PDA

View Full Version : ICC 25 Festergut Problem



DimetrisDoA
01-28-2010, 12:36 PM
My guild is progressing into ICC 25, and we have 1 shotted the first 4 bosses, but when we encounter Festergut, we are stuck. We wipe within 3minutes everytime. The tanks seem to live just fine, as we have 2 paladin healers and additional help during the 3rd inhale, but from our experiences of Pungent blight, we only have made it to the Pungent Blight twice.
Anyone have advice or suggestions as to what the problem could be? We aren't making it to the Pungent Blight for it to be the Spore problem.

http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/log/1419136

^ raid makeup and performance / results of our 6 attempts.

Thank you for all advice.

Bashal
01-28-2010, 12:56 PM
I'm not overly familiar with wowmeteronline, but I did figure out how to look at the death logs. I just kind of spot checked, didn't look at every player's death in each attempt.

I did see some of this: Festergut (http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/target/11656544/0xF130008F120065B7)'s Pungent Blight (http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/ability/11656544/71219/Pungent%20Blight) hit Zalastor (http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/target/11656544/0x0680000002BF83B6) for 36386 damage.

Which means to me some people aren't getting innoculated. The innoculations also reduce the periodic damage of pungent blight, so that could also explain the pre-exhale deaths.

in some cases it looks like death was caused by the pungent blight periodic damage, which could be lack of innoculations, poor healer placement, or bad rng (healer had to move/was busy puking in a corner and couldn't save the person.)

You might want to be certain people are stacking properly when they stack (i.e. getting close enough), and that the collapse points you set up will allow people to do it efficiently, also you need to be sure they understand they really need 3 stacks of innoculation, not just 1 or 2. If they weren't clear on that, it could be part of the issue.

Someone more familiar with wowmeter can probably do a better job figuring out what may have gone wrong than I.

DimetrisDoA
01-28-2010, 01:00 PM
I completely understand what you're saying but that was just for 1 attempt or so, the other attempts went downhill from our strongest attempt, and for our strongest attempt you are correct we lost a few due to Pungent Blight, but why are we dieing before the blight?

Edit: I completely missed what you are saying, i knew that there was constant raid dmg, and if someone misses a spore it makes the healers work harder, i dont know what i was thinking at first, but what i ment to say is that we lost 4 (2 healers) to the Pungent Blight but no one before that, so why were heals able to keep them up during that attempt ( our best) and not any after that? Im almost positive the spore spreading went great but if 4 missed it (as shown on our best attempt) then that would explain why the healers were struggling, but if we arent even making it to the Pungent Blight then what is the problem? i know it results down to spore control and getting the debuff but if everyone did that, what was the problem?

Bashal
01-28-2010, 01:02 PM
The innoculations also reduce the periodic damage of pungent blight, so that could also explain the pre-exhale deaths.

The peroidic damage that the blight causes decreases with every inhale, but it also gets reduced by inoculations from the spores. It's possible that people aren't getting the innoculations, taking higher periodic damage than they should, and dying.

Which is why you weren't making it to the exhales (when the blight is reintroduced after 3rd inhale and does a ton of shadow damage) -- where you would wipe anyway without enough innoculation stacks.

Bodasafa
01-28-2010, 01:06 PM
Sounds like a Positioning problem.

You should have 2 ranged groups and 1 melee group. The 2 ranged groups should consist of 4 people each that are in a diamond or square formation, spread out 10 yards from each other in the formation. This is to combat the puking ability that gets put on ranged members. When spores come out they collapse to the center of the formation until they all get the inoculated debuff.

Sometimes you have 2 spores spawn in a single range group or the melee group. You need to assign a person to call out which one of the doubles goes where. We designate 1 group as Triangle and 1 as Diamond (think those are the ones DBM dosen't remove in that encounter). So if you get a double in melee, your guy says "Bob go to Triangle" ect.

Edit: You also should have your healers in the melee group so they don't have to stop healing, they just sit there the whole fight.

Predakhan
01-28-2010, 01:08 PM
From your log posted I honestly don't think you have the dps or heals to down him. Your druid for some reason is using regrowth a lot over rejuv which is an odd choice. There is a ton of raid damage early and his numbers should be higher. I also noticed different people had different amounts of innoculation on the same attempt which means they are not getting to spores in time or are just out of range.

Also are ranged spreading out prevent to spreading of vile gas?

DimetrisDoA
01-28-2010, 01:10 PM
Thats what we are doing. We didnt set place to go, but we gave general direction (i.e. Square go right, X go left, Skull stay in melee)
2 ranged groups, 1 melee group. Vile gas wasnt an issue so we were spread out. i THOUGHT they were all being inoculated (im tank so i see them run, not sure if they pick up the debuff tho)

Bodasafa
01-28-2010, 01:15 PM
There is a ton of raid damage early and his numbers should be higher. I also noticed different people had different amounts of innoculation on the same attempt which means they are not getting to spores in time or are just out of range.

When all the gas is in the room or even after the first inhale there is a lot of raid damage your healers must be ready to take care of. Ranged not spread out to prevent the spread of Vile Gas and people not getting inoculate stacks from the spore make the healers job very hard and people will start to die, most notably the ranged members. The Vile Gas targets themselves must also have extra heals when targeted.

Bashal
01-28-2010, 01:15 PM
i THOUGHT they were all being inoculated (im tank so i see them run, not sure if they pick up the debuff tho)

They have to get quite close to the person with the spores. To be safe we stack literally on top of each other, and stay put until we see we get the damage-over-time debuff, which indicates we will receive inoculation. Once you have the DoT, you can spread out again.

Bodasafa
01-28-2010, 01:16 PM
Thats what we are doing. We didnt set place to go, but we gave general direction (i.e. Square go right, X go left, Skull stay in melee)
2 ranged groups, 1 melee group. Vile gas wasnt an issue so we were spread out. i THOUGHT they were all being inoculated (im tank so i see them run, not sure if they pick up the debuff tho)

Its critical everyone has at least 2 stacks and preferably 3 when learning. Assign ranged groups of specific people in specific places, "general area" dose not work.

Bashal
01-28-2010, 01:20 PM
I found that it's a lot easier to track debuffs if you use a mod to put them in a more prominent area on your screen. I use Satrina's Buff Frames, and have debuff icons displayed about x2 larger than normal, near the bottom of my screen. If I didn't get an inoculation, I'll know, because it's easy for me to see.

If people don't know they aren't getting the inoculation debuff becasue they have a hard time locating it on their screen, and just assuming they got it, I can see why they might be scratching their heads, wondering why they died.

DimetrisDoA
01-28-2010, 01:24 PM
Yeah i understand what you're saying, Satrina's Buff Frames, ive heard of it and really wanted to use it but i dont want it to mess with my UI. I wasn't entirely sure if it did mess with my UI so i didnt want to mess with it, and besides this fight, i havent really had an issue with that, but im definetly going to try that out so i know who the slackers are.

Could the problem be the healers? or is it too many people not getting innoculated and taking too much damage? Is it a spore problem or a healer problem?

Bodasafa
01-28-2010, 01:25 PM
I found that it's a lot easier to track debuffs if you use a mod to put them in a more prominent area on your screen. I use Satrina's Buff Frames,

I use the same mod in my UI, love it. Knowing when you have a debuff is very important for raiding.

Bashal
01-28-2010, 01:35 PM
Yeah i understand what you're saying, Satrina's Buff Frames, ive heard of it and really wanted to use it but i dont want it to mess with my UI. I wasn't entirely sure if it did mess with my UI so i didnt want to mess with it, and besides this fight, i havent really had an issue with that, but im definetly going to try that out so i know who the slackers are.

Could the problem be the healers? or is it too many people not getting innoculated and taking too much damage? Is it a spore problem or a healer problem?

SBF only affects the location and display size of your buffs and debuffs, it does nothing else to your UI.

You won't be able to use it to see other people's debuffs in the way that you mean, the suggestion was more aimed at other folks in your raid who may have trouble finding their debuffs and easily seeing what is going on. They may benefit from using that mod or a similar one.

Knowing during a fight what is going wrong is often better than trying to dig through a log later. In this case, if it's easier for raid members to see when they are getting certain debuffs, it's easier for them to know if they're doing it wrong.

In general though, it sounds like a coordination issue, which only gets ironed out by practice. If your execution is still kind of sloppy, you'll see lower healing done and lower DPS until people get more familiar with the fight.

DimetrisDoA
01-28-2010, 01:40 PM
oh so Satrina's is only for my own debuffs and cant see others. dang = /
Is there an addon to where i can see who does / doesnt get the debuff? im really wondering if its a healer problem or if its spore handling. The coordination is there, we have someone calling out where to go and everything, and people run that way, we have 12 seconds i believe to get there and get debuff. As far as i can tell, they are TRYING to get the debuff so im not sure if they actually get it. Im just wondering if we have the heals or dps to do this fight, and if we should skip this and come back with better gear. Maybe try Blood wing as i heard that is more a coordination battle than a gearcheck.

Bashal
01-28-2010, 01:46 PM
oh so Satrina's is only for my own debuffs and cant see others. dang = /
Is there an addon to where i can see who does / doesnt get the debuff?

I suppose you could install GRID, which is a raid frame replacement, and set it to display inoculation stacks.

From what I saw, and at least one other pointed out, it looks like some people are definitely not getting inoculated. Or are only getting 1 or 2 by the time they should have 3.

On top of that, it could also be a healer issue, but it's hard to say for certain until you get the inoculation issue fixed first. If people are still dying all over the place even after you are certain everyone is getting all the inoculations, then yeah, you also have a healer issue.

Bodasafa
01-28-2010, 01:48 PM
Sounds like your issue is all coordination, anything beyond the lower spire will require lots of situational awareness and coordination to beat.

You need to lay it out for your crew and basically say, when spores are out your #1 priority is to be stacked up on your assigned group and get the debuff. Watch your debuff bars to make sure your getting it. Beyond that have someone coordinating on vent where the doubles go and you got spores handled.

Keep the healers in the melee pile so they don't have to move and tell them not to worry about boss hits, they could be infront of the boss and it wouldn't matter.

Edit: You shouldn't have to watch other peoples debuffs, that's their responsibility as a raider to do on their own, if they can't, replace them. Watching your debuffs is raiding 101.

DimetrisDoA
01-28-2010, 02:13 PM
Yeah i understand that i shouldnt have to but with all the free gear going out we find ourselves with people that dont know how to raid, but sit still and tank & spank all the bosses. Watching others debuffs could help so i know who isnt doing their job, and i can tell them to be more cautious of the innoculated debuff.
My main concern is if we just arent ready (healing / dps standpoint) and if we should stop with festergut and head to the blood wing, ive heard that is more coordinated than a gearcheck

Predakhan
01-28-2010, 03:04 PM
My main concern is if we just arent ready (healing / dps standpoint) and if we should stop with festergut and head to the blood wing, ive heard that is more coordinated than a gearcheck

I believe the raid damage needs to be in 125,000 range or higher to beat his enrage timer. From your log your raid is below 100k so I think you may need to get some more gear for a few weeks and then give it a good go.

Bodasafa
01-28-2010, 08:34 PM
My main concern is if we just arent ready (healing / dps standpoint) and if we should stop with festergut and head to the blood wing, ive heard that is more coordinated than a gearcheck

Blood Council is easier than Festergut in terms of gear, but if you have people that cannot watch debuffs and be in the right spot to get a spore, your going to have a lot of issues with all the Balls in the Council encounter and spreading out for shock vortex.

Bashal
01-29-2010, 07:06 AM
Watching others debuffs could help so i know who isnt doing their job, and i can tell them to be more cautious of the innoculated debuff.

If you want to know who the slackers/coordination challenged are in your raid:

Go hit up Heigan the Unclean. See who dies to the poison flares. ;)

HarassMe
01-29-2010, 10:10 AM
The innoculation is key. If you have people dying because they are not innoculated, it is because they are not keeping up with them.

It becomes pretty obvious who is doing what they are supposed to, and who isnt, once that AoE hits. We started calling people out that were not getting innoculated.

Also... we did not worry about our mages and shadowpriests getting innoculated because the mages Iceblock and some Spriest abilitiy, will protect them from the AoE... as long as they make sure to use the ability.

With regards to range, we set our range checkers to 11yds, instead of 10, because that gave a little bit of wiggle room in case someone starts puking and wanders within that 10yd range of the next person.

This encounter isnt setup to allow a chunk of your dps to die to the AoE. You lose enough dps and you're going to hit the enrage timer every single time... gotta make sure people stay up through that blight.

DimetrisDoA
01-29-2010, 11:55 AM
Yeah but my main concern is if its the gear or the players that are causing the problem. I know Blood is less of a gearcheck than Fester / Rot. I was just wondering if anyone could tell me if the problem was our healers, or dps based off of WMO. Hate wasting time wiping if our gear just isnt there yet

Bodasafa
01-29-2010, 01:21 PM
I just noticed were on the same server :D , whats the name of your guild? I checked the log said "doa" they don't show up when i search on http://www.guildox.com/go/g.asp?a=1&r=Eldre%27Thalas-US&w= though.

I searched your character name on the armory (the one you have listed in your profile information here on tankspot) " Dimetris " and found no guild named DOA, linked to that name or any on Eldre'thalas.

I wanted to look at your guilds progress to help you figure out if by what you guys had already accomplished could help tell you what your ready to beat.

Kurasmaniac
01-31-2010, 08:12 AM
From your log posted I honestly don't think you have the dps or heals to down him. Your druid for some reason is using regrowth a lot over rejuv which is an odd choice. There is a ton of raid damage early and his numbers should be higher. I also noticed different people had different amounts of innoculation on the same attempt which means they are not getting to spores in time or are just out of range.

Also are ranged spreading out prevent to spreading of vile gas?

This. after looking at your log, your best attempt has you roughly 40,000 raid dps short of a comfortable kill (a couple of seconds before hard enrage) Your heals also need to pick it up. Festergut on 25 is no joke and a serious gear check. Tell everyone to go hit a dummy and get their numbers up, if everyone raised their dps by ~2k then you might be considering a kill. Until then even if you could survivie longer than three minutes you would run into the hard enrage, which mind you is a very hard enrage.

The raid dps on our first kill was one hundred and thirty five thousand, we got him one second before he enraged.

DimetrisDoA
02-01-2010, 04:46 AM
I just noticed were on the same server :D , whats the name of your guild? I checked the log said "doa" they don't show up when i search on http://www.guildox.com/go/g.asp?a=1&r=Eldre%27Thalas-US&w= though.

I searched your character name on the armory (the one you have listed in your profile information here on tankspot) " Dimetris " and found no guild named DOA, linked to that name or any on Eldre'thalas.

I wanted to look at your guilds progress to help you figure out if by what you guys had already accomplished could help tell you what your ready to beat.

I transfered servers, and im now on Garrosh. Just recently, and that was my personal log that i was running, not the guild's log so that may be why it says DoA. That was my former guild name.