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Nashiira
01-12-2010, 04:43 AM
I need help brainstorming ideas for another way to work on the Saurfang 10-man.

At this point we are an extremely melee heavy group and have 1-2 ranged at most, both being shadow priests. Killing the adds quickly as a shadow priest is a bit fair challenge for these two. For nights like this where we end up so melee heavy it is a requirement for our group to get creative or switch to alts, something I'd like to avoid if at all possible but may be inevitable.

I'm curious if anyone else has had to deal with a similar situation in this fight.

I've come up with two potential solutions so far.

1) Have the melee help out, split them up saying some go to the left add and some to the right. With how quickly they'd go down there wouldn't be too much dps loss. However they will likely get hit causing them to take moderate damage and adding to Saurfang's building purple bar.

2) Have the tanks attempt to pick them up when they are not on Saurfang. Being a tank they are less likely to be hit and are already getting heals.
Typical melee composition consists of:

Tanks: Death knight and druid.
DPS: Two rogues, retribution pally, unholy death knight and enhancement shaman.

Thank you for any assistance you may be able to provide.

Nashiira
01-12-2010, 05:16 AM
Now that I'm home and thus able to spend more time on the net than work allows, there seems to be some similar threads on the subject. That said, they are just similar. If anyone has any personal experience or thoughts directly I'd love to hear them.

swelt
01-12-2010, 06:33 AM
Just to state the obvious, your group makeup would be a lot better if you got more ranged. Perhaps you might persuade your enhancement shaman to build an elem set. That would give you better balance, more balanced raid buffs and also an aoe knockback effect.

An alternative would be to have your unholy DK kite the adds. With taunts, chains of ice, diseases (spreading ebon plague), it's not hard. In our alt 10 man run this weekend, we had less ranged than normal so after seeing them struggle I started doing this. There's a vid/thread showing a frost dk doing it in 25 man, it's much much easier in 10 man. I guess if you were still struggling to kill them, the rogues could use tricks of the trade (onto said DK) and have them stab them a bit.

Lanore
01-12-2010, 07:08 AM
We had this problem in an alt run and solved it by having our DK chain of ice cc one of the adds while the ranged killed the first add. Then he went back to dps while ranged killed the second. The result is that ranged pretty much stay on the adds the whole time, but the boss is still dead.

Symph
01-12-2010, 07:29 AM
A DK chains of icing one of the mobs is an option.

But, I've encountered this problem before as well and we just had our ret paladin pop on Righteous Fury and lay down a consecration and move out right before the adds would spawn. However with your comp, I would just assign one priest to each mob kiting it and keeping it slowed with mind flay. If you only have one priest, having the enhance shaman frost shock kiting the other works as well. Split the melee, have one rogue on each side, the DK on one side and the enhance shaman on the other. The DK and Shaman should both use their own judgment for when they need to slow (frost shock or chains of ice), unless of course the shaman is kiting, then he'll have to frost shock the whole time. Having the rogues tricks into whoever is kiting would help a lot too as threat can be kind of iffy when someone is kiting.

Giliandrix
01-12-2010, 07:41 AM
The best solution for your group would honestly be using chains of ice. Couple of DKs I know that tank this fight say they have no problems even when they're tanking Saurfang to throw chains on both adds.

Your unholy DK should be using Pest to spread EP, so the spriests have an easier time killing the adds. The enhance shammy can totem swap to Earthbind, so as the beasts spawn they are already slowed by 50% while the Spriests put on VT/SWP on the mobs.

Alternatively if your melee DPS is very very high (which it should be seeing 2 rogues) you should stack the two shadow priests on one side and have them focus down one mob which shouldn't be an issue if they stagger their Mind Flays so the snare is always active. What you do with the other bloodbeast is very simple, since you run with a druid tank and a ret pally, have them alternate stuns on the other beast. First spawn, Paladin uses Hammer of Justice, all the melee turn and beat that add down while the other add is getting taken care of by the two shadow priests. Second Spawn, Druid uses bash, all the melee turn and kill that one again, while the two shadow priests remain on the other add. Third Spawn, Hammer is off cooldown again and so on and so forth.

Another great trick for skilled tanks is taunting the blood beasts back when they are close to hitting a ranged target. This generally is used best if the add will die before they get back to the tank and hit him however. But the couple of seconds it buys your ranged DPS could be very crucial and helpful.

I think that's all I have to say about this lol.

Nashiira
01-12-2010, 11:07 AM
Thank you for your assistance, everyone. I hope to be able to report back tonight what may and/or may not have worked with hopes of helping others who might one day have this issue.

yolande
01-12-2010, 11:23 AM
It toke us several tries one night when we only had 2 ranged dps.

We had a mage and a hunter for range dps. Paly tank and a bear tank. Shammy healer and a disc priest. For melee we had 2 warriors, and a rogue.

It was not pretty and we were on the last attempt before I was going to get either an other healer (the priests main spec is shadow) or another ranged. We also had some bad luck with the healers being marked.

Voodan
01-12-2010, 12:13 PM
I'm pretty sure the adds are stunnable and have 70k health or so on 10 man. Easiest method would be for all of your melee to turn around and stun lock/ burn 1 down while the 2 shadow priests kite/ kill the other one. Also keep in mind that they are tauntable so if one of the tanks sees one getting close to a ranged caster they can taunt one back and it should die before it reaches the tanks (make sure not to blow a single taunt too early if you're the tank waiting to taunt when RoB is put on the current tank).

Muffin Man
01-12-2010, 01:34 PM
They are stunnable as well as snarable and as said die very fast. Have the rogues take turns stunlocking them. The DK can also use his pet to gnaw one of the beasts if necessary. And the ret pally can stun, ect.

As said, taunt is something you can do to ping pong them away from raiders if your tanks are up for it. If they are, have the one *currently* tanking DBS do the taunting (I believe taunt is also 360 degrees so they just have to find the beast to target).

Also, what are your healers? Shamans can drop earthbind/frost shock. Druids can root. Priests can shield in case a bloodbeast gets too close. Paladins... I guess they have hammer every so often.

phaze
01-13-2010, 08:17 AM
As others have said, utilize your melee stuns to explode one of them. Your ranged dps can pull the other to the side with damage and slows. If it gets close to the ranged dps before dying, one of the tanks can taunt it back to keep it running around in the middle.

Corrin
01-13-2010, 09:14 AM
My 10-man team usually only has 2 ranged as well.

Basically, stuns are your friends. As a bear, I felt I had 2 free points so I went improved bash for the stun. Saurfang will wiggle a bit but that is not a huge problem.

In your case, if you had imp bash, the druid tank stuns one, every time, and the ret pally and rogues take turns stunning the other. The unholy dk can help on the druid one. Each beast has 100,000 health so figure out how long is needed to kill them with your average dps. In my case it was 7 secs.

BruisedOoze
01-13-2010, 10:05 AM
You have two rogues and as such two tricks of the trade available. Have them tricks the kiter for one of them. Also if one of them is a mutilate rogue see if they'll drop one point in favor of deadly brew. This will apply a snare to their targets, for a minor DPS loss. The tricks will allow them not to waste combo points on a stun, but rather finishers.

I would think that the snares combined with tricking a shadow priest should work. Saving the DK to DPS Saurfang. Just make sure they don't overlap tricks so they can keep the slowed adds on the shadow priests.

gatorfan
01-13-2010, 10:14 AM
Shamans can drop earthbind/frost shock.

We tried earth bind last week and the beasts were immune. Can someone confirm that or was that a bug/hotfix and now the beasts can be slowed with earth bind?

If the beasts are still immune for the love of all that makes sense in a game why not? What's the difference between a frost trap from a hunter and earth bind? srsly

Muffin Man
01-13-2010, 01:03 PM
We used earthbind the first two weeks we were there. I would imagine the one of the Shamans would have said something if they were immune (especially since one was the raid leader).

But to be honest our ranged have been more than adequate for killing them without snares (they use a stun and entangling roots to focus them one at a time) so I wouldn't know if they've been changed at all in terms of snare resistance...

Liquidska
01-13-2010, 02:33 PM
Kill adds. Then kill boss. Don't over think this fight on 10 man, don't worry about his runic power. Have tanks wear avoidance gear and pick up the adds like normal. Have you DPS blitz the two down. If your DPS is worthwhile then you really shouldn't have that many marks. A shadowfury makes these easier but even with out it you should be okay.

Your ret pally and his seal of cleave should do most of the work for you anyways.

Nashiira
01-14-2010, 05:42 AM
Fortunately for the ease of our run, our enhancement shaman switched his off-spec to elemental and we did have two shadow priests, so my fear of only one ranged did not happen this week.

However once we started the fight I realized that we had been doing a number of the things that were suggested already, such as the chains of ice. I also would taunt the buggers if I wasn't on Saurfang and they were right up on the ranged players.

Thank you for your input, everyone. Hopefully this thread will help other groups that may comes across this pitfall some day.