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Ciderhelm
02-03-2010, 08:04 AM
You can find a guide to the heroic version of this encounter here (http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?63390-Icecrown-Valithria-Dreamwalker-Hard)!

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http://www.tankspot.com/snowfall/donorbanner.jpg (http://www.tankspot.com/premium.php)


Hello and welcome to the TankSpot Icecrown Citadel Raid Guide! My name is Aliena and in this video I'll cover everything you need to know about the normal mode 25-man version of the Valithria Dreamwalker encounter.

Whoever said healers were merely raid support! This fight is all about us healers and for once, the tanks and dps build the support team. As soon as you enter her room, you can see Valithria lying in the middle of it, clearly hurt and bound by the archmages surrounding her. As healer, your task is to bring her health back to full while the tanks and DPS deal with the waves of adds that spawn during the encounter.

Their goal is to absolutely minimize raid damage to give the healers the most amount of time to actually heal the boss and hence, end the encounter quickly. The more raid damage is taken, the slower the encounter will be. Makes sense, right?

Valithria starts out at 50% health, which puts her at 18 million and leaves you with another 18 million to heal. A setup of two tanks, however little DPS you can get away with to get the job done and as many healers as possible is recommended. In our case, we just had 6 healers so the fight took a while.

There are five different types of adds that spawn that I'll list in order of importance. Blazing Skeletons, Suppressors, Risen Archmages, Blistering Zombies and Gluttonous Abomination.

Blazing Skeletons cast a raidwide AoE called Lay Waste and that's pretty much exactly what it does, not to mention it also damagtes Valithria, so these need to be killed ASAP.

Suppressors basically just run up to Valithria and channel a spell that makes her take 10% less healing per suppressor channeling. They have low health so they should be taken out quickly as long as no Blazing Skeleton is up.

Risen Archmages annoy the raid with mana-draining void zones, a 10k Frostbolt Volley AoE and Frost Pillars, but don't have any deadly AoE like the skeletons do. Still, they're high on the kill list to avoid additional raid damage.

Blistering Zombies cast Acid Burst which is a 10k AoE in a 15 yard area which also makes everyone that got hit by it take a small 20 second dot. They also greatly increase the damage your tanks take.

The Abominations have a lot of health but don't really do anything menacing at all but spawn a couple worms upon death so have your tank pick them up.

Position a DPS team on the east and west side that takes care of whatever spawns in an order similar to the one proposed above while your healers are free to spread out around the inner circle of the room. If executed correctly, raid damage should be low, giving healers a lot of time to spam heal Valithria.

Frequently, Valithria will summon about 10 Nightmare Portals in random locations around her inner circle - they will show up as little green seeds before becoming clickable - and upon clicking on one, you will be teleported to the Emerald Dream where you can freely float about the room to pick up Nightmare Clouds. When touching a Nightmare Cloud, it erupts, giving you a stack of Emerald Vigor, a buff that increases your healing and damage done by 10% as well as regenerates 200 mana every 3 seconds per stack.

The more clouds you pick up, the higher your stacks and the bigger your buff. Unless you're going for an achievement, only healers should be taking portals. You don't want all of your healers phased out at the same time though, so make sure to assign an order if this is a problem for you.

Portal assignments can be done different ways - you can assign your highest single target HPS classes to take every single one and stack up the buff while other people only take one if mana is low, or you can simply alternate so half your healers take the first set, the other half the second and go from there, or you can just have people take portals if mana is an issue. The most effective way is probably the first one, but this would take some math.

Either way, taking a portal will fill up the mana pool and give a nice healing buff. Abilities such as guardian spirit and lay on hands do work on Valithria and will provide a nice minor buff, so go ahead and use them whenever available.

As far as healing strategy behind this - you want to utilize your biggest, most efficient single target heals, which means paladins are going to love this fight. Druids cycle full hots then nourish and for priests I'd recommend - I didn't think I'd ever say this - a greater heal spec featuring divine fury, improved healing, serendipity and empowered healing. Whatever you're comfortable with is going to get the job done though, so until her heroic version is out, respeccing is not needed. Have fun and good luck!

Thank you for watching this movie. As always, feel free to ask questions or add suggestions either on YouTube or in the strategy thread on TankSpot.com. Also, TankSpot Donors can download all of these movies in High Definition directly from our servers -- so if you'd like to learn more about that, just click the second link in the movie information box!


Hi, I'm Lore from Tankspot. In this video, I'll be demonstrating the 10-man normal version of the Valithria Dreamwalker encounter.

This fight is all about role reversal. Dreamwalker, the large green dragon in the center of the room, is being assaulted by the Lich King's minions, and it's up to the raid to heal her to full health while also fighting off the constant stream of mobs coming in from the sides of the room. This means that your healers are tasked with spending as much time as possible focusing on Valithria. Meanwhile, DPS plays support -- the faster the adds die, the less attention the healers have to pay to anyone other than Dreamwalker.

Note that this guide is being shown from a DPS perspective, and although I will be explaining the healers' role in the fight to the best of my ability, healers might also want to watch our 25-man video to see the encounter from Aliena's perspective as a Priest.

To help speed things up, Dreamwalker will occasionally summon in Nightmare Portals. These begin as small green dots which activate after about 15 seconds, allowing access to the Dreamstate. Inside are several Dream Clouds that, when killed, apply a stacking buff called Emerald Vigor to everyone within 10 yards that gives a healthy amount of mana regen and also increases damage and healing done by 10% per stack. All but one healer should be ready to enter these portals as soon as they activate, with the other healer staying out to keep the raid alive. DPS can take portals if there's any extra, but it's not necessary.

Meanwhile, several types of adds will be spawning regularly from the sides of the room. The most dangerous of these are the Blazing Skeletons. Aside from a fairly harmless Fireball, these can channel a 12 second uninterruptible AOE called Lay Waste which hits everyone in the raid for around 4000 fire damage every 2 seconds. Although this can be healed through, it diverts healing away from Dreamwalker, and damages her as well, so these should be killed immediately.

Next on the priority list are the Suppressors. These spawn in small packs and run directly to Dreamwalker to begin channeling a stacking debuff on her that reduces the amount of healing she takes by 10% per stack. They have very little health, so they can and should be taken out quickly before moving on to other adds as long as no Blazing Skeletons are up.

The next add to focus on are the Risen Archmages. These have three abilities to be mindful of. The first is a Frostbolt Volley, which does around 8000 damage to everyone in the raid and slows them for a few seconds. This can be interrupted. They can also summon a Column of Frost, which places a small white circle on the ground beneath a random player's feet. After two seconds, anyone standing on the circle will take a small amount of damage and be launched into the air, resulting in a small amount of fall damage as well. Finally, they can summon Mana Voids, which are large purple void zones that burn large amounts of mana from anyone standing on them. Although they're not quite as dangerous as the Blazing Skeletons, Risen Archmages can cause quite a bit of chaos and raid damage if left alive for too long. It may be worth prioritizing them over the Suppressors if they're giving you too much trouble.

Next up are the Blistering Zombies. These are designed to kill your tanks. Every melee swing they land applies a debuff that deals a large amount of Nature damage over time and reduces armor by 10%. This can stack up to 5 times. In addition, when killed, they will explode, dealing a large amount of AOE nature damage to anyone within 10 yards and applying a small damage over time effect. Ranged should stay away from these when they're being killed. Tanks and melee will just have to be healed through it.

Finally, there's the Gluttonous Abominations. These have a lot of health but aren't a huge concern most of the time. Their only ability is a Gut Spray that hits anyone standing in a cone in front of them. This deals some damage over time and also increases Physical damage taken, but is a disease and can be dispelled. Just have the tank try to point them away from the raid, and cleanse anyone hit by the Gut Spray. These should be last on your priority list. However, once one is killed, it will spawn a large group of Rot Worms. Each Rot Worm can melee a tank for upwards of 3000 in 10 man, and up to 10 of them can spawn, so these need to be AOE'd down immediately once they spawn.

Note that nearly all of the damage the raid takes is either Fire, Frost, or Nature damage. Running Fire, Frost, and Nature resistance auras or totems will significantly reduce the amount of healing the raid needs, thereby freeing up more healing for Dreamwalker.

It's also worth noting that not all of the adds really need to be tanked. The Blazing Skeletons spend most of their time casting, and the Suppressors just focus on Dreamwalker. With enough DPS, the adds that do need to be tanked will generally die before or shortly after another one spawns, so we found that only one tank was really necessary.

Thanks for watching this video. As always, if you'd like more information on this or any other encounter, just head over to tankspot.com (http://tankspot.com/) and click the "Movies" link in the top navbar. If you're watching this on youtube, just follow the link in the movie details. Be sure to watch Aliena's 25man video guide as well to see the fight from a healer's perspective. Good luck!

Cupi
02-03-2010, 08:44 AM
No replys at all?

Nice video, seems like a really funny fight :)

//edit: Just realized it's quite early in the US :P

jack445
02-03-2010, 09:07 AM
Thanks for adding this :) Can't wait to see it from healer's perspective

Miisery
02-03-2010, 09:09 AM
Looks like fun! I can't wait to heal it! :D

Predakhan
02-03-2010, 09:19 AM
Lore, even though this will swell your already large affro, I really like your videos and explanations. While I appreciate everyone of tankspots people who make the videos, I find yours the best.

randomdrood
02-03-2010, 09:22 AM
I wonder if this is possible to zerg with 20 healers and 5 tanks. :p

Torturer
02-03-2010, 10:10 AM
seems like painless boss hehe ;)
ty for video :P

matalore
02-03-2010, 10:18 AM
as always, your videos are concise and informative, i look forward to running this :p

Fluxx
02-03-2010, 10:54 AM
Does Lay on Hands work on this boss ? if so some buffed pally tanks might crit over 70k heal on her right ?

Mr.Winkle
02-03-2010, 10:59 AM
Does Lay on Hands work on this boss ? if so some buffed pally tanks might crit over 70k heal on her right ?

The boss requires 6mil healing on 10man and 15mil on 25man i believe. A 1 off heal for 70k isn't going to do much.

Caedrun
02-03-2010, 11:26 AM
Probably a stupid question, but can Valithria be beaconed? Or vice/versa?

Joyden
02-03-2010, 11:36 AM
May i ask whar addon you use to show enemy bar's ?

Liquidska
02-03-2010, 12:06 PM
Probably a stupid question, but can Valithria be beaconed? Or vice/versa?


(7) You cannot cast beacon on VDW. However, you can cast beacon on a tank, and heal VDW.

Taken from Pre-Release guide (http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?62615-Valithria-Dreamwalker-Encounter).

Caedrun
02-03-2010, 12:08 PM
Taken from Pre-Release guide (http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?62615-Valithria-Dreamwalker-Encounter).

Thanks, I should have looked into it more.

marklar
02-03-2010, 12:13 PM
Does Lay on Hands work on this boss ? if so some buffed pally tanks might crit over 70k heal on her right ?

yes, it works.

another good video, lore - i hadn't thought about going 1 tank, but it makes a lot of sense as the aboms are the only mob that needs a real tank. did you fill the extra spot with a dps or a 4th healer?

Jamor
02-03-2010, 12:25 PM
We did a couple test pulls last night, we didn't beat it, as it was pretty late and well past our end time -- but our pally healer reported that Beacon does work on the dragon -- maybe it's only 25 man that it doesnt' work on?

Liquidska
02-03-2010, 12:33 PM
We did a couple test pulls last night, we didn't beat it, as it was pretty late and well past our end time -- but our pally healer reported that Beacon does work on the dragon -- maybe it's only 25 man that it doesnt' work on?

It could of been changed now that it's live, if this is the case and it works in that you can Beacon VDW and then heal some one else then the first thing that pops to mind is Nurturing Instinct. (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=33873)

Pally heals the feral druid, heals are 20% more, VDW gets 20% bigger heals. Doubt its worth in 10 mans, but in 25's if you got 2+ pallies it probally would be. It's the equivlent of them having Avenging Wrath up 24/7.

EDIT: This actually won't work. Beacon doesn't do over heal, so unless your druid is tanking in cat form it really won't make a difference.

fr0d0b0ls0n
02-03-2010, 12:35 PM
Probably a stupid question, but can Valithria be beaconed? Or vice/versa?

You can Beacon her in 10 man at least on live. I just killed her.

Jamor
02-03-2010, 12:39 PM
Liquid -- they changed beacon -- it does work with overhealing.

Spiritus
02-03-2010, 12:47 PM
EDIT: This actually won't work. Beacon doesn't do over heal, so unless your druid is tanking in cat form it really won't make a difference.

Beacon, as of 3.2, counts all raw healing (including overheal). The Nurturing Instinct idea is a neat one if you absolutely need the HPS increase on VDW. This fight, however, is a control fight, not an "HPS" race. Best case scenario is to have your holy paladin beacon VDW and heal tanks/raid (assuming this is confirmed on live for 25man).

Sweet idea, though! II would suggest all holy paladins use non-critical GCDs to bomb HLs on your kitties.

Trexokor
02-03-2010, 12:51 PM
Beacon doesn't transfer the original heal in its raw amount. It transfers the base heal amount before +% modifiers to the beacon target, and applies any of that target's +% or -% effects separately.

In laymens terms, your 20k HL crit that does say 23k on a kitty will still only do 20k on Valithria. So you're best off healing someone who needs the healing.

Liquidska
02-03-2010, 12:53 PM
So I was right... then I was wrong... then I was right again...

*waits for other shoe to drop*

Honestly I think it's a bit of a silly idea, probably not necessary but perhaps it will make a difference in hard mode.

Something to note however, is that Nurturing Instinct (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=33873) is *not* a standard talent choice for a feral DPS. It's very much a PvP talent, so if you do this then chances are you will have to your cat spec in to this.
(http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=33873)

Spiritus
02-03-2010, 12:57 PM
Beacon doesn't transfer the original heal in its raw amount. It transfers the base heal amount before +% modifiers to the beacon target, and applies any of that target's +% or -% effects separately.


Learn something new everyday. /themoreyouknowrainbow

Fayre
02-03-2010, 04:57 PM
I found this quite a challenge to single tank on 10 man. As a warrior with Warbringer, I still found myself caught out on occasion. I suspect it's 'meant' to be dual tanked.

I prioritised tanking the Abominations, the Blistering Zombies and the Rot Worms. The Archmages seemed to die fairly fast with DPS on them but they still needed to be pulled off our raid healer.

Is there a mechanic whereby the adds speed up over time or perhaps at set points (I noticed she 'yells' at 75%)? We had significant issues in the later half of the fight with adds stacking up over time that really made the fight more difficult. It may be that the healers weren't quite 'getting' the Portal mechanics yet - but it felt tonight like there's an 'enrage' mechanic at work.

Teni
02-03-2010, 05:17 PM
Just a little note to Aleana. The "buffet" effect is not pronounced "boofay" like an all-you-can-eat meal. It's "buff-ett" (rhymes with "bucket"), like "buffeting winds." I kept having visions of Vegas buffets at the Bellagio every time you said that. lol. Cheers!

pyxio
02-03-2010, 08:25 PM
I, thanks for the guide.
Does Amplify Magic work on live realm please (10/25) ?

truthiness
02-03-2010, 08:49 PM
Would be nice to have a quick link to what Ciderhelm suggested.
Maybe its there and im dumb

Aliena
02-03-2010, 09:42 PM
It was Lore that did and it's currently rendering!

truthiness
02-03-2010, 10:11 PM
Thanks Aliena, I lubs you Cider, Spiritus, Lore et all.

You guys are like dbm x grid to the sexymap power

slats21
02-03-2010, 11:46 PM
@ teni what makes more sense the boss putting a debuff on raid increasing damage taken in relation to strong winds usually referred to when dealing with turbulence or the ""boofay"" meaning involving feasting on things :p

Mookey
02-04-2010, 02:23 AM
Defeated this encounter in 25 last night.
• You can use all buffs on her, even vigilance. Not sure if all works, but her unit frame shows that buffs, buffing in front of her with greater blessings and raid buffs gives her buffs aswel.
• Skeletons casts 2 (maybe sometimes 3 not sure yet if it's only 2 always) fireballs, then they start to spam lay waste without stopping. No need to be tanked, burn them as they show up.
• Suppressors, well when we started to semi-ignore these we actually improved a lot in the fight. Yes they do worst possible debuff to this fight, but doesn't need to be tanked and do no harm to players. We had few times people "finishing" suppressors and some people dying from Skelies, so we started to ignore Suppressors with order to DPS - "whenever you dont have what to do, kill some suppressors"
• Zombies are not good idea to be tanked. Mark them and let hunter kite (BoF him if mage is up with frostbolts), make melee dps them to 50% and let range finish them.
• Abominations - there are 2 spots (one on each side) between 2 spawning points - set your tank with back towards wall and you are fine with tanking them there... noone will ever get hit with his frontal cone. About worms - stop all aoe on last 2-3% of abomination, wait for your tank to establish aggro first, we lost several trigger happy retri paladins to worms on first attempts.
• Mages are most tricky part, because you cannot really decide if they are that big threat or not, we've set them in group with suppressors e.g. kill them when you dont have what to do.

Our kill order: Skelies (Full priority) > Zombie (marked with raid icon, one hunter on each side was waiting to kite, melee helping only up to 50%) > Suppressors > Mages (Not interrupting them if there is no tank in vicinity, or they would melee if not casting) > Abominations (assigned tank is tanking them so whenever dps have free time they would burn these, stoping aoe on last few %)

I can confirm that 7 min marker on 25 man have something with increased spawns, it was still manageable but looked like soft enrage. We wiped twice on 7:30+ overwhelmed, but managed kill @ 6:45
2 tanks
9 melee
8 ranged
6 healers

Exiledknight
02-04-2010, 04:31 AM
I found this quite a challenge to single tank on 10 man. As a warrior with Warbringer, I still found myself caught out on occasion. I suspect it's 'meant' to be dual tanked.

I prioritised tanking the Abominations, the Blistering Zombies and the Rot Worms. The Archmages seemed to die fairly fast with DPS on them but they still needed to be pulled off our raid healer.

Is there a mechanic whereby the adds speed up over time or perhaps at set points (I noticed she 'yells' at 75%)? We had significant issues in the later half of the fight with adds stacking up over time that really made the fight more difficult. It may be that the healers weren't quite 'getting' the Portal mechanics yet - but it felt tonight like there's an 'enrage' mechanic at work.


This can be single tanked on 10 man, however it is pretty challenging at the end of the fight, where you will spamming all your taunts and ranged aggro grabbing abilities. It also helped to have your healers in a central location where they alwasy returned when they had a chance, most of the time they drew the adds to them, which buys you extra time if they are zombies or abominations. Having a hunter to MD/grab aggro feign helps as well.

As far as the LoH mechanic, if you are going to do this make sure GS is on her if you have it, I landed a 117k crit in 10 man, while not majorly significant considering we had 2 dps D/C and finished the fight as we were getting killed off, it is a perfect example of it may be a small amount but it potentially saved the "kill" versus having to do it all over again.

leito
02-04-2010, 05:29 AM
great video love tank spot been watching nice the start but this is my first comment was wonder about the (what seems like a focus fram) under the mini map can anyone tell me what addon or setting inside an addon it its thanks very much =)

Blacksen
02-04-2010, 07:06 AM
Both of these guides miss the essential point of the intended strategy that enables you to complete the encounter in ~4 minutes on the 10man or ~5 minutes on the 25man.

You should have 2 healers (ideally 2 paladins, but any healing class will do) that always take the portals. This enables them to keep their stack to continue stacking. Practically, this might seem like a massive waste of time, as these healers will spend more time in the portals than actually healing. Mathematically though, it makes sense. The first stack that you get essentially lasts 5 minutes because you're always refreshing the stack before it expires.

Also, you should mention that you should WAIT to get the last orb till ~5 seconds before the dream ends. This maximizes the time that you have the buff outside the dream. A common mistake in our early attempts was healers would go in, get all the orbs, and just sit there doing nothing for 20 seconds, ticking the buff away for over half its duration.

As soon as your 2 healers get 30-40 stacks, wait until they get out of the dream and pop heroism / guardian spirit / everything. In our kill, this brought the dragon from 80% to full in about 20 seconds.

Aliena
02-04-2010, 10:22 AM
Both of these guides miss the essential point of the intended strategy that enables you to complete the encounter in ~4 minutes on the 10man or ~5 minutes on the 25man.

You should have 2 healers (ideally 2 paladins, but any healing class will do) that always take the portals. This enables them to keep their stack to continue stacking. Practically, this might seem like a massive waste of time, as these healers will spend more time in the portals than actually healing. Mathematically though, it makes sense. The first stack that you get essentially lasts 5 minutes because you're always refreshing the stack before it expires.

Also, you should mention that you should WAIT to get the last orb till ~5 seconds before the dream ends. This maximizes the time that you have the buff outside the dream. A common mistake in our early attempts was healers would go in, get all the orbs, and just sit there doing nothing for 20 seconds, ticking the buff away for over half its duration.

As soon as your 2 healers get 30-40 stacks, wait until they get out of the dream and pop heroism / guardian spirit / everything. In our kill, this brought the dragon from 80% to full in about 20 seconds.

Portal assignments can be done different ways - you can assign your highest single target HPS classes to take every single one and stack up the buff while other people only take one if mana is low, or you can simply alternate so half your healers take the first set, the other half the second and go from there, or you can just have people take portals if mana is an issue. The most effective way is probably the first one, but this would take some math.

Reading helps! It seemed to yield better results in our alt run, but I'd rather wait for some mathy calculations out before advertising something as a definite strategy.

Trexokor
02-04-2010, 10:28 AM
Both of these guides miss the essential point of the intended strategy that enables you to complete the encounter in ~4 minutes on the 10man or ~5 minutes on the 25man.

You should have 2 healers (ideally 2 paladins, but any healing class will do) that always take the portals. This enables them to keep their stack to continue stacking. Practically, this might seem like a massive waste of time, as these healers will spend more time in the portals than actually healing. Mathematically though, it makes sense. The first stack that you get essentially lasts 5 minutes because you're always refreshing the stack before it expires.

Also, you should mention that you should WAIT to get the last orb till ~5 seconds before the dream ends. This maximizes the time that you have the buff outside the dream. A common mistake in our early attempts was healers would go in, get all the orbs, and just sit there doing nothing for 20 seconds, ticking the buff away for over half its duration.

As soon as your 2 healers get 30-40 stacks, wait until they get out of the dream and pop heroism / guardian spirit / everything. In our kill, this brought the dragon from 80% to full in about 20 seconds.

We had two people going in each round of portals in 10 man, myself in every single portal and the raid healers alternating (due to mana issues). There were far too many orbs for us to collect all of them. I was able to get 4-7 per round typically. I just got them as quickly as I could, making extra sure to get as many as I could when the dream state was going to expire (to allow maximum time in a new portal to get a new one).

The orbs can be a little finicky since they are moving and flying around in a 3D plane is harder than 2D. After learning it a little, it's not so difficult.

If you have any paladins in the raid with tier 10 2 piece, have them call for Heroism when they get a good number of stacks and Avenging Wrath and Divine Illumination are both up. With the healing bonuses and heroism, it's a very big jump in healing.

We finished the encounter in about 6 minutes with only me rolling the stack. Ended up with 22.7k HPS at the end. That works out to 8mil or so, so I think I ended up doing the entire thing heal-wise. It's fun to pop off 300k Holy Lights on your raid with 30k glyph bombs and Beacon on Valithria, with buffs up. <_<


Portal assignments can be done different ways - you can assign your highest single target HPS classes to take every single one and stack up the buff while other people only take one if mana is low, or you can simply alternate so half your healers take the first set, the other half the second and go from there, or you can just have people take portals if mana is an issue. The most effective way is probably the first one, but this would take some math.

Reading helps! It seemed to yield better results in our alt run, but I'd rather wait for some mathy calculations out before advertising something as a definite strategy.

It shouldn't really require any math to figure out, honestly. With 10 stacks of the buff, you're doubling your healing done. You have about the same amount of time in and out of the portals if you're taking every single one, so 10 stacks is the break point between staying out for a given period and healing the whole time, or going in and out and healing while out. It's very easy to get up to 10 stacks not so far into the fight. Alternating healers is a good way to make sure your raid healers aren't running out of mana though.

Glimmerglam
02-04-2010, 11:37 AM
Our guild succeeded last night on this fights after a couple of attempts getting the feel for the fight. 2 holy paly, 2 resto druid, 2 holy priest using Guardian Spirit spec and glyph. Something we noticed and wonder if others have had similar problems:

Upon pull I opened with GS to amplify Healing teams initial heal spam before raid started to take much damage. We had a rotation for Nightmare Portals sending both paladins in each spawn and rotating priest/druid team *one healer for each side and to continue spam on dragon* Upon exit when we attempted to chain GS we noticed that the second GS was uncastable and seemed that other than the inital pull GS was unusable upon Valithria other than upon portal exit phase. How we ended up handling this was whichever priest went into the portal, the other upon exiting would use GS allowing the buffed priest to immediatly start spamming using their buff to their fullest. Later in the fight when dps was being overwhelmed the buffed priest would use Hymn to generate random heals which some did indeed heal Valithria.

Normally we run with only one holy priest but for this fight we figured that chaining GS would be VERY effective... Did anyone else try this strat, and if so encountered the same problem?

Another thing of passing note, when clicking on the green clouds, seemed that you had to be practically on top of it when it burst or you didnt get the buff.


On a side note: Aliena, the two guilds I post strats and insite for send their appreciation in particular to you :D
Ciderhelm, Spiritus, and Lore, and the community at Tankspot.com: <Envy> and <World Wide Pain> adore you and appreciate all the work you guys do. Without all the gems of info and wonderful vids I would be quickly overwhelmed when tells start rolling in...

Proudfaith
02-05-2010, 08:47 AM
As a disc priest by trade i can only see myself being total fail sauce for this encounter as i'm MT healer and usually the last to fall. The best i can see is to be that lone healer holding the fort while others take the portals. Being disc by trade i don't see a reason to respec holy (to which i'm completely not geared for holy) just for a single encounter. My single target buffs only only benificial to myself and my pain suppression dropping it on him/her to reduce the amount of damage being knocked back off due to raid damage, and power infusion on a healer stomping out of the portals stacked full of debuff ready to heal. So agan i can only see my roll as waving to the other healers as they take potals.

Xlight
02-06-2010, 04:46 AM
Thanks once again for the great guides Aliena and Lore :D

Relating to the following:


You should have 2 healers (ideally 2 paladins, but any healing class will do) that always take the portals. This enables them to keep their stack to continue stacking. Practically, this might seem like a massive waste of time, as these healers will spend more time in the portals than actually healing. Mathematically though, it makes sense. The first stack that you get essentially lasts 5 minutes because you're always refreshing the stack before it expires.

Also, you should mention that you should WAIT to get the last orb till ~5 seconds before the dream ends. This maximizes the time that you have the buff outside the dream. A common mistake in our early attempts was healers would go in, get all the orbs, and just sit there doing nothing for 20 seconds, ticking the buff away for over half its duration.

I have a couple of questions about the timing of taking the portals and getting buffed inside. We had our 10 man run last night and very fun boss. On our successful attempt out holy pally who was taking every portal had 25 stacks of emerald vigor at the end. So obviously he had managed to keep his buff from one portal phase to the next at least 2 or 3 times before that. With everything going on and being happy with the success we didn't really confirm durations and timings of portals/buffs. Wowwiki states that emerald vigor has a 35 second duration. So in order to keep stacking the buff I am assuming you need to receive your previous stack preferably just before you are transported out of the emerald dream and get in pretty quick on the following portal to grab the next buff. Is this 35 second duration right? Is there much margin for error in trying to refresh your buff? In the pre release guide Spiritus said there was very little margin of error, but I'm just wondering with the live version how it is. For our 25 man it would be nice to be able to say to our healers ways of improving their chances of build the stacks of the buff up high.

Spiritus
02-06-2010, 12:03 PM
You must time your last cloud to pop right before the end of your 15sec jaunt into the dreamstate.

From my experience on this fight, if you leave the dreamstate with 30sec left on EV, then you will have approx 5sec after clicking the next portal to refresh your stack. Therefore, on a perfectly executed, zero lag rotation, you can have up to 10sec to refresh. Most folks, however, will have between 5-7seconds.

I highly suggest only 4 healers to take the portal on 25man and have each take a 90deg wedge of the circle. That way you don't have to worry about someone not refreshing their stack due to being .5sec behind another healer. The clouds will respawn once while your inside the portal, so just eating the orbs in your fourth of the room will lead to plenty of stacks.

If any of your healers are having lag issues, then keep them on the raid. Graphical lag + this mechanic = dropped stacks.

Dapeanut88
02-07-2010, 03:44 PM
My guild did this on tuesday. This was our 25 man strategy.
We had 3 Holy paladins (Including myself), 2 trees, a resto shaman, and a discipline priest.
3 Tanks
and a balanced melee/ranged ratio

The paladins put beacon of light on Valithria and spammed holy lights/holy shocks (given you have the ilvl264 libram) on a warlock with Demon Armor on.
The dps put attack target priority as follows. Fire mages > Supressors > Zombies > Worms > Arch mages (the frost ones) > Abominations.
The 3 holy paladins and the resto shaman never missed portals and always kept their stacks up.
Towards the end where the raid was taking more damage, the resto shaman was left out of the portals and helped with the trees and priest with healing.

Portal guide:
It is best to mark the 4 portal takers with a raid icon that DBM or any other raid helper addon uses. Start off with all your portal takers close by so they know
where to meet when they enter portals. Even if all portal takers are spread out the second you enter a portal fly up and pop your first green orb to keep your
current stack or start your first. Then, meet up with your group of 4 and stick together while popping the orbs going in a circle (Clockwise or Counter-Clockwise).
Make sure to call out which portals they are going to take because only one person can use a single portal at a time. Keep this up throughout the fight and you will
be golden.

Palymcbeal
<Clockwork> on Aegwynn US PvP

Serra
02-09-2010, 01:12 PM
I was doing this fight on 10 man as a Holy Priest, and I am having a bit of difficulty with the mechanics. My group healing group consists of a Resto Shaman, Holy Paladin, and myself. I noticed that in the 25 man, Aliena did not enter every portal, but in the 10 man it was advised. So, the lead asked the Pally and myself to enter every portal. We have a set rotation around the boss so we don't pick up each other's puff balls, however I can never seem to time the stacks right to keep them before entering the portal again. I also am having trouble hitting the puffs at times. I was wondering if what would be a good guide to go off of for this. Sorry if this seems like a total newbie issue, but I can't seem to figure out how to keep up my stacks.

eturat
02-09-2010, 01:37 PM
This fight was a lot of fun to do. Definitely one of the easier fights in ICC though if you have good healers.

Draakus28
02-09-2010, 08:24 PM
I've only done it on 10 man so far, but amplify magic on dreamwalker worked very well for us.

eox03y
02-10-2010, 05:37 PM
I'm totally newbie in wow.
Can anybody inform me exact lists of addons shown by second movie? (not the first one)

I'm sick and tired of original ui frames and have not enough informations about addons.
I can only figure out omen and recount..lol

Plz show me your mercy to challenging newbie!!

Kazeyonoma
02-10-2010, 05:49 PM
I'm totally newbie in wow.
Can anybody inform me exact lists of addons shown by second movie? (not the first one)

I'm sick and tired of original ui frames and have not enough informations about addons.
I can only figure out omen and recount..lol

Plz show me your mercy to challenging newbie!!

All of our author's UI compilations can be found: http://www.tankspot.com/forumdisplay.php?211-UI-Compilations

Aluminijum
02-11-2010, 04:36 AM
Taken from Pre-Release guide (http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?62615-Valithria-Dreamwalker-Encounter).

Actually u can beacon VDW on the live system. :)

Petninja
02-14-2010, 01:33 PM
EDIT: This actually won't work. Beacon doesn't do over heal, so unless your druid is tanking in cat form it really won't make a difference.

Beacon will do overhealing since like naxx :P.

Dapeanut88
02-15-2010, 12:42 AM
Serra,

Read my portal guide above.

To not lose your stacks, the first thing you should do when you enter a portal is to pop one of the green orbs and then group up with your portal partners.

invictius
02-15-2010, 11:35 AM
Hello everybody. I've done a good amount of reading on this fight and have a simple lineup question for 10m.

We currently 3 heal ICC with a Holy Paladin, Holy Priest & Resto Shaman. Is this sufficient for VDW 10 or should we pickup a 4th healer, possibly in place of a tank?

luv2tank
02-15-2010, 11:57 AM
@Invictius-yes you can 3 heal it on 10man-fight might be a little longer but well controlled. Just have one or two ppl hitting the portals consistently enough to replen their mana. In one of my alt runs on my pally i went heals and we 4 healed/1 tanked the encounter and it was over really fast.

In 25-we ran 2 holy priests-2 holy paladins-2 druids-1 shaman. We found the seventh healer could help out incase there was one side overloaded w/ adds and the tank needed some extra heals. After multiple wipes this seemed to work best for our guild, however it may be better whichever way you chose to heal it. We tank the adds in between the 2 gates on opposite sides, nuke what we can and focus down the skeles. Best thing is to make sure your melee gets away from the blistering zombies prior to death to avoid as much raid damage as possible.

invictius
02-15-2010, 03:44 PM
@Invictius-yes you can 3 heal it on 10man-fight might be a little longer but well controlled. Just have one or two ppl hitting the portals consistently enough to replen their mana. In one of my alt runs on my pally i went heals and we 4 healed/1 tanked the encounter and it was over really fast.




Thank you!

Sinister Knight
02-16-2010, 12:15 AM
Would one of the lovely TankSpot people confirm for me that when a person pops one of the clouds in the Dream world, anyone within a certain range of it gets the stack (like 8 yds or some such)? Other strats I've seen say to have at least 1-2 heavy burst dps go into the portal as well to get the rolling stack of the buff, which I imagine would help immensely after their 2nd trip in on dealing with increasing add waves.

Spiritus
02-17-2010, 01:31 AM
Its a 10 yard radius on the clouds for the application of Emerald Vigor. I would suggest heavily against DPS entering the portal. The best way to avoid adds building up is to get VDW healed faster. I recommend sending in 4 healers to continue building rolling stacks of the buff, with each healer taking a 1/4 wedge of the portal area. This reduces the chance of stacks falling off. If your DPS is disciplined in target switching, you should have no problem healing the tanks/raid with 3 dedicated healers. So that's 4 portal healers and 3 tank/raid healers. In order of best classes for portals (weighing single target raw-HPS vs. raid healing capacity), I would say Paladin>Shaman>Druid>Hpriest>Dpriest. Hope that helps!

Khameelyon
02-18-2010, 10:31 AM
Okay. I'll readily admit this may be an enormous noob question, but here we go.

How do you actually get the orbs in the Dream to pop? I just spammed Holy Nova with my Priest last week, but I'm taking my Resto Druid in tonight. They didn't seem targetable last week, so I'm not sure if you just stand in it for a couple seconds or what. Thanks.

Spiritus
02-18-2010, 05:19 PM
Its proximity. You have to be very close to a cloud to pop it, and yes, it sometimes takes a second or two.

Otomo
02-19-2010, 02:38 AM
We just had our first serious attempts in our 10 man tonight, and the only struggle I had was hitting the freaking orbs in dreamstate. Any suggestions?

Satyra
02-19-2010, 04:10 PM
So my guild had our first attempt on this on 10 man last night. Got her up to 11.4 mil as most... "rippin my hair".

Our setup was 3 healers, 2 tanks and rest dps.

We started with having 1 tank to the left and 1 to the right fairly close to the middle so they were in line of the healers.

We had 2 of our healers (a druid and a priest) entering the portals to stack the buff, and 1 raidhealer (me as a shaman) for healing the raid.

Everything worked fine, even though the raid damage was kinda high at some points and I really had to give it all I got as a lonely raid healer. I had to enter the portal once to regain some mana and stack up some buffs, but more than that our other 2 healers could spam buffs to nuke the healing.

Though the worst part that really annoyed the crap out of me was the stacking "spit-like thing" lol (visable on gird as a grey spit which are stacking rapidly)
I think It's the spell from the Blistering zombies. When it got applied to both tanks and stacking fast, their hp just droped like no tommorow and I had to spam heal them and even macro panic heal them to keep them up. After 11 mi healed health and as a lonely raid healer and with these stacks just nuking the hell of my tanks, It was a hell for me to keep em up.

I don't know if they should take this kind of dmg at 5 stacks but they rly lost half the hp in a sec or so... and that along with frost volleys and blazing skeletons were just totally sick to heal by yourself.

I don't know if we are doing anything wrong, or if I just should be able to heal this kind of amount up for myself. But that buff is the most annoying thing I have ever seen tbh. Healing the whole raid while that debuff ticks on both tanks like no tommorow is just a nightmare.

At the last try we decided to try nukin hero and have 1 of the other healers aid me with healing the raid (when her hp reached 11 million), and we got her up to 11.5 mil as best. Then our raid time was over.

I just want to hear what other raid healers on this event has to say about this stacking debuff on the tanks, is it really that annoying or is it something I easily should be able to handle?

I know we will get her up soon but It's just pure chaos for me as a raid healer, and I'm really nuking everything I got to keep the raid and tank up, and I'm doing it fairly ok until we are starting to get upto 11 mil hp healed.

Anyway, It's a really funny fight but the stacking debuff on the tanks is driving me mad, any suggestions? x)

Teni
02-22-2010, 11:07 AM
How do you actually get the orbs in the Dream to pop? I just spammed Holy Nova with my Priest last week, but I'm taking my Resto Druid in tonight. They didn't seem targetable last week, so I'm not sure if you just stand in it for a couple seconds or what. Thanks.

You don't have to hit them. Just run through them; it's very similar to the light/dark orbs from the Twin Valks fight in ToC. As a Disc priest, I usually stay outside for our 25-mans (lots and lots of shields and mass dispels when necessary, etc.) but I get to try it on the 10-man version. I'm still very new to it, but the trick is to hit your spacebar as soon as you portal in so you can go up and grab an orb immediately. Once you get good enough to have over 20 stacks or so and keep it on you throughout the encounter, you will be putting out some amazing HPS numbers.

One trick, if you see big green gaseous clouds instead of the orbs when you zone in: Turn your video's Particle Density setting down to as low as it'll go for this encounter. It'll remove the excess green gas that surrounds the orbs, so you can target the orbs with more precision.

Yasriia
02-23-2010, 11:10 AM
We use for our 10 man run a resto druid and a disc priest. The druid is for group heal and the disc for MT healing, everythings allright in normal fights. But in this fight I'm not quite sure how to assign the healers. Tomorrow is our first run on Valithria and I don't know which healer should go through the portals respectively which one should heal Valithria. Any suggestions? Or should we look out in the worst case for a third healer?

Spiritus
02-23-2010, 05:28 PM
You should really aim for a third healer for this fight, hopefully someone in your raid has an offspec (paladin or shaman preferred). Keep your disc priest on the raid. If (s)he has a holy offspec, it might be beneficial for him/her to switch for glyphed GS.

KnThrak
02-24-2010, 01:14 AM
We had our first 25man try at her yesterday, and had serious issues with the orbs lagging noticeably - they didn't in 10man.

But I noticed they have an AE radius. I remember reading about that for 10man too but our attempts to get the AE to work there failed so we concluded they did not have an AE - at least in the 10man version.
Does anyone know more about that? Got the AE to work in the 10man?

KnThrak
02-24-2010, 01:15 AM
We had our first 25man try at her yesterday, and had serious issues with the orbs lagging noticeably - they didn't in 10man.

But I noticed they have an AE radius. I remember reading about that for 10man too but our attempts to get the AE to work there failed so we concluded they did not have an AE - at least in the 10man version.
Does anyone know more about that? Got the AE to work in the 10man?

KnThrak
02-24-2010, 01:41 AM
Hello everybody. I've done a good amount of reading on this fight and have a simple lineup question for 10m.

We currently 3 heal ICC with a Holy Paladin, Holy Priest & Resto Shaman. Is this sufficient for VDW 10 or should we pickup a 4th healer, possibly in place of a tank?

We 3-healed her, and there's two ways you can handle this:
One is to let two people take the portal every time, and leave one to heal the raid. This can (and will, most likely) get messy when some bad spawns syncronize with the portals opening and one healer is left alone to heal everyone. This worked for us but it needs a very good healer to stay outside and needs very good support from everyone else with timers / interrupts / DPS-focus when bad stuff happens.
The other is to let 1 take every portal, and let one take as many portals as possible. This is based on the observation that should I not drop my stack ever (Resto Shammy), I can heal her up alone before the timer runs out. <3 AA double-dipping on the healing buff. Paladins could potentially do this in even better since Beacon double-dips the same way and is 100% at base, not 30% like AA is. If you do this the idea is that the two healers staying outside try to spam Valithria every free waking second and one of them takes a portal if mana demands. Your Valithria healer takes every portal and casts no healing on the raid unless either absolutely necessary, or incidental.

In both setups try to produce a burst phase at the end where you ignore hte next portal, Heroism + Guardian Spirit (or at least either of them) and then heal her up to full before your stack expires - or right after.

I also read on wowhead that she has an invisible debuff to immunize her to the +healing of Guardian Spirit for 60 seconds after it is applied to her, can anyone comment on this? It'd make sense to make GS-chaining less powerful, but I couldn't verify this as we do not usually have 2+ Holy Priests.

Satyra
02-27-2010, 06:03 PM
We got her up today! Smooth and easy fight! We had the following setup -> 2 tanks (pally and druid), 3 healers (Holy priest, Resto druid and Resto shaman (me), and 5 dps. We had the priest and druid to take the portals and me as a alone raid healer. It's kinda insane to be the lonely raid healers at some times, but if you have a resto druid as in this case you can always communicate with him to put up HotS on the tanks to prevent the zombie debuff to eat your tanks hp. We used this strategy and it spared my mana and spam healing alot. After that we had a clean and easy win.
We made our first attempts on Syndragosa last night aswell. Got her down to 15% and we have control over phase 1 and 2 flawlessly. Think we will get her down soon. Dreamwalker is such an awesome fight as a healer though, gotta love it :)

~Sat

Glimmerglam
03-01-2010, 04:11 AM
I also read on wowhead that she has an invisible debuff to immunize her to the +healing of Guardian Spirit for 60 seconds after it is applied to her, can anyone comment on this? It'd make sense to make GS-chaining less powerful, but I couldn't verify this as we do not usually have 2+ Holy Priests.

We usually run 2 holy paly, 2 resto druids, resto shaman, disc priest. When there is no resto shaman we bring in a holy priest to assist with raid or just five heal. Doesn't make or break us to take 6 heals. For this fight for two weeks on 25man as the disc priest I switched to my main spec of holy and we brought in a second holy priest for chaining GS. What we discovered that first week and confirmed the second week that it is true, you cannot chain GS. So really, there is no reason to bring two holy priests to this fight if they are glyphed for the 60 second refresh on GS. Like the tuna ad says "sorry charlie", only room for one healing priest in this raid...

Ventfou
03-15-2010, 08:52 PM
As a 10 man stric guild it's not easy to always have the right setting in raid.

Well my question is should we set dps to some target ? for exemple we always have 2 mages should they focus first on skelton(lay wast) the supressor with aoe and worm the help the hunter that kite the little abome(look like ick in PoS) and then have the two melee dps (presuming one tank only) dps mage and abom and interuping volley. Cuz the abom and mage are prety much the only that need tank except if hunter play huntard.

Is this sounding like a good plan or it's juste to much organise? Cuz i'm a druid healer and i prety much go in portal. Normaly i have yes over everting( since i'm the raid leader) but thise fight hot nourish play pac man hot nourish etc.

oh when do they gona make a drum of BL/H god it's not always easy to get a shamy in 10 man :p

Bigdogcc
03-29-2010, 09:24 AM
OK I am a ret/prot pally who is the 2nd tank for our 10 man group. I normally switch to dps and we single tank this encounter. When we have a holy pally this fight seems easy but lately our holy pally has been away so we have been asking a dps to switch to a healing spec in order to 3 heal it. I was wondering since mana is not an issue in this fight and if you are hitting every portal that if it was possible to heal the fight as ret in healing gear.
As ret I toss off heals when I have wings popped and I do 20K+ hl crits and with Sheath of light (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=53503) I do a good chunk of healing till mana is low.

I was thinking that I wouldn't have the through put of a holy pally with beacon but I could do some serious healing without having to repec holy for one fight. My gear is 251/245 level so its not a gear issue its mainly a question if the spec can accomplish the task? I would switch a glyph for the fight. Anyone have any thoughts.

PS I know respecing isn't that big of deal but it waste time and I have to reset up bars. So I am trying to avoid it.

bucksdude7
04-01-2010, 11:24 PM
I have never attempted this fight, but I believe my guild is going for it this week. I am a resto druid, From what i understand I just take portal and fly to get orbs correct?

Maybe could somebody go into depth about what happens when you hit portals..

Spiritus
04-02-2010, 11:16 AM
I have never attempted this fight, but I believe my guild is going for it this week. I am a resto druid, From what i understand I just take portal and fly to get orbs correct?

Maybe could somebody go into depth about what happens when you hit portals..

10 or 25man?
What other healers do you raid with?

bucksdude7
04-02-2010, 02:00 PM
10 or 25man?
What other healers do you raid with?

10 Man a Holy priest and Holy Pally

Spiritus
04-02-2010, 04:14 PM
Assuming the holy paladin and you are taking the portals:

(1) Make sure you designate either N/S or E/W as the area where you collect orbs. It is important that you make sure you pop your last orb just before you drop out of the dreamstate and having 1/2 of the room where you know you will be the only one popping orbs will almost ensure this to happen.
(2) Moving in the dreamstate can cause you to loose your depth perception, thinking you are right ontop of an orb when you are not. Also, orbs sometimes have a second or two lag before they pop. Just make sure to move onto the next only after you are certain you have received the buff. [Note: Orbs pop by proximity and explode in a 10yd radius.]
(3) With the changes to the duration of the buff, it is much easier to keep up your stacks, even if you don't perfectly time your last orb. Even so, it is good practice to do.

Other than that, just have your holy priest pop GS on VDW whenever it is up and you have just exited the dreamstate. If you have a shaman, pop hero/bl after a healthy number of stacks to finish off the encounter.

irishtheice
04-03-2010, 04:44 PM
Hi all frist time post. Now on dreamwalker would a mage thoughing amplify magic on dreamwalker help to heal her faster.

Elwindace
04-06-2010, 11:58 AM
Will be trying this for the first time on 10man. our healer set up is, 2 shamans (1 being me) and a priest (i think shes disc). I know not the best healer set up but its what we have to work with. Trying to think if it would be better to spam healing wave the entire time on the boss or lesser healing wave and use healing wave after Riptide.

CatabriOnEarthen
04-07-2010, 07:38 AM
Hi all frist time post. Now on dreamwalker would a mage thoughing amplify magic on dreamwalker help to heal her faster.

That's what we did. And it worked on our kill.

Quinafoi
04-07-2010, 08:26 AM
Will be trying this for the first time on 10man. our healer set up is, 2 shamans (1 being me) and a priest (i think shes disc). I know not the best healer set up but its what we have to work with. Trying to think if it would be better to spam healing wave the entire time on the boss or lesser healing wave and use healing wave after Riptide.

Healing Wave spam.
Riptide and other instants can be used while you are moving to get to portals or right before you click the portal because you can finish your cast when the portal appears and hit the instant cast as you're taking the portal.

Keep in mind if you're healing the boss on this encounter you have no concern for mana because Emerald Vigor from the Dream State will regenerate mana faster than you can consume it. This isn't a normal healing mechanic where you'd have some efficiency considerations, it's a healing throughput test, like a target dummy for healers.

DrunkTank
04-09-2010, 10:46 AM
Have read in passing in a couple of spots about "Beacon Double-Dipping" or "AA Double Dipping." I know the spells/abilities they refer to.

Anyone clear up the usage for me? What mechanic is going on that allows the double-dipping? or has Blizz fixed it?

Gracias. ;)

Legs
04-13-2010, 01:09 PM
As a holy priest is it more effective to spam cast greater heal or flash heal on VDW?

Also we have a holy pally and resto druid healing... how should we have our healing assignments set up in regards to healing VDW vs raid and who should be taking the portals most often?

Spiritus
04-13-2010, 02:59 PM
As a holy priest is it more effective to spam cast greater heal or flash heal on VDW?

Also we have a holy pally and resto druid healing... how should we have our healing assignments set up in regards to healing VDW vs raid and who should be taking the portals most often?

This depends on spec. If you're 5/5 Divine Fury, I would keep renew up and cast GH. If you're 0/5 Divine Fury and 3/3 Serendipity, I would keep renew up and x3FH/GH.

Honestly, I would send in the holy pally & the resto druid, while having yourself keep up the raid.

In either case, only the two dragon healers should ever be taking the portals, and they should take them whenever possible. Getting max stacks of the buff on your dragon healers is of primary importance.

Legs
04-13-2010, 06:21 PM
Thanks for the info! :D

Proudfaith
04-14-2010, 10:45 AM
OK, so i appreciate the lack of info. I really do. All i can take from this thread is that as a disc priest i should A:) respec holy or B:) stay out and raid heal, as single target healer.... none of this sounds any kinds of apealing. I'm surpriesed that nobody has any help for what a disc priest should be doing in this. I'm a stategist at heart so i've tried different strats but generally our tank/dps gets wipedout from blistering zombies each time.

Quinafoi
04-14-2010, 11:06 AM
As a disc priest by trade i can only see myself being total fail sauce for this encounter as i'm MT healer and usually the last to fall. The best i can see is to be that lone healer holding the fort while others take the portals. Being disc by trade i don't see a reason to respec holy (to which i'm completely not geared for holy) just for a single encounter. My single target buffs only only benificial to myself and my pain suppression dropping it on him/her to reduce the amount of damage being knocked back off due to raid damage, and power infusion on a healer stomping out of the portals stacked full of debuff ready to heal. So agan i can only see my roll as waving to the other healers as they take potals.


OK, so i appreciate the lack of info. I really do. All i can take from this thread is that as a disc priest i should A:) respec holy or B:) stay out and raid heal, as single target healer.... none of this sounds any kinds of apealing. I'm surpriesed that nobody has any help for what a disc priest should be doing in this. I'm a stategist at heart so i've tried different strats but generally our tank/dps gets wipedout from blistering zombies each time.

Was there a question in your post that required answering? Seems like you are complaining that no one offered any advice to you when you never asked for any. All I see are statements and complaints.

Daimon
04-15-2010, 07:18 AM
I have an issue with positioning, our main problem is we're getting too many adds to control, and we get to the enrage with too many adds, so:

1- What is a decent amount of time to get to lets say 75%? (we send 4 healers inside)
2- How many stacks they should get in each portal phase? (assuming they are not losing any, we get the boss to 75% at 5min~ but things seems to stop then)
3- How you should set raid positioning?
We are recently running with lots of melee, so we have 4 each side (where the suppresers stand), we put healers and caster in the middle of the boss so they can reach the raid or the blazing skells, and the 2 tanks are in the front of the room getting the abominations, for supressers we divide DPS and put range to AOE 1 side at a time, then all in skells then melee on mages and casters on the abos then AOEing. Is there anything wrong here?
I've heard ppl saying that is better to nuke suppressers even before skells, others that skeels have top priority then mages, what we do is: Skells>Suppressers> (melee Mages and range Zombies/Abos).

Spiritus
04-15-2010, 09:31 AM
I don't think your issue is add control, though it would be difficult to say w/o a video capture, instead I think you are healing the dragon too slowly.

First off, send three healers in the portals. I know it sounds counter intuitive, but sending in one less healer will actually increase your ability to build larger stacks on your best single target healers, in turn healing the dragon faster.

A few answers:
(1) I don't have an exact number, but the entire encounter shouldn't last longer than, say, 5:30.
(2) That will change if you decide to take my advice and send in three healers. With three, 7-8 per trip isn't unreasonable, 5-6 is adequite, and any less is fail.
(3) Your raid positioning seems fine. I would remove the ranged and healers from the "middle" of the dragon, as they cannot dodge mana voids and "shoot you up in the air" voids if they cannot see them on the ground. Of course, if by "middle" you mean "near" the boss, then you're fine.

A couple of questions:
(1) What healing classes do you have available, who are you sending in now?
(2) Do you assign quadrants for your healers for orb collecting in the dreamstate?
(3) Have you tried prioritizing Mages over suppressors for the raid overall, and just assign a few people to take down suppressors when they spawn?

Daimon
04-15-2010, 10:54 AM
Well, I don't mess with them in how they do it, 3 of the 4 we send they know how to do it and have experience from 10m,
1- We send 1 Pally, 2 Shammys and 1 Holy Priest, ideally instead of the priest we send a resto druid but we didn't have one the last few attempts.
2- No that i know.
3- I set top priority Skells, then Supressors, then Mages, happens that sometimes the mages run by the supressors spot and we aggro the mage so we kill it before it kills some dps. We assing always melee on supressors + AOE from our casters, then we go to Archmages.

Spiritus
04-15-2010, 11:03 AM
I would try the fight out with only sending in only your pally and shaman (shamans? shamanses?). I think you'll be surprised.

Try setting quadrants for when your healers are in the dreamstate, like N, SW, SE. Like a Mercedes Benz logo. That way you will never have one healer assed out on orbs.

Put a slightly higher priority for "raid" DPS (ie-those w/o specific assignments) for mages. It really isn't the damage, but the snare that can really start getting you behind on adds. I would say they are more important than suppressors when you dragon healers are in the portal. Of course, I still suggest having a couple people on each side dedicated to burning suppressors (preferably DPS w/o a reliable interrupt).

Daimon
04-15-2010, 12:37 PM
awesome thanks, we will try that out next time.

Shucks
05-03-2010, 09:13 PM
Alright, we spent all night wiping on this fight on 10 man, and after it all I have a few questions.

We run a 3 healer, 5 dps, 2 tank setup for this fight we usually seem to be making it about to 6 minutes and some change every time before we wipe it up, which from what I'm reading so far shoud be plenty of time to have finished this fight. We have a shaman and a paladin constantly healing the boss and taking every portal and a druid healing the raid.

So, with that info, my questions are as follows.
1. With 2 healers about how much HPS should they be looking at on a successful fight?
2. How important is interrupting the mages frostbolt volley, ie. If its going off to much should it be stopping our healers from being able to take portals. Currently we have it WAY up in priority, with one dps on either side of the room who's job is almost completely to be interrupting them when they are up.

Errvalunia
05-03-2010, 10:17 PM
Alright, we spent all night wiping on this fight on 10 man, and after it all I have a few questions.

We run a 3 healer, 5 dps, 2 tank setup for this fight we usually seem to be making it about to 6 minutes and some change every time before we wipe it up, which from what I'm reading so far shoud be plenty of time to have finished this fight. We have a shaman and a paladin constantly healing the boss and taking every portal and a druid healing the raid.

So, with that info, my questions are as follows.
1. With 2 healers about how much HPS should they be looking at on a successful fight?
2. How important is interrupting the mages frostbolt volley, ie. If its going off to much should it be stopping our healers from being able to take portals. Currently we have it WAY up in priority, with one dps on either side of the room who's job is almost completely to be interrupting them when they are up.

One tank should be fine--our guild does it with only one tank, a paladin, and then a disc priest healing the raid and a resto shaman and resto druid on Val.

The two Val healers (myself the shaman, and our druid) usually pull about 8-9k HPS BEFORE the portals. Over the whole fight we average around 11k-13k each. Do you have World of Logs to show?

Small things, like making sure the shaman drops earth shield on your tank every once in a while, can make a big difference. But, if its taking more than 6 minutes, it may well be an issue with the healers.

Gulvak
05-08-2010, 04:25 PM
Someone has to tell me what nameplates those are in the ten man video!

moda
05-13-2010, 01:19 AM
good job mate

Stevestifler
05-14-2010, 01:11 AM
May i ask what addon you uses for your actionbars? :)

kintler1
05-14-2010, 10:08 AM
just a quick question....im a holy pally and i was just wondering if it would benefit more to just beacon one of the tanks and keep heals up on val 24/7? i do this cuz we single tank this on regular 10m....but yesterday we tried the heroic 10m and healing val and leaving raid heals to our holy priest seems to not work....but when i beaconed val and went to raid heals....her life just kept depleting faster as opposed to my other way of healing.....BUT the raid was kept alive everytime im out of the portal.....any suggestions?? i TRUST our healers to heal the raid....but should i keep beaconing val and raid healing or just beacon a tank and bomb HL on val...?? any suggestions are appreciated :)

Maintarget
05-14-2010, 11:44 AM
The two Val healers (myself the shaman, and our druid) usually pull about 8-9k HPS BEFORE the portals. Over the whole fight we average around 11k-13k each. Do you have World of Logs to show?

Mate, I don't think (remember it's a think), that it is affordable to have two Val-healers, I solo healed it (Holy Paladin), and I came up to 36 stacks of Emerald Vigor and a avg. HPS of 26k while casting (Not counting time in the Emerald Dream). It would be easier doing the raid healing with 2 healers, and you'll get approximately the same Val healing with 1 Val healer. At least with a Pally Healer :)

daedlues
06-06-2010, 09:45 AM
by any chance can you list your addons or upload a pack of them to wow.curse.com your UI just look wonderful

i found a link in your youtube comments and i found it thanks a bunch :)

uglie
06-10-2010, 12:25 AM
So we tried this fight last night in our 10man, our biggest problem seemed to be the warrior tank saying he can't pick up the lil worms from the abominations he said he would thunderclap em but as soon as the TC wore off they would just run straight to the healers. is this more of a dps issue or tanking issue? as a dk, i was able to hold them just fine.

Spiritus
06-10-2010, 09:48 AM
Honestly? Tank error. Warriors have plenty of tools to overcome healer aggro. There are several reasons why this could be, but my general guess is he isn't holding shockwave for the worms, but is instead using in a general threat rotation. TC->ShW->TC should be more than enough threat to keep the worms off healers. Also, is he subbing Cleave for HS as a rage dump when tanking the worms?

uglie
06-12-2010, 04:02 AM
To be honest spiritus I'm not really sure what he's doing. I'll have to ask. As far as what/ how warriors tank i'm clueless since i've yet to play one, sorry if i sound like a noob. So a simply 3-5 worms pick up rotation would be TC -> ShW-> TC with some cleaves in there?

Holyguy
06-29-2010, 10:04 AM
No replys at all?

Nice video, seems like a really funny fight :)

//edit: Just realized it's quite early in the US :P


Ok so basicly i discovered something incredible for holy palas=D 1st Put ur beacon on the fat boss
2: stick on the boss, like 1 ft away
3: spam holy light
result: if u have holy light glyphed, theres a AOE heal that is produced that will heal u, friends, but the beacon of light will make the boss receive the extra heal and augment ur HPS by like 1000.
Try it out!!!!!!:cool:

Spiritus
06-29-2010, 12:27 PM
Ok so basicly i discovered something incredible for holy palas=D 1st Put ur beacon on the fat boss
2: stick on the boss, like 1 ft away
3: spam holy light
result: if u have holy light glyphed, theres a AOE heal that is produced that will heal u, friends, but the beacon of light will make the boss receive the extra heal and augment ur HPS by like 1000.
Try it out!!!!!!:cool:

Even better is to park a hunter pet with the +healing received talent next to VDW, beacon her and heal the pet for even more extra splash heals. Plus, it allows you to be more mobile.

Chirran
07-07-2010, 04:51 PM
Hey,

Im a druid healer and my guild is up to this fight in 10 man
I was wondering if HealBot Continued worked with this boss?
Does it put it in it's own box
Any help would be appreciated

Thanks

Quinafoi
07-08-2010, 07:38 AM
Hey,

Im a druid healer and my guild is up to this fight in 10 man
I was wondering if HealBot Continued worked with this boss?
Does it put it in it's own box
Any help would be appreciated

Thanks

HealBot is a raid frame. Did you're raid leader invite dreamwalker into the raid? NPCs can't be grouped with players, they can fight along side you, but they still are not in your party or raid.

I guess it would be possible however to make a hack to a raid frame to have it include the boss frame as well, but that only makes sense in this context where the boss is friendly and you are helping the boss.

If you're responsible for healing the big dragon, just heal the big dragon. Your raid frame takes up like 10% of your screen, the boss takes up about 80%. It's a big dragon, you shouldn't have any problem targeting it.

Kiwidin
07-08-2010, 09:56 AM
HealBot is a raid frame. Did you're raid leader invite dreamwalker into the raid? NPCs can't be grouped with players, they can fight along side you, but they still are not in your party or raid.

I guess it would be possible however to make a hack to a raid frame to have it include the boss frame as well, but that only makes sense in this context where the boss is friendly and you are helping the boss.

If you're responsible for healing the big dragon, just heal the big dragon. Your raid frame takes up like 10% of your screen, the boss takes up about 80%. It's a big dragon, you shouldn't have any problem targeting it.

Fail.
Set Focus to Dreamwalker and he'll be in your Healbot.

Quinafoi
07-08-2010, 10:07 AM
Fail.
Set Focus to Dreamwalker and he'll be in your Healbot.

Focus is lost when you zone in and out of the Dream State. Whenever you are out of phase with your focus you lose it.

obiwayne
07-29-2010, 06:26 AM
My guild continues to run into trouble with this, and I'm not quite sure why. Last night we swapped in a Holy Pally in place of a DK DPS to three heal it (previously our only two healers were a Shammy/Druid). The issue is we eventually get swamped by mobs; they start coming out way too fast and we can't keep up. Presumably this happens because we're taking too long (WoL shows the fight lasting just over 6 minutes). Is there anything short of beating our Healers into shape that we can do to fix this? And, do you need three heals for this fight? We normally only run with two, and unfortunately nobody else in the raid has a heal offspec, and I'm not a fan of asking someone to bring in a different toon for one boss.

Quinafoi
07-29-2010, 08:30 AM
My guild continues to run into trouble with this, and I'm not quite sure why. Last night we swapped in a Holy Pally in place of a DK DPS to three heal it (previously our only two healers were a Shammy/Druid). The issue is we eventually get swamped by mobs; they start coming out way too fast and we can't keep up. Presumably this happens because we're taking too long (WoL shows the fight lasting just over 6 minutes). Is there anything short of beating our Healers into shape that we can do to fix this? And, do you need three heals for this fight? We normally only run with two, and unfortunately nobody else in the raid has a heal offspec, and I'm not a fan of asking someone to bring in a different toon for one boss.

The better your DPS is at killing the adds, the longer you can last in the fight, however eventually you will always be overrun if you take too long. Around 7 minutes they will start spawning Blazing Skeletons faster than you can kill them. DPS job is to deal with the adds as efficiently as possible. If they do this, their is rarely additional adds up. For example if they are quick to kill a Lich or Zombie that spawns, they are freed up to immediately kill Suppressors when they spawn. Cleaning up the adds fast reduces raid damage and gets rid of the suppressors faster to increase healing. Also, the less damage you take, the less strain on your healers and they heal the boss more.

The other aspect of the fight comes down to the healing you dedicate to the boss, and their skill in flying through the dream state. This is a new experience for healers and simply put, not everyone learns at the same pace. This encounter is in general considered a three healer fight and one tank fight. One mistake many beginners make is to still use two tanks on this fight, that isn't necessary on 10 man. Since you are running with fewer tanks than usual, you can afford the luxury of an additional healer to heal the boss.

How much HPS are your healers doing before the first portal? How much HPS are they averaging for the fight? Low HPS at the start can indicate improper methods employed for the encounter. Low HPS over the course of the fight indicates failure at handling the dream state correctly. If either of these is falling short (either base healer performance, or their performance at handling the mechanics) you will have issues with the encounter.

The most likely issue however is overall control of the encounter. Simply put, if you aren't dealing with the trash efficiently enough, suppressors sit on the boss longer hindering your healing. Clean execution results in significantly higher healing because of that.

Mr.Winkle
07-29-2010, 08:55 AM
If you're surviving for more than 6 minutes than you're providing enough time for your healers.

The fight is 2 healable although 3 is prefferred. If you're running Pala, Shammy, Druid ideally you'll want your Paladin and Shaman entering the portals and your druid staying out to raid heal.

Around the time the healers exit the 4th portal the dragon should be at 75% HP or more. Both healers should also have at least 20 stacks of the buff each. At this point the healers can stay out and burn heroism and heal the dragon to full.

The reasons you could be failing could be one of the following:
1) They're bad healers, they're simply not healing properly. This seems unlikely though as all they need to do is target Valithria and bomb her with their biggest heal.
2) They're not getting enough stacks of the buff or the buffs are falling off. They should be getting around 5 stacks each phase at least, check each healer each time they exit the portals, if they're only collecting 2 or 3 buffs per phase of if their buffs are falling off then they need to improve their bubble popping.
3) Suppresors aren't being killed. Suppresors put a stacking MS debuff on valithria, they should be your 2nd DPS priority after blazing skeletons.

Quinafoi
07-29-2010, 11:20 AM
The fight is 2 healable although 3 is prefferred. If you're running Pala, Shammy, Druid ideally you'll want your Paladin and Shaman entering the portals and your druid staying out to raid heal.

Ideally yes, however don't be approach the assignments with a closed mind. The individual player makes a huge difference. A druid that is simply better at it, will be better. I've outhealed paladins and shamen as a balance druid simply because I was able to handle the mechanics better.

Ideally, you'd want the shaman and the paladin because their single target throughput is higher. However if the paladin or shaman just can't handle it, swap people around. Don't have fixed assignments just because its ideal because your players may not be ideal even if their class is.


Around the time the healers exit the 4th portal the dragon should be at 75% HP or more. Both healers should also have at least 20 stacks of the buff each. At this point the healers can stay out and burn heroism and heal the dragon to full.

This may be a bit early to stay out, especially for people just learning the encounter. If they were more experienced then perhaps. For a raid just learning the encounter I would say to save heroism for around the 90% mark.

You also have to keep in mind, Heroism may not increase the performance of certain healers. For instance a Druid already at their haste cap will see little to no improvement. Some benefit more from the buff than others so keep that in mind.

Fireflight
08-14-2010, 10:45 PM
I think it's worth mentioning that Amplify Magic can be a HUGE help on this fight. Dreamwalker doesnt take much magical damage much herself and the extra healing can really help the portal jumpers.

Also some hunter pets have a 40% increased healing effects talent. You can, in fact, Beacon Dreamwalker and heal the pet and healing is increased by 40%.

These 2 little things can help make the encounter go a little faster so your dps and tanks do not get overcome with adds

Quinafoi
08-16-2010, 09:29 AM
Also some hunter pets have a 40% increased healing effects talent. You can, in fact, Beacon Dreamwalker and heal the pet and healing is increased by 40%.

This is not entirely accurate. The healing done by the beacon is not increased by 40%. The healing done by the glyph's AoE effect is however. If you intend on doing this it is important that the pet be next to the boss at all times so the AoE effect caused by Glyph of Holy Light hits the boss. Effectively, this adds 4% more healing on the boss.

swollenpickles
08-16-2010, 06:14 PM
Can someone confirm whether the following works. I've read conflicting views so would be interested to hear from someone that has actually tried/used this.

Have a hunter bring a tenacity pet with 2 points in Blood of the Rhino ( http://www.wowhead.com/spell=53482 ) and park it near the boss. Have a holy paladin beacon Dreamwalker and spam heals on the hunters pet. Dreamwalker then receives the heals including the 40% bonus from the Blood of the Rhino.

Quinafoi
08-16-2010, 07:26 PM
Can someone confirm whether the following works. I've read conflicting views so would be interested to hear from someone that has actually tried/used this.

Have a hunter bring a tenacity pet with 2 points in Blood of the Rhino ( http://www.wowhead.com/spell=53482 ) and park it near the boss. Have a holy paladin beacon Dreamwalker and spam heals on the hunters pet. Dreamwalker then receives the heals including the 40% bonus from the Blood of the Rhino.

I had just confirmed the correction to that information in the post prior.

The 40% only applies to the Holy Light cast on target. The Beacon of Light does not gain the modifiers of the original target. However, Glyph of Holy Light causes 10% of your Holy Light healing to also heal up to 5 targets in a small area of the target. That 10% is based off the original Holy Light amount. You can buff the Glyph of Holy Light healing by 40%, you can not buff your Beacon of Light healing by 40% in this way. This same rule applies to all type of healing received modifiers (such as feral druids in cat form). The Beacon does not gain the additional benefit.

The reason why you "park the pet near the boss" is because only the splash heal is increased. All the healing modifiers are multipliers. Since this 4% increase (10% of a 40% increase) is also multiplied by the ICC zone buff of 30% and your stacks of the encounter debuff (for simplicity lets say 20, or +200%) you'd get a net effect closer to +15.6% (instead of +4%) at a 20 stack. You would need a 67 stack on the debuff before it would effectively increase your healing on the boss by 40%.

Throdne
11-21-2010, 05:00 PM
I need help finding the names of these addons. can someone help me out.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4108/5196336589_82636f06eb_b_d.jpg

Thanks a million
Thronde