trouble in raid leading paradise

[xehnon]

so my guild does steadily 10 man raids main focus atm ICC(duh)

we usually have the same 10 people who almost always attend to it and here comes the big problem.

our guild recently got reinforced with about 4 new members from another guild that disbanded now those 4 would also like to join on the ICC raids. I am not the guild leader im usually the main tank and the person who orginises the raids and leads them.

now last 2 weeks our runs have been overbooked because of that.I do not want to kick people from out original 10 man start team(we been trough most raids together starting nax) to give the others the chance.

now recently the guildmaster kicked me off raidmanaging duty's and gave it to another player, that is actually setting up 2 x10 man(so far we got 14 ICC able people and prolly 2 more incoming).

and here comes the big problem one or 2 out of our original starters cant and wont be avialable all the time anymore(first problem for 2x10 teams) so thats usually 2 spots that might be filled or wont be filled at all if we use 2x10(due to being exactly 20 people we would need a few extras and it would give the same old problem that got us into this mess).

im trying to explain the guildmaster that if we dont keep it as it was now and find some alternative solution to 2x10 mans, problems will and shall just continue to pop up people wanting to switch to RG2 because they got better progress or a RG1 not being able to go due to persons not showing up etc.

now after all that stupid writing i just did here comes the question for those who Tldr
could anyone give me a better suggestion to keep the raiding going with the same 8 instead of 10(since 2 always uncertain) and that wont make the other 4 new members leave and gives everyone a fairshot at raiding?
or atleast a good way to make sure all 2 10 mans get to raid each week then even should people drop out etc

ty in advance and sorry for the wall of text

[Proletaria]

You're either going to break down your roster and select the players who out-play others, or you're going to expand and get more players to fill out a second raid. There is really no way a guild that small can hold on to a 4-man bench team. If you're soon to have 2 or more people missing, you might want to consider just condensing the raid group down and working on what you've got. Alternatively you can combine your two groups with some pugs and try to break into the 25man scene.

We can't really tell you how to recruit, or give you a tailor-made way to trial new members without hurting anyone's feelings. These are things that raid leaders and guild leaders have to judge from their own experience. How you handle it depends a lot on the attitudes you're dealing with in raid at present, and what you expect from the future.

Sorry if that wasn't much help, but the TLDR is basically this: Guilds don't last long when they middle between stages. You either grow your raids to fill out full runs, or you bleed off members until you can only fill one. Take this time to really soul-search for what you and your members want out of the guild and then follow the path that seems to best fulfill those goals.

[Penlowe]

If the GM fired you from raid leading it sounds like they are interested in growing the guild, most likely actively recruiting to try and maybe even grow to running 25 man content.That said, ask them. They may be pie-in-the-sky dreaming when their methods aren't suited to their goals. You may just be out of the loop of what the majority of your guild desires. Your GM may be out of the loop of what the majority of the guild desires. Nothing good will happen if you don't talk about it.

[nethervoid]

This recently happened to our old 10m guild. GM was adding more people even though we had 11-12 on every night to raid. GM (and his GF, who was also an officer [that never did anything - red flag 1]) was recently back from random hiatus for 2 months, over which time another officer and I had been running the show and had progressed the guild into ToC (which was end game at that time). Also the GM and his GF immediately got slots in every raid, and sat some regulars [red flag 2].

So he starts adding recruits to the guild, 1 at a time. Members as well as me and the guy who were running things while he was gone were getting upset because we already had people sitting each week. We purposefully do not intend to ever run 25m because many of us are old raiders and tired of that game (personally I used to lead 72m in EQ - smaller is better IMO). Finally I had to call an officer meeting (which he should have done, not me) to talk about this problem because our best raiders were really getting pissed. He said he wouldn't add any more people. So we had like 14 regulars now, and had to manage that headache every damn week.

Not a week after we had this talk, he adds another warrior tank (we already had 3 tanks, which includes myself, best geared tank and a warrior [red flag 3]). I message him 'wtf man? we talked about this!'. He then adds 2 RL friends.

At that point, I decided to leave the guild and form my own guild. I've had enough experience creating and leading guilds, and figured I'd be better off starting from scratch. Well almost every other raider decided to come with me, of their own volition. So the old GM and his dead weight GF got left in the dust because they didn't listen to the membership.

Now I lead the guild, and as I have always done, I listen to everyone. We all have equal say on how things are ran, because we're all adults and this is a friggin' 10m guild. It's not like there's gads of work to be done like there was in EQ 72m days. lol We're all good friends, some of us ever since WoW went gold. We all help to run the guild and chip in where it's needed.

If your old members feel the same way you do and the GM won't listen (you have to at least try to talk to him about what's going on), then maybe you guys need to do the same thing we did. Sometimes the GM gets a god complex, and needs to be smacked off that high horse.

[xehnon]

So i tried talking to the GM and his answer was just plain and simple im not in the mood of fixing everything and taking care of all the problems that arise if i do i would be stressed 24/7


makes me wonder why he even is a guildleader in the first place :s

discussed things over with a few members they dont want to leave but also do not agree with the raid options we have now
chances are either i will just leave and let them figure out or give it another shot to talk with the new raid organiser on a better solution which so far ended in a flame fest (i swear that dude has something agianst me he been playing wow from vanilla did hardcore raids and all but know is taking it easier yet he always acts stuck up even tho my point was valid)

thx anyways for the advice

[nethervoid]

Looks like you have the same decision to make as I did.

1. Stay and eventually quit WoW cause of the drama.
[Not an option IMO]
2. Leave and join some other guild.
[Probably have the same damn issues there]
3. Leave and form my own guild.
[I have more experience at leading anyway - Might as well just do it myself - 10m are low overhead, so it won't be a lot of extra work]
4. Quit WoW altogether.
[Not really ready for that]