PDA

View Full Version : Extending your Raid ID Rotations



Njordus
02-02-2010, 08:48 AM
My guild casual on time, not so casual on expectations. We only raid 2 nights a week, 8 hours total, and are finding we don't have the time to really get into our progression bosses at the end of the week.

We are moving this week to a 2 week rotation on raid IDs, instead of the standard 1. This loses farming time but increases progression time. Has anyone had success (or failure) with this? What are your thoughts and opinions.

Sady
02-02-2010, 01:16 PM
That's a big trade off to make and a hard choice to make with your limited raid time. You have to be carefull with frustration of guild members, having that second week with no farm content could mean you could spend all 8 hours wiping on one boss which could frustrate a lot of people aka they might not show up every night.

The biggest thing about Extending raid times is missed gear/badges and specifically the Tokens(Deathbringer Saurfang). Missing 2 tier tokens one week hurts. Now I'm not sure how far you are into ICC(i'm assuming your in icc) but the first 4 bosses should take all of 1-1.5 hours. If it's taking longer than that your guild might not want to be skipping that content because they need the gear from it. And if it's not a gear situation it may be that you guys are taking more time than you should. Look at tigtening up the raid through that farm content. It's easy as a raider and raid leader to let that farm content become just a screw around period and that can slow you down. I'm not saying you need to run it military style but reduce down time, don't alow ninja afk's, make sure everyone is ready to clear and get to the new content as quickly as possible. If as a guild you are unable to fly through farm content quickly and efficiently you probably aren't going to have much luck on the progression content.

Now without knowing your exact situation I can't say, I mean if you guys are pushing Blood Queen and just haven't had the time to get to her than maybe I can see doing this.

So I'm personally against doing this but really you just need to ask yourself, Is it going to hurt my guild in the long run by skipping some content. If you extend the ID and down one boss that second week, that's awesome congratulations but what then, you got 3 pieces of gear to help your guild as opposed to the 12-24 pieces you could have gotten if you had redone your farm content. Gear isn't everything but if you can't progress past the reason you extended the ID than it may have been a bad idea. The biggest thing is what's best for your guild, and only you as a raid leader can know that.

Musclebound
02-02-2010, 02:44 PM
My guild never finished Ulduar before ToC was released, so now we have a team of people who actually liked the place, and we attempt one or two new bosses in there every week on an off night, extending the raid ID so we don't have to go back and clear the old bosses again. Its working pretty well for something like that, but for progression? I would think you'd be better off working on making better use of your time and farming the bosses you can get down to gear everyone up, while making it a goal to clear through them faster and faster each week. What I've been doing the last several weeks with my guild, is as soon as the raid is formed and zoned in, I announce in raid warning "Alright, take 5 mins to go bio, grab your drinks, snacks, whatever, because we're not stopping again for the next hour." Generally if people know you're going to schedule a break they'll wait to afk. Another thing I suggest, for example in ICC, is using the built in stopwatch (/sw) and timing how long it takes you to clear the trash up to marrowgar. When my guild first went into ICC it took nearly an hour to clear that trash, but I made it a goal for the raid to improve how quickly and efficiently we cleared thru the trash. We can usually clear the trash before Marrowgar now in 20-25 minutes. We'd be a little quicker if we had a rogue to mark the traps but sadly we don't. Otherwise we could probably knock another 5 minutes off. It helps if you have an impatient tank who's willing to keep pulling and dare everyone else to keep up. In our case, I'm that tank. There's a fine line to walk between egging people on so much that they get careless and make mistakes instead of pushing them to perform at their limits, but if you can walk that line you'll be surprised how much you can get done.

On a side note, if your guild is still mostly focusing on ToC, that place can and should be cleared in an hour, tops. Make sure your raiders understand that they're committing their time to the other 9-24 people in the raid and that time should be reasonably uninterrupted. Set goals and be impatient. Don't be rude, unless you're in one of those guilds where that sort of behavior is expected, but something like "C'mon guys! We should be on Anub already and we're just finishing Faction Champs! Let's pick it up a little." will usually motivate people to focus. Set goals and work towards meeting them. We used to take two nights to clear ToC (Most of our raiders didn't start until halfway through 3.2, its a sharp learning curve) and we now reliably clear it in an hour or less. I would set goals for us, first to get it done in one night (3 hour raid). Once we were able to do that I pushed to get it done in 2 hours, hour and a half, and so on. Now we can go in, farm the place, shard almost every thing for the guild bank, except the few random pieces people still need, or gear up a couple new people, in an hours time. THen we can either go do something fun, like Onyxia or something or just cal;l it an early night. Same is working for icecrown. We're taking two nights a week to get to Deathbringer right now, leaving us very little time to focus on newer bosses. But we're pushing to get through faster and faster and I'm sure we'll be clearing through Saurfang in one night before too long.

Njordus
02-02-2010, 03:22 PM
That's a big trade off to make and a hard choice to make with your limited raid time. You have to be carefull with frustration of guild members, having that second week with no farm content could mean you could spend all 8 hours wiping on one boss which could frustrate a lot of people aka they might not show up every night.

The biggest thing about Extending raid times is missed gear/badges and specifically the Tokens(Deathbringer Saurfang). Missing 2 tier tokens one week hurts. Now I'm not sure how far you are into ICC(i'm assuming your in icc) but the first 4 bosses should take all of 1-1.5 hours. If it's taking longer than that your guild might not want to be skipping that content because they need the gear from it. And if it's not a gear situation it may be that you guys are taking more time than you should. Look at tigtening up the raid through that farm content. It's easy as a raider and raid leader to let that farm content become just a screw around period and that can slow you down. I'm not saying you need to run it military style but reduce down time, don't alow ninja afk's, make sure everyone is ready to clear and get to the new content as quickly as possible. If as a guild you are unable to fly through farm content quickly and efficiently you probably aren't going to have much luck on the progression content.

Now without knowing your exact situation I can't say, I mean if you guys are pushing Blood Queen and just haven't had the time to get to her than maybe I can see doing this.

So I'm personally against doing this but really you just need to ask yourself, Is it going to hurt my guild in the long run by skipping some content. If you extend the ID and down one boss that second week, that's awesome congratulations but what then, you got 3 pieces of gear to help your guild as opposed to the 12-24 pieces you could have gotten if you had redone your farm content. Gear isn't everything but if you can't progress past the reason you extended the ID than it may have been a bad idea. The biggest thing is what's best for your guild, and only you as a raid leader can know that.

Some more info: We clear Lower spire/fester/rotface in about 3 hours. Last week we spent ~3 hours using professor attempts. We are getting close to PP and Should have princes down quickly this week as well. However I don't see us clearing all that, plus BQL, frostwing, and arthas in only 8 hours.

Our gear is not the brick wall atm, its simply time. We got Princes down to <20% twice yesterday with only 20 people in the raid and 5 healers.

Sady
02-02-2010, 04:07 PM
Some more info: We clear Lower spire/fester/rotface in about 3 hours. Last week we spent ~3 hours using professor attempts. We are getting close to PP and Should have princes down quickly this week as well. However I don't see us clearing all that, plus BQL, frostwing, and arthas in only 8 hours.

Our gear is not the brick wall atm, its simply time. We got Princes down to <20% twice yesterday with only 20 people in the raid and 5 healers.

Like I said only you know what's best for your guild and if you can keep people happy than that's all that really matters. It sounds like you have a larger problem in your attendance but as far as the extending raid ID's if I was in your position I would hold off on it for a little while and here's why.

You say you have 8 hours to raid, 3 hours of which is dedicated to Lower Spire and Fester/Rot. That's fairly quick and you could probably improve on that still. But say that takes 3 hours, you have 1 hour left, I would go work on Blood Princes first since that is an easier fight(not a dps race like PP phase 3). If you were able to get them down to 20% that short handed if you have a full raid I would think you could get them down in that time. Then you would have 4 hours the next day to work on PP and Blood Queen and possibly even the 2 new bosses if you can get to them without killing those bosses. If you aren't able to down PP or Blood queen yet even tho you can dedicate an entire 4 hour raid to them then I don't see the advantage of extending the raid lock out. What happens if you down Lower Spire, fester, rot, and princes the first week and get some attempts in on PP. Then you extend the Raid ID and the first day you raid you use up all your attempts. Now you have nothing to do for the rest of the week.

That's my opinion, If you are just clearing bosses and simply don't even have the time to attempt bosses I could see extending the raid lockout and it may be something you need to do by the time you are able to clear up to Arthas. But for now, it sounds like you are getting good attempts on progression bosses(PP and Princes) I wouldn't do it.

Good Luck!