View Full Version : Tanking Squeeshy warrior looking to be less squeeshy.
01-16-2010, 08:00 AM
Hello guys :)
1st of all, this is my armory link (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Darkspear&cn=Nehama).
Well, here's my story. I've been tanking a while now and latly became the OT of our guild's most advanced group, getting into deep ICC and ToGC's 10 Anub, up to some 25 man content... And noticed that our guild's MT and another OT that sometimes tanks with me [both pallies] are WAY less squeeshy. I'm talking about me getting dead on every 2nd boss encounter while they almost never die.
At first, I was blaming it on them being pallies. They slackers sure do have it easier. [Or so all say, I've never played a pally. xD] Then, they both told me it's coz they gem avoidance, while I stacked stamina, so I tried changing that. Still, I face the same problem - while me and the other tank tank, I die from most of the bosses every 2nd or 3rd fight, while he survives them all easy.
Another issuie they offered is me using both my HP trinkets [which I can't really find better ones in the whole game up to the point where we are, correct me if I'm wrong] as an "OHshit" macro, they suggest I should time them equally between the time I've got druing the fight. I can accept that, but I'll miss my 3rd "OhshitI'mdownto3khp" button. [Together with my last stand and shield wall]. So now I'm really confused if I should stack stamina and get the nice 52k hp raid buffed, or should I gem for parry like a maniac, and see some 2%~ increese? [To me, it seems a really poor trade. Then again, our GM pally MT says he gems avoidance and he survives way longer... Kinda have to listen to someone who proves better every hard fight]
And last but not least, I'm wondering about glyphing. Atm I'm tanking mostly ICC, where taunts are not allowed to miss. Therefor, I must have the taunt glyph, leaving me with 2 glyph spaces - I like to use Last stand and Blocking. I wonder if shield wall glyph is better then one of those 2 - since I used to have it insteed of my taunt glyph, and I kinda miss it's nerfed CD.
I must say that I've tanked successfully not a lil' amount of content, but sometimes I just get spiked down, unlike my pally comrads. I know my rotations well regarding tps and such, so there's no real need in any commets in that area.
Would love any ideas on how to become less squeeshy... :(
And yes, I know my shield sucks. Didn't manage to win a better one yet :(
Focus on EH because of the way bosses are designed to kill you with spike and unavoidable damage, almost every end game tank I know along with my self focuses on EH and have very little problems. Gem all stamina unless the socket bonus is 9 stamina or higher and in that case put in a 15 stam 10 agility/dodge/defense gem. Change your shoulder enchant to the pvp one, get 225 armor on your cloak and 18 stamina on your gloves. I would replace your Glyph of Blocking with Glyph of Shield Wall and switch it out on taunt sensitive fights.
Think about the bosses that kill tanks in current content:
Gormok kills the tank through a Melee, Impale, Bleed combo the only avoidable attack is the melee making it so if you stack avoidance rely on avoiding the Melee and when it hits which it will eventually you will die, focus on a stam to armor ratio at 1 stam = 14.62 armor because the Bleed is unmitigable.
Anub'Arak and Icehowl kill the tank while a stun is up making avoidance useless in that situation, on Anub instead of worrying about EH focus on armor and NR since you the raid is penalized for the more health you have.
Festergut you should pop all your cooldowns on stack 3 but on stack 2 with no cooldowns up he hits like a truck and avoidance relys on RNG too much in that situation, here focus on a stam to armor ratio of 1 stam = 16 armor since the unavoidable Gastrous Blight does a fair bit of damage.
The only reason focusing on avoidance works is because it doesn't matter how your gear for that encounter and could do it with anything on, focusing on EH works everytime while avoidance doesn't work every time and is only favorable on Gunship which again doesn't matter. With your gear in ICC you are most likely dying because of something completely that has nothing to do with your gear and everything with your raid awareness like standing in a fire. Could you specify which bosses you are dying on and possibly link a World of Logs? Another reason could be is that you aren't using your cooldowns wisely.
Make sure you are using all of your cooldowns not just Last Stand and Shield Wall, Shield Block and your trinket cds can be very useful along with a Last Stand Enraged Regeneration combo. Replace your Ashen Band with the Cluth of Fortification, 14 stam is not worth 560 armor. You made a bad choice with your frost emblems getting the hands since the offset hands are much much better.
With your frost emblems my next pick would be the cloak, offset chest, belt, offset hands followed by the T10 helm and shoulders. Don't forget to flask and use Indestructible potions.
01-16-2010, 09:02 AM
This sounds suspiciously as if the palas are surviving through avoidance when the rng favors them and through ardent defender when it doesnt. I'd say that's a very bad way of tanking and it wont work as a warrior.
The warrior way is gearing for effective health and making sure you have external cooldowns backing you up when you alone are not enough (for example a priest shield just before the 2nd impale on Gormok while he has max rising anger buff makes all the difference between a kill and large puddles of goo on the floor)
01-16-2010, 09:06 AM
A few more questions, if you don't mind :)
I'm using all of my CD's, shield block is on macro with my shield slam, which I use everytime it's off CD [for the glyph's 10%], so it's on auto use kinda. The trinkets are bined into one macro to have another 'major' CD, and enraged reg is on a diff CD, to decide if I use it on LS or on other situations.
I usually manage to tank pretty well and it's not about knowing the tactics - I managed to down saf in ICC once and had him under 5% like 10 times or so [Mostly dps and general fuckups rather then me wiping], yet sometimes I just die while the other tank [pally] have no such problem. His gear is a bit more advanced [mostly has all icc 10 tank gear] which might be the reason for it.
Take for example the valkyr fight we had on our ToGC 10 last night - I died at about 20% from tanking a single valkyr [was after I poped a CD for the blast] and then our MT tanked them both down with a bl, surviving it.
About the frost emblems - I've read somewhere I should get the t10 set asap, since it's a major life to tps/dps... Was that wrong? I guess I'm forced to take shoulders now.
My cloak sucks big time, but I'm hoping to have priority on one of those that drop in ICC now.
About the rings - I've got the ony 25 ring. It's 115 stam and 800 armor - from what you say, that'd be better then my Ashen band?
I suppose that'd change soon, as I'm almost to the next ring, which has the Chance on hit and prolly worth changing.
Another question I have is how much my shield effects my survivibility? I know it does, prolly alot too, but can the diffrence between him standing easy and my crashing be my oh-so-very-outdated shield?
Thanks for your answers!
On Saurfang if you die it is the pallys fault, what happens is he applys Rune of Blood on the tank and leaches 5-6k hp from you evertime he hits you, since Saurfang hits so lightly the only way you can die that the pally tank is forgetting to taunt. For the Valkyr I don't know how to explain that since they hit incredibly lightly, maybe the orbs were hitting you? It is for sure not your gear or how you gear but simple mistakes.
I would get the T10 after the offset pieces, the added armor from the offset pieces is too much to ignore, I would get the T10 afterwards with the helm and shoulders because they are the only T10 pieces that are not easily upgraded by emblem or crafted gear.
The Ony ring would be a better option to replace the Ashen one because it has higher overall armor than the Cluth and NR which could be useful for Anub. And the Cluth the other option is certainly not better than the heroic Valkyr ring so I would go with the Heroic Valkyr Ony ring combo. Your shield is gonna affect your survival a fair bit, but not all that much, your shield compared to the normal ToC shield only has 14 less stamina and 400 less armor.
01-16-2010, 09:34 AM
At the valkyrs that was prolly my bad, I was attacking the shielded one to put some sunders on it [While he was the same colour as my aura... Does that damages me that much?]
You gave me some stuff to think over. Thanks again for the help :)
Last question - what do I gem into a yellow socket? It became more papular on t10 gear now... And I got no idea what to put into it. Ignore socket bonus and pop 30 stam? Use the one +10 all stats for the gloves? Put 15 stam + 10 def?
01-16-2010, 09:49 AM
Depends on the socket bonus. If its 9 stam or more go for it, if not, then dont. I myself would prolly go stam/dodge/def/agil.
On a yellow socket like Energy said if its 9 stamina or higher pop in a 15 stam 10 defense gem.
01-16-2010, 03:54 PM
You really aren't doing anything wrong in your gear setup. Pallies are a bit more survivable atm, but my guess is it's mostly a gear difference. As a warrior you want to gem for EH, so think stam, armor, and then stam.
As for T10 emblem pieces, the tier set is not very good for survivability. Get the offset pieces (including the cloack) first, then go two pieces of the tier set for the threat boost.
Vene's post on his blog site (http://www.tankingtips.com/2009/12/24/the-emblem-of-frost-pick-order/) is excellent IMO for a guide to which emblem pieces to pick up.