in 1 global of the channel is way more than any amount of healing you can do in the 1 global it takes to dispel or wind shock (if that is even on global)


as for the strat, ok forgive how crude this is going to be I apologize you put me on the spot here and I am on my bad computer.http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/7849/lkroughposition.png

Obviously this is extremly rough, if a melee gets it while killing a valkyr that is already flight away or if a tank gets it things need to adjust but this was the general strategy we set up going in. Remember, you will always be carried to the nearest edge when picked up, so in 25 man you want to cheat to one side to force them to fly together to allow them to be cleaved.

Kazeyonoma
02-18-2010, 03:45 PM
Ah, gotcha, didn't understand it well enough and was wondering how our mages were getting the disease (probably dispelled off, and he recasted).

Darksend
02-18-2010, 03:48 PM
He will never recast it just because it is dispelled, he does it exactly every 30 seconds. So if one is removed without it jumping it is gone from the fight. I never have to ask anymore if we lose the first disease because if you did the lich kings buff will be at 1 and have less than 15 seconds left on it.

Vetrosian
02-22-2010, 03:01 AM
My guild is currently getting destroyed by phase 2, main issues seem to be either defile filling the room when we try to bunch up for the Val'kyr or people getting dropped to their death when we try to spread for defile, even with the tank calling out defile targets the tanks reaction time + vent delay + the target's reaction time is making that non-viable for us. I think lack of stuns or effective snares is our main problem with the Val'kyr, not sure what we can do about the defile though as people spreading too much makes the already difficult Val'kyrs a nightmare.

Tahriel
02-22-2010, 05:05 AM
My guild is currently getting destroyed by phase 2, main issues seem to be either defile filling the room when we try to bunch up for the Val'kyr or people getting dropped to their death when we try to spread for defile, even with the tank calling out defile targets the tanks reaction time + vent delay + the target's reaction time is making that non-viable for us. I think lack of stuns or effective snares is our main problem with the Val'kyr, not sure what we can do about the defile though as people spreading too much makes the already difficult Val'kyrs a nightmare.

There is nearly always a 5second gap between defile and the val'kyr. If defile is coming first then just spread and once it gets dropped, instantly run right in to the melee of the lich king.

If Val'kyr is first (the hardest), then just make sure you get in to melee for Val'kyr and spread out very quickly after its got its target, obviously melee cant spread, but they should keep an eye on who defile is going on and move away quickly!

DBM or Big Wiggs helps tons with the timings for Defile and Val'kyr. Everyone in the raid should have one of those addons. (Just as a note, even though i do use DBM, Big Wiggs does seem to be most up to date on Lich King Info)

Crystalhaze
02-22-2010, 11:17 AM
My guild just started working on LK in 25m last night. We got to P2 on our first 2 attempts, then had a difficult time for some reason after that.

I am the OT and we use a pally as MT. He normally picks up all the ghouls that spawn and I periodically taunt ghouls for stacking the disease on the horrors.

What I am wondering is how many ghouls should I be holding to bounce the stack around? Do I want one at a time and then taunt another when that ghoul dies, or should I have 3-4 including the horror.

Kazeyonoma
02-22-2010, 11:43 AM
the ghouls do very little damage from what I've seen, it's always easier to have more ghouls than less ghouls, because if it jumps to a ghoul it'll just increase in stacks and deal more damage to the horrors. It CAN get hectic though, i went into phase 2 with 1.5 horrors, but the stack had reached such an enormous level from just keep jumping on ghouls, it ticked once, killed the .5 ghoul, ticked once on the full ghoul and 1 shot him. Just keep calm, and you should be okay.

Darksend
02-22-2010, 05:14 PM
When you have a single horror, one at a time works best, you have 15 seconds to get a new ghoul before it will jump to you as the offtank. When you have 2 horrors up, you want 0 ghouls on you.

kurokanki
02-23-2010, 03:06 AM
Thanks for the great vids. We used your strat to help down LK tonight and just wanted to add a helpful bit of information for phase 3.

After the transition phase, as a tank, I waited for the Lich King to run towards me to be tanked near the edge of the platform. When he spawns the vile spirits, they hover around in the air and are inactive for a while. They do not follow you until they start attacking, so after they've all spawned, I'd kite LK to the opposite side of the platform with the raid following. When the spirits start attacking, they have a much further distance to travel and they move quite slowly. This also leaves plenty of room for the defiles and keeps the pools near the outside edge of the platform. Our OT would also taunt the spirits away from the casters and try to eat most of their explosive damage.

Hope this helps some of you out!

Thanks for all the great vids. Keep em coming!

Vetrosian
02-23-2010, 07:42 AM
Thanks for the advice wasn't aware of a time delay between the Val'kyr and the defiles, managed 49% this week, going to need more practice with the defiles though.

Venom
02-23-2010, 09:11 AM
For those of you running a melee heavy group, what is the best method of dealing with the first wave of vile spirits after the transition? For the later waves it seems having the OT taunt will work, but IIRC the first wave will start flying down before the last raging spirit is dead. I also see that some of you are using army of the dead and earth elementals to deal with vile spirits, but I'm hesitant to use them before the raging spirits are dead because if they taunt the raging spirit at a bad time it won't be pretty.

Malaclypse
02-23-2010, 12:16 PM
I've heard some confilicting info on what can be used on the valks in phase 2 to slow em.

Stuns work for sure as do snares (chains etc).

One strat I read said slows do NOT work (ie frost bolt). Just trying to figure out how we will handle them in our 10 man based on what classes we will have since it will not always be the same.

Can anyone clarify? As a mage I would consider speccing slow in one of my specs if we needed it and it worked.

Crommi
02-24-2010, 07:41 AM
There is nearly always a 5second gap between defile and the val'kyr. If defile is coming first then just spread and once it gets dropped, instantly run right in to the melee of the lich king.

Are you sure about the 5 second gap? We had our first evening at LK25 and kept on wiping on same thing, second Defile came exactly the same time with Valkyrs and we ran out of ideas on how to counter it, ended up choosing to sacrifice couple people over killing whole raid with Defile. In 10man this was not an issue since you only have one Valkyr that is really easy to dps down even if it's not spawned in center.

Cardinal
02-27-2010, 04:04 PM
Hi,

I have a couple of questions about Phase 1.

In the 25-man video, you say to ignore the Shamblers and burn down the Lich King quickly, but in the 10-man video, you say to focus on the Shamblers and apparently only kill the LK when there's time? Also, in the 25-man video you say the OT shouldn't tank the ghouls (except 1-2), but in the 10-man video, your OT tanks all the ghouls?

Is there a reason for this?

My 10-man group has, until now, been using the 25-man tactic of ignoring the Shamblers/MT holding the ghouls, but we usually have 1-2 Shamblers up during the phase change and a ton of ghouls. We're starting Phase 2 with ghouls and raging spirits alive, and it's basically chaos.

Should we put all our DPS on the Shamblers and get the OT to tank all the ghouls?

PS) Anybody else having a problem where LK keeps moving? Even if I stay still, he keeps circling around me. Very annoying.

ArchAngel028
02-28-2010, 01:53 PM
What I'm wondering is how my group is going to handle this fight. While we are ranged heavy, we are also paladin heavy. Two of the paladins are tanks, one is ret, and the last being holy. I, myself, am the main tank. What would be the best strategy for us if both tanks have AD on CD for some reason and how would we surivie the horror with no way to tranq it?

Timecks
03-01-2010, 02:45 PM
What I'm wondering is how my group is going to handle this fight. While we are ranged heavy, we are also paladin heavy. Two of the paladins are tanks, one is ret, and the last being holy. I, myself, am the main tank. What would be the best strategy for us if both tanks have AD on CD for some reason and how would we surivie the horror with no way to tranq it?

The horror is stunable so if you see it casting an enraged shockwave you should conc blow, bash, hoj, kidney, etc if the enrage is not being removed.
Since they are undead, Holy Wrath works as well.

Eraser
03-01-2010, 10:35 PM
Hi,

I have a couple of questions about Phase 1.

In the 25-man video, you say to ignore the Shamblers and burn down the Lich King quickly, but in the 10-man video, you say to focus on the Shamblers and apparently only kill the LK when there's time? Also, in the 25-man video you say the OT shouldn't tank the ghouls (except 1-2), but in the 10-man video, your OT tanks all the ghouls?

Is there a reason for this?

My 10-man group has, until now, been using the 25-man tactic of ignoring the Shamblers/MT holding the ghouls, but we usually have 1-2 Shamblers up during the phase change and a ton of ghouls. We're starting Phase 2 with ghouls and raging spirits alive, and it's basically chaos.

Should we put all our DPS on the Shamblers and get the OT to tank all the ghouls?

PS) Anybody else having a problem where LK keeps moving? Even if I stay still, he keeps circling around me. Very annoying.

Our guild recently downed LK on 10man. For phase one, the off tank would pick up only the first four ghouls that spawn and after that any horrors that would spawn. People who have the necrotic plague have to run to these adds asap and be dispelled. If at anytime the OT only has one add (hopefully a horror) to tank he'll taunt one ghoul from me - though he really only wants 2 horrors. The horrors enrage mechanic only lasts for one or two hits before they de-enrage and for the most part can be ignored - healers might want to call out if both horrors are enraged at the same time. Using this strat we always got to phase 1.5 only seeing 2 horrors max.

Going into phase 1.5 we spend the first few seconds getting into three separate positions and aoeing the ghouls as much as we can. If we still have horrors up the off tank stays where he is (away from the group) until the horrors are dead, which should be soon, and the disease is dispelled as it will finish being on the OT.Once raging spirits come, the person with the debuff runs to an area which is easily visible by me, so I can taunt the raging spirit as soon as it spawns, dps all switch to the raging spirit using incidental aoe to finish off the remaining adds. It wasn't uncommon on our attempts to have one or two ghouls left going into phase 2.

Other Hints I'd add:
- If you aren't in the best of gear, get a taunt rotation with the tanks - as soon as soul reaper is put on the one tanking LK get the other tank to taunt and hold the LK until the LK tank is back to full HP and he taunts again.
- If doing a taunt rotation, glyph of taunt (warrior) is very nice, i like.
- Someone with authority in the raid should acquire raidwatch 2. It's like a modern dbm, but why I insist you get it is because it will put a skull on the people with defiles - no longer needing to rely on vent.
- Vile spirits in phase 3, unless your group is heavy on AoE damage (and geared), we found it was better to single target them down. As long as people were spread out one vile spirit won't kill anyone, it's when two vile spirits chase the same person that deaths often occur. Just remember they can be snared and or slowed which will make kiting them alot easier.


Lastly, the LK walks around me even when I stay still too! So far I'm blaming it on Australia's crappy net though. D: All the best with the kills!

Haxzors
03-02-2010, 10:02 AM
Hi,

I have a couple of questions about Phase 1.

In the 25-man video, you say to ignore the Shamblers and burn down the Lich King quickly, but in the 10-man video, you say to focus on the Shamblers and apparently only kill the LK when there's time? Also, in the 25-man video you say the OT shouldn't tank the ghouls (except 1-2), but in the 10-man video, your OT tanks all the ghouls?

Is there a reason for this?

My 10-man group has, until now, been using the 25-man tactic of ignoring the Shamblers/MT holding the ghouls, but we usually have 1-2 Shamblers up during the phase change and a ton of ghouls. We're starting Phase 2 with ghouls and raging spirits alive, and it's basically chaos.

Should we put all our DPS on the Shamblers and get the OT to tank all the ghouls?

PS) Anybody else having a problem where LK keeps moving? Even if I stay still, he keeps circling around me. Very annoying.

We've been very successful on 10 man with P1 and can get into P2 with ease on a regular basis. I'm a warrior and OT all of the adds in P1 a little ways away from the rest of the group to avoid plague jumping to another raid member. When someone gets the plague they'll run towards me to be cleansed ensuring the plague jumps to either me or an add. We let the plague kill all the adds because as it kills each one it gains a stack and soon enough it'll be one shotting the ghouls and killing the shamblers in two or three ticks. The P2 transition begins a little between the second and third Shambler spawns and there will still be adds up going into P1.5; usually 1 shambler and a couple of ghouls but the adds vary depending on how the plague jumps. Our P1.5 setup on the outer edge is our ranged in one group, melee in another group, and me with the adds in a third group keeping the ranged group in between the melee group and myself so I'm reachable by the healers. I'll continue to OT the adds during P1.5 as the plague kills them off. When the last add dies the plague jumps to me, it's cleansed, and it's gone for good. I then proceed to the melee group to tank the raging spirits.

The LK tank will has three points (in a straight line, not a triangle) at which he tanks at. Each time ghouls are spawned he'll pull the LK to another point dragging the melee along with LK out of where they're spawning to avoid melee AoE, allowing me to come in and pickup the new ghouls. The trickiest part to this timing the shockwaves as to not let one mow down the rest of the raid. There is a cast time on the shockwave and the direction is not set at the beginning of the cast so you can somewhat guide the direction of the shockwave while its being cast.

And yes, I was on LK the first couple of attempts and he constantly readjusts.

Rynen
03-02-2010, 03:13 PM
Great movie! We still try to learn this one, and this will help us a lot. :)

Jerrymanlig
03-02-2010, 11:53 PM
Our 10man kill is fairly controlled and we use 2 healers 2 tanks 2 melee and 4 ranged DPS. Phase 1 we use triangular positioning with the OT keeping 1 ghoul with him when he is tanking 1 horror, if 2 horrors are up he tanks 0 ghouls.

Phase 2 we immidiately stack central for the first valkyr (Note the OT tanking the Raging Spirits left over from the transition does not need to go central as valkyrs never pick up tanks, this prevents raging spirits silencing/dmging the raid). DPS prioritise Valkyrs -> Raging Spirits -> Lich King. For positioning, if defile is next, we keep the center clear and spread out, if valkyr is next we stack centrally, we call snares and stun rotations on valkyrs for complete control. The raging spirit is often still alive on the first soul reaver so our MT pops cooldowns and eats first soul reaver solo until we begin a tank rotation for the rest of phase 2. Move the LK to the edge for the next transition making sure you have plenty of time to take him to 40% before the next Valkyr arrives.

We use heroism/bloodlust in this 2nd transition to minimise raging spirits when phase 3 begins. Our MT tanks the LK at the edge of the room and as soon as vile spirits is cast he moves the LK to the opposite side of the room and the raid follows. This creates a big distance between the spirits spawning spot and the raid. We use our OT as a "spirit soaker/soul reav taunter" aswell as a rotation on each vilie spirit cast between our ret pally, shadowpriest and dps DK in which they use cooldowns such as bubble, dispersion and antimagic shell to eat any remaining spirits. This prevents all raid damage from spirits and makes our strategy of 2 healing alot easier. Along with sufficient tank healing and harvest soul healing we complete each phase extremely quickly using these methods and the fight is extremely controlled with nobody dying.

I hope this isnt too confusing and helps alot of you out. I think using a rotation between any dps with immunity cooldowns to soak the spirits makes phase 3 a load easier and if you wanted you could remove the need for the OT to soak spirits at all and simply leave your DPS to do it.

Anjerith
03-04-2010, 07:47 AM
My Guild is currently stuck in the first transition for this encounter. We are able to go into it with no Horrors up (LK only gets two summons off before transition phase). We spread out into 3 groups: Healer 2dps per side then tanks and healer in the middle with a floating melee dps.

Don't have the combat log data handy but I know that all the dps in our team can easily output 7-9k when simply standing still and dpsing a target (which is essentially what you do in the transitions). Tanks sit around 54 and 55k health respectfully. Don't have numbers on healers but have a druid, a paladin, and a priest. (also have a paladin we can trade in and out with the priest)

Major issue we are facing is that at the end of the first transition, we still have 2 horrors up. It doesn't seem like theres any way to counter this, we have even burned lust in this phase and its simply not happening. The result seems to end up being that the tanks go in to phase 2 with the spirits wailing on them.


I guess my questions here are as follows:
- I have read that you should easily be able to get all but 1 horror down in the first transition and have the OT hold it away from the raid while DPS kills it. Is this true and if so.. how the heck are we not able to get 2 of these things down in a minutes time. ( I know the combat log would help here, but I am presently at work and its unavailable)
- Is going in to Phase 2 with 2 of them up feasible and if so how fast should they be down (recognizing Val'kyr and Defile issues, as well as the tank damage spikes that will be happening at this point in the fight)


I don't typically come to places like this to ask questions, as I sort of like to just beat at a problem until we can figure out a solution, but I can't honestly see any reason we arnt able to breeze through those spirits.

Phaythe
03-04-2010, 08:37 AM
Thanks for the diagram for Defile/phase 2 positions... quick question on it. You said in your strategy description that you have the raid start premoving when Defile comes off cooldown... does that mean the whole group moves to your intended Defile spot, someone gets targeted, and the whole group runs away from that person to melee range?

Eraser
03-04-2010, 08:48 AM
I guess my questions here are as follows:
- I have read that you should easily be able to get all but 1 horror down in the first transition and have the OT hold it away from the raid while DPS kills it. Is this true and if so.. how the heck are we not able to get 2 of these things down in a minutes time. ( I know the combat log would help here, but I am presently at work and its unavailable)
- Is going in to Phase 2 with 2 of them up feasible and if so how fast should they be down (recognizing Val'kyr and Defile issues, as well as the tank damage spikes that will be happening at this point in the fight)

Going into phase two with two still up is very feasible - although I recommend doing lust on the second transition phase and it's optimal if only one is still up. However, numerous attempts where made where we still had 2 raging spirits up in phase two. Though everyone needs to be aware of when to spread, when to stack, and that Valks>Ragings>LK.

@Phaythe:
While our guild doesn't have designated spots, we do make sure that with 3 seconds left people are moving to the outside circle (assuming no immediate valks). Using a buff called RaidWatch2 (similar to dbm) it automatically puts a skull on the defiled person making it easier for people to note who to move away from.

Star Scythe
03-05-2010, 02:14 PM
Just wondering if the OT can be put inside Frostmourne. I assume the MT cant be put inside the sword, but how does the game decide who the OT is? my biggest concern for this is that my DPS in tank gear (even if i go blood presence and swap to my DPS gemed /runed weapon my DPS is still a fraction of our actual DPSers and i'm not sure i could kill the spirit in time.)

Eraser
03-07-2010, 03:05 PM
I think you can rest assured, I've hit phase 3 many times and have yet to see the inside of frostmourne room. (I hear it's GLORIOUS)

Lukelee
03-07-2010, 04:34 PM
1. Having 2 Raging Spirits still up during the transition from phase 1 to 2 shouldn't be a problem. Hopefully, one of the two raging spirits are fairly low - you'll always have at least 1 near full health since the third raging spirit spawns near the tail end of the transition phase.

All you need to remember is that Valkyr and Defile handling comes first. So have your raid clumped on Arthas, and the OT positioned outside the raid, at the edge of the circle. It's better to play it safe and not risk any silences on the raid at any point.

After the raid takes care of the first Valkyr and the first Defile, the raid should collapse for Valkyr; melee sits on Lich King while ranged cleans up the remaining Raging Spirits. When the Valkyr spawns, get a stun on it quickly - and then immediately spread for Defile. The first stun should actually be used to staple the Valkyr in place, so that you give the raid time to spread out for Defile - after Defile, you can recollapse and get back to DPSing the Valkyr - after which you spread back out for Defile. The tempo everyone will eventually get is: Collapse for Valkyr, once the stun is called Spread out for Defile, once Defile is spawned get on Valkyr (Melee collapses on Valkyr at this point) and after Valkyr is killed Spread out.

2. The primary reason why you need the Raging Spirits down ASAP is because you need the off tank free asap to help deal with Soul Reaper. If you have enough outside cds and an MT that can eat 2 Soul Reapers back to back using only his own cds, you shouldn't over stress getting the Raging Spirits down. Your focus should ALWAYS be on the Valkyrs and the Defiles - those are always your first priorities. This is why Prot Paladins are the preferred tanks for a first kill, because they can handle 2 or sometimes even 3 back to back Soul Reapers using just their own abilities - it allows the dps to concentrate more on Valkyrs and Defiles than getting the adds down and clean up the adds at a much more forgiving pace.

3. IMO, your choice in OTs is just as important as your choice in MTs. A warrior OT can trivialize aspects of this fight just as much as a paladin MT. Safeguard + glyph of Intervene for every Soul Reaper almost guarantees your MT will never get gibb'd and will save his AD proc for when the raid gets badly positioned where tank healers are seperated from the MT because of a sloppy defile. Vigilance on the MT also makes P3 ridiculously easy - the OT simply stands outside of raid and will reliably soak 3-4 vile spirits just by himself every wave; allowing your ranged dps to essentially kill just 1 vile spirit each and then get back to dpsing Arthas.

plitschplatsch
03-09-2010, 11:29 AM
We have beaten Lichy10 recently and used a fire mage and a warlock to nuke down the vile spirits in p3.
I still got two questions about this phase though:

1) Does aoeing the spirits cause them to become active faster? We had the impression that they started blowing up people much faster

2) What are good alternative strategies to use when you don't have SPs/Fire Mages/Locks in your raid to aoe them?

Cardinal
03-11-2010, 04:51 PM
Thanks to everybody who helped with my questions. We managed to kill the LK tonight for the first time in scrub 10-man only gear. *chuffed*

Phase 1: We tanked the LK in a big pack near the Shamblers (copying what happens in Tankspot's 10-man video). OT held most of the ghouls. We put one DPS on the LK just because we don't need them all on the Shamblers. The rest focus on the Shamblers, and make sure to pass the plague to some of the nearby ghouls before standing close to the Shambler and putting it on him. We usually manage P1 in 3 Shamblers, and the third dies in seconds due to huge plague stacks. We just have to be careful not to start the next bit until the plague is on the 3rd Shambler. This meant we had no Shamblers to worry about in the transition.

Phase 2: We found it really helpful to have one person call out on Vent when a Valkyr, Defile or Soul Reaper was about to happen. (I got to be the human Boss Mod for this). As in the video, the worst thing was Defile blob on a melee chasing after a Valkyr, but giving everybody adequate warning to move the f**k away helped. The Soul Reaper damage took me down to 5-10%, but again, early warning allowed the healers kept me through it and let me to solo-tank the LK.

Until P3 when I died - fortunately the OT managed to pick him up and finish the fight! We just spread out and ate the ghosts, couple of people also died to panic and proximity, but P3 was the easiest phase for us. Slow and steady.

volgon
03-11-2010, 08:50 PM
Hey folks. My guild has been having a real rough patch with the valkyrs (what a surprise!). What do you guys find the easiest way to kill the valkyrs is? Right now we are going with the focus fire one at a time method but it always seems like we are off by a valk or so. Do other guilds use some sort of AoE (not counting incidental AoE or pestilence) or assign groups to kill valks? Watching the video on the first page, I often see two valks dying at the same time. Are we missing something here?

Also, I was thinking of having our ret paladin run with glyph of holy wrath and use it once when the valks land and once at the edge. Do others find that DR is still in effect by the time valks are at the edge or has it been reset?

Thanks for any help we can get!

Migol
03-15-2010, 02:19 AM
Just as an alternative 10-man strategy, my guild did a very different tactic for phase 1 that made it much easier for us at least, as opposed to the ones I'm seeing where people try to only get a set amount of ghouls on the OT or taunt one ghoul over at a time.

For starters, we made our triangle of me+melee on LK, ranged and healers as another point, and the OT as the third point.

Nice lil factoid btw, the Lich king ALWAYS spawns the shambling horror directly the way he's facing. So if I have my back to the OT (IE the lich king is facing the OT), the shamblers spawn almost on top of him. It gets a little "off" if the LK decides to dance around the ghouls spawning, but it's easy to face him the right direction again.

Anyway, going back the the strategy, I tanked the LK, and the (pally) OT tanked all the ghouls and all the shamblers for phase 1. The rotation basically was ghouls spawn, he picks them up and goes to place. Shambler spawns on top of him, he grabs it, and from then on he'd throw his shield whenever new ghouls spawned (I'd thunderclap to keep them in range till all were up), and taunt any that his shield throw missed. DPS+healers would run to the OT area whenever they got the plague and get it taken off, then ran back.

The DPS all took the first shambler to ~50%. Then they switched to the LK for the rest of the phase aside from the occasional tranq shot. The timing on this works like a charm, it doesn't seem to matter whether the plague jumps to a ghoul or shambler, whenever we got to the phase 2 transition the OT would have a few ghouls or a shambler+ghoul left up, which died well before the 2nd raging spirit (I took the first). He'd run to the edge a bit apart from us to get rid of the plague permanently once his phase 1 adds were dead. The only challenge is picking up each wave of ghouls while tanking a shambler; our paladin did this fairly easily and I suspect a DK could too. There would be a brief period where there were 2 shamblers on him sometimes at the second one's spawn, but this never lasted more than a little while.

A few other tips:

1) P2 announce the next order for each Defile and Valkyr, IE "Defile's first, spread out"..."ok it's off, bunch up again". Or the reverse. Despite what I've read so far on this forum, you will encounter many occasions when they come within a few seconds of each other.
2) A well geared pally (and probly druid) can just "eat" soul reaper without outside help.
3) One thing the guides aren't clear on is the P3 vile spirits and taunting; don't taunt unless they're in the process of swooping down and chasing someone.
4) Similarly it should be pointed out that the OT will probly have 2 Raging spirits upon entering phase 3. He should tank them apart from everyone, facing away. Make sure that your guys know to hit raging spirits until vile spirits appear, but that vile spirits take priority. The first few times we got to phase 3 we were so desperate to get the raging spirits down that the viles ate us alive; really as long as the OT faces them away from the raid they're not much of a threat in 10m, the only problem is if you have a non-bear/pally on Arthas and need to safeguard bot/taunt.
5) If you're really having trouble, stack ranged dps. There are just so many factors against melee dps in this fight that you'd have to make a list.

swelt
03-15-2010, 05:21 AM
as for the strat, ok forgive how crude this is going to be I apologize you put me on the spot here and I am on my bad computer.
<snip awesome paint diagran>

Obviously this is extremly rough, if a melee gets it while killing a valkyr that is already flight away or if a tank gets it things need to adjust but this was the general strategy we set up going in. Remember, you will always be carried to the nearest edge when picked up, so in 25 man you want to cheat to one side to force them to fly together to allow them to be cleaved.

This is exactly what I've been looking for. It would be really great if this kind of diagram could be included in strat vids where appropriate, as sometimes a simple diagram will tell you more than 100 words or the in game movie itself.

One additional question though: is it smart or counter productive to spread out a bit before defile? I'm having a debate with another officer on this point. He thinks we should be more spread out to limit the chance of multiple people not reacting fast enough. I think spreading out will lead to situations where people simply can't run away because they are surrounded by others.

Kazeyonoma
03-16-2010, 10:59 AM
used the safeguard strat yesterday and got our first 10man kill. awesome!

Inaara
03-24-2010, 01:55 PM
used the safeguard strat yesterday and got our first 10man kill. awesome!

Kazey, we're going to be using the safeguard strat as well. To confirm you're using it to mitigate Soul Reaper correct?

Star Scythe
03-24-2010, 07:03 PM
is there any relationship between when you kill the first wave of valkyrs and when the 2nd wave spawns?

Olat
03-25-2010, 07:38 AM
My 10 man just got to LK and in our first few attempts we get him down to 70% every time. What this video doesn't explain well nor do any of the threads following it, is how the hell do you deal with Raging Spirits. If your spread out to not get hit by "Pain and Suffering" how do you deal with the Spirit? Do you just Stack and burn it down? Do you not Kill it?

Heres what happens. He teleports to the middle, we run to the edges, and spread out. We kill the blue spheres, Raging Spirits spawn, we taunt and turn. Then DPS tries to bring them down, quake begins. We run in and still have Raging Spirits kicking the crap out of our tanks. Like I think Im missing a mechanic here or something.

Our raid Comp was as follows:
DK Tank (Me) - MT
Pally Tank - OT
Resto Druid
Priest (Disc or Holy)
Healadin
Rogue
Lock
Enh Sham
Mage
Ret Pally

All of us are exceptionally geared from 25m ICC. I just think we are missing some simple mechanic that would help us out.

Thank you for the help.

Inaara
03-25-2010, 02:38 PM
My 10 man just got to LK and in our first few attempts we get him down to 70% every time. What this video doesn't explain well nor do any of the threads following it, is how the hell do you deal with Raging Spirits. If your spread out to not get hit by "Pain and Suffering" how do you deal with the Spirit? Do you just Stack and burn it down? Do you not Kill it?

Heres what happens. He teleports to the middle, we run to the edges, and spread out. We kill the blue spheres, Raging Spirits spawn, we taunt and turn. Then DPS tries to bring them down, quake begins. We run in and still have Raging Spirits kicking the crap out of our tanks. Like I think Im missing a mechanic here or something.

Our raid Comp was as follows:
DK Tank (Me) - MT
Pally Tank - OT
Resto Druid
Priest (Disc or Holy)
Healadin
Rogue
Lock
Enh Sham
Mage
Ret Pally

All of us are exceptionally geared from 25m ICC. I just think we are missing some simple mechanic that would help us out.

Thank you for the help.

We use a central kill zone with the Ranged spread out on either side. The Melee is going to have to stack to kill the spirits, there's no other way around it, healers just have to compensate for the extra damage.

ToKu
03-31-2010, 06:53 AM
My 10 man just got to LK and in our first few attempts we get him down to 70% every time. What this video doesn't explain well nor do any of the threads following it, is how the hell do you deal with Raging Spirits. If your spread out to not get hit by "Pain and Suffering" how do you deal with the Spirit? Do you just Stack and burn it down? Do you not Kill it?

Heres what happens. He teleports to the middle, we run to the edges, and spread out. We kill the blue spheres, Raging Spirits spawn, we taunt and turn. Then DPS tries to bring them down, quake begins. We run in and still have Raging Spirits kicking the crap out of our tanks. Like I think Im missing a mechanic here or something.

Our raid Comp was as follows:
DK Tank (Me) - MT
Pally Tank - OT
Resto Druid
Priest (Disc or Holy)
Healadin
Rogue
Lock
Enh Sham
Mage
Ret Pally

All of us are exceptionally geared from 25m ICC. I just think we are missing some simple mechanic that would help us out.

Thank you for the help.

When you spread out how do you do that? We found 3 groups was fine, the outer groups were our healers/ranged DPS and the middle group had our melee DPS and tanks. (We run light melee DPS). The mobs would be taunted to middle group so all 3 groups could focus burn them down.

Kazeyonoma
03-31-2010, 10:11 AM
we just have the ranged spread out, and have the melee just collapse in and dps (we find the melee are okay with taking some pain and suffering ticks and we only have 1-2 melee on this fight most times anyways).

You will always have a raging spirit up as you enter phase 2. but only 1, and it shouldn't be at 100% health (not necessarily 50% either, but somewhere between there). As phase 2 starts, aside from valkyr's you want to free up this Spirit tank asap, so you want to focus down that spirit before you switch back to the LK.

garenathana
04-11-2010, 07:59 AM
excuse me . ?

Solina
04-12-2010, 02:20 PM
Last night my guild was trying lk10 with a 2x druid 1x shaman healer setup our healers are saying its not doable anybody tried a setup like this before , maybe 2 shamans 1 druid?

Darksend
04-12-2010, 02:23 PM
Need more info than that, what was your problem. Where tanks dieing? Was infest not getting removed fast enough because of lack of priest shields? How far into the fight were you getting, phase 1, the first transition, the valk phase?

Lots of things can contribute

Kazeyonoma
04-12-2010, 02:49 PM
Also how were you handling the plague and the adds? If you're trying to constantly heal through a lot of it you're healers will run OOM like mine did the first few times (as I had posted in the thread prior). Once you understand HOW to handle the fight, I don't see how any healing composition won't work, we got it last week with disc priest and 2x resto druid.

Solina
04-13-2010, 06:00 AM
Full setup

Warrior prot P1= adds P2= LK
Druid feral P1= Lk Transition phase raging spirits
Druid resto
Druid resto
Shaman resto
Rogue assassination
Warrior fury
Hunter Mm
Hunter survival
Warlock destro

Phase 1 is fine the tanks don't die there , we just let the plague jump on the adds to kill them we only get 2 Shambling Horror summoned in phase 1 before we got to the transition phase .

Mid way the transition phase all the adds are death the just dispel it asap off me when im tanking the adds and i stun the last add and return to group that im assigned to .

But once we get to phase 2 the valkyr/defile phase the healers cant keep the tanks up we have 2 raging spirits up around this time . The say the cant do it heal the tanks and keep us topped for the infest so the claim its impossible to do with 2 druids 1 shamans that's why i asked if other people did a setup like this on there first try's .

And the healers say the didn't have any mana problems we had that in the past but we where dpsing down the shambling horrors back then now just get to phase 2 asap and we dont have mana problems .
I was just checking if other people done it with a similar raid setup i think the where just trowing in the towel to fast .

Belicia
04-13-2010, 06:43 AM
Full setup

Warrior prot P1= adds P2= LK
Druid feral P1= Lk Transition phase raging spirits
Druid resto
Druid resto
Shaman resto
Rogue assassination
Warrior fury
Hunter Mm
Hunter survival
Warlock destro


You are missing a lot of raid buffs/debuffs, so it will be harder. Also, due to the incoming tank damage, a holy pally really helps. Look at http://raidcomp.mmo-champion.com/ to see the buffs/debuffs you're missing. Notable ones include -damage, +damage, and haste. You're also missing fort/kings, but you can use scrolls/drums to provide those.

That said, I'm sure it's possible with your comp; it'll just be a bit tougher. The shaman should be able to keep the tanks up with some help, and druids are EXCELLENT for dealing with Infest. I don't see why Infest should ever be a problem, as long as the raid has hots on them before the Infest goes off. Are your healers watching the timer for it?

It also seems like your damage may be low. We usually end the first phase transition with one add up (somewhere around 2/3 health), and he's quickly killed before the valks come out. If you can only get one add down during that transition, then it will be tougher. Still doable, but tougher. Are you able to successfully kill the valks in time?

Strife419
04-15-2010, 09:08 PM
Here is what we did to kill LK.

In phase one, we formed three groups in a triangle, melee, range and OT. We kept a tight triangle, so there wasn't far to run. At the end of phase one the three groups moved towards the outside but in a way that no one was running in front of adds on OT.

In first transition phase, the OT stood to the far left, range in middle and melee/MT on the far right. MT picked up first 2 raging spirits, OT came over and grabbed the third. MT = Warrior, OT = DK, in our case.

Second phase, MT tanked the boss in middle and OT took over after the spirit was dead, normally right after first val'kr. Second phase took some time to learn the timing. War tank would charge val'ker right off the bat cause charge stun is not on DR, he would then concussion and shock-wave, if the add was still heading to edge then he would charge again. We had everyone crank the size of the short timer on DBM, this made missing important stuff impossible. DK would tank the boss and call out Defile targets, with target of target he can save two seconds compared to waiting on DBM to announce. The target would move away from middle and everyone else would avoid them. We also called defile at 3 seconds till cast, raid would know to scatter. There is only two times during phase 2 that he is casting defile, valker and soul reaper at same time. The warrior would taunt LK off the DK when the DK was hit with soul reaper, DK would taunt right back after the soul reaper proc'd. We stoped DPS at 43% and killed the last val'ker, while dps was on val'ker tank took LK near the side in preparation of second transition phase.

In the second transition phase, we blew heroism. There is 4 raging spirits this time, warrior picked up 1,3 and the DK grabbed 2,4.

In phase three, the warrior tanked boss on teleporter and DK tanked last spirit off to the side. The raging spirit died soon after vile spirits appeared. we used 3 range but can be down with two if you have a warrior tank. After the raging spirit was dead the DK taunted the boss, the warrior stood under vile spirits and AOE taunt when they started to descend. Tanks should have a million threat over dps by this time in the fight, warrior put vig on the DK to taunt spam the vile spirits from that point forward. This made phase three extremely easy.

Hope this helps. Also can the vile spirits be taunted in heroic mode?

Calest
04-19-2010, 08:38 AM
First time poster, just registered here, be gental

My guild is having a hard time with Lich King in P2. We get there with no issues. P1 is perfect, both Horrors are dead going into the transition, transition phase is smooth, Sprits are dead with the 3rd around 70% or less.

The issue comes when we get the second Valk and Defile. They seem to stack on each other time wise. The 3rd is close as well. Any tips on how to handle the defile? Running out is the solution but I guess what i am looking for is a better way to determine who is getting it sooner. We are getting into the 50% range every attempt but the defile + Valk's spawning nearly at the same time is destroying us.

Kazeyonoma
04-19-2010, 10:22 AM
i don't remember if the valks come first or the defile does, but you need to make sure you handle them fast, so if it's valks first then defile, you there's a small window, so make sur eyou're stacked for valks, then the moment they spawn, spread out fast, and have the person who gets defile run quick it's doable as long as everyone is paying attention.

Bishoptwo
04-19-2010, 10:31 AM
First time poster, just registered here, be gental

My guild is having a hard time with Lich King in P2. We get there with no issues. P1 is perfect, both Horrors are dead going into the transition, transition phase is smooth, Sprits are dead with the 3rd around 70% or less.

The issue comes when we get the second Valk and Defile. They seem to stack on each other time wise. The 3rd is close as well. Any tips on how to handle the defile? Running out is the solution but I guess what i am looking for is a better way to determine who is getting it sooner. We are getting into the 50% range every attempt but the defile + Valk's spawning nearly at the same time is destroying us.

It might help you if you have general areas where you would always want the defiles to go. We did this the first week LK was out and we have to do it to the extreme on 25 heroic LK.

But say if you know you would always prefer to put defiles on Tirion or to the North on the big rune on the circle then when you are relatively grouped up for the second valkyr pickups, the targeted person can move towards one of those spots and others know that those are bad spots to go.

There's a second or so grace period where the defile doesn't register anyone in it.

DBM does say bubbles for who it's on and screams at you when you get it.

Also one thing to note, there's a very small chance that the defile hits before the Valkyr's during that second pickup. It's only happened twice out of all of our 10 and 25 normal LK's and all of our 10 and 25 heroic LK attempts. The majority of the time it's Valkyr pickups then defile, just spread as soon as you see that third valkyr drop.

Calest
04-19-2010, 11:56 AM
Thanks for the reply's.

Our plan has been, Valk's drop I see the second one and call out "spread out" by then the third has dropped. We get them all going the same direction and Defile is called out. Maybe i need to ride the raid a bit more with them not spreading out further. Our plan is to get them to the stairs (LK tanked in the middle) or at least out of the center ring and not in the path the Valk's will go.

We had the Deflie come before the Valk's last night a few times, as well as both happen almost the exact same time (3rd Valk hadn't dropped and Defile went down). maybe some poor RNG, but I think its more people not moving quick enough.

gundecker
05-16-2010, 08:03 PM
As a warrior tank, do you shockwave (stun) the shambling horrors as soon as they're casting their enraged shockwave or after? If this is done, will that have interrupted the enraged cast, or will they still need a tranq shot?

Duchene
05-17-2010, 08:31 AM
Also one thing to note, there's a very small chance that the defile hits before the Valkyr's during that second pickup. It's only happened twice out of all of our 10 and 25 normal LK's and all of our 10 and 25 heroic LK attempts. The majority of the time it's Valkyr pickups then defile, just spread as soon as you see that third valkyr drop.

It depends on how quick your group is at killing valks. Correct me if im wrong, but from all my attempts both defile & the valk are set to cast after X amount of seconds. Defile is a set thing that's never going to change. With the valks though you dont even get a timer for a new valk until the first one is dead otherwise im assuming having to deal with 2 valks at a time + defile would be murder.

If you kill your valks fast that gives you lots of time to spread out for the incoming defile. If your group takes too long its very easy to have the new timer for the next valk 1-2 seconds within the next defile which really sucks..

Rennadrel
05-18-2010, 08:06 AM
That phase 2 transition after Quake is what kills a lot of groups, mine included. We are running a bear druid on LK, warrior on adds and I think the off tank is what is causing us transition issues, we need to see if we can get our guilds only paladin tank in our group instead of the warrior because at this stage it will make add control a lot easier because he can easily taunt and make sure that he has threat on those Raging Spirits when they spawn. We usually have 1 spirit left when Quake happens but there is usually a Shambling Horror still alive sometimes. I think the faster your healers spread the plague onto those horrors, and especially during that transition phase after phase 1, they should die during Quake.

Kazeyonoma
05-18-2010, 09:57 AM
if you're handling the plague properly the OT with the adds should have <2-3 adds when the transition into the raging spirits phase happens, just let him isolate to the left or right (whichever you like) and let the plagues kill off the adds, while your MT temporarily tanks the first spirit. Dispel once there's no more adds (remember he's isolated so the plague should just disappear), and then he can take over whichever adds spawn from there, and your MT can go back to being ready to pick up LK. Works everytime for us. How exactly are you guys covering the adds?

we basically tank the LK, and the adds and the range dps in the shape of a triangle, every add including horrors go to the OT while the melee/range kill LK, just continuously drop the plagues into the add packs and they'll go down with no problem. Have ranged dps help with the shambling horrors if they have too much HP and you're nearing 70%. That should do it.

chocritmilk
05-20-2010, 05:27 AM
Just sharing this for anyone else using varied healing setups, someone had posted saying they had 2 druids and 1 shaman I am shocked this was not working.

We use 2 raid healers for LK and it works fine. I am a tree and other is holy priest. We have almost no issue with Infest at all we both just know it is coming the moment it hits I hit WG and he hits CoH and poof infest is gone.

Our heals blanket everything quite well, I do most of the tank healing plus his overlapping heals and others as support works fine.

We 2 heal we like having 1 more dps to help push phases or bring down an extra add before phase shift. I think a key element that people should work on that took us a while to get used to was communication before pushing a phase. This is a long fight anyway and has a pretty long enrage timer, if you are stuck with 2 adds up and LK is at 73% (example) we will stop dps on LK and make sure adds are in check then suddenly push push push.

I know some of the top guilds and top players always laugh at everything about not being tough and all that but wow this fight is pretty intense. Communication is amazingly critical in this one. Doing the "defile valk dance" is crazy but as you do it gets a little smoother.

What can be tricky is when defile & valk will be hitting within 2-3 seconds of each other our raid lead warns over vent "valk inc defile right after soon as valk grabs target everyone spread out" something like that and it works.

Our setup is (for reference)

heals - tree & holy priest
tanks - pal and war
ranged - lock, arc mage, hunter, ele shaman
melee - rogue, blood dk

Our ele shaman will spam chain heals if by RNG one of our 2 healers gets grabbed by a valk or into frostmourne.

Windboy
05-23-2010, 09:21 AM
Hi, i'm posting here cause i really need help on something

First of all, sorry about my english =)

We have a setup like this:

Heals - 1 disc priest, 1 tree, 1 pally heal
DPS - pally ret, rogue, hunter, lock, shaman
Tank - Pally prot ( off tank - me ), warrior prot ( MT )

We're having some issues in the first transition ... We're forming a triangle where are ranged/heals, MT/LK/melees and OT/adds. Me as a pally off tank can dispell the necrotic plague when the infected one is near the horrors ... i can keep that on but when we reach the transition, someone dies cause of the necrotic plague.

I sometimes taunt some ghouls to do some stacks on them to hit horrors harder, but maybe some ghouls come back to the MT ( maybe it's what's going on? ). How do u keep track on which person has necrotic plague?

And in transition, me and the alives adds goes a little far away from the group so the adds can die and i can dispell myself but i can't get if i'm dispelling myself wrong or it's the ghoul thing. Is there some other way to safe dispell the plague on me without jumping to someone else?

thanks for any help =)

Blacksen
05-23-2010, 11:23 AM
Necrotic Plague can and will jump off of mobs and onto players. The plague itself isn't "picky" - it jumps to any Ghoul, Horror, or Player within 6 yards. So, when all of the adds die in the first transition, the plague will jump to a player.

To get rid of the plague, you either need an add to die when it's not within 6 yards of anyone, or you need a player to run out of the raid and get dispelled 6 yards away from everything else.

Basically, you should chain dispel it until you notice it's bouncing between players. Then you should have whoever gets it run out of the raid.

Inee
05-24-2010, 02:50 AM
OK - I'm a new poster on this forum, having used it for ages.

First thing I'd like to say is that yeah, like many I miss Ciderhelm's commentaries - but I also think that the people who have stepped up to do it have done so fantastically. In addition, I didn't see this video until after my first LK kill (server transfer then unexpected invite to step in to main raid group when they were short that week) - and I loved seeing the commentator bouncing around like a madman, having finished his commentary. Our entire guild were shouting in vent and jumping around the LK so much I can honestly say that I didn't remember most of the ending - and it was truly great seeing how much fun it was for you guys as well. Gratz.

Most people seem to be having issues with the raging spirits from transition, and we did it slightly differently to the video - so I thought I'd share. When you have the ghouls (and horror in worst case scenario) kited onto the platform at the start of the transition. the OT takes them off separate to the main raid and ranged nuke them down (we had him to the right, but that's just where he ends up naturally) - and when they are down he gets dispelled.

Everyone else arcs over to the left, keeping a distance from each other, with MT front and centre. When someone gets the spirit on them they run to where the tank is and drop it off, before returning to their position. MT then tanks the add facing it towards the LK, and everyone else simply nukes. Once the OT is free, he comes across and takes the spirits from the MT in preparation for next phase. Ranged switch to orbs when they are in range, and healers keep on top of any damage in the lighting arc, as we're spread apart from tanks and one melee it never hits more than 4 people, normally one or two.

Doing this we would normally enter the next phase with one new add and one about to be burnt down, normally it would die before we even got back into contact with the LK. The OT keeps the spirit just on the edge of the platform - with conal damage going to the left, and melee can burn it down asap from the right. I have seen on occassion the add spin around and one shot my rogue with a cone, and it's possible that there is a solution to this issue but we simply used CR on the rare times this happened.

Hope that helps someone :D

Rennadrel
05-27-2010, 08:39 AM
Ok well it's the Valk and Defile phase that is killing us. Generally we have one Raging Spirit up at the time of Quake so we move in and burn it while the OT has LK, ideally we should be killing that spirit as fast as possible and then stacking in the middle for the Valk, then as soon as the Valk has spawned, spreading out to avoid Defile and nuking the Valk down right after Defile since they both happen within 6 seconds of each other by the looks of it.

Theotherone
06-03-2010, 07:09 AM
We made our first real attempts at this last night and appear to have mastered phase one; but the freaking defile is beating the crap out of us. We had healers and range stack in the middle of the platform to the left of the ice block, this way the Valkry will always fly left as you face the throne with the the LK tanked at the inner circle edge in line with the stairs. However, it seems as soon as defile hits, there's no time for the target to run out of the raid. The defile hits and "boom" it's engulfing the whole area. Should we be spread out?

Satorri
06-03-2010, 07:15 AM
Mastering the Defile/Valkyr portion was a hump for my team as well.

The only way we got around it was just getting very accustomed to organizing our collapses and expansions. When Defile is coming everyone spreads out and everyone is mindful of the cast (and the tank calls out who's targeted, though DBM will also announce it to you and /say to those around you if you have that option on). When the Valkyr comes down you want everyone fairly close to the middle, but off to one side so you know where the Valkyr will fly (always the shortest path to the edge). Having a stun cycle is very valuable too, if you have multiple people with stuns, otherwise you just need someone sharp on slows and a lot of focus on killing the Valkyr.

It is challenging of course because they are out of phase on timing so they can come very close together. Practice is the only way to get better, that I've seen. Like you noticed, if people aren't really smart with moving quickly away from Defile, it can overwhelm the platform very quickly.

Theotherone
06-03-2010, 08:13 AM
Mastering the Defile/Valkyr portion was a hump for my team as well.

The only way we got around it was just getting very accustomed to organizing our collapses and expansions. When Defile is coming everyone spreads out and everyone is mindful of the cast (and the tank calls out who's targeted, though DBM will also announce it to you and /say to those around you if you have that option on). When the Valkyr comes down you want everyone fairly close to the middle, but off to one side so you know where the Valkyr will fly (always the shortest path to the edge). Having a stun cycle is very valuable too, if you have multiple people with stuns, otherwise you just need someone sharp on slows and a lot of focus on killing the Valkyr.

It is challenging of course because they are out of phase on timing so they can come very close together. Practice is the only way to get better, that I've seen. Like you noticed, if people aren't really smart with moving quickly away from Defile, it can overwhelm the platform very quickly.

Thanks, this is about where we got in the decision making process i.e. expand/collaspe; but it was getting on midnight so didn't try it out. Glad to know we were thinking along the correct lines.

Andaya
06-07-2010, 01:44 PM
Okay I'd love to get a few tips on the first transition phase. We're about there but it's a little sloppy.

Raid Compositon
Tanks: Main tanking LK = Paladin, Off tanking adds = Death Knight
Healers: Shaman, Paladin & Holy Priest (Disc possibly better, not causing a problem)
Melee: Currently a little fluid because of work & other commitments but pick 2 from rogue, shaman, warrior & another rogue (we don't use 2 rogues at the same time)
Ranged: Warlock, Arcane Mage, Fire Mage (me, recent convert)

Most of our members are ICC25 geared with some heroic pieces thrown in too.

Phase 1: No problem at all. Shaman handles dispels onto the adds tanked by DK perfectly. We usually burn LK to 70% before more than 2 adds are spawned.

Transition:

Our pally tank originally had trouble picking up the Spirits quickly enough before they one shot the range. She now gets the first one pretty well but sometimes, I believe (though I could be wrong) she's getting silenced by Soul Shriek and is sometimes delayed in picking up the second or third. Does that happen to pally tanks?

Our DK is usually twiddling his thumbs at this stage, because he has nothing to do after the horror goes down. Should he getting involved? Is it viable to have the pally pick up the first Spirit and then have the DK pick up the second? One of our raid members said that the DK couldn't have anything on him going into Phase 2 but why would that be? It's the pally who has to go back to tanking the Lich King while we burn down the last Spirit.

(Personally I only switched to fire last night but with good results. During the transition I living bomb all the stuff out on the platform edge (and throw my pyros over there too) and then dps the ice spheres because I have a longer range with fire spells)

Kazeyonoma
06-07-2010, 01:58 PM
yes if your dk OT isn't doing anything he should pick up the spirits instead since he doesn't get silenced from using his abilities, it also depends on who's gonna pick up LK after the transition, whoever is doing the first pickup, should NOT be tanking the adds as they do give a debuff which you'll want the LK tank to be clear of.

chocritmilk
06-07-2010, 08:52 PM
Defile & Valks

What we do is we have everyone run back onto the platform with OT pulling any add or adds still up with him to the LEFT of the platform. (facing throne) Rest of group goes to the RIGHT of platform.

Then when add or adds die OT gets with the group on right side of platform.

We then rotate sides for defile 1st defile is dropped along right side, we all then swap sides ... still near the center but left or right side. We then have a sort of pattern going left then right and so on.

As for valk's people just have to be sure to be as close to middle as you can get, what also helps is if you have a warlock for example they can teleport back on if they get grabbed so we always know if our lock gets grabbed ignore and stay on LK. (just a tip has been mentioned but throwing it out again)

Defile you just have to get used to not being near anyone, really thats the key and you have to see that...

1 - its incoming Defile cast
2 - be some distance from others
3 - react right away if its you and head away from people

Where it gets tricky is if valk & defile will hit same time OR very close within seconds. Our raid lead usually says something like "defile get spread out valk right after so soon as defile drops avoid and head to middle"

Communication is critical also but that is obvious. Everyone alone though must be aware though, we practice sometimes where the RL will say nothing at all so we all stay on our toes and don't always rely on him to say whats incoming =)

I would recommend as you get further also save health stones and health pots for transition from 2 to 2.5 when you have to run back to outer edge... that is even more crazy than 1 to 1.5 running out to edge. in phase 2 with defiles and valks it is quite hectic sometimes so if RL or nobody is watching health of LK when he hits 40% he runs and starts his "aoe bundle of love" and that damage hits hard and fast and if you are not ready and too far away .... that is painful.

Defile & valk really is a dance. You have to get comfortable with that dance, duck and dodge. Defile out valks in. Or as we do it left side right side dropping defiles. Once in a while we get chances to drop defile behind the ice block which is awesome thats optimal for us.

Another last tip, and sorry for long post.... anyone healing with 3 healers .... try with 2. I know that sounds crazy, but more dps helps us push phases, kill valks faster etc.... people worry about being defensive but remember offense helps too. Every group is different of course doing with 2 heals helped us get through it much easier than with 3 heals. Granted, as we learn more and someday try heroic mode (haha will be a while) may need 3 heals for that.

We do LK with tree heals (me) and a holy priest. And if anyone wants info on that let me know I imagine it seems unorthodox. But it seems EASY for us the way we do it =)

Rennadrel
06-12-2010, 08:53 PM
This may seem like a stupid question but for the final phase with the Vile Spirits and Defile, when you are teleported into Forstmourne, does the spirit inside have an aggro table that will kill you if you pull aggro or is there no threat generation for DPSing him?

ferdy30
06-19-2010, 02:22 PM
Ok my 10 man group have finally started to work on LK and we are having a little bit of problems with the first phase :(.
Our make up is
Tanks: 2 warriors
DPS: DK, enhance shammy, rogue, warlock, and typically a feral druid or spriest depending on which is on
Heals: disc priest , holy priest, shammy.

We will be going along good one of the warriors will be tanking the adds everything fine and dandy with the plague then between killing the second big add and the third one spawning we will lose the plague. Part of the problem is that I am unable to keep alot of the little adds on me. Even with my vigilance on the other tank to keep my refresh off of CD I will taunt one and lose aggro very quickly. Short of getting another tanking class has any1 had a warrior OT the adds and if so any suggestions/tips/tricks you can give?

Andaya
06-20-2010, 08:55 AM
Who are you losing aggro to? The DPS doesn't need to be messing with any of the adds you have so if you're losing it to them, then it could be something they are doing. Healers I couldn't be sure about. One issue is, you don't really need that many ghouls on you. How many do you try to have?

Also, is it you losing aggro on ghouls or is it the main tank? Our main tank sometimes had a ghoul peel off him and head towards the healers in range. Although certainly unorthodox, we brought our OT much closer to the gap between range & the MT. Any ghouls that headed towards range were very snappily picked up by the OT this way.

Khilbron
06-22-2010, 04:27 AM
Ok my 10 man group have finally started to work on LK and we are having a little bit of problems with the first phase :(.
Our make up is
Tanks: 2 warriors
DPS: DK, enhance shammy, rogue, warlock, and typically a feral druid or spriest depending on which is on
Heals: disc priest , holy priest, shammy.

We will be going along good one of the warriors will be tanking the adds everything fine and dandy with the plague then between killing the second big add and the third one spawning we will lose the plague. Part of the problem is that I am unable to keep alot of the little adds on me. Even with my vigilance on the other tank to keep my refresh off of CD I will taunt one and lose aggro very quickly. Short of getting another tanking class has any1 had a warrior OT the adds and if so any suggestions/tips/tricks you can give?

I play the role of the the warrior tank in my heroic 10man, for lichking I tank the adds, the thing i find easiest to do to ensure you always have the adds, is glyph your thunder clap for the extra 2 yard range. Vigilance the tank on the LK, when you transition out of P1 you can move your vigilance. Make sure your rogue is always using ToT on the LK tank to counter your vigilance. Keeping vigi on the LK tank means your taunt is always up, target the ghouls, and taunt them one at a time, once they get within 12-14 yards thunderclap to maintain threat. Doing this, I have no problem picking up the adds and holding them.

chocritmilk
06-28-2010, 07:11 PM
I do not think the spirit inside has any aggro table, I have healed inside and all our dps has dps'd inside and not one time has any of them ever mentioned the spirit switching to them.

I do not think it could, for the simple reason that Terenas living or dying affects the encounter and what happens outside with LK, if you could easily taunt off or draw aggro it would make it too easy.

Just my own thoughts though I could be wrong.

Castrophy
06-29-2010, 11:46 AM
My group is having a bit of trouble on phase 1. Our OT is having trouble picking up the ghouls without taunting lk himself. I've read that some people trix and fan of knives or have a ret pally divince storm then bring them to the ot but we have neither of these classes. We were thinking that he could try and single taunt them all and not worry about it being on c/d for the horror because myself as the hunter could m/d it to him. We didn't get a chance to attempt it this way but do you guys think it will work? Also I don't think I mentioned our ot is a pally. our raid comp is as follows.

Prot Warrior
Prot Pally
MM Hunter
Demo Warlock
Unholy DK
Fury Warrior
Ele Sham (Thinking of replacing this person with an arcane mage)
Resto Druid (Replacing this guy with a Resto Sham)
Resto Druid
Holy Pally

Slid
06-29-2010, 02:41 PM
Hello, first of all our setup is; 2 Protection Warriors, 1 Frost DK, 1 Combat Rogue, 1 Arcane Mage, 1 Survival Hunter, 1 Balanced Druid, 1 Restoration Druid, 1 Discipline Priest & 1 Restoration Shaman

We got problems at phase 2 at the Defile, it's like when we're attacking the Val'kyr with 2 melee + off tank one of us gets the debuff and it kills us, and always once in that phase it happens and we can't get through it.. any sugegstions?

Andaya
07-05-2010, 08:54 AM
We got problems at phase 2 at the Defile, it's like when we're attacking the Val'kyr with 2 melee + off tank one of us gets the debuff and it kills us, and always once in that phase it happens and we can't get through it.. any sugegstions?

The solution is fairly simple but you have to trust that it'll work. Those melee characters cannot stack on the flying Valk when defile comes out. Like you said, it will wipe you unless you're super lucky. Our complement of characters shifts around but we've done it with two melee as well.

If the Valk comes out first, they run in, stun it throw some dps on it and then they run away. You don't want defile under the valk. Even if the range kill it, she'll drop the guy being carried in defile. When defile comes out under someone, those melee can run back in. Your mage, rogue, hunter and DK all have access to slows and stuns. If your dps are geared enough for the fight, taking the Valks down shouldn't be a problem, even if the melee can't be there all the time. As a mage, I save my cooldowns for the last raging spirits in transition and tricky Valks.

Shieldie
07-05-2010, 09:21 AM
My group is having a bit of trouble on phase 1. Our OT is having trouble picking up the ghouls without taunting lk himself. I've read that some people trix and fan of knives or have a ret pally divince storm then bring them to the ot but we have neither of these classes. We were thinking that he could try and single taunt them all and not worry about it being on c/d for the horror because myself as the hunter could m/d it to him. We didn't get a chance to attempt it this way but do you guys think it will work? Also I don't think I mentioned our ot is a pally.

I always OT this as a paladin, To keep the plague going, you do not have to taunt all of them, I always keep only 2 or 3 with me at once and let the LK tank keep the rest.
Our hunters MD the shamblers to me (i also keep avengers shield ready for applying ranged threat asap)

Tanking a smaller amount at once ensures the plague will be stacking on the shamblers more effectively as opposed to hopping through each ghoul and wasting time. The shamblers will still be killed off this way by the time the first transition starts (depending on raid dps ofcourse)

the remaining ghouls are quickly killed by aoe / disease as the rest of the raid deals with the first raging

chocritmilk
07-07-2010, 04:06 PM
Slid what you could do is get your 2 melee + the tank to stay spread apart, bosses have good size hit boxes anyway get 1 melee on 1 foot and 1 melee on other but step back a little but still in range then tank is in front of LK. Almost like a triangle around LK.

That way any of you get defile you move outward away from the other 2 melee.

At least that is just an idea.

Mr.Winkle
07-08-2010, 05:01 AM
Regarding Defile.

You have approximately 5 seconds to react to defile. DBM is very slow at marking the defile target, the LK targets the defile target for 5 seconds as he casts it, have the MT call out who the defile target it (assuming you have target of target displayed) and have them move away quickly.

Theotherone
07-08-2010, 05:47 AM
3.5% we got to within 3.5% of downing him last night. I was running around hitting the Vile Spirits with Howling Blast and Blood Boiling and got sucked into Frostmourne where I proceeded to not be able to down the spirit in time despite popping Army. As I watched, the LK was at 17%, the MT went down to a Soul Reaper, the range were running around and dotting the LK, but one by one they all fell - 3.5% (well 13.5%).

We decided our range was dealing with the Vile Spirits just fine while I was in Frostmorune, so we're going to just tank the LK, taunt on Soul Reaper and keep the threat of the tanks 1 and 2. Tomorrow hopefully we get it.

Lågan
07-17-2010, 02:40 PM
What program are you guys filming with.
i wold love to do my own wow movies. but i never find one whit good quality
please tell me. (PM)
Thx fore all the tacts btw. helped me alot =)

glatiz
07-20-2010, 01:28 PM
How about a new video with accurate information in it? good strategy if this was how the fight still goes.

Darksend
07-20-2010, 04:44 PM
How about a new video with accurate information in it? good strategy if this was how the fight still goes.

?

glatiz
07-21-2010, 09:27 AM
recheck p2. valkry are no longer stunable. p3, if you attempt to leave any of those vile spirits up, whether your a tank or not, will guarantee a wipe. other than that, it was a fair movie. Better placing and more distance in phase one with the tanks would be better. strategy 4/5, overall movie though 2/5.

Kazeyonoma
07-21-2010, 09:47 AM
p2 valkyrs are still 100% stunnable. I stunned them probably a dozen times last night. Entire strategies are built around stunning them to allow enough AoE to kill them. I don't think you know what you're talking about. Valks = stunnable. 100% confirmed.

p3, you can leave the vile spirits up and have an OT soak them, I do it both for my 10 and 25 man. we try to kill as many as we can, but any that get close i taunt and tclap them, and they often just blow up on me. You don't have to aoe them all down, just enough for the OT to handle it.

keep in mind these videos were done normally within the first week or so of release, so claiming that our strategies are 4/5 is kind of like saying, hindsight is 20/20. glad you enjoyed the movie to give it a 2/5. Didn't realize we were rating our services now.

Mr.Winkle
07-21-2010, 09:58 AM
A couple of other things worth noting.

Spirits can almost be compeltely ignored and allowed to be soaked by raid as a whole, assuming the raid is correctly spread.

The 30% buff may now make some factors mentioned in the video less relevant than previously.

Aslo how can you complain about the strategy which you percieve as wrong and then give it 4/5 and then say the video earns 2/5. Are you complaining about the quality of the editing or something? People love to troll and criticise, how about making your own though?

5/5 for the tankspot videos from me.

tinyrock
07-24-2010, 08:41 AM
3.5% we got to within 3.5% of downing him last night. I was running around hitting the Vile Spirits with Howling Blast and Blood Boiling and got sucked into Frostmourne where I proceeded to not be able to down the spirit in time despite popping Army. As I watched, the LK was at 17%, the MT went down to a Soul Reaper, the range were running around and dotting the LK, but one by one they all fell - 3.5% (well 13.5%).

We decided our range was dealing with the Vile Spirits just fine while I was in Frostmorune, so we're going to just tank the LK, taunt on Soul Reaper and keep the threat of the tanks 1 and 2. Tomorrow hopefully we get it.

well tbh i find that last phase is the easiest now. well 1st phase is easy as well when u do triangle tacts.
so basically u only need to master 2nd phase with both defile and valkyrs attack at the same time.

when u finish the 2nd transition phase, your MT picks up the LK and tank him close to the edge and the OT takes the raging spirits to the middle of the platform. the dps needs to focus on burning the remaining raging spirits asap (heroism at the middle of 2nd transition phase will help that). once the LK casting vile spirits, all the raid moves to the other side of the platform, while the OT turns the raging spirits to face away from the raid. ALL dps continues on the raging spirits and burn them fast. we managed to do so before the vile spirits where begining to move.
after the raging are dead and the viles are moving, make sure your raid is spread out at least 8 yards apart (i think 5 is enough but better be safe then sorry), and the OT free from raging spirits can immidetly start picking the viles up and absorbing them. when no dps is touching the viles the aggro building of the OT will be very easy. me as warrior just thunder clap when they are near me and many of them will come to me easily. make sure your melee is spreading as well, since 2-3 of them close together with the tank while viles reaching them will mean a lot of dmg done at the same time.
do this on 3rd phase all the time, from side to side, with all the dps focused on the LK and the OT alone grabbing the viles and its an easy kill all the way to the end, and the end will be much faster without loosing dps on the viles. even if some viles manage to explode on your raid, 16k dmg wont kill u if the raiders are 8 yards apart. even if the OT is teleported to frostmourne as long as u are spreading good enough u wont wipe.

Shapeshiifte
07-27-2010, 03:41 AM
I am a feral tank too (new in icc as a tank) and i am getting close to LK atm. I may kill him this week but anyways...
darksend did a very good video! exhelent desrciption etc.
He is a druid so now i got a small of what the fuck i should so with all these CDS! tnx m8! continue good work with RS!!!

Theotherone
07-27-2010, 04:03 AM
well tbh i find that last phase is the easiest now. well 1st phase is easy as well when u do triangle tacts.
so basically u only need to master 2nd phase with both defile and valkyrs attack at the same time.

when u finish the 2nd transition phase, your MT picks up the LK and tank him close to the edge and the OT takes the raging spirits to the middle of the platform. the dps needs to focus on burning the remaining raging spirits asap (heroism at the middle of 2nd transition phase will help that). once the LK casting vile spirits, all the raid moves to the other side of the platform, while the OT turns the raging spirits to face away from the raid. ALL dps continues on the raging spirits and burn them fast. we managed to do so before the vile spirits where begining to move.
after the raging are dead and the viles are moving, make sure your raid is spread out at least 8 yards apart (i think 5 is enough but better be safe then sorry), and the OT free from raging spirits can immidetly start picking the viles up and absorbing them. when no dps is touching the viles the aggro building of the OT will be very easy. me as warrior just thunder clap when they are near me and many of them will come to me easily. make sure your melee is spreading as well, since 2-3 of them close together with the tank while viles reaching them will mean a lot of dmg done at the same time.
do this on 3rd phase all the time, from side to side, with all the dps focused on the LK and the OT alone grabbing the viles and its an easy kill all the way to the end, and the end will be much faster without loosing dps on the viles. even if some viles manage to explode on your raid, 16k dmg wont kill u if the raiders are 8 yards apart. even if the OT is teleported to frostmourne as long as u are spreading good enough u wont wipe.

Thanks, this is bascially what we did when we finally downed him. Only difference was out of p2, I picked up the LK and the MT took the remaining spirit, since I can handle a Soul Reaper a bit better with AMS, then our warrior.

Donken
08-17-2010, 07:11 AM
So my raid group seems to think that if we snare/stun/slow the shambling horrors during the phase 1-2 transition, while they're on the edge of the platform, they will fall to their death. We will either do this with holy wrath, or with a Elemental Shaman's talented earth bind totem

I have searched high and low trying to find out of if this works, and the closest I can find is someone said "this use to work, but I'm not sure if it works now" and someone who said "occasionally when this happens it glitches and they come back invisible"

Has anyone used this strategy before, and is it viable/consistent?

Oh also we attempted this a few times, but the first try holy wrath didn't go off right, and the second try they got stunned RIGHT on the edge. It was late so we quit after those attempts.

Vyndir
08-17-2010, 08:19 PM
No, this will not work. On several of my 10m's attempts on the lk we have had occasions where a raging spirit, and in one instance a raging spirit and a shambling, fell off the edge, but instead of dying they are just warped up to the platform again. The problem with this is that they may reappear no where near the off tank and may start frontal coning/shockwaving the raid while running towards him/her.

The only reason we had a Shambling up on that one transition was due to a dps getting to close to the shambling, getting the disease then somehow getting out of range of either player or ghoul/shambling before they were dispelled leaving no disease up to kill the shambling at all. Having a shambling and a raging spirit up at the beginning of phase two made it....well much more stressful lol. Regardless, the disease should be enough to take out the shambling on its own. Mastering the disease in phase 1 is key to a cleaner phase 1.5 and a cleaner transition into phase 2.

obiwayne
08-27-2010, 08:23 PM
Does anyone have any advice (if there's any?!) for Pally Tanks dealing with those Raging Spirits? We're running with two pally tanks and I'm having a devil of a time tanking them because of that silence cone crap they use. The other issue is the first one pops up and immediately one-shots a clothie before the MT can taunt it (this is while I as OT am still holding any leftover Shambling Horrors and Drudge Ghouls, and LK is in the middle doing that Winter attack) - MT has been taking two of them while they get burned down, I pick up the third as the platform collapses, and then we're running into problems as people run past the spirit and get hit with that silence cone.

Our setup is that I (OT) stand in the NE corner (as you appear from the transporter), up on a patch next to the big ice wall. Everyone else is to my left, like just behind that one pillar that's there. The MT tanks LK right at the foot of the steps. When the first transition hits, everyone runs left, and when the platform breaks everyone except me runs to the middle.

Erja
08-27-2010, 08:30 PM
Does anyone have any advice (if there's any?!)

One suggestion would be to tank the raging spirits so they face towards the LK (your back is to LK). This makes sure that you are in proper position to quickly move off the falling platform in phase 2 and also prevents any dps or healers from getting cone aoed while you're tanking the spirits.

Also, if you're getting 3 raging spirits up during the first transition phase I might suggest you have a dps problem and/or necrotic plague problem that's not killing off the horrors and ghouls fast enough. You should also ask your raiders to move away from the raging spirit as it spawns if the tank picking it up quickly is an issue. The further folks are from it the more time your tanks have to pick it up before it 1-shots somebody. You will lose some dps time though doing this, so I'd recommend figuring out a way for your tanks to pick the adds up more quickly. You should be able to taunt and get aggro on it during the 1-2 second window in which it is coming out of the selected raid member before it moves around and starts attacking people.

Good luck - our guild just got a kill on LK 10-man last week and it felt great :)

Didi
09-12-2010, 05:40 AM
For 10man version i find it easier to start tanking LK out on the edge, since you don't need to run out for transision phase.. just let LK run into the middle. By doing so you also have the horrors out at the side, all people need to do then is move into 2 groups which people almost already are since we got 1 group with melee and tanks and 1 with ranged and healers.

Fhres
09-12-2010, 03:09 PM
Does anyone have advice for LK25H phase 2?
We are wiping there for months now and it totally sucks. Sometimes it's defile, which is laid wrong but most of the time the valkyrs just fly in different - or slightly different directions. I just don't know what to do; our tank mostly is with his back at the inner ring and our raid 'tries' to be on a symbol behind him, but it really doesn't work. In most videos people don't even seem to care to stand together in one spot but all valks fly nearly perfectly.
Any advice maybe that helped your guild and may help us?

THANK YOU!

Kazeyonoma
09-13-2010, 10:32 AM
valks will always fly the shortest distance possible to lift the person off, if your raid is getting picked up in different directions, they're not stacking close enough together and on the right side.

Raitenmaru
09-14-2010, 10:53 AM
Well first time we will try LK10man normal tonight going to be a mission to get him down.

smartikat
09-21-2010, 11:17 AM
Hello,

We are struggling with LK 25. Particularly how to handle Defile and 3 Valks.

Over 30 wipes now, and we can't seem to get people to drop defile properly (away from raid). I like to know how to handle it in the following case...

a) Defile with no Valk is up. Should I ask the raid to spread out?
b) Defile with Valks up and we are dpsing it. I told Melee if they have defile, run to the stair while the rest of us move the opposite direction.
c) Defile and Valk on top of each other? Do we stack up? or Spread out? If spread out, how much? Inner circle spread out?

I will admit that we are not the brightest, even with assigned direction to run, people either run out too slow or people just didn't even know the defile is on their feet. I need a fool proof way to handle it. I even tried "Defile run left, no Defile run right strat"... Everytime the defile is on MELEE, I know we will wipe. idea? suggestions?

Thanks

Kat.

Kazeyonoma
09-21-2010, 02:28 PM
a) yes ask the raid to spread out, unless the valks are coming in <3 seconds then you'll just have to pray people who get defile know to move out fast. (simplest way is just have people drop defile near the throne, the valks will never take a person over that direction.
b) just have the melee run left/right from the path of the valks, don't drop them in front or behind and you'll be good.
c) timing will be key, if defile comes before valk, spread out, then once defile target is called people have to be fast at collapsing for the valks. if valks come first, stack until they select, fire off your stuns, and have everyone spread out for defile, once it's selected, everyone get back on their valk target.

if people run slow, you're gonna have problems.

Mishnee
10-01-2010, 08:19 PM
I was wondering, is the Lich King diarmable? If so, I wonder if Improved disarm would be useful. I say this from the OT perspective, in phase 2 I'm not doing a lot when the valks are not out. Any little bit I can do to help the raid dps would be useful. I asking because I was going to do a respec soon and figured I might try to pick up the talent if it would have any use. Granted, this is not a perfect talent to have all the time. However, as a guild we've rebuilt (half the raiders left several months ago when we were just starting working on LK) and were back to doing solid LK attempts and right now the goal is to get him down so picking up the talent would be for this purpose. We're close to getting it and I figured that any extra help I can do to get us through phase 2 faster could not hurt.

smartikat
10-04-2010, 10:57 AM
Nope, not disarmable. It's been a long time since any boss is actually disarmable. Last one was ToC 10, Beast.

Quinafoi
10-05-2010, 02:21 PM
I was wondering, is the Lich King diarmable? If so, I wonder if Improved disarm would be useful. I say this from the OT perspective, in phase 2 I'm not doing a lot when the valks are not out. Any little bit I can do to help the raid dps would be useful. I asking because I was going to do a respec soon and figured I might try to pick up the talent if it would have any use. Granted, this is not a perfect talent to have all the time. However, as a guild we've rebuilt (half the raiders left several months ago when we were just starting working on LK) and were back to doing solid LK attempts and right now the goal is to get him down so picking up the talent would be for this purpose. We're close to getting it and I figured that any extra help I can do to get us through phase 2 faster could not hurt.

Better talent for you to pick up as the off tank would be Safeguard since you can trivialize Soul Reaper completely with proper usage of Intervene. Not to mention as already indicated, the Lich King is immune to disarm... until someone else disarms him for you.

Noctric
10-07-2010, 09:54 PM
so i have a question about phase 2 on the lk fight. Im a druid and during this phase i have been tasked to Entangling roots on the Val'kyrs. it keeps telling me that they're immune is that normal or am i bugged?

Martie
10-07-2010, 10:05 PM
Nope, it's normal. They can be stunned, not rooted. Slowing effects cap out at 50%.

Sossuor
11-06-2010, 02:23 AM
i would like some more specific details for healers.what should they do?i mean excepti keeping everyone alive... :)

smartikat
11-08-2010, 02:12 PM
For healers? Well, pretty much the same as everyone besides healing.

a) Don't stand in defile (or drop defile in grp)
b) Grp up when Valk pops
c) Move if you spawn raging spirit
d) Get to the Horror (behind it) if you get the plague
e) Don't stand in Raging spirit's silence AoE
f) Move inside the room when Quake hits.
g) Heal the NPC if you got suck into the Frostmourne room (Havast soul)
h) Watch the Ice sphere when walk back inside the room.
i) Move away from vile spirits and heal the soaker

Also... Depends on your class and spec as a healer
1) Bubble everyone before infest (Disc Priest)
2) Cleanse the Plague when the person is in position
3) Heal tank(s) like crazy during soul reaper.
4) Heal the player who got havast soul
5) Heal the tank(s) and give external cooldown to tank(s) if anyone died from Havast soul

So, Cliff note:
a) Heal
b) Don't suck

Jaspar
11-09-2010, 03:59 PM
My guild is still struggling mightily with phase2 10man normal.
It's a casual guild with players too polite to point out someone else's mistakes, so I can't really be sure what the problem is. Our RL (resto druid) blames himself for not being able to keep up with infest when we're all spreading out to avoid defile. So I guess we just need advice on healing phase2. Maybe if we fix that we'll identify other problems we're having.

We run with RestoDruid, DiscPriest, HolyPaladin

Is there a particular way for this combination of healer classes to work together and help us through p2?
(in case it matters, the rest of the raid is ProtWarrior, BearDruid, UnholyDK, ArcMage, FireMage, EleShaman and MarksmanHunter)
Thanks

Bovinity
11-09-2010, 04:13 PM
Our RL (resto druid) blames himself for not being able to keep up with infest when we're all spreading out to avoid defile.
We run with RestoDruid, DiscPriest, HolyPaladin

The stuff in bold, that's his job. The resto druid shouldn't need to be having headaches over infest when there's a disc priest right there. Especially now that Rejuvenation is much lower duration. That's a huge part of the disc priests job in that fight.

Mr.Winkle
11-11-2010, 05:08 AM
Perhaps the problem is a range issue, as in if people are spreading so far for defile they're out of the healers range when infest goes off?

If that's the case then i'd suggest not running to far for your defile spreads, it really isn't neccessary to be spread more than a few yards apart from each other as long as everyone's aware they'll have to move when defile goes off.

If that's not the case then it just sounds like your healers aren't reacting fast enough to defile. All 3 healers should be running boss timers so you should know when defile's about to hit. Your Disc priest should be prebubbling the raid, and your Druid can help with wildgrowths. Even the Pala can top off 3/4+ people with a Light of Dawn.

Xia
11-21-2010, 01:18 PM
Thanks for the video, really helpful.
I was curious though, what addon are you using that puts your heals on the side. That looks nice and I'd love to try that out.

Baan
11-22-2010, 08:03 AM
Can the Valks be help temporarily in place by a hunters pet that can use a venom web spray, or are they immune?

Quinafoi
11-22-2010, 09:08 AM
Can the Valks be help temporarily in place by a hunters pet that can use a venom web spray, or are they immune?

They can be slowed, dazed, or stunned only. Stun is the only effect which can lock them in place for a short duration. All slows also have a limit of 50%, they can't be slowed beyond 50%.

Theotherone
11-22-2010, 09:18 AM
My guild is still struggling mightily with phase2 10man normal.
It's a casual guild with players too polite to point out someone else's mistakes, so I can't really be sure what the problem is. Our RL (resto druid) blames himself for not being able to keep up with infest when we're all spreading out to avoid defile. So I guess we just need advice on healing phase2. Maybe if we fix that we'll identify other problems we're having.

We run with RestoDruid, DiscPriest, HolyPaladin

Is there a particular way for this combination of healer classes to work together and help us through p2?
(in case it matters, the rest of the raid is ProtWarrior, BearDruid, UnholyDK, ArcMage, FireMage, EleShaman and MarksmanHunter)
Thanks

With a Disc priest, infest should be a bit of a non-issue. Have him/her time his/her Divine Shield for when Defile is going to hit; DBM will give you a count down. Also, and I found with our groups one issue as we take guildies new to the fight in to get them the title is "freaking out during defile". You have to train the raid, they need to move out of the middle for defile, but not run to the end of the earth; also they need to be aware of who's got the defile, if it's not them and it's not some one zoning out in the middle - the clean players need to get their butts back to the middle - "oh, Defile target is across the room, the middle is safe let me get back in before a Valk comes and takes me away." People need to actually talk on vent during the fight, we allow (encourage) anyone in raid to call out in vent time to Defile and Valk - it's like an alarm clock and wakes people up who might be getting tunnel vision. Also, since I was tanking the LK this weekend, I was calling the hunters to the middle; they get hung up on their min range and Valk love stray hunters. It's really a fight about situational awareness and being your brothers keeper.

Runedminion
11-22-2010, 09:28 AM
The stuff in bold, that's his job. The resto druid shouldn't need to be having headaches over infest when there's a disc priest right there. Especially now that Rejuvenation is much lower duration. That's a huge part of the disc priests job in that fight.

Really the druid shouldn't have to worry about any of the infest... The disc priest should be blanketing the raid with bubbles the entire fight... holy pally healing the tanks... there isnt enough damage going out in this fight that you need three healers so boot the resto druid from the group/ have him switch to dps or pick up another dps because 3 healers for 10man is over doing it... and making fights harder than they need to be. If you cut your dps by adding extra healers it takes longer to kill bosses, thus making it harder for the healers because the boss is up longer leaving more room for error. Killing bosses fast and hard, quick transitions, and smart players make the fights easy... But the main goal is to kill him so, practice is key here... put in some solid attempts and work at it because thats what its gonna take for your guys to kill him...

Quinafoi
11-22-2010, 11:37 AM
there isnt enough damage going out in this fight that you need three healers

Most groups don't use three healers because of the intensiveness of healing. They use three healers because one of the healers could be incapacitated by being picked up by a Val'kyr or being pulled into Frostmourne, which only leaves you two healers active to cover both raid and tank healing. While it is possible a single healer can last long enough during this timeframe until the other healer is free to act again, having a third healer provides you with a backup.

Mordus
03-03-2011, 05:11 AM
tankspot - cheers for all the help got me Bane of the Fallen King title :D WOOT!!

Marquessa
03-04-2011, 07:48 AM
Haha, I thought the Scourge were the only thing brought back from the dead. :)