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View Full Version : How do you keep the people you set aside in the guild ?



Sitar
02-08-2010, 01:02 AM
Hi,

I'm an officier and raid leader in a guild who can get up to 35 raiders ready for the raids. The fact is that i can only get 25 people in it, and many times i have to set aside the same people. They're a bit under in terms of skill but we still need same in case of...i really dont know how to handle them. We try to run a second R25 but it's a lot of work and we need to recruit a lot.

I've either the option of simply remove them from the guild and recruit, but i'll still have the problem of needed backup.

How do you handle it ?

Papapaint
02-08-2010, 03:54 AM
Part of it involves understanding people's strengths and weaknesses, and encouraging a certain level of competition within your own guild. Every week, we have around 30 raiders saved to our ICC 25 ID. We swap people in and out if they underperform or aren't suited to the fight for whatever reason.

Jeszaera
02-08-2010, 08:24 AM
You can also modify your DKP system to reward the people on the bench, and then offer them a chance to come in on the easier fights (namely all the puggable bosses, hehe) if some of your core are set for gear and willing to step out. Unfortunately, eventually some people might get to the point where they'd be happier with a less progressed guild that will put them on their "starting lineup", so to speak :/

Musclebound
02-08-2010, 12:49 PM
No matter how many teams your guild runs, somebody is gonna get left out. Managing raids takes quite a bit of effort and you can only do so much. Usually if people complain to me about raid invites I explain to them why they didn't get to go and also encourage them to improve, or, if they don't like how I run my raids, they can feel free to start their own. Some of these people end up leaving, some of them end up getting booted because they refuse to leave but continue to cause drama. Ultimately everybody has to be looking for the good fo the guild as a whole and not just themselves. The people that aren't end up leaving sooner or later anyway.

Gehn
02-08-2010, 01:06 PM
No matter how many teams your guild runs, somebody is gonna get left out. Managing raids takes quite a bit of effort and you can only do so much. Usually if people complain to me about raid invites I explain to them why they didn't get to go and also encourage them to improve, or, if they don't like how I run my raids, they can feel free to start their own. Some of these people end up leaving, some of them end up getting booted because they refuse to leave but continue to cause drama. Ultimately everybody has to be looking for the good fo the guild as a whole and not just themselves. The people that aren't end up leaving sooner or later anyway.

This is exactly how our raid leadership deals with the issue. When available (When 1 wing was available in ICC), we would set one of our raid days to help those who are not in the raid rotation, but want to be. ToC25 for them helps both gear and identification of areas of improvement with those people who want to join.

Walbomb
02-11-2010, 09:44 AM
We've been starting to try this approach when it comes to raid spots.

Don't consider there being 25 raid spots. Consider there being 25 * X amount of bosses. So if you are planning on doing 5 bosses then you have 125 raid spots a night. You swap in lower dps people for the easier fights, swap in people for fights if they need a specific piece of loot, etc. This way no one sits for a whole night and pretty much everyone will get in for 50%-75% of the fights. This also allows for people who just got new gear to go out and get it enchanted and gemmed, people take their raid breaks during these times as well.

Musclebound
02-12-2010, 02:49 AM
We've been starting to try this approach when it comes to raid spots.

Don't consider there being 25 raid spots. Consider there being 25 * X amount of bosses. So if you are planning on doing 5 bosses then you have 125 raid spots a night. You swap in lower dps people for the easier fights, swap in people for fights if they need a specific piece of loot, etc. This way no one sits for a whole night and pretty much everyone will get in for 50%-75% of the fights. This also allows for people who just got new gear to go out and get it enchanted and gemmed, people take their raid breaks during these times as well.

I don't agree with that. I bring people to the raid that intend to stay the whole raid, however far we go. Bringing in the undergeared people for the easy bosses isn't fair to the people that will have to replace them later in the instance, they lose out on emblems from the easy bosses, rep, in the case of ICC, then get the heavy repair bill because they're getting brought in to the part where we're likely to wipe a lot? All because they have better gear/performance? Screw that. That's a great way to have your raid team completely fall apart.

I've made it clear to my raiders that it's possible to perform more than adequately for ICC 10 in the 232 gear you get from badges, filling in whatever empty slots you have left with a few runs through ToC 10 or 25, which we still do every week. We also encourage them to pug these raids if they won't be able to make it when we schedule these runs. If you have that level of gear and aren't able to perform at the level we ask for in ICC ( and i think our standards are ridiculously low) then you need to fix your rotation or spec, end of story. Getting gear from Icecrown is only going to improve you slightly and someone that plays better could make better use of it for the guilds benefit.

Walbomb
02-12-2010, 07:11 AM
The method I mentioned certainly doesn't work for all guilds but it's been working out decent for ours so far the last 2 weeks we've been taking this approach. It's simply a way to get more raiders involved in a raid night when you are consistently having more raiders show up than raid spots. I agree that if you have people with sub par performance because of lack of skill you don't want to bring them period. Our guild doesn't have that problem though, we have dps at the bottom of the charts still putting up good numbers, just not as high as the others. A few people doing 7k (for example) is fine for most bosses in the first 2 wings but we may want to swap them out with a couple 8k or 9k dps people for a couple of the progressive bosses we are trying to take down and plan accordingly. Plus if handled right no one person sits for more than a boss or two. Another thing is there are very few raiders in our guild that aren't exalted with the Ashen Verdict already or who still need frost emblems for gear still so that's a non-issue for us.

Like I said it's not a system for all guilds but it is an option.

shez
02-13-2010, 03:15 AM
I'm sometimes having exactly the same problem. In the past few weeks we had over 35 online on wednesday and dropping by the end of the week we had to use non raiders to fill the spots. (not sure whether your guild is having this problem but i assume so if you need backup sometimes.

Starting from last week i clearly stated invite priority will go by previous week attendance.

I do have to sit the same people out every time becuase they are underperforming. But the question is, do you want them in guild if they are underperforming? no. I wouldn't worry if they complain and leave. I am usually very honest to them and tell them they will only be backup raiders if they dont' show improvement.

I'd say, just try to get your good raiders happy and invite them to raids, occasionally some raider wont mind sitting out for trials etc on easy bosses when they dont need loots (or don't have the dkp)

Sometimes we do an alt run on monday night (our last official raid night) taking alts and raiders who aren't saved, most of them were happy with it. If you want to raid a 2nd ICC25, this could be an option without the need of recruiting.