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Dragaan
02-06-2010, 07:40 AM
I've watched a few videos of the lich king fight on 10man, and I understand most of the fight pretty well. One thing I can't seem to find information on is his Soul Reaper ability. For anyone who knows, when is this cast and how do you deal with it? We're getting ready to do our 10man attempts in 2 groups tomorrow so I'm trying to figure out all of this beforehand. Thanks.

Narlya
02-06-2010, 09:56 AM
http://sanctumguild.org/index.php?topic=265.0

You should find it there, it's an ability that's used on the MT, and it's affected by all damage reduction mechanics so it shouldn't be anything more than a large hit.

gacktt
02-06-2010, 08:21 PM
Armor does reduce it right? even if it's shadow? cause a 35kish instant attack followed by 30k-40k auto attacks for 5 seconds seem excessive for a 10man.

Dragaan
02-08-2010, 06:02 AM
Armor does reduce it right? even if it's shadow? cause a 35kish instant attack followed by 30k-40k auto attacks for 5 seconds seem excessive for a 10man.

No, it was hitting me for 40-45k shadow damage w/o a cooldown up. It's actually pretty simple to avoid dying to this ability tho.

gacktt
02-08-2010, 08:26 AM
nvm, delete this post.

Darksend
02-08-2010, 03:26 PM
Armor does reduce it right? even if it's shadow? cause a 35kish instant attack followed by 30k-40k auto attacks for 5 seconds seem excessive for a 10man.

not sure where you are getting this from. His average melee swing is only about 15K.

I covered this in the video but the ideal way to do this by class (since it happens every 30 seconds)

druid: alternate 4-pc set bonus and barkskin

DK: alternate 4-pc with vamp blood and you still have IBF for whenever something bad happens like your tank healer getting defile

warrior: 4-pc shield wall 4-pc last stand

paladin: every single one will be reduced by 20% because it will almost always take you below 35% health

Depending on your healing setup you have external cooldowns as well, PS/GS, pally sac, and an offtank to taunt which is what we do in phase 3 because the offtank is doing nothing there if not taunting.

The only real reason not to taunt is if your offtank is a warrior who is handling the valkyr. Charge->conc blow->shield bash daze

It is unresistable because it is "shadowstrike" damage not shadow damage. One time barkskin had 1 second on cooldown when I got the debuff so I thought I hit it, had I noticed I would have had time to hit it but I was moving at the time and did not see. Well anyway it only hit me for 42K and I still had enough to survive a melee swing afterward even if I had not been healed.

The reason you do not see it hit for 50K ever is passive reduction modifiers.

felhoof
02-08-2010, 04:05 PM
I've seen several logs where it's resisted partially. I don't see how it's not resistable. And no, this isn't the stance modifiers or absorbs; this is the log saying 'resist:x' in it.

Darksend
02-08-2010, 04:14 PM
Then it goes against the new convention of resist plateaus because even mark should provide at least a 10% resist always no?

OOOOOO nvm I know what you saw. The initial application is also called soul reaper. That does about 20K-25K damage like any instant attack. That I too have seen resisted, but I just rewatched the video and I never saw the 50K explosion resist.

felhoof
02-08-2010, 04:25 PM
Then it goes against the new convention of resist plateaus because even mark should provide at least a 10% resist always no?No, that's not how it works at all. Mark would give you the 0-10-20 category, which would give you an average resist of something like 7% but a minimum resist of 0%. You have to get to something like 135 to get a minimum 10% resist (and 20+% average resist).

But, I think you're right. Looking at the logs I see a pattern like that:
[19:58:16.434] The Lich King Soul Reaper Angrif 18301 (R: 9726)
[19:58:16.434] Angrif afflicted by Soul Reaper from The Lich King
[19:58:21.559] The Lich King Soul Reaper Angrif 41673 (A: 1223)
So 5 seconds later the big tick goes off.
[20:29:27.856] The Lich King Soul Reaper Angrif 19494 (A: 3919, R: 11696)
[20:29:27.856] Angrif afflicted by Soul Reaper from The Lich King
[20:29:32.918] The Lich King Soul Reaper Angrif 38662 (A: 4234)
[20:29:32.918] Angrif's Soul Reaper fades

[21:25:03.262] The Lich King Soul Reaper Angrif 17359 (A: 1284, R: 9610)
[21:25:03.262] Angrif afflicted by Soul Reaper from The Lich King
[21:25:08.278] The Lich King Soul Reaper Angrif 40338 (A: 3884)
[21:25:08.278] Angrif's Soul Reaper fades

So yeah, the big shot is not resistable. But the first one is. So it's likely the best strat is to make sure you have a CD up or more likely just taunt after being hit by it and let your other tank explode.

Darksend
02-08-2010, 04:29 PM
Yea, my raid did both. like I said in phase 2 the offtank would be slowing the valkyrs so I was alternating barkskin and 4-pc but in phase 3 he would taunt every time I got it and as soon as I got healed back up, letting me eat every single one and allowed him to taunt some of the vile spirits and run them out of the raid, and also allowing me to save my cooldowns incase something bad happened to a healer

Darksend
02-08-2010, 07:54 PM
ummmmmm

I just had it resist, the big nuke, first time in 14 10 man attempts and 9 25 man attempts. wonder if they changed something ?

gacktt
02-08-2010, 10:37 PM
Yeah I guess 20k+ average hits was cutting it a bit high. His first hit on me was 28k before vindication was applied, and our logs show his average auto attack was 16700.--- So do people actually tank swap on it? we never had a tank death on it though at times our pally got low and I just intervened to help out, I'm usually free unless I have to stunlock a valkyr.

Dragaan
02-09-2010, 07:01 AM
It's really not very hard to deal with. Most people could/should probably use a tank swap simply because it's pretty easy to do. You only need 1 tank when soul reaper is going off. Right after a transition phase, when we still had a raging spirit or two up, is when I would pop a cooldown and just eat it myself. The tank swapping went off relatively smoothly in all attempts. Finally killed him last night on our very last attempt! :) Was probably the most satisfying kill since m'uru in sunwell (yes, even tho it was 10man normal-mode).

Bishoptwo
02-11-2010, 12:25 AM
This pertains to 25 man:

Feral Druid on Arthas.

Me (Prot Warrior) = OT, Valkyr stun duty etc.

I actually picked up safeguard (30 percent reduced damage on your intervene target for 6 seconds). Only time I've ever used this talent in Wrath and now with devastate being buffed I have 2 filler points floating around so I thought I would try this for our Arthas 25 man.

Not sure if they have fixed this yet but you can get really unlucky and take the initial soul reaper tick and a melee swing with in literally a tenth of a second of each other. If you don't resist any of the tick this is around 60k damage. Like I said this rarely happened but can happen. I think out of 17 attempts on 25 man it happened twice maybe.

Anyways I liked safeguard for this. Intervene is up for every Soul Reaper and I can intervene/charge/intercept around the fight to entertain myself while stunning Valkyrs.

Hamburglar
02-13-2010, 09:18 AM
So I'm curious as to how this ability actually works. There is an initial shadow damage attack that places a debuff on the tank. 5 seconds later the debuff goes off for a 40k hit or so. When and for how long does the LK hit for 100% physical damage? Is it after the initial debuff is applied or after the 5 seconds are done and the 40k hit?

Copernicus
02-13-2010, 12:07 PM
I don't believe the Lich King gets a 100% physical damage boost. I never felt he was hitting any harder after or during a Soul Reaper.

The initial hit is 60K Shadow damage (can be resisted).
The second hit is five seconds after that, hitting for 60K Shadowstrike damage (Physical or Shadow, whichever is worst for the player).

---

Best solution is to use a cooldown for every Soul Reaper just before it hits. It has a cooldown of 30 seconds.

Darksend
02-13-2010, 02:17 PM
if you watch my 10 man video you will see the first time I get soul reapered I mouse over the debuff lich king gets and it says 100% haste. Therefore one of the 2 tooltips is wrong. I am inclined to say it is 100% haste not 100% damage.

felhoof
02-15-2010, 11:17 AM
On 25-man it's 100% damage. He starts hitting for about 40k an attack. On 10-man I bet it's 100% haste, but I haven't parsed the logs personally.

Darksend
02-15-2010, 11:30 AM
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=69410

felhoof
02-15-2010, 12:19 PM
Yes, I understand that's what the tooltip says. That's not necessarily what it does. But heck, I'll go look it up and see:

[19:53:02.192] The Lich King hits Raigon 31895 (B: 3848)
[19:53:04.629] The Lich King hits Raigon 34436 (A: 1410)
(note that this is about 2.5 seconds apart per attack)
[19:53:12.323] The Lich King casts Soul Reaper on Raigon
[19:53:12.384] The Lich King Soul Reaper Raigon 34296 (R: 10448)
[19:53:12.384] Raigon afflicted by Soul Reaper from The Lich King
[19:53:14.682] The Lich King hits Raigon Dodge
[19:53:17.103] The Lich King hits Raigon Miss
(still 2.5 seconds)
[19:53:17.325] The Lich King Soul Reaper Raigon 29542
[19:53:17.379] Raigon's Soul Reaper fades
[19:53:18.635] The Lich King hits Raigon 23886
[19:53:19.887] The Lich King hits Raigon 18578 (B: 3298)
(1.2 seconds apart)
[19:53:21.055] The Lich King hits Raigon 21605 (B: 6596)
(1.2 seconds apart)
[19:53:22.224] The Lich King hits Raigon 17348 (B: 3298)
(1.2 seconds apart)
[19:53:24.087] The Lich King hits Raigon 18735 (B: 6596)
(1.9 seconds apart)
[19:53:26.509] The Lich King hits Raigon Parry
(2.5 seconds apart)

So yes, it does appear that he's getting hasted on 25 man too. For about 7 seconds.

Copernicus
02-15-2010, 09:49 PM
[21:31:21.474] Mendel gains Barkskin from Mendel
[21:31:21.474] Mendel casts Barkskin
[21:31:21.618] The Lich King's Demoralizing Roar fades
[21:31:22.666] The Lich King hits Mendel 31386 (A: 2321)
[21:31:22.666] The Lich King casts Soul Reaper on Mendel
[21:31:22.848] The Lich King Soul Reaper Mendel 29271 (O: 15733, R: 7103)

That wasn't fun. :(

Casper7526
02-16-2010, 12:21 AM
No it's not fun, and we've had quite a few wipes because of it as well, anyone else get the combat log/recount screwed up too? Where it shows something like

TANK 100%
Melee tank for 35k
Tank 100%
Heals (overhealing)
Soul Reaper Tank for 35k (KILL!?)

None-the-less, it's retarded that LK can basically hit you for 70k within .5 seconds.

Casper7526
02-16-2010, 12:23 AM
Oh sorry to double post, but this is another VERY useful trick.

Druid is tanking, he takes Soul Reaper.
I'm the warrior OT and watching dxe timer for Soul Reaper explosion.
INTERVENE at 1 second.
Bam, I take the explosion as if I taunted ;)

It's very useful and very repeatable.

Nomiss
02-18-2010, 05:05 PM
We use a taunt rotation for the soul reaper... Didn't filter it really good but the log looks like

[20:18:42.076] The Lich King Soul Reaper Kewan 18424 (R: 9791)
[20:18:43.562] Nomiss casts Taunt on The Lich King
[20:18:44.349] The Lich King hits Nomiss 17411
[20:18:47.119] The Lich King Soul Reaper Kewan 37736 (A: 2586)
[20:18:49.157] The Lich King hits Nomiss 9664 (A: 8481)
[20:18:50.508] The Lich King hits Nomiss 22988
[20:18:53.334] The Lich King hits Nomiss 18838

What we do is, that we let the first tank (Kewan in this case) takes the first hit for Soul Reaper, then the other tank (me) taunts with in the first 5 sec and take the melee hits and let the other tank take the Soul Reaper hit. From looking at the logs from the fight it was not soul reaper that killed us. It was a melee swing + soul reaper...

That 4-5 sec window is enough for the OT to get in possition and taunt. This mean that we can save our cooldowns for more important stuff.
The only reason i had to usa a cooldown was in in the start of every phase, reason was that we didn't wanna maka a swap when we had Spirits up from the transition phase.

When we started to use this, we never died from Soul Reaper.

If you wanna look at the whole log, here it is http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/0i9w8ifasskt3ukj/?s=5102&e=6647

gacktt
02-18-2010, 11:49 PM
DK-Druid-Paladin tank -> Enough cd's to cycle through reaper. Warrior tank -> Spec safeguard and be the off tank, intervene when soul reaper is casted.

Proletaria
02-19-2010, 02:42 AM
A DK is going to have a hard time trying to CD every reaper himself without the 4set cooldown in combination with vb (and even then it's pretty harry at times, especially when synched up with a defile forcing non-mobile healers like paladins to use weaker heals than usual or delay their cast).

We've been having the OT taunt off every-other soul-reaper, allowing me to bundle cooldowns (vb,trinkets for one, ibf for the other). It's a hell of a lot safer, but can be problematic if my OT is off stunning a valk or worse, battling his way out of frostmourne.

Dragaan
02-19-2010, 07:14 AM
It's sooo much safer to just use a cooldown for the initial hit each time and have the other tank taunt asap before the 2nd hit goes off.

swelt
02-19-2010, 08:00 AM
Last week I was trying this with a blood dk offtank. We were settling into a routine of shield wall or ibf for the first soul reaper then last stand or vamp blood for the 2nd. When the 2nd was applied, the other tank would taunt. That meant we were fully eating the first one, but with a damage reduction, and splitting the shadow damage from the haste buff on the next. It seemed to be working fairly well, but we haven't killed him yet (getting to phase 3 fairly reliably).

Gnurken
02-19-2010, 03:53 PM
Last week I was trying this with a blood dk offtank. We were settling into a routine of shield wall or ibf for the first soul reaper then last stand or vamp blood for the 2nd. When the 2nd was applied, the other tank would taunt. That meant we were fully eating the first one, but with a damage reduction, and splitting the shadow damage from the haste buff on the next. It seemed to be working fairly well, but we haven't killed him yet (getting to phase 3 fairly reliably).

Spec into SafeGuard and let the DK handle most of the Lich King tanking with you intervene:ing each Soul Reaper. It's kinda amazing that we finally find a use for this talent and it turns out to be totally overpowered for this encounter.

Dragaan
02-20-2010, 08:26 AM
I guess it works if you want the DK to save his cooldowns for things other than soul reaper. For handling soul reaper tho, there's nothing wrong with just alternating tanks on lich king. I was able to stun valkyrs just fine while tanking the boss, if that's what some ppl are worried about.

swelt
02-20-2010, 11:10 AM
Spec into SafeGuard and let the DK handle most of the Lich King tanking with you intervene:ing each Soul Reaper. It's kinda amazing that we finally find a use for this talent and it turns out to be totally overpowered for this encounter.
Surely intervening that much would lead to threat issues? 10% total threat reduction on each intervene.

Killed in 10 man using the strat I mentioned above. Worked for us, but as is clear from this thread, there are plenty of viable options.

Tals
02-24-2010, 05:32 AM
It's very possible to solo tank it as a warrior if that warrior uses 4pc t10, though I will note we had a disc priest. We did this because the warrior could shockwave the valk while tanking, and the feral druid when kitty and got infected wounds up and maimed. I'm sure that will seem backwards to some people, but I wanted to say it can and has been done by warriors.

Nildog
02-28-2010, 12:09 PM
Anti-magic shell works for Soul Reaper... Makes tanking him ridiculously easy, since you can AMS every other Soul Reaper and have CDs available for the rest, even without the 4pc.

agranyoch
03-02-2010, 03:09 AM
Surely intervening that much would lead to threat issues? 10% total threat reduction on each intervene.
There's plenty of target switching going on (1 or 1 and a half Raging Spirits at the start of P2 plus the Val'kyrs and two Ragings at the start of P3) that the threat didn't seem to be any issue whatsoever on our attempts. We had a double protection warrior setup and MT would Vigi a high DPS and I (as an offtank) would Intervene the MT when Soul Reaper got applied. As been mentioned, the cooldowns of Soul Reaper and Intervene match exactly and thus it's possible to have 30% mini Shield Wall on the MT on every single Soul Reaper - add 4pt10 on every other Soul Reaper and the ability is absolutely trivialized.

Another way I've read ppl have been using to counter his +100% haste is to do a taunt ping-pong from max range and have LK running between the tanks while he's hasted up.

drae
03-05-2010, 05:53 AM
Spec into SafeGuard and let the DK handle most of the Lich King tanking with you intervene:ing each Soul Reaper. It's kinda amazing that we finally find a use for this talent and it turns out to be totally overpowered for this encounter.

We started doing this last night, it's amazingly OP.

How to make it even EASIER on the OT:


Power Auras: Set a debuff aura for Soul Reaper, insure the focus box at the bottom is checked.
Set the MT as your focus.
Make an intervene macro:



#showtooltip Intervene
/cast [taget:focus] InterveneThis way you get a massive glowing picture on your screen when your tank has soul reaper, and you press one button to intervene him, without changing your current target.

Other advantages to this technique:


one tank to deal with spirits, and it's never the dude tanking LK.
Your free to shockwave / conc. blow the valkyrs, without worrying about moving LK.
Easier on the healer with no tank swap.


The only problem I have had: Raging Spirits turning and nuking the raid when I intervene the tank. MT threat is far from an issue.

Gnurken
03-05-2010, 06:01 AM
The only problem I have had: Raging Spirits turning and nuking the raid when I intervene the tank. MT threat is far from an issue.

In 10man we let the DK use a couple cooldowns (whatever they use I don't know the names of) until I was done with the Raging Spirits, then I started intervene. Was just too risky having those run after me nuking the raid.

25man we use 3 tanks so the 3rd one is having the last Raging spirit while I'm free to SaveGaurd the MT.

Dragaan
03-05-2010, 06:49 AM
Spec into SafeGuard and let the DK handle most of the Lich King tanking with you intervene:ing each Soul Reaper. It's kinda amazing that we finally find a use for this talent and it turns out to be totally overpowered for this encounter.

It's funny how tanks are just now realizing that safeguard can be useful... It's always been useful. I used to love using it on steelbreaker back when he hit like a truck on 25man heroic. It doesn't always have to be used on a tank tho. There are tons fights where the offtank can use safeguard as an extra cooldown for the other tank w/o having to worry about threat. It also doesn't have to be used on another tank. Think of all the situations this might come in handy on random raid members while your not currently tanking. While offtanking putricide as a warrior, you can safeguard the person who gaseous bloat is cast on to help the healers out. You can safeguard squishies while marrowgar is bonestorming on heroic. If someone misses a spore or two on festergut, you can safeguard them just before pungent blight hits (you can also safeguard the other tank on fester). On anub heroic 25man, you can intervene a pcold target just before another wave of adds comes. There are tons of situations where this can prove useful, just like any other dmg reduction cooldown. I know none of these are dire situations where someone's absolutely gonna die w/o a cooldown, but I'm just giving some random examples. This isn't the first time this ability has been useful. :p

I'm sure safeguard is pretty nice on lich king. Especially if one tank greatly outgears the other and you want the more geared tank on lich king fulltime, or if you are assigned to fulltime valkyr sunder/stun duty as a warrior. Personally, I find it much easier to just swap tanks for soul reaper.

Mikas
03-05-2010, 10:16 AM
roll paladin and you can solo tank him :) AD ->30% reduced dmg almost always

Belicia
03-05-2010, 11:38 AM
roll paladin and you can solo tank him :) AD ->30% reduced dmg almost always

Or use Divine Sacrifice or Hand of Sacrifice.

I really don't see what all the excitement is about Intervene/Safeguard. There are many ways to use a cooldown on someone.

Dragaan
03-05-2010, 12:23 PM
roll paladin and you can solo tank him :) AD ->30% reduced dmg almost always

AD doesn't reduce the entire attack by 30% if it drops you into AD range. It only reduces the part that goes below 35% (or 30%, w/e it is).

drae
03-05-2010, 02:06 PM
I prefer safeguard because of it's cooldown.

Rather then co-ordinate externals, I take care of all of them; it's much easier then trying to keep up a rotation of 2 or 3 players.

I used safeguard extensively on Faction Champions and Gormok (hardmodes). Previous to T9 content I found the 2 points were too hard to come by; as imp. revenge was too valuable. I feel it's become popular for lich king due to the 2 points becoming available and no-where IMBA to spend them.

Mikas
03-06-2010, 12:58 AM
AD doesn't reduce the entire attack by 30% if it drops you into AD range. It only reduces the part that goes below 35% (or 30%, w/e it is).


doesn't really matter paladin can solo tank him all fight without any external CD

Gnurken
03-09-2010, 06:38 AM
Just a little warning for 25man mode, I tried the Glyph of Intervene once, that was a mistake, the 2 hits I got killed me. Sure there was some infest damage too but it felt too risky using that glyph when healers are focused on one tank.
Will try it again in 10man later just to see, and coz I got 19 glyphs left :)

Mecer
03-21-2010, 07:10 PM
Anti-magic shell works for Soul Reaper... Makes tanking him ridiculously easy, since you can AMS every other Soul Reaper and have CDs available for the rest, even without the 4pc.

Can anyone else confirm this? I was trying this tonight and it did not appear to absorb the damage. IBF worked fine, but AMS didnt appear to help at all.

gacktt
03-22-2010, 11:18 PM
Once the next patch hits tommorow and the buff reaches 10% our DK tank won't even need intervene safeguards to solo tank him in 25, guess that makes 3/4 of the tanks able to solo tank him easy. course that's not stopping me from making the soul reapers even less of a threat with intervene.

Darksend
03-23-2010, 03:51 PM
1) no buff today just the patch (not that this was a surprise most of us do not expect the buff until the 30th)

2) AMS used to work but according to my offtank it no longer does

Kinetix
06-22-2010, 05:00 AM
Sorry for rezzing this thread but I'm unclear on Safeguard. If i Intervene the LK tank, do I have to be in melee range to take the hits from LK? Intervene only transfers one hit right? So should i taunt off the MT, or just go back to a Valkyr if its up. We havent spent much time in phase 2 so i'm probably missing something.

note: This thread was posted with 5/10% buff. So I dont even know if i have to do this anymore. LK tank only has 65k HP in 10man.

atcq
06-22-2010, 05:32 AM
Sorry for rezzing this thread but I'm unclear on Safeguard. If i Intervene the LK tank, do I have to be in melee range to take the hits from LK? Intervene only transfers one hit right? So should i taunt off the MT, or just go back to a Valkyr if its up. We havent spent much time in phase 2 so i'm probably missing something.

note: This thread was posted with 5/10% buff. So I dont even know if i have to do this anymore. LK tank only has 65k HP in 10man.


Intervene (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=3411) will put you in melee range of LK. As the tooltip states, you need to be within 8 to 25 yards of the target in order to intervene.

If you spec'd for it, intervening your tank will provide him with the Safeguard (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=46949) buff, which will reduce his damage taken for 6 seconds.

So every time your LK tank calls out "Soul Reaper", you intervene him, thus providing him with an external damage reduction cooldown. There's no need to taunt and switch with him. Once he's intervened, you can go back to Val'kyr stun duty.

Also, you can intervene across a defile without worry.

With the 20% buff, you probably don't need to Safeguard your tank. But it won't hurt either. :-)

Duvon
06-22-2010, 01:57 PM
Land intervene like this:

5 Soul Reaper application
4
3
2
1 Intervene
0 Soul Reaper Damage
-1 Haste on LK
..
-5 Haste ends on LK

Dragaan
06-22-2010, 05:54 PM
Also, you can intervene across a defile without worry.

You'd better be damn sure your intervene target is quite a few yards away from the edge of the defile if you're going to do this. Intervene makes you stop just short of your target, so if the tank is tanking near the edge of a defile for whatever reason (keeping LK in line with the valks or w/e), you can actually stop IN the defile. Be careful.

Martie
06-22-2010, 08:06 PM
doesn't really matter paladin can solo tank him all fight without any external CD
Yeah, but it's a little too RNG for my liking.