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View Full Version : Pit of Saron keep wiping, please help.



Castiron
01-10-2010, 07:24 PM
Ok I was running PoS today. We defeated the first two bosses no problem. When we get to the trash on the hill right before the tunnel I go down like a ton o bricks. We wiped there four times.

I was going down in seconds. Here is a link to my armory.The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Stormrage&n=castiron)

As you can see I have more than enough gear to do this bad boy on normal. (and did earlier in the same day) I have to be missing some mechanic. I have to think I am standing in the poo or something. Can somebody tell me what super move these wee beasties are killin me with and how to counter it? I am going down in about 5-10 seconds it seems.
I used Anit magic shell on fourth try and did ok but then the pally pulled agro with all the healing and once he went down..... grrrr please help.

Delicatesse
01-11-2010, 04:41 AM
Short hc PoS survival guide:

DKs take a lot more damage in heroics because of the lack of block. On these packs it's really a pain in the ass, I've healed tons of bad geared tanks on these and some of them was easier to heal than a full togc25 geared DK tank, not kidding you.

Tips to make these caster groups easier:
1) use some form of CC on one of the casters
2) focus dps the first nonCCed mob, preferably a caster
3) ask DPS not to pull aggro on anything
4) ask healer not to heal dps who pulls aggro (DPS will take damage from the disease and hellfire anyway, but healing that is not very urgent)
5) use your CDs :)
6) use spell interrupts on the caster mobs
7) make sure you position the mobs so they all hit you from the front and not from behind
8) if you have a shammy, make him drop a cleansing totem.
9) ask healer to spam heals, don't just react to damage taken, SPAM IT

On the last 2 packs you will get 2 casters and 4 melees. Move out of the ice circles they cast, or the circle will do a ton of damage. If you get rooted into the circle, use a CD. However you should not ever get rooted if you move fast, at least I haven't seen a root coming out seconds after a circle. They stack sunders (named Arcing Slice), so good dps is important OR you should use a CD at the end of the pull because of reduced armor. Wait for sunders to fall of before you pull the next pack.

In the tunnel you should not run all along the way if you can't take the hits, you can pause anytime and turn your face to the mobs.

The last boss hits quite hard during the "enrage" phase, you can kite him using the ice pools. Or use cooldowns :)

Fledern
01-11-2010, 05:27 AM
There are two types of trash there, two sets of two. I prefer tanking these on my DK so i wouldnt know about Delicatesse's remarks, but then she's pretty good geared but not as good as my warrior.

First type: Vyrkul caster that spawns 4 undead. Two of the undead are casters (named Flamecaster), two are melee.

Vyrkul is a single target caster. While it hurts it's healable, even on top of the extra other damage. The flamecasters however, hurt for tons. You really need to use some sort of cc on one flamecaster and full nuke the other one. The way i do it is i run up to the closest flamecaster, pop dnd there so that the other flamecaster is out of it but the vyrkul is inside. Fullnuke the 1st flamecaster and if your threat is good enough, pop strangulate on the vrykul to bring it near. With spamhealing on you, noone else should be taking any damage and the healer should be able to keep you up. AMS also helps if the casters start hurting too much. If you have only sheep as your cc, you can have it on the vyrkul and put the strangulate on the other flamecaster. Beware flamecasters of blinking & hellfiring, have your mind freeze at the ready

2nd set of mobs: 2 casters & 4 melee. The melee dont hit too hard. The 2 casters however pwn, even good geared tanks are hard to keep up. Again, cc one caster. If cc isnt available strangulate one, mindfreeze other, pop AMS and hope dps can get one caster down. A single caster is healable, both going on is not.

Have fun. Once you manage to get those trash packs down and master the tunnel gauntlet, PoS actually becomes a very fun instance to run.

Nez
01-11-2010, 11:40 AM
Killing the flame casters first is key to making it easy. Mark those two and be sure to ask dps to nuke those first while you build threat on the first kill target, and aoe on the pack to hold the rest. Use your AMS and IBF. Super bubble if your unholy. But just be sure to kill those 2 first. By the time the first one drops you should have really good threat on the whole pack. You can even spin them around a bit so your looking down the hill to easily see if one splits off to go after someone, just yank it back. :D
I do that on my warrior and DK almost every day with little problems. Once you get it down you'll do fine.

Dreadski
01-11-2010, 12:58 PM
You need a lot more health. At least 6k more would give your healer a little bit more breathing room.

Felycitas
01-11-2010, 02:55 PM
His health is fine. the Armory doesn't show the stamina boost from frost presence.

Here's what I do as a DK (frost) when I tank that section...

PACKS 1 and 2:

- Drop D&D on the middle mob (1st to die). Tank at the southwest flamebearer (2nd or 3rd to die). DG the northeast flamebearer (2nd or 3rd to die). Howling Blast and Blood Boil. AMS and then a few seconds later Rune Tap and Unbreakable Armor. Make sure the two melee mobs aren't attacking you from behind.

- If your health is getting dangerously low and you aren't making significant progress, pop Icebound Fortitude and just wait 2 minutes before the next pull (better than wiping and waiting longer).

- Pay attention to the flamebearers casting hellfire so you can interrupt it with Mind Freeze or Strangulate (I'd just use Mind Freeze; it's AoE damage and the less the healer has to heal the party the better they'll be at healing you).

- If I'm healing you on my priest, leave the northeast flamebearer alone because I can shackle that. Use your CC if the other members are knowledgeable.

PACKS 3 and 4:

- Tank everything at the northeast whateverthefrostguyiscalled (1st or 2nd to die) and DG over the other one (1st or 2nd to die). Make sure the melee aren't hitting your back. AMS and then UA a few seconds later. Move out of the frost circles they make. Again, if your health is getting dangerously low and you aren't making progress, pop IF.

Voodan
01-11-2010, 04:48 PM
Honestly a lot of the dmg here comes from dispellable dots and cleansable diseases. Depending on your healer, that makes it a ton easier. When I heal this on my priest I can dispell the fireballs dots (which stack) and cleanse the diseases at the same time as healing the whole group. It makes it pretty easy.

As for aggro, if you have a healer pulling aggro that is a safe bet that you're doing something wrong. Make sure to drop your D&D in the most optimal way so that it catches the most caster mobs possible and DG the remaining caster over to you. As was mentioned above, be smart about your interupts/CC. Strangulate one of the flamebearers, interupt the other one's cast. Use your survival CD's to the best of your ability. Bear in mind you'll need your CD's more at the beginning of a pull than at the end as damage intake will obviously decrease with a mob or two dead.

To address the DK tank vs. other tanks issue: DK tanks are only as good as the skill of the player. Unlike other classes, no you cannot simply melt through some pulls with pure stats as easily as some other classes. That being said if a DK uses CD's properly, they can arguably be EASIER to heal than other classes over time in a heroic.

Castiron
01-11-2010, 04:52 PM
I look forward to trying out all these tips :)

Somehow I had taken off my Blackheart. My actual health unbuffed is 27K.

Thanks so much for your help.

Eisen
01-11-2010, 07:45 PM
I have a routine for the Hill of Doom.

1) I ask all dps to keep the Flamey guys stunned/interrupted as much as possible.
2) mark the two Flameys guys Skull and X.
3) Silence one of the Flamies (I guess strangulate would work best here if you have a little RP built up. Or you can just yank him)
4) Run/Charge to the other flamey. Pop any aoe aggro (TC/Shockwave) once all the mobs are in position
5) Pay attention! Interrupt any time the flamies cast Hellfire, and interrupt them any other time if you can. The number one killer of groups here is Hellfire. If you can't interrupt it, get out! Remember that the chick who summoned them in the first place also pops some pretty strong shadowbolts (reflected one once for 10k damage to her)

Now, this IS regular PoS right? No offense but H would eat you.

Mačl
01-12-2010, 05:19 AM
Honestly a lot of the dmg here comes from dispellable dots and cleansable diseases. Depending on your healer, that makes it a ton easier. When I heal this on my priest I can dispell the fireballs dots (which stack) and cleanse the diseases at the same time as healing the whole group. It makes it pretty easy.

This. I've had many lazy healers who simply have forgotten how to dispell stuff. Also tell the retardins and mages that they have this seldomly used decursing thingie they should take advantage of.

Burn down/disable the flame bearers. Those are what kills the party. You are facing mostly magic damage.



To address the DK tank vs. other tanks issue: DK tanks are only as good as the skill of the player. Unlike other classes, no you cannot simply melt through some pulls with pure stats as easily as some other classes. That being said if a DK uses CD's properly, they can arguably be EASIER to heal than other classes over time in a heroic.
It's no faceroll for warriors too. You need to use almost all skills you have to group those packs and mitigate spell damage while mainaining threat. I wiped a couple on this until I went heavy in the shield bash and spell reflect while timing shockwave for when the healer has difficulties to keep everybody up.

Your health should be fine. Just about 28k unbuffed, I reckon. But in the gauntlet run in the tunnel you will not want to rush to the middle and then the exit. Your healer will have to heal you and he will pull aggro. Take it nice and easy and tell everybody to avoid the caveins.

On the last boss if you get kicked back you will not want to rush back to him since at that moment he is enraged and kicks like a mule. Tank him with your back to a patch of snow. He will kick you beyond that and will be slowed while he walks towards you. That should be enough.

If you have recount, open the tab "friendly fire" and spam that during the fight. I've had had clowns who did 100k damage in total to me which is killing me twice. Be ready to spam that if DPS isn't able to see a big f***ing red beam connecting them to the boss.

Keep on tanking, you will be in you T9 in no time. Your gear is a quite nice starter tanking gear. Just consider flasking up for the new instances. HoR might be a little bit beyond your gear level if you have a healer who can't remove poison.

Finish PoS, loot Axe, do happy dance. Job done.

BTW, 545 def is by no means the end of the road. You still get chance of being missed, dodge and parry from it. If you want to see what mitigation stats benefit you the most in your gear pick up Tank Points. This addon helps you with your gemming/enchant choices. At your level gemming for dodge is sound and gemming for def is necessary.

Castiron
01-13-2010, 12:44 PM
I have to be a little honest here. The main thing I was not doing was interupting the spell casters. I remeber thinking "This hellfire is gonna kill me.' I kept wacking at him and using cool downs and praying I would live or the dps would get him down. I never thought about Strang and MF.

The last time I fought them I popped AMS and was doing pretty good even without interupting, but I didn't have good agro on the flame caster due to bad placement of dnd. Thats why they killed the pally who was keeping me up fairly well that time. He also said he couldn't dispell the Dot from the fireballs?

So what I have learned from this..
1. If we have some cc use it.
2.Kill the flamcasters first.
3. Interupt them whenever possible and let the team also know to do so.
4. ASM works pretty good here.
5. Use IBF
6. Calm down and don't panic
7.Practice, practice, practice.

Sound about right?

Mačl
01-14-2010, 04:50 AM
Sounds about right. Took me some time to find my line through that corner. Last time I changed my target order left me with mobs all over the place. The new instances have a couple of pulls you have to learn.
Think of it like the second to last room in HoL. I've had wiped so many groups in there it's not even funny any more.

Blue
01-14-2010, 03:56 PM
First few times, I dreaded going up that hill, because it was just a wild ride to hell, each time. Then, about the fourth time, I ran across a tank who actually:

1)Marked skull and X, on those casters
2)Asked me to Shackle X, as he would draw the rest away to the side of him.
3)Asked each member of the group, one at a time, if they knew of an interrupt they could use on the mobs that weren't shackled.
4)For the one who didn't answer (there's always one, right?), he told them to just count to six, then burn the skull.

He then instituted a "ready check", and I typed that I'd throw out dispells, and silence. He said, "Muchly appreciated", and we started.

This worked like a charm...

Now, I'm not saying that all of this was necessary, on the part of the tank, but I'm almost 100% sure that he, like most of us, had learned all this, the hard way, and didn't want to repeat it...plus, it was very much fun, to use shackle, for once, and see it actually work, for more than two seconds...

!3M
01-15-2010, 01:34 AM
I think it's just me or my system video setting for WoW but those flamestrike abilities are mean. Especially towards DKs as they blend in with DnD really well. 1st time I tanked it, I was looking out for it but didn't manage to catch it because of my DnD animations. I now look for the mob animation that they're casting/channeling it.

wtb different color for DnD... green like the one in ToC5 perhaps? :P

Dragaan
01-16-2010, 09:39 PM
I agree that your hp is a bit low. Do what you can to boost it (I'd use the pvp shoulder enchant with 30stamina and skip all non-stam socket bonuses by gemming stamina). Besides that, just make sure to use AMS at the start of those pulls and tell dps to lock down the mobs as well as they can. Mark a kill order for the first few at least. If you have any plate-wearing dps, you can tell them to go nuts as long as they single target. Even if they pull aggro on one, they probably won't die and it will mean you take a lil less damage as well. Wait to pull the next pack until all your cooldowns are back up if needed.

Djtk
01-16-2010, 10:19 PM
The big thing about these packs, while tanking as a DK, is the DKs ability to counter the magics.

I may just be repeating whats already said, but it bears repeating.

Mark the flamecasters, have CC on the 2nd flamecaster, then Strangulate the first, then MF him until he's down. Rinse and Repeat on the 2nd flame caster, then rinse and repeat on the Valkyr caster.

The first time I saw these packs, I knew right away, that I would need to silence the casters. Also, Anti-Magic Shield plays a nice role in damage mitigation from the spells.

And yes, the casters in the new 5 mans are NASTY.

Fledern
01-17-2010, 01:14 AM
Well there's an alternative to going through there. Yesterday we went in as 4 fury warriors and a disc priest. Targeted nukes on the flame bearers with interrupts on the casts and all casters were dead before they became a problem.

I thought i'd derail a little given i've already added my constructive comment :P
Pity Tyrannus turned out impossible to 4-fury

Kojiyama
01-17-2010, 05:08 AM
As a healer, I can say one of the biggest sources of damage is the disease. If you do this with a healer that can't remove diseases, I would recommend killing the enemy that does the diseases first, then the flamebearers.

If you do it with a healer that can remove diseases, kill the flamebearers first.

Quick lockdown of the flamebearers helps in any case. This hill can either be crazy difficult or super-easy depending on your approach.

(From a healing Priest standpoint, once I started making sure I kept Abolish Disease on the MT when I had spare globals to make it easier on myself, it got a lot easier. The disease was usually what made it hard on me.)

Castiron
01-18-2010, 05:16 PM
UPDATE

I has recently tanked this twice on heroic now.(Gotten alot of upgrades)Using all the info I got here it was pretty easy. Biggest help was CC second flamebearer and AMS. After that keep agro on all that are not CC and interupt when possible.

Djtk
01-18-2010, 06:14 PM
Yea, those Flamebearers are a real party killer if they aren't dealt with and silenced/interupted.

Cl0ud
05-05-2010, 11:49 AM
Thanks 4 all that info guys ^_^ i wz just about 2 quit tankin on my DK cuz of all the wipes i've had there.

Errvalunia
05-05-2010, 01:53 PM
Those flame guys are a PITA. An important thing is that the healer accepts that they might have to sacrifice melee DPS. The caster DPS should be standing at range no matter what (if a mage goes in to arcane explosion, I would let them die personally for being an idiot).

One thing to major watch out for is the flame guys have a tendency to magically teleport on top of someone (quite often the healer) and start hell-firing; the people in range need to move ASAP, and anyone with interrupts need to interrupt Hellfire ASAP. And the flame guys should be killed first. The Deathbringer lady is the only humanoid, so she is vulnerable to more CC than the others, just as a note

Trogdorrior
05-06-2010, 12:37 PM
The only thing you need to worry about to prevent wipes is ensuring that the diseas "Blight" is never on any player for too long. Honestly, the damage from all the other guys is negligable, but the damage that comes from Blight is what typically wipes groups. Make sure anyone capable of dispelling or cleansing knows to get that little dot off people ASAP, then you'll sail through it.

theodisius
05-13-2010, 06:34 AM
What classes can CC the undead flame casters? Priests (shackle) and ret Paladins (reprentance) ... any others?

Also which healing classes cannot cure disease (remove blight)?

Errvalunia
05-13-2010, 04:11 PM
What classes can CC the undead flame casters? Priests (shackle) and ret Paladins (reprentance) ... any others?

Also which healing classes cannot cure disease (remove blight)?

freezing trap works against any kind of mob.

The middle chick, who is the one who diseases I believe, is a humanoid and vulnerable to more CC. I like to hex her.

Diseases are dispelled by shamans (cleansing totem is great for this), priests and paladins... I think. I'm fairly sure-ish.