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Ciderhelm
01-20-2010, 03:31 AM
You can find a guide to the heroic version of this encounter here (http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?63801-Icecrown-Blood-Princes-Hard)!

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Ability Descriptions (Courtesy Darksend)

Shock Vortex: targets a random raid member, which can include casting it on the tank tanking Valanar, and summons a vortex under them. The vortex will deal damage and knock back anyone inside it. This vortex has a similar graphic to that of a power spark puddle in the malygos encounter.

Shadow Lance: Keleseth's main ability, standard shadowbolt spell, ranged tank preferred.

Conjure Flame: Summons a Flame orb on a random ranged raid member that explodes when it reaches them. Since the raid should be spread out already this can safely be allowed to detonate on the person and just healed up quickly afterward.

Glittering sparks: An ability used by Taldaram. He will turn and randomly cast glittering sparks on the raid. This will deal about 4K damage every 2 seconds but also slow the movement speed of everyone hit by it. It is a magic effect and since it is a cone effect it is easy to predict who it will hit. We had one of our priests assigned to MD that area.

Dark Nucleus: Similar to collapsing stars, these orbs tick out over time. The warlock tank must always be watching how much hp the nucleus has left and be ready to grab new ones, especially during empowered lances.



Welcome back to the icecrown raid guide, my name is darksend and in this video I will be covering our strategy for the blood prince council, the first boss in the crimson hall.

If you'd like more information or would like to learn more about downloading this movie, click "more info" on the movie information box on YouTube to head directly to TankSpot! Also, be sure to subscribe by clicking the Subscribe button to the right to be automatically notified as we release new movies. Finally, TankSpot Donors can download all of these movies in High Definition directly from our servers -- click the second link in the movie information box to learn more about this service!

The Blood Prince encounter is not your typical council mechanic. Of the three princes, Valanar, keleseth, and taldaram, only valanar will have any health at the begining of the pull. Attacking either of the other two will not actually contribute to defeating the encounter. This is because of the invocation of blood. This ability both marks the target you need to actively be killing as well as empowering that prince.

Every prince has one ability that can be empowered. For valanar it is shock vortex, for taldaram it conjured flame, and for keleseth it is shadow lance.

Shock vortex will target a random raid member and cast a vortex on the ground under them. As a ranged Dps or healer try to position yourself so there is never one directly between yourself and taldaram, I will discuss why in a moment.

The empowered shock vortex summons a vortex on every raid member within 30 yards. Because of this ranged and healers need to be either spread out or more than 30 yards away from him. melee need to begin running out as soon as it begins casting. Make sure to not all run out the same way and have people run out to different distances to ensure they do not blow each other up. This version of the ability does not persist on the ground like the normal version.

The empowered flame has stacks that must be siphoned off. Once it picks a target have that person begin running away from the raid while everyone else stacks underneath the orb. It will flare everyone within 10 yards for 1K damage a second. This flare is what removes the stacks from the orb. Once enough flares have gone off the orb detonating will do non-empowered damage. Should a full strength orb go off it will instantly kill everyone within 15 yards. This is why you do not want a vortex between you and taldaram, as the raid will not be able to follow the orb through the vortex and it will hit you at full strength.

Keleseth never melees but instead spams shadow lance the entire fight Because of this we use a warlock to tank him We found it easiest to just have the lock prepositioned in the back of the room and have keleseth mded to him. Keleseth also summons orbs called dark nucleus. These adds will channel a debuff on the highest agro target called shadow resonance. It will deal minor periodic damage but will reduce all shadow damage taken by the person by 35%, and it stacks. This is how you cancel out the empower. To be safe our warlock tank tried to always have 3 of them on him but usually he had more. The catch is they tick themselves out similar to colapsing stars on algalon.

The final ability in this encounter is the kinetic bomb. These bombs will float around the room, and at times there will be multiple up at once. If they hit the ground they will explode and knock back everyone in the room a decent distance. To keep them from hitting the ground simply hit it with some form of direct damage and it will fly back up. They will eventually despawn after a short time of being juggled. we had a ranged with assist marking each one to help people keep track of which one they were assigned.

When valanar gets emopowered the second time, he almost immediatly started casting empowered vortex. Make sure your melee are away as we wiped on a previous attempt to several melee getting blown up at the exact same point as in this video. The reason for that is that the old empower does not stop casting when the invocation switches, and we had both an empowered flame orb and an empowered shock vortex go out at the same time.

Thanks for watching this movie! As always, feel free to ask questions or add suggestions either on YouTube or in the strategy thread on TankSpot.com.


Hello and welcome to the TankSpot Icecrown Citadel Raid Guide! My name is Aliena and in this video I'll cover everything you need to know about the normal mode 10-man version of the Blood Prince Council encounter.

You're faced with 3 opponents in this fight that all share the same health pool. However, you can only damage one of the Princes at any given time. Who this is changes periodically but will always be visible by the red blood-ball surrounding one prince that indicates the Invocation of Blood buff which makes them more powerful but also vulnerable.

We used a setup of 2 tanks, 1 ranged warlock tank and 3 healers to counter the princes, but other setups may work just as well or even better for your raid team.

Prince Valanar is a kinetic element type of enemy whose main ability is Shock Vortex that turns into Empowered Shock Vortex when he is invocated. His cup also runneth over a lot. Shock Vortex creates a white swirling ball on the ground that'll knock back enemies within 13 yards of it and also deal about 6000 damage, but it can easily be avoided after it has been cast.

Empowered Shock Vortex on the other hand will inflict damage to all enemies within 30 yards, but also makes every raid member within 12 yards of one another take additional damage depending on how many people are close and also knocks them back. So pay close attention to whether Valanar casts empowered or normal Shock Vortex and make sure to be spread out if it's Empowered Vortex. Valanar is always the first prince to get empowered.

The other ability he has is Kinetic Bomb which is just a beach ball hovering in the air that drifts towards the ground unless it is consistently damage. When it hits the ground it inflicts raid wide damage with a knockback, so make sure to keep it afloat.


Prince Keleseth is the shadow element prince we used our warlock tank for. He'll consistently cast Shadow Lance at whoever is tanking him, which hits for about 16000 damage without resists. To counteract this, your Keleseth tank needs to pick up the Dark Nuclei that spawn periodically throughout the fight.

Our lock said he just cast Corruption on them to get them to follow him, but either way you always aim to pick up at least three of them. Each of them will decrease your shadow damage taken by 35% and this buff stacks, but it also makes you take some minor consistent damage. When Keleseth gets invocated, he'll cast empowered shadow lance, which hits for about 80k, so you see why you want to keep at least three balls around you at any given time. They disappear after a certain amount of time, so don't stop collecting. Gotta catch em all!

Taldaram is the Fire element prince. He'll consistently cast Glittering Sparks which is a frontal cone ability that deals about 14k damage and slows movement speed of anyone getting hit. Ideally this should just be his tank.

More importantly, Taldaram's main ability is Conjure Flame which summons a flame ball wherever he's currently standing that will then float over to a random raid member and deal some damage to its target and anyone nearby when it hits.

When the fire prince gets Invocation of Blood however, the flame he conjures turns into an Inferno Flame - much bigger than the normal one - and also picks a target and floats over to it. The more people that get hit by this ball while it's traveling to its target, the smaller it gets and less damage it will inflict when it reaches it. However, it'll always cause at least 10k AoE damage, so no one should be near the target after weakening the flame. He will cast this frequently while empowered.

As long as you have the raid awareness to deal with Shock Vortexes and Inferno Flames and your Keleseth tank is competent at picking up purple balls, the Blood Prince council shouldn't cause you much trouble. Coordination and awareness go a long way on this fight.

Good luck!

Thank you for watching this movie. As always, feel free to ask questions or add suggestions either on YouTube or in the strategy thread on TankSpot.com. Also, TankSpot Donors can download all of these movies in High Definition directly from our servers -- so if you'd like to learn more about that, just click the second link in the movie information box!

Darksend
01-20-2010, 04:41 AM
A few things to note that were omitted due to the short duration of the fight.

Heroism/Bloodlust is best used when Keleseth is empowered. This is because on both of the other bosses you are constantly moving out of his special ability (either vortex or flame orb). Threat may be an issue if Keleseth is the second empower so make sure to feed as many misdirects and tricks into the warlock tank as possible.

For reference, we were calling the front of the room where the bosses start and the back of the room the area by the door.

We used 5 healers, 2 resto druids and a holy priest for raid healing and a paladin with beacon and a disc priest healing the 3 tanks. Aside from empowered Keleseth the warlock tank does not need much healing as long as he or she is good with the orbs. You can see my damage taken through the video and I can honestly say I am not sure how much damage the Taldaram tank takes.

When I said
Keleseth never melees It was originally
As long as you do not run into melee range of him, Keleseth never melees but was lost in editing.


When valanar gets emopowered the second time, he almost immediatly started casting empowered vortex. Make sure your melee are away as we wiped on a previous attempt to several melee getting blown up at the exact same point as in this video. The reason for that is that the old empower does not stop casting when the invocation switches, and we had both an empowered flame orb and an empowered shock vortex go out at the same time.

-Rewind the video to 3 minutes 1 second to see the event I am referencing.

Finally, I apologize for the amount of info that needs to be added in text due to the short nature of the encounter.

omegti
01-20-2010, 04:53 AM
I lol'd at the emopowered remark. Don't know if this is intended or not but I'm sticking with this term from now on.

Darksend
01-20-2010, 04:59 AM
we got an issue on our 10 men, keleseth start to do his empowered shadow lance after 5 or 10 sec after pull. So our range tank die, because we only got 1 dark nucleus when he start doing his special ability. Any suggestion ?

I have yet to try this in 10 man but are you sure it is the empowered. I have never seen the invocation jump until Valanar had cast 2 empowered vortexes so either it is a bug or your healers just need to step it up, or you are grossly exaggerating that 5 or 10 second remark.


I lol'd at the emopowered remark. Don't know if this is intended or not but I'm sticking with this term from now on.

now that IS! a convenient typo isn't it.

ivp008
01-20-2010, 05:01 AM
Is it me or is this guide a bit chaotic and hard to follow?

Feels like frapsed first kill with wowiki commentary not really stickily tied together. It is nowhere near the quality of the old tankspot's guides.

It might be the first one published on the web but I am sure it will not be the best one

(sorry about being blunt)

Baervar
01-20-2010, 06:21 AM
How crucial is it to avoid a single vortex thing (i.e. will you die from only one normal one/empowered one)?
How about the flame orbs? Do the non-empowered ones damage anyone in the way, or do they just go after their target and blow up? Do they do less damage the further you are from them?
As for the empowered flame orbs - from what i'm seeing you need to kite them as per normal with the addendum that people need to stack under it so it damages then and thus decreasing the damage done when it hits the target (and size?).
More details on the flame abilities would be appreciated really, maybe a clarification on the vortex as well :P Otherwise a good job, albeit a bit rushed maybe, but i really appreciate you guys staying up late and actually putting effort into recording this stuff just for us europeans to have an earlier insight on it :)

Darksend
01-20-2010, 06:29 AM
How crucial is it to avoid a single vortex thing (i.e. will you die from only one normal one/empowered one)?

Well each person takes 5K damage from the empowered and then hits everyone for 5K.

So 3 ranged stacked on each other as they run out each taking 5K, then 2 people will hit you for another 5K each, so 3 melee stacked will be 15K damage to all 3 of them. That is the empowered.

The normal just had a really nasty kick. When I say knock away I mean it will punt you as much as 30 yards. Probably one of the longest distance knock aways in the game.



How about the flame orbs? Do the non-empowered ones damage anyone in the way, or do they just go after their target and blow up? Do they do less damage the further you are from them?
As for the empowered flame orbs - from what i'm seeing you need to kite them as per normal with the addendum that people need to stack under it so it damages then and thus decreasing the damage done when it hits the target (and size?).Nope, normal ones just blow up for a set damage on the person.

The empowered yes that is correct the raid takes small hits of damage to prevent the person from being blown up. From what we saw this slowed the orb as well, but that could just be speculation.

Ciderhelm
01-20-2010, 07:14 AM
Per the criticism -- as we've been doing for every encounter since Trial, we'll be putting a second movie in. It should be available in a few hours and it may be easier to follow for you.

I know Darksend struggled with editing this movie because the encounter is extremely short compared to the amount of information needed. I recommended he cut sections and put them in a written section (what you see above) so we didn't just have 2-3 minutes of black space on the movie. It's rough, and we'll tune it better in the future.

Do keep in mind that speed is very important to us and you can easily look back at a large number of movies over the last year where we've added addendums and entirely new perspectives on the encounter if we felt the first iteration needed to be expanded on. If the second movie does not satisfy what we're looking for in terms of covering what you need to know for the 25-man as well, we'll look at doing this.

Please keep continued comments on the topic of the Blood Princes encounter.

//edit: We'll be adding the original audio file in an audio player here as well. This is much longer than the length of the video and should sound much smoother. Again, probably a couple hours before I can reasonably get this in, so stay tuned!

Zartanchi
01-20-2010, 09:20 AM
Are warlocks an absolute or can you subsitute another, high agroing range to do the job?

Xuthal
01-20-2010, 09:25 AM
10-man video and guide coming soon? Thanks as always!

Xu

erlhen
01-20-2010, 10:33 AM
I have yet to try this in 10 man but are you sure it is the empowered. I have never seen the invocation jump until Valanar had cast 2 empowered vortexes so either it is a bug or your healers just need to step it up, or you are grossly exaggerating that 5 or 10 second remark.



now that IS! a convenient typo isn't it.


nah isnt exaggerating, i just realise this morning, our range dps, was not really in range.
Every time he died, but when i saw that i realise he was hit by a melee strike

Ciderhelm
01-20-2010, 11:51 AM
10-man movie up!

mezmurders
01-20-2010, 11:59 AM
I have a quick question about this fight in 10man mode. Our guilds 10man group doesnt run with a warlock, so im wondering if there is another range class that can take the shadowbolts. I'm thinking a mage with mage armor, and shadow resist aura could potentially be enough to hold agroo, yet still take an amount of dmg. which is healable.

Any thoughts?

Arianne
01-20-2010, 12:35 PM
I would imagine that anyone who has a sufficient amount of HP would be fine as long as they have enough nuclei on them.

I tanked 10m Keleseth last night (prot paladin) and there are three arguments for having a ranged tank him 1) no melee damage 2) easier to run around and get the nuclei 3) melee cleave attacks will hurt the nuclei (heart strike, etc). In addition, getting hit by shock vortexes sometimes seemed to reset the nuclei lock and they would follow the highest threat person (usually a healer). I would guess that things like blink or demonic circle could also cause a reset of threat on at least one of the nuclei.

Personally my threat was fine on Keleseth because I meleed him at the start for a bit and then you can use Judgement, AS, and HoW (yes, HoW is available) when he does not have the invocation. I'll also say that there seemed to be something funky going on with the nuclei response to HoR (they may be not tauntable and therefore not take damage from HoR) - immediately after taunting it aggro'd to a healer, but I didn't get a chance to look at my combat log for the information (will do so later when I get home).

I would recommend that the ranged tank aim to get 4 nuclei at all times because it is highly likely that you will either get hit by a vortex and lose one or have one die at an inopportune time that would then result in dying to empowered shock lance.

Daimon
01-20-2010, 01:08 PM
when you say:

When I said
Keleseth never melees

It was originally
As long as you do not run into melee range of him, Keleseth never melees

how should I interpret this:
1- Melee dps stay away from him? only range dps
2- The lock tank will lose aggro to any1 in melee or
3- He will keep the aggro but the boss will random cleave some1 in melee.
Clearify pls.

Darksend
01-20-2010, 01:14 PM
The boss will melee swing the warlock tank and kill him if the warlock gets to close.

squats
01-20-2010, 01:18 PM
The boss will melee swing the warlock tank and kill him if the warlock gets to close.

IDK. Hes pretty smart. Decided what he was doing wasnt effective a few times and ran at range up to him and killed em' dead.

Also, if you are assigned to dps the orb, dont attack it to fast. It CAN fly up to high and aggro blood queen and will wipe you.

Lakshata
01-20-2010, 02:46 PM
for the 10-man tank, Is Soul link Necessarry, or just a large amount of health, Deciding if I should respec to my affliction PvP spec for this fight.

Badmonkey.eu
01-20-2010, 03:10 PM
Any idea of using an other class to tank than a warlock?
In our 10 Man there simply is no one and I wonder if its possible with a shadow for example?

yefferton
01-20-2010, 03:38 PM
Any idea of using an other class to tank than a warlock?
In our 10 Man there simply is no one and I wonder if its possible with a shadow for example?

I tanked this in our 10 man as a hunter. I did use an HP flask and wore PvP gear to get my hp to 30k buffed. The most dangerous moments were on the pull as you have no orbs active yet (we actually had the Valanar tank hold him until the orbs spawned) and during his empowerment. 4 or more orbs is safe as losing an orb during empowerment and having the range tank die will be a definite wipe.

Tahriel
01-20-2010, 04:21 PM
We just did this encounter in 10man this evening.

Our ranged tank was a Hunter, since we could reliably build threat and moving around the room while still being able to keep the threat coming was useful. (That and we didn't have a warlock).

However we seemed to hit a few brick walls, with our hunter having sometimes 5 of the nucleus on him and he still got one shot with a 31k Shadow Lance.

We had this happen on not only the Hunter, but i tried tanking it as a Shadow priest and we had our Elemental Shaman try tanking him once, but we all still got 1 shot. After a couple more tries and a GM turning up and changing us all in to Pirates (That was pretty fun, one of our members reported encounter bugged and a GM tried giving us luck with pirate costumes). We then gave it another attempt and we didn't get unlucky with a one shot.

We ended up doing it, but this is still the first fight in Icecrown we have 3 healed, and even with 3 healers we felt it was quite hectic to heal.

Anyone else notices their ranged tank being one shot by Shadow Lance?

/Tahriel

Solidor
01-20-2010, 08:23 PM
I tanked Keleseth as a warlock. I was assigned range tanking so I prepared myself with 2 stamina trinkets (from the brewfest event) and the 3 parts of the Glacial Set (cause it has much much stamina). I had something about 29k unbuffed. In our first try I was wearing my normal stuff, no stamina equipment, I gained the initial aggro with 2-3 Searing Pains and then I started my normal Destro Rotation on him, the first Nucleis was popping up then and I castet CoA on it. I did a mistake in the first try, I was casting the highest level of CoA which can kill these nucleis very fast, and the first Shadow Lances from Keleseth were hitting me hard. We wiped cause one of our healers died. In the second try I equipped all my stamina gear and I activated "show nameplates" so targeting the dark nucleis becomes easier and sometimes you can't target them properly when a healer has aggroed (studid word) them. Everything worked fine here and I gave the healers much more room for healing me, since we had only 2 healers. I think when you have 3 Healers you can overcome equipping any stamina gear or spec, but I don't really think its that much needed, when you gained some stacks of these nucleis you get very very little to no damage. One of the easiest encounters I've seen so far, just get along with the abilities of the princes and their empowered versions and thats it. Our healers really did a great job, so did the rest I think.

Out Setup:
Paladin Tank
Druid Tank
Warlock (Destruction with survivability talents and some gear, but optional)
Arcane Mage
Rogue
Enhancer Shaman
Elemental Shaman
Ret Paladin
Resto Druid
Holy Paladin.

mav1234
01-20-2010, 10:17 PM
We found that using a DK tank on Kelseth trivialized tanking him, since even with 2 orbs the empowered bolts didn't hit that hard (it could be that I had the unholy damage reduction, AMZ, and AMS available too. >.>)... Plus, Icy Touch made picking up orbs pretty easy. Threat on him was at times an issue, but I'd let my healers know, and I'd run in and Blood Strike him twice to generate UnholY Runes so that I could Icy Touch more. XD

We also lacked hunters for misdirects, or my threat wouldn't ahve been an issue. Not sure if anyone was even really close to pull off me either.

Solidor
01-20-2010, 10:29 PM
We are gonna do 25-man today, and from what I have read so far a DK for Keleseth sounds good too. Gonna try it myself first (Warlock), from reading the comments, the encounter in 25-man is pretty much the same besides more dmg etc. Queen Lana'thel in 10-man wasn't as hard as Putricide, besides Putricide is funnier with all the farting and crazy shit he is talking about!

Hamburglar
01-20-2010, 10:43 PM
I just tried this on 10 man and I've never been so frustrated. The damage is the same if not more than 25 and our Keleseth tank was getting randomly nuked. We tried a warlock and he was getting crushed even with 3 nuclei. We then tried a DK with 40k unbuffed and he was getting hit by 20k bolts with 3-4 nuclei on him. 75% of our attempts had Keleseth picked second and there 3 nuclei had not even spawned yet. This would mean 25-35k bolts which killed the lock tank and the healers couldn't keep the DK up.

gundecker
01-21-2010, 02:27 AM
I tried this the other night and was tanking the fire prince. I got a question about his abilities...

For glittering sparks, the guide says that ideally, only the tank should be hit by this ability. However, it says that he targets a random player and casts the ability in a frontal cone. Going through my combat logs, several people were hit by the glittering sparks but I wasn't. They thought I might've had a problem holding threat but I was the only one on him until he became empowered. So am I the only one that should be getting hit by them or is it inevitable that someone else in the group is going to take damage from this ability?

Also, I noticed that melee swings on the the fire prince rose from around 3-6k upwards of like 10-15k before becoming empowered. Is there some sort of buff that he gets that increases damage? I don't remember all the details from my combat log but it seemed like the fire prince got a buff, lost it, and then regained it.

gundecker
01-21-2010, 02:30 AM
Also, approximately how long does each boss remain empowered for??? Or is there a percentage of their shared health pool, i.e., 10% of health pool reduced and then switch, etc.?

proudmoore
01-21-2010, 02:55 AM
The Glittering Sparks appears to act rather like Rotface's Slime Spray - he'll choose a random target (which may, but probably won't, be the tank), and do his Conal attack in their direction, then back to the tank. Particularly when melee is clustered on him, Mass Dispel is your friend.

I'm still a little unclear on why everyone is recommending a caster to tank Keleseth (since I for one welcome a fight that will use all three tanks that seem to be expected in a 25-man). In our attempts last night, we tried both Boomkin and teddy tank, and had much more luck with the teddy. The one issue I can see arriving is AoE effects jumping from the boss to the tank's Nuclei. However, if you're alternating between building threat and gathering Nuclei, it means you have a tank with 50-60k health instead of 25-30 - who can also survive a melee swing if necessary.

Am I missing something?

Scrilz
01-21-2010, 06:34 AM
Anyone else have the bood queen join the fight with you. This happened to us two times lastnight. At around 2 mins in the Blood queen would activate and come down and join the fight. Here is the WOL from one of the tries.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-nny6ovbbqow98mbh/dashboard/?s=11032&e=11197)

Zikkar
01-21-2010, 07:20 AM
Anyone else have the bood queen join the fight with you. This happened to us two times lastnight. At around 2 mins in the Blood queen would activate and come down and join the fight. Here is the WOL from one of the tries.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-nny6ovbbqow98mbh/dashboard/?s=11032&e=11197)



Someone a bit further up mentioned that if you let the "beach ball" go to high in the air it will aggro the Blood Queen and she will pay you an early visit.

Zikkar
01-21-2010, 07:22 AM
We just did this encounter in 10man this evening.

Our ranged tank was a Hunter, since we could reliably build threat and moving around the room while still being able to keep the threat coming was useful. (That and we didn't have a warlock).

However we seemed to hit a few brick walls, with our hunter having sometimes 5 of the nucleus on him and he still got one shot with a 31k Shadow Lance.

We had this happen on not only the Hunter, but i tried tanking it as a Shadow priest and we had our Elemental Shaman try tanking him once, but we all still got 1 shot. After a couple more tries and a GM turning up and changing us all in to Pirates (That was pretty fun, one of our members reported encounter bugged and a GM tried giving us luck with pirate costumes). We then gave it another attempt and we didn't get unlucky with a one shot.

We ended up doing it, but this is still the first fight in Icecrown we have 3 healed, and even with 3 healers we felt it was quite hectic to heal.

Anyone else notices their ranged tank being one shot by Shadow Lance?

/Tahriel


It did seem that something was up (read possible randomly bugged) with the shadow lances as our Lock tank would be fine and have 3-4 orbs on him then all of a sudden go down to a massive Shadow Lance in one shot even with 3-4 orbs on him.

Tahriel
01-21-2010, 08:23 AM
It did seem that something was up (read possible randomly bugged) with the shadow lances as our Lock tank would be fine and have 3-4 orbs on him then all of a sudden go down to a massive Shadow Lance in one shot even with 3-4 orbs on him.

I'm guessing there may be a bug, the GM that came to the raid last night didn't want to say if the encounter was bugged or not.

In all honesty, i'd expect there to be some Nerfs on the Princes fight. Not that i feel it's a fight that's overly hard, it just seems like its quite a bit tougher than anything we've had yet.

/Tahriel

Hamburglar
01-21-2010, 08:52 AM
The most maddening thing is having Keleseth get empowered before or just as a 3rd nucleus spawns and the tank getting one shot.

Stymie
01-21-2010, 09:04 AM
The most maddening thing is having Keleseth get empowered before or just as a 3rd nucleus spawns and the tank getting one shot.

We defaulted to having a healer CD go on our Warlock range tank if Keleseth got the second Empower. We had a Disc priest and holy pally available. The second the red orb transfered to Keleseth, we'd just put up Pain Suppression. There is a small delay of 2 seconds or so where the orb is traveling over and connects where you know it'll be Keleseth, but he's not empowered yet. It was just too dicey trying to risk healing through big burst if the Nuclei hadn't spawned just right.

Timecks
01-21-2010, 10:09 AM
In 25m we tried the warlock tanking Keleseth a couple times, then someone found a Youtube with the DK tanking him instead. It seemed to go smoother... we tried BL on Keleseth, but ppl were complaining about being threat capped, so we changed it to when DPS was on Taldaram.

In 10m we tried the warlock again, with the DK on Valanar, and me (Pally) on Taldaram. One of the tanks was just getting nuked at the start from bad pulls, and on one pull where the DK died early, I just picked up Valanar and Taldaram and the healers kept me up until other ppl start dying so we wiped it up.

So we switched it up and put the DK back on Keleseth and had me grab Val and Tal from the start. I'd try to keep my back to the East or West so when I would get knocked back I wouldn't fly to the back of the dias, thus OOR of the healers. We ended up losing the raid healer to an empowered flame, so the other two healers were able to keep us up for the kill.

We also had one attempt where the Beach Ball went too high and pulled BQL, costing us 1 attempt on her.

Another note about the Beach Ball, Shadow Priests are horrible at keeping it airborne, MF and all the dots are ignored, so MB and SWDeath, both long cooldowns, were his only options... so the warlock did it instead

Liquidska
01-21-2010, 10:30 AM
I figured DoT's would be ignored, I assumed it would only bounce back up from spells that have "boom" to them. Not really sure how to quantify that, any confirmation on Lighting Bolt, Lavablast, Earthshock? Or any other spell that we know doesn't work?

dcwarcraft
01-21-2010, 11:42 AM
Killed this today. I'll post some thoughts although some of this was posted before.

1. Swapping targets QUICKLY is essential

2. There will be 3 Kenetic Balls out at one time. We used Physical DPS pets to control them. (Hunter Pet or Warlock Fel Hunter). Allowing one of these to hit the ground is bad so it should be #1 priority when they spawn.

3. We tanked the bosses very close to where they spawn. Healers and Ranged should be on the side of the bosses closest to the door. This allows melee to fan out on the "stage" when the Empowered Shock Vortex goes off. Assign spots for them to run to.

4. We had 3 Hunters, and we used all 3 to MD Prince Keleseth to the Warlock Tank. This gave him plenty of aggro on it at the start and allowed him more freedom to run around and pickup Dark Nucleus as they spawn.

5. Kiting the flame ball helps so run from it.

GOOD LUCK ALL!

Akeber
01-21-2010, 11:47 AM
Got a 25 man kill last night. We used a warior tank for Keleseth, the larger health pool of a real tank makes keeping him up easier. The down side of this is threat, your DPS will likely be threat capped when he becomes the kill tarket if the tank is spending all his time running around to pick up the nuclei. Our solution was to have our resto druid run around and pick up a nucleus or two and bring them over to the tank who'd peel them off of him, he had 4+ nuclei on him at all times. We then ended up with the warrior not having to move as much, although he did spend a lot of time at range as the melee damage is significant and unecessary if he has enough of a threat lead.

For healing the two other tanks, we used a pally with beacon on me (Valanar tank) and spamming the druid (Taldaram tank). The paladin ended up parking himself against the wall with the druid to be well out of range of any knock backs that would interrupt healing. Beacon has a 60 yard range so it allowed me to keep Valanar a good distance away.

Lastly, we used two hunter pets on the beach balls. The pet wil just stand under the ball and patiently wait for it to get close to the ground, as soon as it's in melee range the pet hits it and up it goes. It is a little scary watching the balls get so close to the ground, but it works. The only issue that arises is that there are sometimes three out for a very short window of time, make sure your're watching for it. Have your hunters make focus pet attack macros with a raid icon marking script so they know what two are taken care of, the third will be the unmarked one.

In the long term, I can see the benefits of having a ranged tank on Keleseth, like no melee damage, and can more easliy build threat on the move, especially if it's a DOT class. However, for learning the fight, the larger health pool of a "real" tank allowed for a margin of error.

Lindentree
01-21-2010, 12:49 PM
Any word on whether Spell Reflect works on Keleneth's shadow bolts?

Quinafoi
01-21-2010, 01:38 PM
Any word on whether Spell Reflect works on Keleneth's shadow bolts?

Sorry, no freebie 70k damage.

Fayre
01-21-2010, 05:10 PM
Neither the non-empowered or empowered version of Shadow Lance could be spell reflected when I tanked him tonight.

Honda
01-21-2010, 11:21 PM
As said before unholy dk's make tanking Kel trivial. As for the threat problems, lead off with dnd, and place it every time it's up. IT him whenever possible. Use AMS at the start of the pull and AMZ during empowers. Then army for another. As for getting the nuclei, simple DC's and IT's seemed to do the trick. I think at one time I had 7 on me.

Holywraith
01-22-2010, 05:36 PM
We did this last night (10 man)

We attempted it with a ranged tank 1st a Mage and 2nd a SP didnt go so well for us, a bit of a threat issue as our dps have a tendancy to be agro hungry also the damage tick wasn't great when overlapping the Dark Nucleus to make sure the third one didnt drop off in the empowered stage. We scrapped the ranged tank idea and we had our Warrior tank Prince Valanar and our DK Tank the other two as long as the DK tank didnt sit in the vortex healing was easy, with this set-up it was very strait foward.

We 3 healed 1 holy priest, resto shammy and a holy pally - there was lots of mana to spare at the end.

In short no range tank required.

blejs
01-22-2010, 06:19 PM
We tried with warlock and shadowpriest as tanks in 10man, but we ended up going with having a prot warrior tanking Kelseet instaid. And druid was tanking the 2 melee.

We found this alot easier and almost downed it at first attempt doing it like this, just put vigilance on a healer or so. And make sure you get initial aggro, then just charge,intercept orbs and collect em while you keep threat up on boss.

Was so much easier.

odinonehorn
01-24-2010, 06:52 AM
my guild ran it with 1 pally tank taking the fire and static princes and a lock taking the shadow prince.

we used 4 healers. and got the achievement.

it was a little umm...unconventional? but it worked really well. smooth, if long, fight.

Zellviren
01-24-2010, 05:33 PM
Not sure what the problem with ranged tanking is, really. I've appended a video of our guild's kill for it, using a hunter as the ranged tank. No special gear, no special buffs - just generally understanding how the mechanic works and making the right choices at the right times (bar once).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnH5tUgWCdo

Brutus
01-25-2010, 08:01 AM
Offtopic:
Sry if it has been asked before but can you pls tell me what addons/pack is Aliena using ?
I really like the clean interface she has.

Timecks
01-25-2010, 12:20 PM
Offtopic:
Sry if it has been asked before but can you pls tell me what addons/pack is Aliena using ?
I really like the clean interface she has.
She has it bundled up (http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info13762-AlienasInterfacePack.html) on Wowinterface.

gundecker
01-26-2010, 02:48 AM
I'm having trouble understanding the mechanics behind an empowered shock vortex. I understand that for a normal shock vortex, move out of the white vortex that spawns for a split second under neath your feet. But when there's an empowered one, what exactly happens? How do you determine if there will be one near you? More importantly, what am I looking for when raiding?

gundecker
01-26-2010, 03:36 AM
Also, while tanking Taldaram, I was occasionally taking 18-27k melee swings. Was this because I had my back turned to him or does Taldaram gain some sort of damage buff when he goes empowered???

agranyoch
01-26-2010, 04:29 AM
I'm having trouble understanding the mechanics behind an empowered shock vortex. I understand that for a normal shock vortex, move out of the white vortex that spawns for a split second under neath your feet. But when there's an empowered one, what exactly happens? How do you determine if there will be one near you? More importantly, what am I looking for when raiding?
Empowered Shock Vortex works like this:

When the 4.5sec (?) cast of Empowered Shock Vortex ends, every player within 30 yards of Valanar receives damage from this ability. If on top of that (being in the 30 yard range) you are close to another player, you will get damage from THEIR shock vortex as well and get knocked back. Empowered Shock Vortex is not stationary, "placed on the ground" like the normal version of it, instead it originates from the player itself.

So think of it like this: if you spread out (12 yards apart I think) when he casts this, you will receive 7k damage. If you fail to spread out and are in range of, say, 2 other players, you would take 7k from your own vortex plus 2 x 7k damage from the other 2 players, adding up to 21k damage and knocking you back. So, whenever he starts to cast the empowered version, you make sure you are either more than 30 yards away from Valanar or are not within 12 yards of another player.

Gellor
01-26-2010, 10:25 AM
Killed Blood Princes on 25 man on Sunday evening. Used 2 tanks, had a pally Tank Keleseth, whilst we had a warrior tank (me) tank both Taldaram and Valanar. Worked worked a treat. Anyone else tried this? According to WoL i was only taking 7.7k DPS.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-senmhahy3xn1p65z/sum/damageTaken/?s=5277&e=5585

Honda
01-27-2010, 03:05 PM
Killed Blood Princes on 25 man on Sunday evening. Used 2 tanks, had a pally Tank Keleseth, whilst we had a warrior tank (me) tank both Taldaram and Valanar. Worked worked a treat. Anyone else tried this? According to WoL i was only taking 7.7k DPS.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-senmhahy3xn1p65z/sum/damageTaken/?s=5277&e=5585

Hi Gellor! Say hello to Mikah for me.

I mentioned before about using a UH DK for this fight to tank Kel, here is a WOL
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/soejwephctd6l526/sum/damageTaken/?s=8452&e=8848

Gemdon
01-28-2010, 09:48 PM
Is there away I can get to know the addon used in the video please

Darksend
01-29-2010, 06:38 PM
Yes there is, it is called reading the UI forum.

http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?56344-TankSpot-Video-User-Interfaces (http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?56344-TankSpot-Video-User-Interfaces)

Olat
01-29-2010, 09:50 PM
In a 10man setting a warlock is not needed. My Guild has done pretty well using a Shadow priest. The easiest way is to just have them cast SW:P or a low dmg spell on each nuclei. As long as they have 4-5 Nuclei on them they are pretty much immune to any dmg Keleseth throws out.

As per 25m we downed the Council only after an hr of attempts. We had issues with Kinetic Bombs killing the raid. We also used a different strategy for tanking Keleseth.

Our two hunters were doing less DPS then normal and due to this I decided to make our hunters be the Kinetic bomb jugglers. in 25m You can have any where from 1 - 4 Bombs up at a time. Each Hunter used his pet for the first two Kinetic Bombs giving them some time to DPS the Boss. When the third and fourth kinetic bomb came out, we let our hunters just unload a few shots on the bombs to raise it up again. After the kinetic bomb's were dealt with this fight was really just based on Melee running away from Empowered Shock Vortex.

Also the tanking strategy we used was varied from Tankspots guide. We had a Paladin tank on Keleseth. Reason being: More HP and easier to heal, Higher Threat then a DPS Class, Righetous Fury, Consecrate to keep the nuclei on him. Reckoning, Shiled toss, Judgements, all abilities he used to pull the Nuclei from Range onto him. Once there he would drop Consencrate and the Orbs would never leave. His higher health also meant he could grab 4-5 at all times and never be taking so much dmg it was hard to heal. At anytime the Blood Invocate went on Keleseth, we called out for a Tricks onto the Pally so that at no time could he ever possibly lose agro since he was not spending alot of time building threat on Keleseth but more worried about always keeping 4 orbs or more on him.

Another quick note, Im not sure if it was posted here or not but one of my raiders pasted some text about Keleseth which stated: Due to the fact that all the boses are infact wearing cloth, they do get hit harder then most bosses by the raiders. Also ontop of that when Keleseth is Empowered with the Blood Invocate he is constanting spamming Shadow Lance.Even Further, When Keleseth is casting a spell he can not Dodge, Block, or Parry any attacks. Due to the above reasoning Blood Lust / Herosim is best used when Invocation of Blood is on Keleseth. Give your melee a few seconds to get onto him and then Bloodlust. This gives you a good 30 Secs to knock out a HUGE chunk of life as EVERY attack will land guaranteed as long as your raiders are hit capped.

Jecked
01-30-2010, 12:08 PM
We just downed 10 man last night. We had me a warr tank grab both fire and vortex guy sorry not sure about names. Then we had a dk tank grab the shadow one and just run him around picking up his obs. The tank on both will need to rotate cd and some cds from healers. The two adds where hiting me for 10 to 20k so it wasnt to bad with cd rolling. This start also free's up another dps which is nice.

We downed him on 4th try.

cykomsg
01-30-2010, 07:45 PM
I was wondering if you could re-release these videos with someone that can speak up a little DANG UR QUIET!!

Torturer
02-02-2010, 05:45 AM
our guild is using a dk to tank it, it seems also fine :P since he got more hp.

pyktis
02-10-2010, 05:14 PM
All TS movies are amazing but Darksend's are the best, simply because talking clearly and straight, telling exactly what has to be done and after watching movie encounter looks much easier! Hello Ciderhelm you r not nr1 anymore ;) *Thumbs up tankspot*

Furio
02-11-2010, 01:05 PM
I generally run the 10 and 25 man modes the same way. 1 Tank on both melee bosses, 1 range tank on Kel. Every melee and range sets in place their scatter locations and lock it down as we hit the Vortex fight portion. Melee then hit the chase portion and the X runs like hell. We blow heroism on the 2nd or 3rd rotation of the range tanks target depending on current threat levels. We managed to down it in less than three full rotations last night with a single death due to a empowered vortex and empowered fireball hitting within about 8seconds and a missed Orb hitting the ground. We do plus up to 8 heals with the other tank swapping roles on this fight.

Elysian
02-11-2010, 03:03 PM
We follow a tank for each, and this has worked for us fine. We have had a DK tank be the range tank and also have had hunters, warlocks, and I believe even a mage, do just fine at range tanking. There never seems to be a threat issue - probably due to the fact tanks get solo face time with their boss when it is not active. On 25 man we use 7 healers I do believe. I could be wrong on that and we use less.

Farfetch
02-13-2010, 03:00 PM
Hey guys, thanks for all the great videos and commentaries, they are really helpful.

My question here is related to the ranged tanking and an issue we seem to have that a couple of others have mentioned, namely the ranged tank getting killed for silly damage. I was tanking on my lock, initially in normal gear / spec, went to pvp gear then switched to demo spec, soul link with voidwalker, glyph of voidwalker, pvp gear, 2 brewfest trinkets, guru elixir pot etc. I was on around 37k hp. When tanking I had 4 of the nuclei on me and had up to 6 on a couple of attempts. However, my combat logs all show, as soon as he gets empowered, he was 1 shotting me doing lances that were over 40k hits (with 10,000 or so absorbed). Has anyone got any ideas to get around this or is it a bug of sorts? Would it be better to simply tank it with a proper tank (though given we are raiding casuals, can't rely on say a well geared DK for every time)?

Quinafoi
02-15-2010, 10:29 AM
Hey guys, thanks for all the great videos and commentaries, they are really helpful.

My question here is related to the ranged tanking and an issue we seem to have that a couple of others have mentioned, namely the ranged tank getting killed for silly damage. I was tanking on my lock, initially in normal gear / spec, went to pvp gear then switched to demo spec, soul link with voidwalker, glyph of voidwalker, pvp gear, 2 brewfest trinkets, guru elixir pot etc. I was on around 37k hp. When tanking I had 4 of the nuclei on me and had up to 6 on a couple of attempts. However, my combat logs all show, as soon as he gets empowered, he was 1 shotting me doing lances that were over 40k hits (with 10,000 or so absorbed). Has anyone got any ideas to get around this or is it a bug of sorts? Would it be better to simply tank it with a proper tank (though given we are raiding casuals, can't rely on say a well geared DK for every time)?

I'd recommend going to the Halp! forums and posting a link to the logs in question. Because what you are saying isn't functionally possible. If you had 4 on you, that's 82% damage reduction so the type of damage you are taking is closer to 350% expected, I can't even think any kind of damage applification that could result in an increase that high. If you want advice in this case you'll have to post a log parse and ask someone else to try and find what is wrong. Use the Halp! forums because it doesn't really pretain to the strategy itself. The strategy works.

I think it's more likely you are dying to a different boss mechanic rather than the Shadow Lance, remember, they still finish their last empowered cast before it switches.

Farfetch
02-20-2010, 05:42 AM
Thank you for the response, as I said, I looked in my combat logs and it said that I was hit for around 40,000 damage (around 4k over kill) with 10,000 absorbed - that is why I asked if there was any known bug here as I believe on 10 man the empowered lance is 78-82k damage and orbs offer 35% reduction multiplying.

Next time we go it may well be using 2 physical tanks but if I do off tank again I will grab screen shots of the logs as I don't have any way of recording them. The strat is fine in theory but if there is an issue with the fight then it's worth raising I think as there are other people in this topic who have said the same thing - ref post #21 by Tahriel (hunter tank with 5 orbs getting 1 shotted); post #25 by Hamburglar (lock tank dying with 3 orbs); #31 by Zikkar (lock tank with 3-4 orbs one shotted)

Quinafoi
02-20-2010, 11:25 AM
Thank you for the response, as I said, I looked in my combat logs and it said that I was hit for around 40,000 damage (around 4k over kill) with 10,000 absorbed - that is why I asked if there was any known bug here as I believe on 10 man the empowered lance is 78-82k damage and orbs offer 35% reduction multiplying.

Next time we go it may well be using 2 physical tanks but if I do off tank again I will grab screen shots of the logs as I don't have any way of recording them. The strat is fine in theory but if there is an issue with the fight then it's worth raising I think as there are other people in this topic who have said the same thing - ref post #21 by Tahriel (hunter tank with 5 orbs getting 1 shotted); post #25 by Hamburglar (lock tank dying with 3 orbs); #31 by Zikkar (lock tank with 3-4 orbs one shotted)

Most likely the person claiming to have more dark nuclei on them is wrong. Also simply having aggro from them doesn't mean they are channeling the debuff on you, it could take anywhere up to like 7 seconds or so for the thing just to move over to you before it starts channeling. Look at the last tick of damage caused by one of them. Look at the last tick of damage caused by one of them before the 40k hit. Then compare that to the first tick of damage. If those values are close to equal (this is shadow damage as well) then that means they only had 1 dark nucleus on them when they took the 40k hit. It does 1000 shadow damage per tick, litterally, if you look at the size of the tick that is the percentage of damage they take from empowered shadow lance. If it's 650 damage, that's 1000 -35%, or just one dark nucleus.

That is more likely the key to the problem. A lot of people saying they have x number of dark nuclei are often lying (in denial) or don't know how the mechanics work. Until the thing starts channeling, it's not benefiting you at all. You have to pay attention to your debuffs and you can see it in the combat logs. Many people posting this also don't have logs to support their claim.

Can you show me a log where 5 dark nuclei = 11.6% shadow damage taken. Show me the combat log parse where someone has dark nuclei channeling on them for around 116 damage, yet gets hit by empowered shadow lance for 40k.

#21 = no combat logs provided
#25 = no combat logs provided, also references slow spawn rate at start which Blizzard did put in a hotfix for so there would be enough dark nuclei feasible to tank before it could switch
#31 = no combat logs provided

Without combat logs... saying "I had 5 dark nuclei" is great and all, but the combat log would say "Dark Nucleus deals 116 damage to JoePlayer" from the channeled effect. That says he's only taking 11.6% damage, and that says he has 5 dark nuclei on them... (1.00 - 0.35) ^ 5 = 0.116

I'm not saying people are lying. I'm saying, please provide the evidence (video, combat logs, ect) that support the claim that the mechanic is bugged.

Arvandor
02-20-2010, 06:41 PM
I don't know how many of you know, or if it's been said, but one of our 10-man groups discovered what I feel is a pretty slick trick.

Because of the way the healthbars work on this fight, you can MD + Killshot Keleseth to the appropriate character right off the bat. That gives the Keleseth tank a SIGNIFICANT threat lead from GCD 1.

bluey111
02-24-2010, 08:52 PM
With me being a warlock, i was wondering if shadow ward can help at all while tanking keleseth?

Kurtov
03-03-2010, 01:16 AM
Does anybody know what Glittering Sparks looks like? I've not seen any reference to it in any videos, or any obvious cone ability performed by Taldaram.

Quinafoi
03-03-2010, 09:08 AM
Does anybody know what Glittering Sparks looks like? I've not seen any reference to it in any videos, or any obvious cone ability performed by Taldaram.

It's not a highly visible ability... it's not a giant fireball flying at your head for sure. Seeing it is something not required for the encounter since two thirds of the time you're not even looking at that boss. The important thing it for dispellers to clense the debuff off people (and dps clensers that can help do this will make the healers happier). I really wouldn't worry about looking for it (there isn't much of a graphic anyway other than the boss may turn), you can't dodge it or anything like say Slime Spray on Rotface, the ability is instant. Just clense the debuff when you see it.

Kurtov
03-05-2010, 02:10 AM
I really wouldn't worry about looking for it (there isn't much of a graphic anyway other than the boss may turn), you can't dodge it or anything like say Slime Spray on Rotface, the ability is instant. Just clense the debuff when you see it.

Good to know, thanks.

Stern
03-14-2010, 10:05 AM
Hello! I am in a casual 10 man guild and we haven't managed to down Blood Princes mainly due to lack of time (we generally do about 2-3 hours). We tried 2 tanking the melee bosses and having a warlock on Keleseth at first but he kept dying whenever Keleseth got empowered.

So I looked around at some various strats and forums and it seemed like having 2 normal tanks (one for the two melee bosses, one for keleseth) was a fairly successful strat.

I'm a pally tank, and I usually assign myself to off-tanking because I'm pretty quick at picking up adds and keeping good threat on multiple targets. However I am having some real issues while tanking Keleseth, I'm having to run all over the place to pick up the nuclei, and half the time they seem to just ignore me and wander off to a healer instead. Then when Keleseth becomes empowered I lose aggro and our DPS dies. I have 2 questions:

1. Is there a trick to picking up the nuclei without spending too much time on them while not building boss threat? Is a judgement or a shield of righteousness enough (or even the damage from hand of reckoning?) to pick it up and then focus back on the boss?

2. Should I try and avoid damaging the nuclei once I've picked them up so that they don't die too fast and I have to pick up more? Or do they die fairly quickly by themselves regardless of my damage. My problem is that trying to keep at least 3 on me while keeping threat on Keleseth, one of them always dies and I'm running around looking for another.

Thanks for any tips/replies!

Quinafoi
03-14-2010, 12:02 PM
1. Is there a trick to picking up the nuclei without spending too much time on them while not building boss threat? Is a judgement or a shield of righteousness enough (or even the damage from hand of reckoning?) to pick it up and then focus back on the boss?

2. Should I try and avoid damaging the nuclei once I've picked them up so that they don't die too fast and I have to pick up more? Or do they die fairly quickly by themselves regardless of my damage. My problem is that trying to keep at least 3 on me while keeping threat on Keleseth, one of them always dies and I'm running around looking for another.

Thanks for any tips/replies!

You are failing to understand how their threat functions. Once you have threat, unless another player acts on the Dark Nuclei, you will not lose threat. They assign threat to the last unit to act on it. Hit it once and it should never leave you provided people are targeting them and intentionally taking them off or hitting them with AoE mechanics.

And no, there really is nothing else for you to do but to be running around picking up Dark Nuclei. Over half your time on this fight will be spent rounding them up and relatively little time actually spent on the boss itself. Your top priority is survival, this encounter is not a DPS race, it's about proper execution.

Stern
03-14-2010, 12:40 PM
Thank you for your response! :)

So there should be no healer aggro on the Nuclei at all? It spawns, attaches itself to the closest person, I hit it with 'anything' and it'll stay on me for the rest of the fight provided there's no aoe hits on it?

My other question remains, should I try and avoid hitting the Nuclei with AoE's, to prevent them from dying quickly? Or do they die on a pretty much set timer?

Quinafoi
03-14-2010, 05:44 PM
The Dark Nuclei die relatively fast on their own so if you can avoid causing excess damage to them that is helpful. You shouldn't have to do anything like downranking abilities (when applicable) but you shouldn't be applying unnecessary damage to them either. It's more important that you survive, and the key to your survival is the Dark Nuclei. If you die, the boss starts chain one shotting the raid before anyone else could pick up enough Nuclei to effectively tank him. Not all AoE abilities will hit the Dark Nuclei either. Cleaves for example will, however a balance druid using Starfall will not instantly pull them all off you and cause a wipe. You should avoid attacks that will hit them (like a cleave) when possible.

Stern
03-17-2010, 07:47 AM
If anybody knows a good video that shows a normal tank (preferably pally) tanking Keleseth I would really appreciate a link to it.

-Stern

Lindentree
03-19-2010, 08:20 PM
Hallo,

I was researching Princes a bit (having been out of the loop, between raids until recently) and found this blue tidbit on wowwiki (http://www.wowwiki.com/Blood_Prince_Council#Patches_and_Hotfixes):


Prince Keleseth will no longer melee players. So if you get knocked into Keleseth or happen to move by him, he won't swipe in between his casts and kill a non-tank.I found the wording of this ambiguous - has he just stopped cleaving, or has he stopped meleeing altogether - i.e., is it still a bad idea for a tank to get in melee range of him?

If not, seems like a warrior would be absolutely perfect for Kele.

Kauket
03-22-2010, 08:48 AM
For the unholy DKs tanking Keleseth, are you using a DPS spec and gear, DPS spec and tank gear, or tank gear and spec?

Edit: expanding on my question. I'd guessed, as Arianne says below, that tank gear would be helpful just to stack stamina if nothing else. But would a purely DPS spec like http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jfVMMZZfM0Ixcdg0ux0uIqo:LsbMmV work, or are talents like Magic Suppression (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=49224) and Anti-Magic Zone (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=51052) necessary?

Edit2: To answer the question, the 3.3.3 unholy sub-frost reapingless DPS spec (http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight#flc-n68QFeGyqM,HpF,11599) did okay tanking Kel last night. Magic Suppression (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=49224) and Anti-Magic Zone (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=51052) would definitely have helped as there was a close call in Kel's first empowered phase then an "oh god I can't see any green in my health bar" call in the 2nd empowered phase. I did put on my mighty tanking (a.k.a the crap the real tanks didn't want) set for an impressive almost 43k health buffed (well, it was more than the warlock had). Aggo at least was solid, again not unexpectedly better than the warlock. If we don't mix it up again next time, I'm going to test out my Blood DPS spec, which should be more survivable than Unholy DPS.

Arianne
03-22-2010, 11:53 AM
Keleseth no longer melees at all.

Given that you spend most of your time running around collecting orbs, I doubt it'll be helpful to have DPS gear on though if you find that your threat is very bad you can try with some high health DPS gear.

Every so often we have a prince fight where, for no particular reason it seems, the empowered orb smashes into melee and kills them all. This sometimes happens when he targets a priest, but has happened at other times as well where the target change can't have been caused by mirror images or fade or anything. We have plenty of ranged DPS (and healers). Does anyone have any insight on why this might happen?

Tygragaris
04-13-2010, 10:27 PM
Every so often we have a prince fight where, for no particular reason it seems, the empowered orb smashes into melee and kills them all. This sometimes happens when he targets a priest, but has happened at other times as well where the target change can't have been caused by mirror images or fade or anything. We have plenty of ranged DPS (and healers). Does anyone have any insight on why this might happen?

Our guild had this happen last week. We run with a druid tanking Keleseth and myself (warrior) tanking both Valanar and Taldaram. There was one attempt where I was targetted point blank with the empowered orb and was hit for 50k.

Is he supposed to cast this at melee? I've not seen any strategies for this fight mention anything about melee having to run away from him when he starts casting to avoid getting pwned by fire if they happen to win the lottery.

Quinafoi
04-14-2010, 07:46 AM
The list of valid targets seems to be generated at the start of his cast, however, you don't know what that target is until the cast completes. A target that was at range that ran into melee could have been a valid target when the target selection occured. This happens a lot if there is a vortex near the boss knocking people away causing melee targets to become valid targets of the ability.

Think of it like the empowered shock vortex. If he begins to cast it while you are running to him from switching targets, you likely turn around and run away to spread out. Same logic. If the fireball is already being cast you shouldn't run into melee but be prepared to run away.

Tygragaris
04-14-2010, 05:25 PM
Hmm, you could be right... it's possible I may have been knocked away by a shock vortex and got slammed with the fireball when I got back into melee range. Seems like a very unlikely, but very possible scenario. I'll keep a close eye on it next time around (tomorrow night) and see if we run into that same thing.

Thanks for the info!

bucksdude7
04-22-2010, 08:09 PM
My group set up is

Tanks:
Prot Pally
Feral Druid


Ranged:
Hunter
Mage
Spriest

Melee:
Ret pally
Warrior

Heals:Resto Druid
Holy Priest
Pally

Im planning on having the pally tank the shadow boss(kelseth) and the druid on the other two....

Now can i get an estimate on how much DMG the druid will take tanking 2 bosses?

Tygragaris
04-27-2010, 04:44 PM
Now can i get an estimate on how much DMG the druid will take tanking 2 bosses?

When we killed them last week, I was tanking (as a warrior) both Taldaram and Valanar. The damage seemed to be very spiky and unpredictable, and our healers seemed to complain a lot about the damage I was taking. Our healer makeup consisted of two druids and a shaman however, so single target heals weren't our strong point. With a pally healer in the group, I imagine it won't be too much trouble for him to keep both tanks alive while the other two handle group heals and your priest doing tank spot heals as required. Your druid tank should, however, be ready to use cooldowns at a moment's notice, and obviously keep the two bosses relatively in the middle of the room so all the healers can reach him.

Mačl
06-01-2010, 02:18 AM
The two melee princes can dish out quite a lot of damage. Your best bet is to assign the shaman on the Keleseth tank and have one durid only heal you. The third druid is on raid duty and helps during empowers.

I have found that NOT using any styles on the two melee princes reduces the damage I take. It could be coincidence and I have no WWS to back it up but my first guess would be parry haste since I'm very low on expertise(I am totally unsure about this, can somebody please confirm?). You can build threat on the princes even when they are not empowered. So using T-Clap and SW when they are off CD should be more than sufficient. Also remember to keep demo shout up. When those two are not empowered you will be the only one attacking them. So any passive AP reduction they may have had on them will be gone soon.

The other suggestion I would have for you as a warrior tank is to use your defensive cooldowns while Keleseth is empowered. Believe me, healers are running scared when he is up. They all have seen instant gibs of the Kel tank so you can expect that even tho you have a clear assignment, all of them will keep an eye on him. Nothing the two melee princes throw at you should be threatening. But you may have to use SW when the healers are falling behind.
It is a good idea to use shield block and last stand while Kel is active. Save shield wall for when it is really needed.

Kel makes EVERY healer nervous.

Sky_Paladin
06-08-2010, 09:13 PM
My raid is having issues with Kinetic Orbs dropping outside of the combat area and wiping the raid. This has happened on hard mode 10 and 25 only, never on normal mode. Specifically, we believe they are dropping in the corridors behind the sealed doors, judging from the spray of fire coming from outside the room. In our last attempt previously, every single orb dropped outside of the room.

We originally believed this was because our strategy was to tank the two melee bosses by the wall, however this week we experienced the same trouble while tanking them in the center of the room.

Does anybody else have this issue, and is there a solution?

ulyssez
06-08-2010, 10:15 PM
to mael, parry haste is only active on lady deathwhisper and sindragosa out of the bosses in icc, it is not active vs blood prince.

to skypaladin, having kinetic orbs hit happens to everyone. I'd have to agree that it sometimes seems like they're falling outside of the room. You just have to be ready to deal with 1 or 2 falling orbs. Raid members should be conscious of their debuff stacks and use healthstones if low and pallies can use aura mastery or div sac after a kinetic ball hits to help recover.

Quinafoi
06-08-2010, 10:18 PM
Does anybody else have this issue, and is there a solution?

It is a bug in the encounter and there is nothing you can do to resolve it. Both Dark Nuclei and Kinetic Orbs can spawn behind the doors and it seems to be irrelevent of your positioning or the positioning of the bosses. Until such time as Blizzard corrects it themselves it is simply a flaw in the encounter design that you will have to overcome by executing the parts of the fight you can control as cleanly as possable so that the random chance of this bug occuring is recoverable. This is an execution fight, make sure your raiders understand this first and foremost. It is not a race to kill the bosses but rather a test to handle the mechanics of the encounter appropriately.

Travelsize
07-14-2010, 09:50 PM
I am having issues seeing shock vortex once I have a few orbs on me. Anyone have any ideas how to stop this?


The general trend seems to be, at some point during the kel empower, I get a shock vortex dropped on me I can't see and there is a wipe shortly afterwards, since the orbs apparently take a couple seconds to re-channel if you move suddenly.

Shodowz
07-14-2010, 11:50 PM
I am having issues seeing shock vortex once I have a few orbs on me. Anyone have any ideas how to stop this?


The general trend seems to be, at some point during the kel empower, I get a shock vortex dropped on me I can't see and there is a wipe shortly afterwards, since the orbs apparently take a couple seconds to re-channel if you move suddenly.

Best way i handle the orbs while tanking Kel is to keep moving, your not doing bugger all except ensuring u have 3+ orbs on you once you have gotten this your not doing to much else, Keep moving and monitor your DBM/DXE timer for when Shock Vortex is coming (Pre-empt that its coming for you), i haven't had a problem with not seeing shock vortex, Make sure your using the max distance camera angle and i almost view the room from a birds eye view - not quiet.

Good luck

Ajire
07-24-2010, 12:38 PM
My guild finally downed 10 man Blood Princes last week. What follows is my observations.

We had 2 tanks (Warrior and Paladin), two healers (Disc Priest and Paladin), 4 ranged dps (Mage, Druid, Hunter and Shaman) and 2 melee (Paladin and Rogue). We had our Warrior tank handle both Taldaram and Valanar while our paladin tank handled Keleseth.

The primary issue we had with this encounter soon turned out to be keeping our Keleseth tank alive through his Empowerments, which of course was because he did not have enough stacks of Shadow Resonance during empowerments. We identified the causes to be 1) Great difficulty in picking up additional Dark Nuclei due to obstruction of vision and 2) Dark Nuclei got killed too quick due to collateral AoE damage, primarily from the paladin's Divine Storm and Consecration.

To deal with this, we made dps'ing Keleseth during his empowerments a lower priority and instead focused on getting Dark Nuclei to our tank: Having our hunter Miss-direct them truly worked wonders, but all players was asked to help by picking up Dark Nuclei and moving them to an easy-to-grab spot for our tank. We also banned the use of any abilities that potentially caused collateral damage around Keleseth.

These corrections enabled our tank to survive the Empowerments and we successfully completed the encounter.

Quinafoi
07-25-2010, 11:06 PM
The Dark Nuclei can not be hit by any AoE mechanic other than a "nearest target" mechanic such as a cleave. Abilities such as consecrate will not hit Dark Nuclei. Dark Nuclei naturally kill themselves over time, other than their gradual self destruction and the initial ability used to pull them, they should not be taking any damage at all. For instance, Typhoon, the single largest directional cone attack any player class can do, can not hit a Dark Nuclei. They are invalid targets for the ability. Smart targeting AoE mechanics such as chain lightning and Starfall can not hit them. Channeled AoE abilities such as Blizzard, Rain of Fire, Volley, and Hurricane can not hit them. Ground based AoE mechanics such as Death and Decay and Consecrate can not hit them. The only multi-target abilities that can hit Dark Nuclei are cleaves because their function resolves targeting differently.

So your statements about AoEs hitting and killing the Dark Nuclei are false. They were either dying naturally and you or your tank did not realize this happens or someone was dealing direct damage to them such as the tank attempting to maintain aggro on something they didn't have to.

Just avoid cleave abilities and you will be fine.

Travelsize
07-27-2010, 11:15 PM
Downed a couple nights later fyi. Running away like a madman if necessary and avoiding everyone else with my eyes glued to the timer for knockbacks, plus our ranged dps getting the hang of juggling the orbs proved successful.

Also it turns out our DPS dk does have a cleaving attack, so I made doubly sure I wasn't even in the same ZIP code as him if I could help it. If there's one thing from cata that would have been useful here it's the CD reduction on heroic throw.

We've been knocking these bosses down like bowling pins recently, I know the buff is up to 30% and all but I'm more inclined to call it a ton of our really good, experienced raiders are suddenly available, going from maybe 1 night/logging on occasionally every week or 2 to raid available 3-4 days a week. We went from having to scrounge for raid-experienced dps and bringing new 80s into progression content to having full groups of veteran BC and pre-BC raiders on and ready to go at raid time, and went from banging our heads against the wall that was putricide and struggling to maintain 7/12 to being 11/12 in about 3 weeks (we raid 10 man only). I'm a big believer in the power of raid attendance.

I'm also not a big believer in the power of recruiting (with the exception of one shammy who was awesome), we tried a big recruiting drive and we got a bunch of terrible people who couldn't raid and weren't willing to listen OR wipe, and lasted a week at most.

obiwayne
07-29-2010, 06:04 AM
What would be the best way to handle this fight without a Warlock to tank Keleseth? It's looking like our group composition is going to be something like:

* 1x DK
* 2x Pally Tanks
* 1x Retpally
* 1x Hunter
* 2x Druids (one Resto, one Boomkin)
* 1x Shaman
* 2x Mages

Should one of the tanks take Keleseth and one take Valanar and Taldaram? Or is there a better way when you don't have a 'lock?

Quinafoi
07-29-2010, 08:17 AM
What would be the best way to handle this fight without a Warlock to tank Keleseth?

There is only one key in determining tanking for Keleseth and that is effective health against shadow magic. While a warlock has more damage reduction from spells available to them, a conventional tank will have a significantly larger health pool. Most raids now just use a normal tank on Keleseth. The problem with that however is the tank needs to round up the Dark Nuclei. That aspect of the role is trivialized for a ranged DPS. Using a conventional tank on the boss will require significantly more movement in order to round up the Dark Nuclei. It's a balancing act between generating threat on the boss and gathering the Dark Nuclei.

On ten man, many raids will have a single tank for Keleseth, and the stronger tank (higher physical effective health) tanking both of the others. In 25 man you can afford an actual tank for all three.

Trancid
08-21-2010, 07:26 PM
(Wall of text incoming. Scroll to the bottom for my questions. This entire post applies to the 10 man normal version of the blood princes.)

The guild my guild pugs with (8 of theirs, 2 of ours) is having quite some difficulties trying to get this boss encounter finished successfully. The main problem is the ranged boss, and we've already tried several different ranged classes and melee tanks to tackle him. It just seems that the person who is actually tanking that boss, doesn't have enough orbs on him/her during the time when he shoots empowered dark lances.
In the last 10 attempts, done last Wednesday, our raid setup was as follows:
Two paladin tanks (one with healer off-spec), 1 warlock, 2 healing druids (one with tanking off-spec), 1 boomkin, a hunter, two shadow priests (with both disc off-spec) and me as a paladin healer (with a tanking off spec). The two ways that were having the most success were using 1 paladin on the ranged boss and the other paladin on the two melee bosses, and the second way was having 3 paladin tanks and a priest switching to disc. (Yes, I know, insane...) In both cases, the paladin that tanked Keleseth died during the empowered phase of him. From what I could tell, he didn't have enough orbs channeling to him. The best of the attempts was that we downed the bosses to roughly 30% health left with roughly 3 minutes until the berserk is supposed to hit.

The seemingly official way, using a warlock tank on Keleseth, had two downsides for us. First being the warlock of course being one-shotted by the empowered shadow lance. The second was a bit more surprising. I outaggroed the warlock tank a few times as a healer, and no, I didn't have righteous fury enabled. I also occasionally got the nuclei channeling to me while I did not attack anything. It was even so at one point that the warlock tank died, Keleseth focused on me, and I was actually able to tank him for a bit due to the nuclei on me, until one of the tanks taunted it off of me, he got one shotted by the empowered lance and we eventually wiped.

Due to that last part, I joked that I could perhaps tank Keleseth. But now I'm considering if I should actually do this, and that is where I need the advice from all you wise folks.

Questions:
If the dark nuclei are not attacked by anyone, will they automatically flow to the healer with the highest threat and channel to that healer? And if that is the case, would it be feasible for a healer to tank Keleseth?
And last, if I would go to tank Keleseth as a paladin healer, should I enable Righteous Fury then as well, to generate some extra threat so that the DPSers can attack him when he is empowered, or would I probably then steal aggro from the main tanks who are attacking the melee bosses?

I know, it's a weird suggestion to have a healer tank a boss, but since we fail to do it in the other ways, I'm willing to give it a go. However, I prefer to know if it has any chance of succeeding, or that I will simply cause a high repair bill for the entire raid?

Thanks in advance for any input.

Callandor
08-22-2010, 01:08 AM
If the dark nuclei are not attacked by anyone, will they automatically flow to the healer with the highest threat and channel to that healer? Yes.

And if that is the case, would it be feasible for a healer to tank Keleseth? I don't think so though I guess its possible. In my experience even a spam healing Holy Paladin with Righteous Fury on doesn't do comparable threat to DPS nuking something, let alone moving around the room to pick up orbs as well, since orbs will likely float to other healers too.

And last, if I would go to tank Keleseth as a paladin healer, should I enable Righteous Fury then as well, to generate some extra threat so that the DPSers can attack him when he is empowered, or would I probably then steal aggro from the main tanks who are attacking the melee bosses? You most likely would'nt overagrro the other two bosses, I'd be very surprised.

Really I'd say healers are the last role you should pick to tank Keleseth. Any form of tank, DK or ranged would be preferable.

Martie
08-22-2010, 01:19 AM
Nah, if they aren't attacked they just float in place. They don't use threat, they follow whoever attacked them last.

Callandor
08-22-2010, 01:29 AM
They definitely go to healers after a long enough time of inactivity. Though of course they do stick to whoever hit them last aye.

Skaggi
08-22-2010, 02:34 AM
Your main problem is the warlock. He's just using the wrong spells if at any point a healer starts getting aggro. Warlocks use searing pain for that and it worked for Illidan and works now. Misdirect and tricks doesn't hurt either during empowered phases.

Cheers!
Skaggi

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

Quinafoi
08-23-2010, 08:33 AM
The Dark Nuclei have a tendancy to aggro onto a healer if left unattacked, however this is not guarenteed. There is also no confirmable reason why they aggro onto the healer based on all observations of how they function and most of the time they will just float in place and not aggro on anyone.

Having a healer tank Keleseth effectively means three things...

1. DPS can't do anything to Keleseth because of threat generation of a healer. A healer generats 50% of effective healing as threat, distributed to all hostile targets. Even if you're doing 12,000 eHPS, that tops out at 2,000 threat per second based on healing to each of the three bosses. That isn't a feasible amount of threat generation for an ICC level encounter, DPS would simply be unable to attack one of the easiest targets for them to attack.

2. Healers do not have high effective health, as their priorities are towards high mana pool instead. Even in PvP gear, it would be unlikely that a healer could have more health than a DPS, and no where near the health of an actual tank.

3. The healer that is "tanking" can't heal at 100% efficiency. Because they would be forced to move to aquire Dark Nuclei. No healer can sustain maximum throughput while moving. Additionally they have to use non-healing spells to insure that the Dark Nuclei does in fact aggro onto them. Because their effective health is lower than a DPS or tank, they will also require more Dark Nuclei in order to survive the empowered phase.

Because of these three reasons, it is never feasible to have a healer tank Keleseth. Most raids will use a conventional tank on him because of the highest effective health. However, if effective health is high enough, a DPS can also tank him. A healer can not generate sufficient threat, have the same amount of effective health without greatly hindering their healing, and heal effectively on the move.

obiwayne
08-23-2010, 08:38 AM
So far whenever I have had a successful kill of Princes, we just do not DPS at all when Keleseth has the orb. What I've found is if we let DPS attack, the ranged tank is unable to really hold aggro on him, so we just ignore damaging him at all. To my knowledge there is no enrage timer so we have our DPS focus on getting rid of any stray Kinetic Bombs and getting into position for an orb switch, and leave Kelseth alone.

Quinafoi
08-23-2010, 08:43 AM
So far whenever I have had a successful kill of Princes, we just do not DPS at all when Keleseth has the orb. What I've found is if we let DPS attack, the ranged tank is unable to really hold aggro on him, so we just ignore damaging him at all. To my knowledge there is no enrage timer so we have our DPS focus on getting rid of any stray Kinetic Bombs and getting into position for an orb switch, and leave Kelseth alone.

That is more of a problem with the tank than the DPS. With experience tanks can generate siginificantly more threat on the boss. For instance even if he is the second target empowered in our 25 man, our DPS does not need to hold back (though they may need to use one of their cooldowns, but they do not need to hold back). While the Keleseth tank does generate less threat than other tanks with experience it will make little difference. Additionally if threat is an issue at the beginning, hunters can misdirect early on before Keleseth becomes empowered and use Kill Shot since he is sitting at 1 hit point.

Also, there is a berserk timer, it is just very generous of a timer. The fight isn't a DPS race at all, it is an execution test.

Callandor
08-23-2010, 10:34 AM
That is more of a problem with the tank than the DPS. With experience tanks can generate siginificantly more threat on the boss. For instance even if he is the second target empowered in our 25 man, our DPS does not need to hold back (though they may need to use one of their cooldowns, but they do not need to hold back). While the Keleseth tank does generate less threat than other tanks with experience it will make little difference. Additionally if threat is an issue at the beginning, hunters can misdirect early on before Keleseth becomes empowered and use Kill Shot since he is sitting at 1 hit point.

Also, there is a berserk timer, it is just very generous of a timer. The fight isn't a DPS race at all, it is an execution test.

I'd say a Demonology Warlock at execute phase (and the boss stays at 1%, so its always execute phase) probably does more TPS than any tank could.

Quinafoi
08-23-2010, 12:06 PM
I'd say a Demonology Warlock at execute phase (and the boss stays at 1%, so its always execute phase) probably does more TPS than any tank could.

I fail to see your point. Regardless of who tanks Keleseth, a DPS or a tank, experience improves your performance. As you do better, you generate more threat while maintaining control over the other aspects of the encounter. A tank wouldn't have to worry about a DPS pulling aggro off of them because over the course of the fight the DPS will only be on Keleseth one third of the time, providing sufficient time for the tank to generate an additional threat lead. It is primarily a concern only at the very start of the fight and in particular if the empowered buff switches to Keleseth first. However with sufficient experience, even if Keleseth is the second target an experienced tank could have generated a sufficient enough threat lead to hold aggro through the phase.

A raid first learning the encounter will likely have to hold off more on Keleseth because the tank lacks sufficient experience. However a raid later in progression does not have this same issue because the tanks have become better and more comfortable in the role they are expected to perform.

yatl
09-07-2010, 12:24 PM
So last sunday my guild went to the blood quarter the first time feeling the mechanics for the princes. I expected wipes since majority of them hasn't been in this area and might need time to learn and adjust. I thought I did pretty good at picking the dark neuclei and hold the shadow lance bastard and also before we went in I read the startegy here and told the ranged to tap those kinetic bombs once in a while to keep them afloat.
Now this is the part that baffled (or pisses) me (off), the following night, one of the dps (a warlock) said she did the strategy readings and said as the nuclei picker (me, a pally tank) should also go dps on the kinetic bombs (she called it the orange orb). I don't think this is right, and i know that the readers here are more knowledgable in this than me hence why I am asking the question

Quinafoi
09-07-2010, 02:37 PM
So last sunday my guild went to the blood quarter the first time feeling the mechanics for the princes. I expected wipes since majority of them hasn't been in this area and might need time to learn and adjust. I thought I did pretty good at picking the dark neuclei and hold the shadow lance bastard and also before we went in I read the startegy here and told the ranged to tap those kinetic bombs once in a while to keep them afloat.
Now this is the part that baffled (or pisses) me (off), the following night, one of the dps (a warlock) said she did the strategy readings and said as the nuclei picker (me, a pally tank) should also go dps on the kinetic bombs (she called it the orange orb). I don't think this is right, and i know that the readers here are more knowledgable in this than me hence why I am asking the question

The tank for Keleseth has two concerns and two concerns only (which believe it or not are the same two concerns a tank always has).

1. First and foremost, survival. Surviving tanking Keleseth has to deal with rounding up and maintaining a sufficient number of Dark Nuclei. Without doing this correctly and tank will die simply because healing won't be able to keep them up when the boss becomes empowered.

2. Generate threat on the mob you are tanking. Obviously if you're tanking Keleseth, he better be attacking you and not wandering off to one shot a healer. In refining your technique for gathering Dark Nuclei through experience you will improve yourself in this area naturally because you are given more time on the boss to generate threat.

A tank on this encounter shouldn't really be responsible for anything other than tanking what they are assigned. Yes, you can help keep an Kinetic Bomb from falling if one is near you and you happen to notice it. However, you should not be assigned to doing this, that is the job of the ranged DPS. You can help them do their job, you should not do their job for them. As a paladin, you can also help with clensing the magic debuff on the raid. These are areas you can help, but you should not be assigned to it.

yatl
09-07-2010, 02:43 PM
let me rephrase this, she said my priority as a third tank is dpsing the kinetic bombs, while the second objective is grabbing the dark nuclei as the bomb duty is the foremost important thing I need to be doing by the way she said it over ventrilo. either she's looking for a carry or she's not understanding the encounter as she ran into the healers time after time during the empowered vortex shock which almost kill the 2 healers. By count, her warlock is the weakest dps in the group, should i just have her assign to bomb duty when she's not DoTs the prince?

Quinafoi
09-07-2010, 02:58 PM
Let me rephrase this... "You're right."
The tank's job is to tank. You can help others in the raid do their job once in a while, but you aren't responsible for it. Your job is to tank.

Also, you don't really DPS the Kinetic Bombs. You can't actually kill them. You just use some direct damage abilities every once in a while to keep them airborne. Typically hunters can manage it quite well by using a pet on one while hitting the other themselves. On heroic difficulty you will need at least two people doing it on 10 man (and likely four or five on 25 man) however because response time is tighter but that is something quite a ways off.

Sounds to me like the Warlock simply doesn't get it. Wouldn't surprise me if they were also DoTing up the Kinetic Bombs and it not doing anything because only direct damage actually knocks them back into the air. This fight isn't actually a DPS race, you could always stick the Warlock in the corner and make them watch as the rest of you do it right. Sounds like they need a time out anyway.

yatl
09-07-2010, 03:04 PM
thanks quina, that clarify things for me, i had 100% of that shadow bastard's aggro on me and i managed to pick up 3 dark orbs during the 2 trial runs my guild ran that night. Is it still correct that no more than 6 of those dark nuclei on the keleseth's (the shadow bastard) tank at any given time throughout the encounter?

Quinafoi
09-07-2010, 03:08 PM
Most I've ever personally had on myself was 7, but I haven't tanked it for a long time. Since they spawn randomly around the room there can be like 10 of them out there at any given time, you just wouldn't have them all on you at once. Main goal is to stay above 3 all the time, 4 is preferable but 3 is minimum. If you drop to 2 during an Empowered Keleseth phase you will want to use cooldowns.

Quinafoi
10-08-2010, 11:47 AM
as usual, the guide is awesome but i am a bit confused abt certain things :S
i have the same question as Zartanchi

There is no requirement for a specific class to tank the caster mob, in fact that vast majority of raids now a days use a conventional tank for Keleseth. I've personally tanked him as a balance druid. I've heard of even hunters and even mages tanking him nowadays though with the zone buff. The advantage a warlock had is higher magic damage reduction, however in the greater scheme of things, a conventional tank will likely still have higher over all effective health against shadow damage simply due to the higher health pool. The only advantage a ranged tank would have is that they have an easier time hitting the Dark Nuclei, since they are ranged they actually have to move less. However with practice just about any class could tank him provided sufficient threat generation and ability to aquire the Dark Nuclei.

jcfuzzyface47
10-25-2010, 09:16 AM
Good Info and good movie, But- Her voice is distracting and sounds like a open mike in a wind storme. Plz teach her how to use a mike without breathing on it. Tks