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View Full Version : Tanking Deathknight, dieing too fast?



mycil
12-29-2009, 12:56 PM
Hey guys, recently converted over to tanking due to guild needing me to do so and after a lot of practiced hours im still in need of some advice.

The issue i am having is my survivability in certain situations, ones in particular being both PoS and HoR respectively.

I am finding myself being burst on the caster packs after ick and krick in seconds, at first i thought it was slacky healers not precasting, palas hl bombing ect but it's happend a few times now.

And secondly is in HoR, where i have not managed even once to successfully tank it i just get slapped instantly dead after a couple of packs.

heres my armoury - The World of Warcraft Armory (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Trollbane&n=Mycil&group=1)

I have access to all current 10 man gear, no heroic modes, i come from a casual raid guild small group of friends.

I am considering dropping two points into acclimation 1 from scent of blood and 1 from bladed armour (i use scent for free rp to dump into fs) im worried about taking points out of bladed tho how much will this affect my threat?

Losing the imp talons aint really an option as being a small guild we need all the buffs we can get and can rarely rely on having an enh shammy if ever.

I have successfully tanked and cleared all 10 man normal content and voa 25/ony25 (trollbane eu is a terrible pve server pugs are a no go)

Sorry for the wall of text, thanks in advance, all gear upgrades, change in chants gems ect advice is welcomed.

Tylovan
12-29-2009, 01:12 PM
Well, it looks like your gear is doing pretty good, so I'm not sure why you're going down. the only questionable thing might be how's your rotation? How often do you use Cooldowns like Icebound Fortitude, Unbreakable Armor, and Anti-Magic Shell? If you're not using those wisely or much at all, that may be why you're dying more often. I have much the same problem in that I get hit like heck when it comes to certain mobs, and sometimes you just take 70k or something in two seconds and the healer simply doesn't have time to react.

mycil
12-29-2009, 01:20 PM
I rotate my cooldowns a lot, usually pop ams after im hit by the first round of casts so healer can catch up and i absorb the next lot, after which i'll pop ua for physical mitigation(if it's needed), if im still taking a lot of damage thats when i'll pop the dodge trink and then ibf as my final backup if the rest aint cutting it.

My rotations generally - dnd, it,ps,bs, fs, hb, bs, ob and then keep diseases up as i hit hb whenever it's off cooldown/rime procs. Not been having aggro issues, keeping my blade barrier up, ready with bloodtap for ua if it's needed.

I know some of it aint my fault, i mean i had a pala the other day who was just hl bombing on the packs of 5/6 mobs in pos and didnt start the cast until i was on half hp, then complains when i die, even with me cooldowns there wasnt much i could do.

Just looking to see if there is anything major i am overlooking or if it's a case of i need more practice on shutting the casters down first (this has helped in pos) or changing gear at all (i wanna get rid of jc trinket bad but the hp is making me keep it there)

Reev
12-29-2009, 01:26 PM
You should ideally be using CC on those particular groups of mobs. While it's possible to do without CC, you can expect to take a ton of damage. These are hard pulls and intended to be hard pulls. You should prepare for them appropriately with the appropriate CC, like you would have in TBC if you were in Magister's Terrace. No one expected their tanks to tank all 6 mobs back then, but somehow people think we should now. You shouldn't. Use CC.

Adewey
12-29-2009, 01:27 PM
Dont let any mob behind you or the healer it helps some groups out

Deoreus
12-29-2009, 01:28 PM
Your armory has dps gear on at the moment, but your spec looks fine. I personally don't care for acclimation. Anyway, the packs you're talking about are just flat out a lot of incoming damage unless you do something about it. Like...

1) If you have any CC, I usually ask them to repent, shackle, or whatever you can one of the flame casters in PoS.
2) Use your Anti-Magic shell on those packs as well as keeping your Mind Freeze and Strangulate for when they start to hellfire. You can also make sure you tank a few yards away from one to use death grip as an interrupt.

For HoR ...
1) Again, CC is very helpful here. Get those shackles, ice traps, and repentences on the ranged ones.
2) Use Icebound fortitude on harder packs. I typically use it on wave 3, 5, and 8.
3) Use Army of the Dead on the 4th wave and 9th if it's up again. The taunts from your ghouls will hopefully let the dps get one down before you start taking damage from the pack.

In any dungeon, if I know it's going to be a rough pull I pop my ghoul so I can use death pact. For a dungeons, I'd also be using the HB glyph instead of dark command, but that's not really going to help you from getting torn up by casters.

mycil
12-29-2009, 01:31 PM
Ok, thanks, i have not been trying to get anyone using cc so that could indeed be the issue thanks for that.

Any advice on what i could replace that jc trinket with? I really feel like it's letting me down atm.

Sevynn
12-29-2009, 07:36 PM
Ok, for starts glyph of Dark Command is kinda....I don't know, I have never used it and never had issues with it being resisted. I normally use Death grip before my normal taunt though. If you took glyph of Unbreakable Armor that would give you an extra 5% armor when you uses UA which might help your survivability. If you want threat Glyph of Obliterate is nice too.

In your spec the 2 in scent of blood tend to be placed in 2h Mastery. If you run with an enhancement shaman you can drop Icey Talons and Improved Icey talons.

Morbidity is a nice talent but is better suited to Unholy and blood specs. Other then opening in fights it is hard to use DnD in a clean rotation. HB and BB should keep the adds glued to you assuming your dps sticks on your target. Depending on their gear certain classes pull ridiculous threat so if they arent focusing on your target they will pull. Nothing you can really do about that. It is also common practice to gylph Howling blast to cause frost fever. When you start a pull you can drop DnD, use HB, then Blood boil.

after you open that way you will find you are kind of in a rune starved position tho. so it can be a pain if you have a dps unload everything they have.

A useful macro you can use is

/cast blood tap
/cast unbreakable armor

blood tap will cause one of your blood runes to turn into a death rune and refresh it then cast Unbreakable armor. this will allow you to use you unbreakable armor at any point in time. I ideally would use it after DnD, HB, BB unless i know there is a fight with predictable damage.

With the casters in PoS it is very important to interrupt hellfire. If you aren't the only melee, your healer will be pulling their hair out. its a lot of damage to heal. CC is nice but with careless dps nuking everything it tends to break. If you use your pestilence to spread you diseases you will most likely break it.

HoR is painful to tank, if you los the mobs into the corners behind the bosses it can make your life a bit more bearable. You may want to assign a dps to interrupt the mages flame strike because if you can avoid aoe damage...why not.

Honestly, If you dont have to pug these, your better off that way. With guild runs the structure can make a huge difference.

Mctankor
12-29-2009, 08:48 PM
Hey guys, recently converted over to tanking due to guild needing me to do so and after a lot of practiced hours im still in need of some advice.

The issue i am having is my survivability in certain situations, ones in particular being both PoS and HoR respectively.

I am finding myself being burst on the caster packs after ick and krick in seconds, at first i thought it was slacky healers not precasting, palas hl bombing ect but it's happend a few times now.

And secondly is in HoR, where i have not managed even once to successfully tank it i just get slapped instantly dead after a couple of packs.

heres my armoury - The World of Warcraft Armory (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Trollbane&n=Mycil&group=1)

I have access to all current 10 man gear, no heroic modes, i come from a casual raid guild small group of friends.

I am considering dropping two points into acclimation 1 from scent of blood and 1 from bladed armour (i use scent for free rp to dump into fs) im worried about taking points out of bladed tho how much will this affect my threat?

Losing the imp talons aint really an option as being a small guild we need all the buffs we can get and can rarely rely on having an enh shammy if ever.

I have successfully tanked and cleared all 10 man normal content and voa 25/ony25 (trollbane eu is a terrible pve server pugs are a no go)

Sorry for the wall of text, thanks in advance, all gear upgrades, change in chants gems ect advice is welcomed.
Healers DONT want to precast anything that generate threat on those two packs, simply because if its hell yo keep a tank up, theres no way youll be able to keep a healer up if they get the aggro, which is likely to happen if you cast too early.
Those packs just have to be dealt with swiftly and it helps a LOT if people pay attention to the hellfire spell that get used there.
If a tank hesitate there and the healer lands a spell before the tanks gotten aggro, its a wipe without any doubt..
Ive healed it, Ive tanked it and Ive DPSed it and those two packs ranks right up there in the top 5 worst packs of mobs in the non-raid part of the game without a doubt.

mycil
12-30-2009, 01:12 AM
Cheers guys i'll drop the glyph and see if the ua one helps at all, not really wanting to change my spec as it suits my playstle, im an aoe tank and have got used to weaving my rotations to keep really good threat on everything. coupled with tabbing and frost strike, even the top end ima go in and bladestorm shit dont tend to grab aggro off me.

cant really drop improved talons as i said we are a small guild and dont really get many buffs so they are all important to us (having only ever done 10 man and only having 10 man gear deathbringer is still very finely tuned for us and we only tend to kill him when we are setup really well)

Do think the change of glyph may help, just always been concerned about a taunt missing and getting someone killed as i only got like 7% hit

Selene
12-30-2009, 04:26 AM
For the PoS caster groups, take out the two fire guys first then the other caster.
I usually drop D&D right on the group, Death Grip Skull towards X who I'm standing by. Popping Anti-Magic Shell and Icebound Fortitude.

As to a taunt missing, with a few exceptions, like Gluth in Naxx, I rarely ever see it happen.