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View Full Version : The hardest part to Rotface...



Muffin Man
01-13-2010, 06:25 PM
is getting the taunt to land.

Yesterday we had *1* attempt where taunt went off without a hitch. We cleared the gear check and downed him that attempt.
Every other attempt, we kept wiping due to phase transitions like this:

Warrior tanking hits 8 stacks
Pally Hand of Reckonings *3* times (2 immunities, 1 lands)
we avoid tank death and continue.

2 minutes later
Warrior taunts *9* times with a mocking blow thrown in (MB immunity, 8 taunt immunities, last 1 lands)
but by this time the pally is dead.

These immunity numbers are from recount. Since I was the warrior tank I can tell you that I was not spamming Taunt/MB/Challenging Shout outside of the 2nd tank swap so there's zero reason for the pally to need 3 taunts to get Festergut.

Since hand of reckoning does damage, I can see in recount that the pally only used it 3 times (to get Festergut off me). And with only 1 landing it's just impossible for Festergut to go taunt immune.

This reminds me of when they put in Hand of Reckoning and random bosses were Taunt immune...

Has anyone else run into this problem?

Also, I'm fairly certain that missed taunts show up as resisted not immune.

Giliandrix
01-13-2010, 06:29 PM
Your title mentions Rotface, but your details describe and talk about Festergut.

For fights like this, you really need to make sure your tanks are hit-capped or taunt-glyphed. I have never failed a taunt on this fight. The immunities can only be due to DR which they actually nerfed, so your tanks must be doing something horribly wrong.

Muffin Man
01-13-2010, 07:38 PM
I do have the titles horribly wrong. I don't know why I always confuse the two bosses...

As for the others, please note the breakdowns I listed. I don't see any possible way that either tank did something horribly wrong (especially since I can vouch for one - myself).

Halgreg
01-13-2010, 07:54 PM
Warriors at least have the Taunt glyph. Resisted taunts are rough, but in ICC, there are a lot of tank switching scenarios, so it may be worth getting, especially if a failed taunt leads to wipesville.

Mindy
01-13-2010, 11:58 PM
I'd suggest the taunt glyph as well. I've had to use it since Anub adds in TotGC.

A prot war could also temporarily vigilance the current tank to spam taunt until it works.

Shaun
01-14-2010, 01:44 AM
Also: make sure hunter-pets and warlock-pets have their taunt-abilities turned off. Pets autocast the taunts and make the boss immune in the end.

orcstar
01-14-2010, 02:50 AM
Also: make sure hunter-pets and warlock-pets have their taunt-abilities turned off. Pets autocast the taunts and make the boss immune in the end.Are you really sure about that? AFAIK growl is a high threat abilitie and I don't really know how the boss can get taunt immune from pets without you seeing the boss turn to a pet.

(if it's not the first taunt that's missing: the pala could do a lot of threat while not tanking but under the influence of the damage buff. He could really be riding your back. Then, if a taunt fails he just has to bop you to get aggro. But you have to be really really sure the difference is less then 10%)

Peca
01-14-2010, 03:33 AM
That is reason why I asked for change on 8 stack change in our raids.Cause sometimes things can get wrong and you have space for solving problem.We never had taunt problem.Also it is better to do first change on 8 cause you can use cds more relaxing,transition is much more better since your second tank will not be asap gibed but hard hit of fully buffed boss and healers can do it better.
We are using hand of salvation on first tank to prevent possibility that first tank overaggro second tank.
That is my exp with this fight.

Dragaan
01-14-2010, 04:29 AM
Either someone was taunting him repeatedly during the fight or it was a bug. Missed taunts will show up as a miss on recount. If it were just an insanely unlucky string of taunt misses, I'd say just swap in a taunt glyph. If the boss actually was immune, then there's not much you can do besides tell ppl not to spam taunt the boss (or hope the bug goes away next attempt).

Selyndia
01-14-2010, 06:08 AM
Hand of Reckoning only does damage when a tauntable target is not actually targeting the Paladin. If they are mashing taunt while tanking (And thus putting the boss on DR and making it immune) there would be no damage dealt. A parce report like World of Logs should show how often he had the Taunt type debuffs though.

It sounds like your Paladin was mashing the taunt key and putting it on DR thinking it would do a little extra damage, when in fact all it is in fact only putting him on DR.

Rominoodle
01-14-2010, 08:09 AM
That is reason why I asked for change on 8 stack change in our raids.Cause sometimes things can get wrong and you have space for solving problem.We never had taunt problem.Also it is better to do first change on 8 cause you can use cds more relaxing,transition is much more better since your second tank will not be asap gibed but hard hit of fully buffed boss and healers can do it better.
We are using hand of salvation on first tank to prevent possibility that first tank overaggro second tank.
That is my exp with this fight.

Slightly disagree with this. I understand the need for cushion, but like everybody else...if there is a problem with the taunting...glyph for it. I am not glyphed for taunt and i've never missed on this fight either. Especially if the pally is the 2nd tank, you have 2 taunts you can use right away once the 9 stacks hits. The only time I've wiped on this guy is when the tank with the 90% buff doesn't chill out for a few seconds before whacking the boss again and explodes. As far as the bubble / bop your stacks off theory...that's just...dumb

vine
01-14-2010, 12:00 PM
He said Hand of Salvation, not Hand of Protection.

brain
01-14-2010, 12:06 PM
Sounds like someone is spamming taunts while tanking. Just need some education passed around.

note: our guild switches on 8 stacks in both 10 and 25. Works great and gives you plenty of time to manage screw ups.

Muffin Man
01-14-2010, 03:37 PM
Hand of Reckoning only does damage when a tauntable target is not actually targeting the Paladin. If they are mashing taunt while tanking (And thus putting the boss on DR and making it immune) there would be no damage dealt. A parce report like World of Logs should show how often he had the Taunt type debuffs though.

It sounds like your Paladin was mashing the taunt key and putting it on DR thinking it would do a little extra damage, when in fact all it is in fact only putting him on DR.

I didn't realize it did no damage when the mob was already on you, thus not showing up in recount. I suppose that opens up the possibility of user error by the pally. I'll keep an eye on it next week since we did actually down him.

Since no one else has had this problem, it seems safe to say it's not a bug like back in Naxx when taunts just started acting up one patch.

Odok
01-15-2010, 01:09 AM
Hmm. I've yet to have a taunt miss. Usually bosses like this have an artificially lowered taunt resist rate. Has anyone run the numbers to see if this is the case?

Peca
01-15-2010, 01:35 AM
@Rominoodle (http://www.tankspot.com/forums/members/rominoodle.html)

Yes 9 stacks are perfect.But as I said this works for us.Every raid have some weak spots,our raids have tough time in transitions.So when we had first trys I noticed that they struggle if tank taunt on first 9 stack,cause boss is fully buffed then.Every tactic must be suited for you raid setup,that is why we chose 8 stacks,cause our healing team felt a bit more relaxed that way.Anyway there is base tactic and from that you need to find what is best for you.Sry for offtopic,point is glyph of taunt can solve you many problem if you have taunt issue (like it was on Gormok for many tanks).

Dreamwerks
01-16-2010, 08:54 AM
ICC has allot of gear with +hit on it but if it's that big of a problem, use 40hit food and be placed in a group with a draeni

Fantheria
01-16-2010, 12:38 PM
Switching at 8 stacks gives your tank slightly less DPS but a lot more breathing room for taunt failures. The first tank will have 5 sec left on bloat when the second tank hits 8 stacks.

Also, get your tanks hit capped, there really isn't an excuse with iLVL 245+ gear.

Proletaria
01-16-2010, 11:41 PM
In case there is a dk with this problem, deathgrip doesn't miss, use it.

One of the few times that it feels good to be a dk. mmm

TomHuxley
01-17-2010, 01:20 PM
I always have taunt switches done at 8 stacks as well. Also, as a warrior I always vigilance the other tank so my taunt refreshes instantly if it misses. Every tank class that needs it can get a glyph of taunt, so there's no excuse to wipe repeatedly if this is what's causing the problem.

Zothor
01-17-2010, 02:29 PM
Warriors, Paladins, and Deathknights all have 2 ways to retarget a mob - warriors actually have 3 if you count challenging shout, which also serves as bears 2nd (they're disadvantaged in this sense, but since they use leather DPS gear staying hit capped has rarely ever been a problem for bears).

I feel like people forget this. I don't even do it reactively anymore. When I'm taunting Festergut? I hit hand of reckoning and then almost -immediately- hit Righteous defense. They're both short cooldowns. Use them both.

My warrior tank missed a taunt the other day when I had nine stacks and wasn't doing shit till I yelled at him in vent to mocking blow it. I salved myself to try and drop it to him, but it's like people forget that they have more than one way to re-direct a mob.... mocking blow kept him refocused long enough for taunt to come off CD.

Nitros14
01-17-2010, 07:16 PM
Glyph Righteous Defence, use it instead of hand of reckoning, prevail.

epij
01-18-2010, 02:10 AM
Hand of Reckoning only does damage when a tauntable target is not actually targeting the Paladin. If they are mashing taunt while tanking (And thus putting the boss on DR and making it immune) there would be no damage dealt. A parce report like World of Logs should show how often he had the Taunt type debuffs though.

It sounds like your Paladin was mashing the taunt key and putting it on DR thinking it would do a little extra damage, when in fact all it is in fact only putting him on DR.

my thought exactly. i also ran into many IMMUNE's at taunting goromok until i discovered that my offtank had hand or reckoning in his rota holding the DR.

@nitros14 the taunt glyph for pallies has HoR in as well

vine
01-19-2010, 04:51 AM
In case there is a dk with this problem, deathgrip doesn't miss, use it.
Death Grip does in fact miss, I have seen it a number of times. It's on the spell hit table afaik.

Dreadski
01-19-2010, 09:33 AM
Definitely sounds like someone spamming taunt, if you're getting "Immune" instead of "Miss".

Lanore
01-19-2010, 04:56 PM
Either someone was taunting him repeatedly during the fight or it was a bug. Missed taunts will show up as a miss on recount. If it were just an insanely unlucky string of taunt misses, I'd say just swap in a taunt glyph. If the boss actually was immune, then there's not much you can do besides tell ppl not to spam taunt the boss (or hope the bug goes away next attempt).


This.. someone in your tank crew has taunt in their rotation if he is immune. otherwise, you would just be seeing misses.