PDA

View Full Version : Icecrown Blood Queen Lanathel



Ciderhelm
01-20-2010, 05:39 AM
You can find a guide to the heroic version of this encounter here (http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?63493-Icecrown-Blood-Queen-Lanathel-Hard)!

YtzGKqaLUeE

ZdRvXHzSDD0

http://www.tankspot.com/forums/images/snowfall/donorbanner.jpg (http://www.tankspot.com/premium.php)


Hi, I'm Lore from Tankspot. In this video, I'll be demonstrating the 25-man normal version of the Blood Queen Lana'thel encounter.


Blood Queen Lana'thel has both a very large health pool and a very restrictive enrage timer. To overcome this, you'll need to make efficient use of her Essence of the Blood Queen debuff. Shortly into the fight, she'll bite the highest non-tank on her threat list, dealing around 12,000 damage and afflicting them with Essence of the Blood Queen. This causes the bitten player to deal 100% increased damage, heal themselves for 10% of their damage, and cause no threat. Ideally, you want your highest melee DPS to be bitten first, as she'll run across the room to bite a ranged player, wasting valuable DPS time.


Essence of the Blood Queen lasts for 60 seconds, at which point it will be replaced with Frenzied Bloodthirst. Once this happens, the player's action bar will be completely emptied except for Vampiric Bite -- the same ability Lana'thel uses. Players affected by Frenzied Bloodthirst have 10 seconds to use that ability to bite another player, thereby passing the Essence on to the other player as well as refreshing their own. This has a cascading effect as the fight continues. Once another 60 seconds are up, both players will then have to bite new targets, leaving 4 players with Essence. Eventually those 4 will have to bite 4 more, leaving 8, and so on.


Should a player with Frenzied Bloodthirst not bite anyone within the 10 second timer, they will be mind controlled and must be killed. This is a very bad thing. Not only do you lose that player's DPS, you have to waste valuable time killing them, and have one less player spreading the Essence debuff. For those reasons, failing even one bite practically guarantees a wipe unless you significantly outgear the DPS requirement.


It's also important to note that everyone has to bite someone different. Aside from the need to spread the Essence to all the DPS you can, the Vampiric Bite ability does not work on someone who has already been bitten. Since it's quite likely, especially in the latter portions of the fight, for two players to choose the same person, it's very helpful to set up a bite order ahead of time. Make sure to prioritize higher DPS players to be bitten earlier. Communication is important as well -- players will need to know where the person they're biting is ahead of time, and if they don't, they need to find out quickly.


The raid's positioning is very important here. All of your ranged DPS and healers will need to be as spread out as possible, preferably at least 6 yards away from each other, with the healers more toward the center of the room to make sure everyone's in range. This is due to Lana'thel's Twilight Bloodbolt ability. She'll randomly cast this on any non-tank, causing around 10,000 damage to the target and anyone too close to them. Limiting this splash damage on ranged classes is important. However, she can target melee with Bloodbolt, resulting in unavoidable splash damage on the rest of the melee. For this reason, we have our melee DPS split into two separate groups, to the left and right of the boss.


Every two minutes, Lana'thel will run to the center of the room, fear everyone for a short period of time, and start casting Bloodbolt Whirl. This is essentially just her normal Bloodbolt ability, cast three times on every member of the raid. Positioning can be even more difficult here -- aside from the fact that the fear just completely scrambled everyone's positioning, all of the melee DPS needs to expand as well. The fear makes it almost impossible to set positioning ahead of time, so everyone just needs to find an open area, using as much of the room as possible. Since everyone is being hit by Bloodbolt simultaneously, two people standing too close to each other will take upward of 20,000 damage instantly.


Healing is extremely tight during this phase, so any hybrid DPS that can't damage her while she's in the air should try to help out on healing. It can also be very helpful to have healers avoid or break the fear with things like fear ward or tremor totem, and let them pick a spot quickly while the rest of the raid works around them.


One final warning regarding the air phase: The timing of the Essence debuff falling off tends to line up very closely with the first fear going out. Quite often, bites will need to go out as she's running to the center of the room. Tanking her as far from the center as possible can give a little extra time to get bites out, as well as making sure the first player with Essence gets their first bite out instantly as well.


There are four other main abilities that will need to be dealt with, though they're fortunately much simpler. Pact of the Darkfallen links three raid members together with a bright purple beam. While it's active, all three players will be constantly exploding, causing shadow damage to anyone else who is nearby. In order to cancel Pact of the Darkfallen, the three players must stand directly on top of each other for a brief period of time. Since latency causes players to appear in different places to each other, we found it best to simply have everyone with Pact go stand on the blue diamond on the floor in the very center of the room until their debuff falls off.


The next ability, Swarming Shadows, is practically identical to the Legion Flame debuff from the Lord Jaraxxus encounter. Just kite it away, preferably to the edges of the room, and stay out of the purple fire.


There's also her Blood Mirror ability. She casts this on the tank, who is then linked to the person standing closest to them. The linked player then takes 100% of the damage the tank does, as unresistable Shadow damage. The simplest way to deal with this is to simply have a second tank stand on top of the first. However, the only thing that really matters is the other player's health pool and damage reduction. If your healers can keep them up, a DPS-specced player with a full set of tanking gear can work as well, while potentially contributing more damage to the fight.


Finally, there's her Shroud of Sorrow aura. This causes up to 4500 damage to everyone in the raid every three seconds, and must be healed through. Prayer of Shadow Protection or a Shadow Protection Aura help greatly with this, as well as most of her other abilties.


Blood Queen Lana'thel is an extremely tight DPS and healing check that will test your ability to execute strategies quickly and efficiently. As always, if you'd like more information on this or any other encounter, just head over to Tankspot.com and click the Movies link in the top navbar. If you're watching this on Youtube, you can just follow the link in the movie details to go directly to the Blood Queen Lana'thel thread. Thanks for watching, and good luck!




Hello and welcome to the TankSpot Icecrown Citadel Raid Guide! My name is Aliena and in this video I'll cover everything you need to know about the normal mode 10-man version of the Blood-Queen Lana'thel encounter. Currently you only get 15 attempts per raid lockout period to kill this boss.

Since raid damage is fairly high, we went with a setup of 2 tanks, 3 healers and 5 dps. However if you're very confident in your healing abilities, it might be possible to do this fight with 2 healers. Either way, you will need amazing dps, especially if you go with 3 healers.

Throughout the entire encounter your raid will be faced with a debuff called Shroud of Sorrows. This quite simply inflicts 4500 shadow damage to everyone every 2 seconds and cannot be avoided.

Lana'thel has an ability called Vampiric Bite that she'll use 15 seconds into a fight on a random player, infecting them with a debuff called Essence of the Blood Queen, which will increase their damage dealt by 100% and will heal them for 15% of the damage that they do. This only lasts 50 seconds though and unless they bite another person after these 50 seconds are up, they will get mind-controlled by Lana'thel and must be killed.

The rule of thumb for this is to make sure that your best damage dealers get infected first - ideally set up an order ahead of time - then the healers and last of all the tanks. Approximately 4 minutes into the fight people will start getting mind-controlled no matter what you do, so this sets a tight soft enrage timer.

Lana'thel should be tanked where she's standing at the start of the fight, try to leave the middle of the room open. The reason for this is her ability called Pact of the Darkfallen which she uses approximately every 30 seconds. This links 2 players together and deals shadow damage to them and anyone nearby every second until both targets are within 5 yards of each other and the red beam dissipates. Assign a meeting point away from the melee pile to avoid extra damage taken.

Another ability she uses periodically is Swarming Shadows. This works much like Legion Flames on Lord Jaraxxus. You basically poop out a trail of shadow flames wherever you move to for 7 seconds. To minimize damage, it is best to kite this towards the wall. If healing is not an issue, you can also remain stationary through it, but caution is advised.

The reason you want two tanks for this encounter is her ability called Blood Mirror. This is cast on the main tank and will make your target nearest to the tank take the same damage as the main tank himself, so just have your offtank stack on your main tank to avoid melee deaths.

About every 2 minutes Lana'thel will cast Bloodbolt Whirl. basically she'll fear everyone, fly up into the air and shoot 8k damage Bloodbolts at every raid member for 6 seconds. When this occurs - and it should only be once throughout the encounter - everyone should be at least 6 yards apart from everyone else or you'll take additional damage from your neighbor and will probably die.

If you can manage to deal with the high raid damage and the tight enrage timer, ie the gear check, Lana'thel is a fairly straightforward encounter. As mentioned, you have approximately 4 minutes until people start dying and after that you should really be close to getting her down or else you'll be in trouble.

Have fun and Good luck!

Thank you for watching this movie. As always, feel free to ask questions or add suggestions either on YouTube or in the strategy thread on TankSpot.com. Also, TankSpot Donors can download all of these movies in High Definition directly from our servers -- so if you'd like to learn more about that, just click the second link in the movie information box!

Ciderhelm
01-20-2010, 05:46 AM
We don't have a transcript for this at the moment though we will probably get one up over the next few days (Aliena is still in that pretty busy stage!). As per last content release, the 25-man for this encounter is a bit delayed due to the limited attempts and the server instability on Tuesdays.

hard_jay
01-20-2010, 06:38 AM
what is the dps requirement for that encounter solo and raid if you don,t count tanks for 10 and 25 man

Consilium
01-20-2010, 06:58 AM
It is sickening knowing how much damage that hammer mitigates, only our holy pally has it....wow.....so much less damage -.-
(yes I realize you probably had a disc priest too(at least looked like it)

Glarain
01-20-2010, 09:23 AM
Why does aliena feel the need to eat her mic on the latest vids? :(

Makes for listening to her pretty hard , infact last video i had to cut her off half way through and make do with reading the tactics .(normaily i read then i watch :) )

Maylet
01-20-2010, 09:40 AM
did no one die in that video to MC? if so thats pretty awesome

Aliena
01-20-2010, 09:56 AM
I ain't eating anything, my mic's the same it's always been.

One person died at 4%

Ectar
01-20-2010, 10:08 AM
Wicked vid once again, no probs hearing it over here, :D

Hehulk
01-20-2010, 10:31 AM
Am I watching the video correctly, that Lana'thel only bit 1 person in 10 man, and it was just people spreading the bite from there?

Ghladum
01-20-2010, 11:54 AM
Any experience in 10 or 25man Lanethel with letting one (or more) of the original people that get bitten die and the Rebirth/Ankh/Soulstone? Seems like it would be way too easy to extend the encounter's limits with that strategy, so surely it doesn't work, but I've yet to hear anything definitive.

Ciderhelm
01-20-2010, 11:59 AM
Am I watching the video correctly, that Lana'thel only bit 1 person in 10 man, and it was just people spreading the bite from there?
Disclaimer: I have not done the encounter yet.

That said, my understanding is that Lana'thel will bite one person during the encounter and will not bite again so long as the debuff is present on someone. She will bite another person if the debuff is not present in the raid.

Xuthal
01-20-2010, 01:23 PM
Disclaimer: I have not done the encounter yet.

That said, my understanding is that Lana'thel will bite one person during the encounter and will not bite again so long as the debuff is present on someone. She will bite another person if the debuff is not present in the raid.

Wow, if that's the case, then the mechanic is far less cruel than I first supposed. Thanks for sharing that (with all due qualifications).

Xu

Ciderhelm
01-20-2010, 04:50 PM
Transcript is up!

PtrN
01-20-2010, 05:00 PM
If I'm reading and hearing the mechanics properly, the amount of bitten people grows exponentially.

One person gets bit, they bit someone after 50 seconds and the buff gets refreshed, after another 50 seconds both people have to bite another, making 4 bitten people in the raid.

So 15 second mark, 1 person
1:05 - 2
1:55 - 4
2:45 - 8
3:35 - 8 (two people become MC'd)

Granted, you have a 10 second grace period, so with perfect bite execution (As in you bite someone the instant before becoming MC'd) you get another 40 seconds, making the MC mark at 4:15.

This means you need to bring 5569 DPS per person in the raid (including your tanks and heals).

14.2mil HP / (255 seconds * 10 people)

Someone please correct me if my math is wrong or I misunderstand the mechanics.

EDIT:

Did some more modeling. end result: If you assume a tank does half as much DPS as a DPS'er (Or both tanks together equal an additional DPS) then 3 healers requires 5942 DPS, 2 healers 5369 DPS

Long Math:

Given x people performing n DPS:

0 - 15: xn * 15
15-75: x(n+1) * 60
75-135: x(n+2) * 60
135-195:x(n+4) * 60
195-255:x(n+8) * 60

Adding together everything, we end up with 255xn + 860x = 14,200,000

with 3 healers, you have 5 DPS so n = 6
2 healers: n = 7

This is to kill her before a MC goes out, also, it assumes your biting at the last possible moment before an MC, so DPS should be slightly higher. If you can't bring the DPS your going to cut it close because at the 255s mark (3:15), your going to lose 6 people, and will lose everyone at the 315s (3:15) mark.

Again, wrong reasoning or bad math please let me know.

(Edit: at that moment you lose all but 4 people, not 2 DPS)

Kazeyonoma
01-20-2010, 05:07 PM
your math is correct but you're neglecting a few things.

the easiest way is to assume you only have 5 dps as the video suggests

that means 14.2mil / 255 seconds * 5 people = 11137 dps per dps'er

However, the bitten person, deals 100% damage, so that means as the fight goes longer, more people are doing more and more dps as they are vampyr. So this is possible, but the formula gets harder as you go through it.

Tylecaner
01-20-2010, 06:48 PM
Hello.

Raid DPS shouldn't be a problem if you manage to keep everyone alive. We had problems two healing the encounter with both healers doing roughly 8 to 9k HPS so we switched to three.

We used a Holy Priest, Resto Shaman, and Holy Paladin. Seeing this fight though I'd have to say it is a Resto druids dream boss fight like twins.

We still managed to kill Lanathel with 2 tanks(druid/pally), 3 healers, and 5 dps if guilds are wondering if it is possible. DPS requirements WILL be higher. Our DPSers were averaging roughly 8k - 13k with the 100% buff. So on average players hitting 4k to 6-7k normally should suffice for 10 man atleast. We also had no sunder/expose armor. Our tanks were putting out 2.5k to 3k DPS

We also had very little "synergy" but the players were top notch on knowing mechanics etc.

Just saying this fight is still possible and very fun with 3 healers and 5 dps.

Solidor
01-20-2010, 10:38 PM
Hey,

we did it with 2 healers (Holy Pala and Resto Druid), we managed to kill her in our 3rd attempt. We were nearly killing her in attempt 2 but our healer got crushed by this "brain link" somehow. I think DPS is not the measure in this fight, but the right execution of the encounter mechanics. After the first bite, we traded the vampire buff to either 1 Range DPS or 1 Melee, depending on who got bitten first, and so goes the chain to all DPS, then tanks an finally the healers, when your 2 healers manage to heal this encounter, then everything that matters is just the right execution of distributing the vampire buff to the right people first, I think our worst DPS was me with 7400 DPS (I got the buff at last) this boss was fairly easy compared with the prof 2 weeks ago, when HE was all new.

We had a Tankadin, Tank Druid, Heal Pala. Resto Druid, Mage, Rogue, Enhancer and Elemental Shaman, Ret Pala and myself as a Warlock.

Rak
01-21-2010, 12:54 AM
Any experience in 10 or 25man Lanethel with letting one (or more) of the original people that get bitten die and the Rebirth/Ankh/Soulstone? Seems like it would be way too easy to extend the encounter's limits with that strategy, so surely it doesn't work, but I've yet to hear anything definitive.

YouTube - How To / Guide - Blood Queen Lana'thel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6VMysQNIZM)
The Exodus strat vid does this and says it extends the time to wipe to MCs by a minute. The guy in the vid says the dps requirement is pretty easy doing it that way.

Djtk
01-21-2010, 01:15 AM
"This only lasts 50 seconds though and unless they bite another person after these 50 seconds are up, they will get mind-controlled by Lana'thel and must be killed."

Is there not the 10 second timer AFTER the 50 seconds to bite someone? If so then this statement is VERY misleading.

Keinda
01-21-2010, 01:24 AM
Would it be possible to bite a a players pet? This could extend the timer and lower the requirements a bit if possible.

Anu
01-21-2010, 03:36 AM
My 10 man did this last night and it only took us a couple of tries to get a order set for who get's bitten but other than that it's a ok fight.

1st try we had some newbish dps tunnel vision who didn't realise he had it and got MC'd

2nd try we just ran out of time on the bites and it was on something like 5%.

3rd try we got it without a MC going through and also amazingly some tank look dropped for me which seems to not happen in our 25 man.

We did however find the council a bit tricky .. well tricky while our ranged tank got used to picking up the purple orbs to protect himself.. we even got the acheveiment for no raid member takeing more than 26k of spell damage in the fight.

But we did a clearance in the one night which is good going since I hadn't looked at the tactics a great deal which is bad for a raid leader I know :P

Still I really enjoyed the fight but I'm sure it will be very interesting once the heroics come. hopefully by then I've alot more new gear to help me along the way.

Zellviren
01-21-2010, 05:10 AM
I only have one question, and it's to do with Blood Mirror:

What's the deal with this? Is it something that has an uptime of, say, 12 seconds (thus, the MT using Shield Wall mitigates it), or is it something she uses for singular attacks, albeit liberally?

Depending on which it is, this is potentially yet another fight that says "take a Holy paladin if you want the healing difficulty cut in half".

Tahriel
01-21-2010, 08:24 AM
I only have one question, and it's to do with Blood Mirror:

What's the deal with this? Is it something that has an uptime of, say, 12 seconds (thus, the MT using Shield Wall mitigates it), or is it something she uses for singular attacks, albeit liberally?

Depending on which it is, this is potentially yet another fight that says "take a Holy paladin if you want the healing difficulty cut in half".

Seemed to me that it's an ability that is up the entire fight.

Rennadrel
01-21-2010, 09:00 AM
So this really is out already, damn Blizzard wasted no time adding these bosses, my guild is still stuck on Saurfang in 25 man but we should have all of this cleared on 10 man no problem by the sounds of it. The mechanics of this fight don't seem to be too hard really, timing is key and having some solid DPS would help.

merendel
01-21-2010, 10:51 AM
So this really is out already, damn Blizzard wasted no time adding these bosses, my guild is still stuck on Saurfang in 25 man but we should have all of this cleared on 10 man no problem by the sounds of it. The mechanics of this fight don't seem to be too hard really, timing is key and having some solid DPS would help.

Probably not the place to discuss this but your best chance on geting unstuck on saurfang is assign small teams to each add. if not enough hunter traps 1 slower/dps and 1 strait DPS on each add works wonders. if everybody does their job all adds die in 10s without ever reaching anybody and all go back to DPS, leting the first mark or two die can also make it easier.

Rebmes
01-21-2010, 05:50 PM
This wasn't mentionned or explained with facts.

When you get bit, how do you bite someone else? How do you choose the next target?

Also, what makes it so that more people are bitten as the fight progresses; does she bite more people?

Once you were bitten once, can you be bitten again later to increase your dps again?

Thanks!

Morphy
01-21-2010, 06:38 PM
When you get bit, how do you bite someone else? How do you choose the next target?

Also, what makes it so that more people are bitten as the fight progresses; does she bite more people?

Once you were bitten once, can you be bitten again later to increase your dps again?

Thanks!



You're choosing the target by yourself (it should be a dps). You bite the player with the ability which will be on your "1" key, and it should be the only thing you can use at this time.
That's already mentioned in the video. You just need to focus a bit while you're watching it. Bitten players needs to bite someone else in order to prevent geting MC'ed.
No you cant.

Artog
01-22-2010, 04:51 AM
Can't find any confrimation that there is more people initially bitten in 25man.

Is there only one bitten in 25 too ?

so it goes 1 -> 2 -> 4 -> 8 -> 16 -> 25 (where 7 people got MC'ed) ?

wich brings the soft enrage on 25man to ~315 sec

mav1234
01-22-2010, 08:29 AM
Does anyone know if this hotfix makes it impossible to sacrifice players in order to extend the soft enrage timer?

Repartee
01-22-2010, 08:46 AM
Does anyone know if this hotfix makes it impossible to sacrifice players in order to extend the soft enrage timer?

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - BQL Hotfix (http://blue.mmo-champion.com/12/22748955714-bql-hotfix.html)

The hotfix merely negated the need to 'let someone die' by extending the duration of Essence of the Blood Queen. Now the time it takes for your raid to get fully MC'ed and the enrage timer supposedly match up.

chris73760
01-22-2010, 09:10 AM
was just wondering..what do you guys use to record your fights?

Timecks
01-22-2010, 10:32 AM
was just wondering..what do you guys use to record your fights?
Fraps

Timecks
01-22-2010, 10:35 AM
MMO-Champion BlueTracker - BQL Hotfix (http://blue.mmo-champion.com/12/22748955714-bql-hotfix.html)

The hotfix merely negated the need to 'let someone die' by extending the duration of Essence of the Blood Queen. Now the time it takes for your raid to get fully MC'ed and the enrage timer supposedly match up.
Hopefully this timer change fixes the problem we encountered last night, when we had 4 ppl needing to go to 8 in 10man it was during the 2nd fear / air phase, we would often lose a couple ppl to double bolts shooting down... turning into a 3% enrage timer wipe instead of a kill.

mav1234
01-22-2010, 11:44 AM
hmm... Maybe they'll address the fear mechanic somehow. Otherwise, that seems like it could cause some major issues with terrible luck

Holywraith
01-22-2010, 06:40 PM
We did this last night on 10man - it was surprisingly easy we just made sure we organized a bit list to maximize dps First bitten -> highest dps then the next was to the next two highest dps then we bloodlust massive dps.

We had to time the bites to the last moment as our when it came up for the bite phase she was in her air phase where people need to spread out - we also had the holy pally bubble sac this air phase very shortly after that the encounterwas all over.

svjm2011
01-22-2010, 11:28 PM
this might be a stupid question but during this fight can the tank me MCed as well? Also could and undeads Will of the Forsaken bear that MC

squats
01-23-2010, 01:43 AM
this might be a stupid question but during this fight can the tank me MCed as well? Also could and undeads Will of the Forsaken bear that MC

Yes, and no.

Gauroth
01-24-2010, 10:11 PM
The Essence timer lines up with the 2nd air phase, well lets just say biting people in the 2nd air phase is wiping us.

Anyone else experiencing this inconvenience?

1.8% wipes etc, suck. I suppose we should be killing her before the 2nd air phase, however we're 3 healing to compensate for the raid damage... Sigh. Je suis frustrated.

EDIT: We tried delaying when we bite people, and also tried doing it asap to try and un-align the air phase with our bites, we had little success.

odinonehorn
01-24-2010, 10:30 PM
two things. my guild only did a few cursory attempts but here's what i noticed

1. i was our OT for the fight and i wasnt seeing any blood mirrors. in fact, i had the second lowest damage taken for the few attempts we did.

2. for that link ability, is there anything that stops folks from just stacking together and moving as a group when someone gets shadow puddled?

Kazeyonoma
01-25-2010, 02:04 AM
two things. my guild only did a few cursory attempts but here's what i noticed

1. i was our OT for the fight and i wasnt seeing any blood mirrors. in fact, i had the second lowest damage taken for the few attempts we did.

2. for that link ability, is there anything that stops folks from just stacking together and moving as a group when someone gets shadow puddled?

1) you need to make sure you're the closest to the tank, if you're not, then someone else is getting blood mirrored

2) she shoots out twilight bolts that target a randomr aid member and does aoe damage when it lands.

Zellviren
01-25-2010, 02:24 AM
Yep, it's as I suspected with Blood Mirror - take a Holy paladin and you have an easy time of it. If (like us) you don't raid with a Holy paladin, you're going to struggle with the raid damage; it's far from insignificant. This week we're going to be taking a pile of shadow potions to lessen it a bit more and, hopefully, that'll do the trick.

I resolutely refuse to gear up a Holy paladin of less skill, experience and commitment just because Blizzard seems to like fights that favour them so strongly.

Tahriel
01-25-2010, 04:44 AM
This week we left the Plagueworks to focus all our attempts on Blood Queen. We went on the Thursday for Blood Queen attempts and after 13 wipes, (2 attempts left) we decided to leave it there and possibly come back giving us a bit of time to think something up. We got the boss to 4% on our best try before people started getting mind controlled.

After going back after the fix or nerf, whichever you feel is the best explanation of it. We one shot the Blood Queen encounter with our two attempts left and then did Plagueworks wing without a wipe. Seems us saving those 2 attempts served us well. Anyway, anyone attempting Blood Queen after the fix or nerf, shouldn't have a single problem with the Mind Controlling, unless you're quite undergeared for the encounter.

(I believe it was a nerf, they should of lowered the enrage timer so it was still a big gear check. Although after thinking about it, it is normal mode so i guess they fixed the encounter.... hmm)

Aethelas
01-26-2010, 02:05 AM
Last sunday our offtank kept dying in the 25 man version. When we swapped back and forth between soaking and tanking it stopped happening. I did notice a 5-6 dot debuff on me every now and then but it always expired before it could stack up when I got it.

Am I missing something here?

Artog
01-26-2010, 05:07 AM
You'd be meaning this:

Delirious Slash (http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:Outbound&f=Blood-Queen_Lana%27thel_%28tactics%29&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wowhead.com%2F%3Fspell%3D71625) 10 yd range — Inflicts 50% of weapon damage to an enemy and causes it to bleed for 5250 to 6750 damage per application every 3 sec. for 15 sec.

This doesn't seem to be present in the 10man encounter and i havn't tried the 25 yet. But as of the short duration makes this easy to counter, just let your offtank take over for a while.

I was also thinking yesterday when we did this on 10man.

The common perception seems to be this biteorder:

1: dps (from the boss)
2: 2 dps
3: 4 dps
4: 5 dps and 3 healers

leaving the two tanks to last, because of the threatreduction.

But shouldn't it be easier to bite 1 healer and the 2 tanks ?

by the time you have to bite healers, the fight is almost over. and the threat the tanks have gained throughout the fight should be enough to last until the end (with no dps making any threat)

This way you have a much greater dpsgain from the tanks and thus finishing it off a little quicker?

or am i totally off? :P

Aethelas
01-26-2010, 05:37 AM
Well, to be honest, when we started swapping I generally swapped about 10 seconds after the debuff wore off and it never stacked up. A couple of times I just waited to see if I could get two of em, didn't happen for me. All that a tank swap would then accomplish would be more even damage spreading - right?

Artog
01-26-2010, 08:10 AM
Well.
The description of BM says "100% of damage done to you is dealt to the linked source."
I interpret "100% of damage done to you" as the melee hits from the boss and any DoT ticking on the MT

But im not sure of this. Im gonna go search through some logs of the fight.

Sitar
01-26-2010, 09:09 AM
Aura damage is done to the linked source too, confirmed in our logs.

Arianne
01-26-2010, 12:50 PM
The MT takes the Shadow Shroud damage and the OT takes it from the MT and not from the aura. The only benefit to swapping tanks in 25 normal or 10 normal is that you can then have your current MT use his/her tanking cooldowns to reduce the incoming damage for both tanks.

Kazeyonoma
01-26-2010, 03:23 PM
Has anyone identified who she targets for first bite? from our attempts it always bit the same person first, so I'm guessing she always targets the highest damage done or dps person first?

Jamor
01-26-2010, 03:59 PM
We did tank swaps to take advantage of stoneshield pots and then taunted off to use cooldowns when we didn't have a pot up

Darksend
01-26-2010, 05:22 PM
Has anyone identified who she targets for first bite? from our attempts it always bit the same person first, so I'm guessing she always targets the highest damage done or dps person first?

99.9% confirmed it is top damage

aldarion
01-26-2010, 07:53 PM
Just a quick question and sorry if already been answered, but we were thinking of rolling 2 healers hear to max dps, was wandering is there anything to cause even more dmg if ranged and healers grp up to max dps time and remove pact of darkfallen quicker, or would the addtional dmg from twighligh bllodbolt be unhealable?

thanks in advance

Artog
01-27-2010, 04:09 AM
My guess is that the raidamage when a ranged and melee gets linked is to much, but thats more or less a guess. Feel free to try it out and then post here :D

LuchadorRex
01-27-2010, 02:41 PM
You're choosing the target by yourself (it should be a dps). You bite the player with the ability which will be on your "1" key, and it should be the only thing you can use at this time.



First off, this is a great video, thanks.

I wanted to get a bit more clarification on the Vampiric Bite ability. Since I don't use the standard Blizzard UI, I am wondering if this ability appears on a Possession bar like the abilities during the encounter with The Prophet Tharon'ja?

I'd really hate to get bite and then not be able to find the ability.

Thanks

Ifro
01-27-2010, 10:17 PM
Just a quick question and sorry if already been answered, but we were thinking of rolling 2 healers hear to max dps, was wandering is there anything to cause even more dmg if ranged and healers grp up to max dps time and remove pact of darkfallen quicker, or would the addtional dmg from twighligh bllodbolt be unhealable?

thanks in advance

My 10-man group has actually done it 2 weeks in a row with 2 healers. We have our Shadow Priest get bitten first so that the healing output from Vampiric Embrace helps reduce the healing load. It works quite well for us as we have had no problems with the fight thus far using this method.

odinonehorn
01-29-2010, 12:57 PM
My 10-man group has actually done it 2 weeks in a row with 2 healers. We have our Shadow Priest get bitten first so that the healing output from Vampiric Embrace helps reduce the healing load. It works quite well for us as we have had no problems with the fight thus far using this method.

thats actually a super awesome idea.

when we tried to 2 heal we had one healer doing 9k hps and one doing 8k hps and we still dropped hard. it wasnt an option to 2 heal it for us : /

Moozhe
01-30-2010, 04:17 PM
I have concluded the first bite target is chosen as follows:

Randomly picked of the top two on threat not including tanks.

This is based on my reviewing of my 15 or so Fraps videos of this fight, plus watching YouTube videos (including the Tankspot one) which all confirm this.

In Lore's video, for example, the mage is highest on threat, the warrior Krouton is 2nd. The warrior is bitten.

In Riot Act vs Blood Queen Lana'thel - Full Uncut (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HZQO6pQly4) it picks the hunter who is 1st on threat behind the MT.

In Blood-Queen Lana'thel (25) - Raiding Rainbows (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrRMae3dY0k) it picks the ret paladin who is 2nd on threat (not including the tank).

In Rush vs. Blood-Queen Lana'thel (25 man Normal Mode) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxfaAZvenbo) it picks the mage who seems to be tied with the hunter for 1st on threat.

All of my 15 Fraps videos support this as well.

I have yet to see evidence that shows otherwise.

We did have a healer get bitten once, during an attempt where we told our mage to go all out, and everyone else to basically stop DPS, just to see if it would bite him. It bit our healer because he was 2nd on threat behind the mage, since everyone else was basically holding off DPS.

The best way to use this information is to pick a ranged DPS and a melee DPS to pop cooldowns at the start. Ideally a DPS warrior and a hunter or mage. Pre-potting Potions of Speed is a very good choice as it lasts 15 seconds. Nobody else should pop cooldowns. They can secure the top 2 threat positions. If you're using a biting strategy where the ranged bites other ranged, and the melee bites other melee, than this is perfect it won't matter who gets bitten first. For example:

Attempt 1:

Warrior bitten first.

Warrior bites mage.

Warrior bites rogue.
Mage bites hunter.

Warrior bites DK.
Rogue bites feral druid.
Mage bites shadow priest.
Hunter bites warlock.

etc.

Attempt 2:

Mage bitten first.

Mage bites warrior.

Mage bites hunter.
Warrior bites rogue.

Mage bites shadow priest.
Hunter bites warlock.
Warrior bites DK.
Rogue bites feral druid.

etc.

So, as you can see, all the bites can be pre-planned, and while you can't secure whether the mage or the warrior gets bitten first, it won't matter because they're just going to bite the other next, and then follow their normal bite targets. So as long as you can keep them on top 2 threat (not including tanks) for the first 15 seconds, you don't have to switch bite targets mid-fight.

Del
01-31-2010, 12:06 PM
From everything we've seen in 25 mans, it appears that the bite has nothing to do with threat at all. It is the person that is top on damage when the bite occurs.

Moozhe
01-31-2010, 01:40 PM
From everything we've seen in 25 mans, it appears that the bite has nothing to do with threat at all. It is the person that is top on damage when the bite occurs.

The thread you are physically posting in links a video in the first post which shows the person who is 3rd on damage, and 2nd on threat (not including tanks) getting bitten first.

Achilliz
02-01-2010, 02:14 AM
99.9% confirmed it is top damage
Actually seems total random for us in 10 man last night. We had 6 attempts, many times it was the healer that took the first bite even though we wasn't even close on tank threat.
We actually tried to have only the lock dps until the first bite so we can guarantee he gets bitten, but it didn't seem to work.

Sitar
02-01-2010, 02:56 AM
Tested yesterday and it seems it's first damage done to lana'thel after the tanks at the pull. But it seems there is a minimum requirement. A hot ticking for 500 hp won't pull the bite for exemple, but successive ones without any damage done will.

We had our hunter shoot the first behind the tanks, he fd'd and had 0 tricks on him and still got the bite. Tested multiple times with different hunters. Worked 100%

Gorlab
02-01-2010, 06:58 AM
It is definitely threat based. We had a warrior going defensive stance on the pull get first bite most of the time last night despite being not at the top of dps. We also, in 10 man this week, had a resto shaman get first bite with 0 damage done but quite a bit of threat from early healing. I suspect it is the top threat outside of the tanks at some point in time before the bite is actually made but I am not sure exactly when.

Blacksen
02-01-2010, 09:42 AM
I've got two questions about this fight in the 25man:

1) Does anyone know what your DPS pace should be around the first air phase? We were getting the boss down to 60-65% here. We haven't even made it to an enrage yet, so I'm wondering where people think we *should* be at this point.

2) How on earth do you deal with the air phase? Our healing looked good with 6 healers. Our DPS looked pretty good getting her down very low. But whenever we hit an air phase, we seemed to be consistently losing 4-5 people. Also note that we have an extremely high number of melee dps, so that makes spreading out a bit harder for us.

Splug
02-01-2010, 12:17 PM
I've got two questions about this fight in the 25man:

1) Does anyone know what your DPS pace should be around the first air phase? We were getting the boss down to 60-65% here. We haven't even made it to an enrage yet, so I'm wondering where people think we *should* be at this point.

2) How on earth do you deal with the air phase? Our healing looked good with 6 healers. Our DPS looked pretty good getting her down very low. But whenever we hit an air phase, we seemed to be consistently losing 4-5 people. Also note that we have an extremely high number of melee dps, so that makes spreading out a bit harder for us.1) I don't have a number off the top of my head. I would assume Lore has a boss health bar visible in his video.

2)Be sure to get as many people in groups with tremor totem as possible; that will give you more time to spread out and react. Assign each raid group a general area to go to, splitting the melee into left/right halves. There is plenty of time to spread out once you're in your designated area, but if everyone just tries to pile up in the center, it's not going to end well.

Kazeyonoma
02-01-2010, 05:12 PM
btw, the MC isn't cc'able as far as my raid could tell yesterday.

Shortypop
02-02-2010, 04:14 AM
Something I wasn't expecting, I OT'ed this fight last night (25man) for several tries and my damage taken was from blood mirror and from "slash" which I thought was only on the MT (who never got a single tick), it never stacked but the addition of 10-15k initial hit plus tick was a little unexpected. I'd changed trinkets to pure stam because of the magic damage and was contemplating stacking some extra spell resistances but not sure if it's possible to gear for both bleed and magic damage. I saw random "absorb" values both on initial hit and dot, but I'm guessing that might have been due to healing procs - how do bleeds work?? I know the bleeds are minor in relation to the blood mirror (85%) of damage but was just wondering, also out of warrior and DK any preferences on soaker/tank?

Artog
02-02-2010, 12:28 PM
btw, the MC isn't cc'able as far as my raid could tell yesterday.

I always break mine with human racial (EMFHS) so it should be :)

Bnol
02-02-2010, 12:51 PM
btw, the MC isn't cc'able as far as my raid could tell yesterday.

I think he is saying that you can't use CCs on the person if they get mind controlled, although I thought I heard one of our raiders say they could stun, but polymorph, fear, etc don't work. But yes the fear she does is dispellable in every way you can get rid of a fear.

Echtellion
02-03-2010, 09:12 AM
Hi,

We went on Queen Lana'thel in 25 man last week and our consistant problem was a few people dying here and there in Phase 1 and when entering Phase 2 everyone got blown up instantly. It may be due to unefficient spreadin, I am aware of this. However, I was just wondering if anyone else had those issues. We have a 6 healer setup, 2 on tanks and 4 on raid, most raid healers pulling 7,5 to 9k HPS. Should we put only one holy pally on tanks with his beacon on OT and have them maximize defensive CDs and switch as often as possible, thus giving one making one more raid healer available? We generally use a warrior MT and Blood DK OT. Any help, advice and/or tips would be welcome.

Ech

Petninja
02-03-2010, 03:58 PM
Yay for Fibonacci strings!

Berzerker
02-08-2010, 09:13 AM
Yay for Fibonacci strings!
It's not a Fibonacci sequence, it's exponential growth.

Fib: 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, ....
Exp: 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, ...

If there was a 60 second "cooldown" between biting someone else and refreshing the essence, then it would end up as a Fib sequence. But that is neither here, nor there.

Coldbear
02-08-2010, 05:32 PM
pretty sure the part where it says she'll bite the highest non-tank threat is incorrect

plenty of people dispute this though.

Khaotik
02-09-2010, 09:43 AM
"This only lasts 50 seconds though and unless they bite another person after these 50 seconds are up, they will get mind-controlled by Lana'thel and must be killed."

Is there not the 10 second timer AFTER the 50 seconds to bite someone? If so then this statement is VERY misleading.

Could someone confirm/deny this 10 second timer after the 50 seconds is up?

Trexokor
02-16-2010, 05:56 AM
There is most certainly a timer after the essence time is up.

Essence in 25 man now lasts 60 seconds though, not 50, and in 25 man it lasts 75, not 60. I believe the timer is 15 seconds to bite someone, although it might be 10 in 25 man.

Some information for those in the past couple of posts:

- Bloodbolt has a very high resist rate. Typically your raiders will resist 50-75% of the damage with normal shadow resist up. However, the Bloodbolt Splash either uses normal resist rules or diminished resist rules (meaning it's a lot harder to resist it). I suspect this is done to punish people who don't spread out, but not punish by nature of randomness. For this reason, spreading out is *key* to the air phase and once you prevent Bloodbolt Splash issues, you'll see the damage taken during the air phase reduced drastically. She only shoots out 8 bolts every 2 seconds 3 times, which is 24 bolts total. In the worst case scenario, a raider with no heals the 6 seconds the Whirl is going out will take somewhere in the vicinity of 20-24k damage if they're hit by all 3 rounds of the Bloodbolts. This is relatively unlikely to happen, as they will probably get some heals *and* not get hit by all 3. With Paladin cooldowns up (Aura Mastery and Divine Guardian), the damage that goes out drops dramatically, but splashes will still kill people.

- Delirious Slash is meant to be on the off-tank, and you should not do tank switches. The off-tank will need a slight bit more healing than the main tank, but not by much.

- Blood Mirror damage is friendly fire and is not resistible. Shadow resist will not help.

- Blood Mirror damage is seemingly not reducible either. No Divine Protection, no Shield Wall, no Barkskin, nothing. Absorbs will work as normal damage absorption.


Our healing strategy for this has been 2 Holy Paladins, 3 Druids, and 1 Shaman so far and it has worked out very well. The tanks take decent damage but because of the spikey effects that go out in the encounter, we found that having 2 Paladins, one each to beacon the tanks (enough to cover the damage they take), let us keep these players a lot safer than if they were only covered by raid healers. This is one of those fights where a Paladin's extreme HL bomb (plus glyph splash) on a raider has very high effective healing if done correctly.

Belak
02-17-2010, 07:16 AM
Last night we been the Queen for the first time in 10 man, but with less than 5 seconds on the enrage timer. It was VERY tight. Our biggest problem was losing people on the 2nd air phase.

What is the correct way to handle this? I have yet to see a good answer. With the current timers, she will be airborne (and everyone needs to be spread out) right when 4 need to bite another 4. So you either spread out and get mind controlled or bite and die to splash damage.

Are we handling this wrong, or is that just a case of power through and pray the healers can keep most of the raid up?

Trexokor
02-20-2010, 11:59 AM
Last night we been the Queen for the first time in 10 man, but with less than 5 seconds on the enrage timer. It was VERY tight. Our biggest problem was losing people on the 2nd air phase.

What is the correct way to handle this? I have yet to see a good answer. With the current timers, she will be airborne (and everyone needs to be spread out) right when 4 need to bite another 4. So you either spread out and get mind controlled or bite and die to splash damage.

Are we handling this wrong, or is that just a case of power through and pray the healers can keep most of the raid up?

You actually are handling it wrong.

In 10 man, part of the strategy involves the first couple bites to be delayed until the last moment you're comfortable with. This usually means the first biter waits until there's 2-3 seconds left on the debuff before biting, and if you trust the second bitten person, both players do that again at the second round of bites. This should delay the need to bite someone again on the 4->8 transition enough that everyone is back in place as it comes up.

More commonly, delaying just the first one should work out to having the bite button pop up just as the bloodbolt whirl ends and you can bite in enough time as you're heading back to your spots.

If you're worried about the actual damage from the bloodbolt whirl, once you've solved the above it should fall into place. The direct damage from the bloodbolts is pitiful, but the splash damage is significant. Taking 0 splashes means survival is incredibly easy.

Blazii
02-21-2010, 11:03 AM
Reading this helped me understand it. I haven't done this fight and when you were talking about biting someone I wasn't sure if a bite action would appear or if Blizzard expected you to do a bite emote on a raid member.

:P

keebz
02-21-2010, 12:44 PM
Hey all,

After reading through the 4 pages (very useful info, thanks everyone), transcript, and watching the video, I have 3 questions regarding 10 man.

1. Supposedly, by the time 8 people have the Essence of the Blood Queen, she should be close to dying, i.e. another phase of Biting should not happen. If this is the case, it is a relief. However, my question is, can the people with Frenzied Bloodthirst bite the OT or MT so I can say beforehand that they should not do this. We don't want the MT or OT running around trying to find people (don't think the numbers would even add up).

2. I have also heard the fight has become much easier after the increase to Essence buff time and we now have 15 seconds to bite someone else before you get MC'd? You should still keep DPS'ing and wait until 3-4 seconds are left to bite a person?

3. What's the final verdict on being able to CC mind-controlled people? Can they just not be sheeped because they are now classified as Vampires/Undead, like how you can't sheep the trash in the Blood wing? Near the end when people start getting MC'd, is it better to have ranged DPS pull off the boss and kill those MC'd players or just focus on burning the boss? MC'd people have their damage and health increased, so they can be a problem?

We haven't attempted BQL yet, but these are just questions that I am unsure about and would like to be prepared for these scenarios. Also for anyone else thinking similar things.

Thanks and great job on the video once again.

Medley
02-22-2010, 08:31 AM
1. Supposedly, by the time 8 people have the Essence of the Blood Queen, she should be close to dying, i.e. another phase of Biting should not happen. If this is the case, it is a relief. However, my question is, can the people with Frenzied Bloodthirst bite the OT or MT so I can say beforehand that they should not do this. We don't want the MT or OT running around trying to find people (don't think the numbers would even add up).

The MT and OT are valid targets for Frenzied Bloodthirst, yes. However, they should not be bitten if it can be avoided at all. I would recommend they only be bitten as a last resort.


2. I have also heard the fight has become much easier after the increase to Essence buff time and we now have 15 seconds to bite someone else before you get MC'd? You should still keep DPS'ing and wait until 3-4 seconds are left to bite a person?

It's not possible to continue DPSing when you have Frenzied Bloodthirst - the only thing you can do at this point is bite another player, or be MC'd after 15 seconds. Some guilds choose to delay the first person biting the second by doing the bite at the last few seconds of the debuff so people can stay spread out during her air phase.


3. What's the final verdict on being able to CC mind-controlled people? Can they just not be sheeped because they are now classified as Vampires/Undead, like how you can't sheep the trash in the Blood wing? Near the end when people start getting MC'd, is it better to have ranged DPS pull off the boss and kill those MC'd players or just focus on burning the boss? MC'd people have their damage and health increased, so they can be a problem?

My recommendation is to not worry about dealing with people that are MC'd. If you are consistently running into this problem, the strategy needs to be re-addressed. When completing this encounter on both normal and hard modes, I can say that an MC'd player will likely mean a wipe to the enrage, as you lose significant DPS from any bites the player would have given.

Trexokor
02-22-2010, 06:41 PM
You'll actually run into the hard enrage before the 8->16 bite transition comes up in 10 man, so if you get an MC, someone screwed up.

The off-tank should be bitten in the 4->8 bite transition because they offer more DPS than the healers can. The main tank being bitten at this point is not a bad idea if healer threat is not out of hand. If you're having dps issues, biting the two tanks before healers is always better.

Dapeanut88
02-25-2010, 11:37 AM
You cannot bite other player's pets during this encounter.
Also, if you are dying to blood bolt whirls all the time this might help. Healers spread out just outside of the middle circle and perhaps even one player in the middle of the circle. Then ranged dps spread out along the back stairs area and then finally the melee dps and tanks can spread out on the front and side walls.
If biting people is your problem then this too might help. Have one person with raid debuffs showing on raid frames to call out to a person who has been bitten to bite another player and if that player cannot bite this player in time, bite a healer.

Palymcbeal
<Clockwork> on Aegwynn US PvP

sully501
02-26-2010, 11:13 AM
Just a couple quick notes I wanted to add.

-The video (25m) recommends biting a melee dps first so that she doesn't jump across the room and waste dps time. However, in our experience biting the top range dps is a better option, since they can dps her while she is in the air, and this more than makes up the difference in lost dps time.

-On 25m, as the raid leader you should make one tank/healer group, and then have 4 groups of dps to simplify the biting order (2 melee groups and 2 range groups). Put your top 4 dps as the group leaders, and those are the first 4 to get bit. Those people then bite the next person in their group, and this keeps everyone somewhat organized. Also, with 4 groups you can assign 4 "meeting spots," i.e. on the 4 sides of the circle in the center of the room. This is good in that it makes both the people biting and getting bit move to pre-assigned spots and lowers the amount of chaos going on.

Papapaint
03-01-2010, 04:44 AM
Just a couple quick notes I wanted to add.
-On 25m, as the raid leader you should make one tank/healer group, and then have 4 groups of dps to simplify the biting order (2 melee groups and 2 range groups). Put your top 4 dps as the group leaders, and those are the first 4 to get bit. Those people then bite the next person in their group, and this keeps everyone somewhat organized. Also, with 4 groups you can assign 4 "meeting spots," i.e. on the 4 sides of the circle in the center of the room. This is good in that it makes both the people biting and getting bit move to pre-assigned spots and lowers the amount of chaos going on.

Awesome idea.

Kiako
03-04-2010, 12:42 PM
What is the addon Lore is using with the icons showing in the middel of his/her screen showing the nxt atk that should be used?

Ty.

bling581
03-11-2010, 03:04 PM
My head is starting to hurt from reading all of these posts trying to figure out exactly how the bite works. I've gone over the replies to this thread and the threads in the ICC section, and also on the WoW forums. For all those that post it's solely damage done, explain how healers are being chosen. It "seems" to be threat based from what I can tell but it's not always the case, so something tells me there's more to it. If healers are being bitten it would be hard to imagine how they remained 1st or 2nd on threat behind the tanks after 15 seconds.

I'll have to review the logs for last night but every attempt it was either the same dps warrior (who was trying to get it 1st) or one of our 3 hunters. I'm starting to lean more towards damage done to a certain threshold or who first attacked the boss besides the tanks. I'm just theorizing at the moment and will go over the logs later, but it seems odd that it was a random one of our 3 hunters getting it and all of them were firing off MD's on the pull.

mav1234
03-11-2010, 05:16 PM
Does anyone know if ANY DR effects impact the Blood Mirror? Activated abilities don't, that much is clear. But if stances etc don't, it might be wise just to stick a DPS in a mix of tank and heal gear and have them be the "OT".

EDIT: On bite stuff...

I am pretty much positive it is chosen from a small group of people who are not the MT or Blood Mirror'd who are high on threat, not damage. We can usually forcei t onto our feral druid by having him go in in bear form (and watch his threat) and DPS. Other times, it pops onto the DPS below him instead. So, I think it is a bit random among the top two who are not the tank/offtank.

KnThrak
03-15-2010, 05:07 AM
My head is starting to hurt from reading all of these posts trying to figure out exactly how the bite works. I've gone over the replies to this thread and the threads in the ICC section, and also on the WoW forums. For all those that post it's solely damage done, explain how healers are being chosen. It "seems" to be threat based from what I can tell but it's not always the case, so something tells me there's more to it. If healers are being bitten it would be hard to imagine how they remained 1st or 2nd on threat behind the tanks after 15 seconds.

It is a rather simple mechanic:

She bites the #1 on Total produces Threat which is not a tank, and not linked to the tank.


This means:
1. Healing produces x0,5 Threat compared to Damage, so if a Healer does 2x as much Healing as the top DPSer did Damage, the healer will get bitten.
2. No -threat effect seems to work. We tried Mirror Image, Feign Death, Feint, Fade... she ignores such effects, threat only counts up for her.
3. Passive threat-reductions don't seem to work either. Rogue's inherent -20%, Cat Druid's -20%, -30% from Ele Shammy talent... I don't think they work, due to comparisons who she bit between healers with no -threat talent and DPSers with -threat talent.

So in short:
Take all damage done, take all healing done and half that. Sort the bars, whoever is highest and not a tank gets the initial bite.

spiderxd
03-23-2010, 06:08 AM
I think not and here the right place to ask this, more please can someone tell me how to let the interface / ui equal to the lore (paladin video 25 man) please! excuse anything and thank you!

MishaPie
04-01-2010, 02:26 PM
Just a quick question about an addon you are using, what addon in the middle of your UI is the onet automatically doing your rotation with one button? is that a super macro you have set up or a completely separate ret addon? Would like to know, great vid.

KnThrak
04-03-2010, 05:02 AM
Just a quick question about an addon you are using, what addon in the middle of your UI is the onet automatically doing your rotation with one button? is that a super macro you have set up or a completely separate ret addon? Would like to know, great vid.

That's Faceroller from what I can tell, it's on WoWinterface.

Faile420
04-06-2010, 10:56 AM
that addon in the middle of his screen is CLCret it only shows you what to hit next according to the rotation you configured. It doesn't actually activate the abilities. its good to have if your not sure how to approach a fight in terms of rotation. if you already know your stuff its not nearly as useful. I actually downloaded it and ended up deleting it because it was distracting me from my rotation ironically.

genderbnder
04-12-2010, 12:41 PM
Our guild is small and only runs 10 man raids. We downed the Queen this week for the first time using a 3 heal strat, but only 1 tank. Our paladin tank switched into his holy gear (using his prot belt, bracers and cloak for a little extra stam) so raid buffed he had approx. 36k hit points and about 26k armor. Beaconing himself he stood on the MT and soaked the blood mirror (hitting on average for 13k). With sacred sheild and improved righteous fury, the holy pally still took the least amount of damage than anyone in the raid for the whole fight. I would recommend this strat if you are finding it hard to 2 heal, and your dps is a little lower than needed to down her while 3 healing.

baygul
04-22-2010, 11:46 PM
What do tank do for this fight.

CatabriOnEarthen
04-23-2010, 04:30 AM
Tongue in cheek remark: She gets hit in the face a lot.

Splitterz
04-25-2010, 02:11 AM
sorry to post something unrelated, but ive always been interested what the addon that is being used for the rotation of the paladin in 25 man version. If someone could answer this, it would be greatly appreciated.

Asimaaris
04-28-2010, 05:39 AM
Before I even start let me apologize for typing this and creating these formulas while falling asleep. Im sure there are some flaws in the math. sorry.
This math is for 10 man:

4min = 240 seconds
5 dps + 2tanks (half of 1 dps) = 6dps (three healer)

240 - 15 sec (before bite) = 225 sec

225 sec/45sec(time between biting)= 5 bites (player biting player)

the Following formula will break down the value of each dps during the raid encounter. This will count the bite as 1
extra dps per full raid encounter. Since no bite will last the full encounter, it will adjust the bite value per its
duration:

1st dps:
Time bitten 3min 45s (3.75mins)
3.75mins/4min= 0.9375 = 93.75% of combat
total dps value: 1.9375 dps per engagement(i.e. the first dps will be worth 1.9375 dps)
2nd dps
Time bitten 3min
3min/4min= .75 = 75% of combat
total dps value: 1.75 dps per engagement
3rd dps
Time bitten 2min 15s (2.25min)
2.25min/4min= 0.5625 = 56.25% of combat
total dps value: 1.5625 dps per engagement
4th dps
Time bitten 1min 30s (1.5min)
1.5min/4min= 0.375 =37.5% of combat
total dps value: 1.375 dps per engagement
5th dps
Time bitten 45s (.75min)
0.75min/4min= 0.1875 = 18.75% of combat
total dps value: 1.1875 dps per engagement

If you are using 6 dps, the sixth dps will be bitten at the 4th minute mark. At this point you are on borrowed time and
it is of little value to calculate out the value of having him bitten. As such he will be counted as 1 dps for all
mathematical purposes.

The following formula will help you determine if your raids dps is high enough. This formula does not take into random
variable such someone dying prematurely or even something as small as someone just not critting like they usually do. This
is only a way to "guesstimate" if your dps is enough.

1st bitten's dps X 1.9375 + 2nd bitten's dps X 1.75 + 3rd Bitten's dps X 1.5625 + 4th Bitten's dps X 1.375 +
5th bitten's dps X 1.1875 + (sum of any dps not bitten in the encounter) + MT's dps + OT's DPS= raid dps

The blood queen requires a 58,350 raid dps to defeat before the 4min timer. Compare your raid dps to this target dps
to determine if you can beat her before the 4 min. While it is possible to beat her after 4 mins, the ideal is to not
reach the 4 minute mark.

Please tell me if my math is way off or my reasoning is wrong or if I have missed some aspect of the fight entirely.
Im doing this while falling asleep so I wont be surprised if there are mistakes.

edit: I cant recall her health. Im basing the raid dps required off the 14.2 mill someone above stated. If it's less it will be her health/240s.

TheScientist
04-28-2010, 05:55 AM
Have you been in the fight before ?
The first dps will be be bitten 15 seconds into the fight, keeping the buff for max 3min 45sec.
The 2nd dps will be be bitten about 55 seconds later, so keeping the buff for about 2min 50sec.
However, about 55 seconds later, BOTH of them will bite someone, so the 3rd AND the 4th dps will have the buff for about 1min 55sec.
Then last but not least, 55 seconds later, most other people will be bitten, giving your 5th and maybe 6th dps (we use 5 dps) to have the buff for about 1 min.
About 55 seconds later, the fight should be over.
Estimated times ofcourse. If I remember correctly it's 15 secs - buffed for 50 secs - max 10 seconds time to bite someone - buffed for 50 secs - max 10 seconds to bite someone - .. etc

If you have the dps to burn Professor in phase 3 in time, this fight shouldn't be a problem.

Also maybe it has been clarified but the mechanics works like this.
The MT will NEVER be bitten by BQL. The person that has the Blood Mirror should be the OT and also can NOT be bitten. The person highest on threat that isn't one of these will get the first bite. Howe"ver someone posted a few posts ago that this is total threat done on her. Anyways don't hold back on dps just to "fix" who gets it. If you coördinate well on vent/chat, determining the bite order is easy. You have 50 seconds remember? :p
Also info I didn't see anywhere : When your 50 seconds of imbaness are over and you have to bite someone, your action bar is wiped and you are left with 1 attack, Bite someone. To bite someone, TARGET someone then press 1 and done. Imbaness returns.

Asimaaris
04-28-2010, 06:19 PM
Yeah, I know its 50 secs before you bite. Like I said, was falling asleep as I was writing it. Just Finished tanking ICC actually. As for the biting, I know it never hits MT. I was stating the theoretical event in which you could end up biting the MT (just like the video did) after you have bitten your way through everyone else. Also, to be honest, I have never had to be bitten or bite anyone. Ive only tanked this far into ICC. My dps classes have only complete 7/12 and my healers have only do lower spire. As I said before was falling asleep. Sorry about misinformation. I swear to write before ICC not after from now on lol.

Kurious
04-29-2010, 01:48 AM
I read that every dps needs 11, almost 12k dps during this fight to manage getting him down. This was without taking the people that get into vampire form into consideration. I still need to add that 12k dps? How do I get this, I play a boomkin and got maximum 8k dps single target (boss) in icecrown citadel. My character has over 5500 gearscore, equiped with the best boomkin talents I've managed to find for raiding, and best glyphs etc..

TheScientist
04-29-2010, 02:10 AM
Asimaaris: it's ok mate, np ;-) But doing the fight as a tank just would mean you have time to watch the mechanics. At least I do when tanking. Anyways..

Using what Asimaaris tried to do, I get to : (a = the damage coming from 1 dps)
1.94a+ 1.71a + 1.48a + 1.48a + 1.25a + MT + OT = total raid dps. Assuming MT + OT = 1 dps we get total raid dps = 8.86a. 58350 dps / 8,86 = 6586 dps.
This is all just a rough estimate, but as you can see, if you about 6.6k dps on a regular boss, you SHOULD be able to down this boss within the enrage timer.
Remember that you should get your best dps bitten as soon as possible, making this equation incorrect becasue here I assumed everyone had the same dps.
Imo don't worry about the dps requirements, worry about the fear and coordinating the biting targets.
The high dps numbers you see is what you will get when bitten first tho. I was up to 14k (was targetted a lot by those shadows) and higher is certainly normal.
Also if you have a shaman, wait till after almost everyone is bitten for heroism/bloodlust.

Banterloft
05-05-2010, 11:38 AM
I read that every dps needs 11, almost 12k dps during this fight to manage getting him down. This was without taking the people that get into vampire form into consideration. I still need to add that 12k dps? How do I get this, I play a boomkin and got maximum 8k dps single target (boss) in icecrown citadel. My character has over 5500 gearscore, equiped with the best boomkin talents I've managed to find for raiding, and best glyphs etc..

Here is your easy way to think about it. If your group downed Putricide then you can down the Queen. If you do a consistant 8K dps on raid bosses then if you are bitten first you will be doing somewhere around 15 to 16k for most of the fight. See how it works. It actually works out pretty well. The only time we had issues with DPS was our first attempt and we had our top two dps stand their ground and two melee's bite the tanks as soon as the button came up. The added dps boost for that couple of seconds downed her.

Kurious
05-11-2010, 12:14 AM
Oh, Okey. So if we just make sure to get our top dps's bitten first we will down her?

Banterloft
05-11-2010, 08:45 AM
We downed her with a diffrent group last night and we had to pull a diffrent strat. We have a VERY hard hitting ret pally however we had our hunter get it first and bite our mage. This did drop our initial dps however the ranged could put some mad damage down range while she was airborne. They collapsed, bit the retadin and the shaman and we popped hero at that point. It was easy-sause.

Quick note for ya. Have your tanks keep her up on the stage and have melee dps stand on the stairs. When shadows are on you (farting purple fire), have the melee run right or left and follow the wall. This makes their run alittle farther but it ensures that people meeting in the middle don't have to run thru the flames and if melee is looking to bite a melee runner then they know where they are going.

Platetank-123
05-23-2010, 12:53 PM
Hey Tankspot.
In some of the videos there are a girl speaking and i find it harder du use the videos when she is speaking, so maybe u could send a video out where she is not speaking? :D

skillez
05-28-2010, 08:45 AM
Hi, Lore could you please tell me the name of the addon your using for your rotation?

skillez
05-31-2010, 08:37 AM
Could anyone please tell me the name of his rotation addon if you know the name? :)

fluhlej
06-01-2010, 10:24 AM
Here are my calculations for DPS on this fight.

------ NOTE: if you want a quick calc you can take the raid DPS and multiply by ~1.46 to get the DPS with buff. OR you can take the raid DPS and multiply by ~352 to get the total damage after buffs) ---

I made an excel spread sheet which allows for modification easily. Note I am assuming a 4 minute fight, I assume the first bite occurs after 15 second and that the target will dps for 60 seconds and transfer the bite at 70seconds so there is 10seconds of down time (as a note the total damage is nearly the same even if this occurs as 50secs dps and xfer at 60).


Encounter time in minutes: 4
Bite Time in seconds: 70
buff time: 60
lost dps time per bite: -10

I assume 5 dps and that the tank+OT count as 1 dps (note that the tank will only have bite for ~10.8sec, and that I assumed they would both have bite even though I display them as one, in this case healers would not get bite)

I also made the calculation assuming all the dps is equal so the math is more transparent.

Char Avg DPS _buff time Fight % __DPS x ___DPS __Damage __lost time _Fighting time _Actual Damage
1 ____5500 ____ 3.75 ___94% ___ 1.94 ___10.6k _ 2.557mil __-30 ______3.50 ________2,237,813
2 ____5500 ____2.89 ___72% ____1.72 ___9.4k __ 2.274mil __-20 ______3.67 ________2,085,089
3 ____5500 ____2.04 ___51% ____1.51 ___8.3k __ 1.991mil __-10 ______3.83 ________1,908,795
4 ____5500 ____2.04 ___51% ____1.51 ___8.3k __ 1.991mil __-10 ______3.83 ________1,908,795
5 ____5500 ____1.18 ___29% ____1.29 ___7.1k __ 1.708mil __ 0 _______ 4 __________1,708,929
6 ____5500 ____1.18 ___29% ____1.29 ___7.1k __ 1.708mil __ 0 _______ 4 __________1,708,929
Raid _33000 ___________________1.54 ___50.9k _12.233mil __-11.7 ____3.81 _______11,638,884

I would like to note that the dps lost during the down time is minimal but it makes a difference so if your shy of a boss kill by ~200k consider your timing.


Some results from adjusted timing based on delayed bites.
Bite delay == 0 Total damage == 11.7mil
Bite delay == 6 Total damage == 11.7mil
Bite delay == 14 Total damage == 11.5mil

encase i got the total duration incorrect -- the following assume you can dps for 50seconds and must bite by 60 seconds
Bite delay == 0 Total damage == 10.9mil
Bite delay == 10 Total damage == 11.2mil

------ NOTE: if you want a quick calc you can take the raid DPS and multiply by ~1.46 to get the DPS with buff. OR you can take the raid DPS and multiply by ~352 to get the total damage after buffs) ---


GL out there...

Daimon
06-18-2010, 08:26 AM
Idk if this math has holes but putting some time on it this is what I came out with, any mistake pls point it.
Facts/Assumption:
1- The fight has 5min enrage timer (330sec)
2- Every air phase last 6secs, there are 2 of those, so is a lost of 12secs of melee DPS)
3- Assuming everybody does sustained 9000 DPS
4- Vampires do 100% extra dmg, so that's double, lets assume they will effectively double their dmg/dps.
5- Queen bites at 15sec sharp.
6- Only the 1st vampire waits 5secs to bite the 1st time, then the rest bites are ASAP.
7- Raid setup of 2 tanks, 7 healers, 16 DPS.

1- (0 to 15sec) vamp#1 will do (9k x 15sec= 135k dmg) then (18k x 315sec = 5,670,000 dmg) total = 5,805,000
2- (75sec to 85sec) vamp#1 must bite vamp#2, lets say he waits 5secs, then: (80secs x 9k = 720,000 dmg as non vamp, and 250sec x 18k= 4,500,000 as vamp) for a total: 5,220,000
3- vamp3 and 4: 140sec x 9k + 190sec x 18k, total= 3,420,000 each, grand total of 9,360,000
4- vamps5, 6, 7 8: 200secs x 9k + 130secs x 18k = 4,140,000 each , grand total of 16,560,000
5- vamp 9 to 16: 260 secs x 9k + 70secs x 18k = 3,600,000 each, grand total of 28,800,000

the total dmg in that fight done is: 65,745,000, now remember the air phases? lets take that time of melee dps, assuming we have 50-50 range/melee
the 1st fear comes at 2min = 120secs, so only 1 vampire in melee will be affected (assuming we split bites as, melee to melee and range to range); and the 2nd air/fear phase is at 4min = 240sec, with 8 vampires, so 4 of them melee. We lose 1 vamp + 7 non vamp in the 1st and 4 vamps and 4 non vamps in the 2nd:
18k x 6sec + (9k x 6secs) x 7 = 486,000 dmg lost in the 1st
(18k x 6sec + 9k x 6sec) x 4 = 648,000 dmg lost in the 2nd, for a total of 1,134,000 lost dmg

Roughly doing 9k by every dps class in that fight we will do approximately 64,6mill, and that's more than the boss HP. Now what you should see in recount is:
vampires DPS
1 17.500~
2 15.600~
3 13.800~
4 13.800~
5 12000~
6 12000~
7 12000~
8 12000~
9 10.200~
10 from 9 to 16 is the same more or less

I didn't count:
1- Fear and reposition time (which is range dps loss)
2- Reaction time to bite, nor finding your player to bite either.
3- That math was done assuming the bites are split, so melee bites melee and range bites range.
4- Pact/Swarming Shadows DPS loss.

Xiola
06-19-2010, 11:17 AM
Could anyone please tell me the name of his rotation addon if you know the name? :)

Perhaps better asked in his UI thread?
However, it's CLCret. http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/clcret.aspx

nightlbaze
06-29-2010, 08:53 AM
I saw that in the center of your screen, there was a button that was being clicked, it had the main abilities of a retribution paladin. Could you tell me what addon that is, along with the few boxes that have paragon and the other trinket and a few abilities.

Shadowknigt
07-10-2010, 02:32 AM
Could anyone say which addon he uses to show achievements? he gets one in the end of the movie.¨
I chose to ask that question here instead of in the UI thread cause this is the only place i have seen that addon.

Thanks.

Ğazed
07-20-2010, 06:45 AM
Lore i had a question i noticed u were Retibution in that 25 man encounter could i get a list of ur add ons if possible i like the one with the icons the best and think it would suit my play style

Kazeyonoma
07-20-2010, 10:38 AM
Dazed, there is a UI forum here, in it is a UI Compilation subforum, IN THAT are threads to almost every video author's UI thread.

Fireflight
08-12-2010, 10:47 AM
If people are having trouble finding their bite targets (this is more of a problem in 25 especially in the melee pack behind the boss), you can use the jewelcrafting focusing lens, with turns you in the direction of your target. You can focus your bite target ahead of time and when you need to bite, simply click your focus and use the focusing lens.

This helped tremendously when my guild was having trouble with bite targets.

doomskull
08-26-2010, 12:10 AM
Disclaimer: I have not done the encounter yet.

That said, my understanding is that Lana'thel will bite one person during the encounter and will not bite again so long as the debuff is present on someone. She will bite another person if the debuff is not present in the raid.
if all players in a raid with the debuff die say the first person to be bit dies when bit due to bad timing bql will not bite any other players
and the attempt will end in a wipe when bql hits her enrage timer if not sooner