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View Full Version : Death Knight Army of the Dead - When to use it?



jworley
12-28-2009, 08:36 PM
Let me first say from my experience tanking with my warrior with other DKs that I'm a little pre-disposed to not like AOD. Have seen way too many instances where it is used at the wrong time. However since I'm now leveling a DK and looking into trying DK tanking as an off spec, I'm curious...

When is the right time to use AOD? Either as blood dps or frost tank.

What the use of AOD? It just doesn't seem to fit into any heroic/raid rotation or situation (save for maybe phase 2 of Blk Knight in TOC) that I've noticed and seems to usually cause more harm than not. So I'm interested in hearing from experienced DKs regarding this issue.

Thanks in advance for any responses.

Hammerfists
12-28-2009, 09:41 PM
In a 5 man i wouldnt recommend it cause they taunt off the tank incessantly. In a raid use it on fights without adds since raid bosses are immune to pet taunts. Example: pop them before you pull Marrowgar.

Zyffyr
12-28-2009, 10:48 PM
In 5 mans, AoD taunting off the tank is only sometimes a problem.

If positioning matters for that fight (Conic breath weapons, Cleaves, Tail Swipes, etc) then it is really bad.

If it is just a generic tank-n-spank, the only problem is that it can annoy the tank. If you are the tank, go for it. If you are a DPS, check with the tank first.

Proletaria
12-29-2009, 02:01 AM
In 5-mans: whenever you feel like you'll be completely swarmed and want the ghouls to tank a while. I like to use it on wave-9 in halls of reflection, or on accidental (or purposeful) mass-overpulls in various other heroics. If you drop a good dnd, spread your diseases while the ghouls are tanking, you should have an easy time picking up what's left when the ghouls drop dead.

In raid: I liken it to our LoH, except it's pre-emptive mitigation. I used to use it on stuff like Council hardmode (to eat a final punch) when i knew i would want that hefty amount of mitigation (equal to your dodge+parry). In ICC with less dodge it's migitating less (ofcourse), but it's still handy to pop when you can see a bit hit coming and you have the runes to spend on it. I've found myself using it more often for a little added dps these days, but i'm certain there will be more defensive uses when ICC hardmodes drop.

Satorri
12-29-2009, 05:28 AM
This will take you directly to the section where I discuss AoD:
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f14/59900-comprehensive-guide-death-knight-tanking.html#post337868

Eisen
12-29-2009, 08:53 AM
Whenever something doesn't have a nasty directional ability (think Cleave) and speed killing is of the essence.

Pylae
12-29-2009, 10:00 AM
Nearly every time I've popped Army of the Dead I've regretted it.

Although it works well when The Black Knight pops his....that's good times. ;-)

Hammerfists
12-29-2009, 03:14 PM
If you have a competent tank never pop AoD on black knight. the tank will have no control of the ghouls that will pop nor move the boss away from said ghouls.

Inaara
12-29-2009, 03:15 PM
Not while I'm tanking please.

Martie
12-29-2009, 03:59 PM
Zyffyr is right, any fight where positioning and such is important, the adds are a bad idea.

Every other fight, just pop them. The tank may complain, but that's because tanks are a bunch of twits who think they know everything, but never stop to think. The ghouls will reduce damage taken by massive amounts, they are targets for a lot of annoying abilities, Like Skadi's whirlwind, and when a tank knows his business, the ghouls will give him just about all the threat he needs.
Sure, the boss will be out of control. But you remembered not to pop them on bosses where that control is important, right?

Airowird
12-29-2009, 04:08 PM
I always get DKs in PuG that pop em on the worst possible times.

VH last boss: breath + aggro wipe I can't recover from due to lack of rage
CoS last gauntlet part: first of all WHY?? and second, GG making it easier for me to spot the elite ghouls in between the normal ghouls and the friendly ghouls
HoR: At the end, about 10y before the Lich King, with about 3 caster mobs in there, good luck getting those back out as tank.

That said, AoD for me is a solo ability, 'cuz nobody wants to help a DK levelling anyway :P. It's an awesome ability for solo'ing elite quests or helping in a pinch when tank dies or dc's, but if you ever pop it for damage, you'll get awarded a Vote Kick from me.

Papapaint
12-30-2009, 02:23 AM
I always get DKs in PuG that pop em on the worst possible times.

VH last boss: breath + aggro wipe I can't recover from due to lack of rage
CoS last gauntlet part: first of all WHY?? and second, GG making it easier for me to spot the elite ghouls in between the normal ghouls and the friendly ghouls
HoR: At the end, about 10y before the Lich King, with about 3 caster mobs in there, good luck getting those back out as tank.

That said, AoD for me is a solo ability, 'cuz nobody wants to help a DK levelling anyway :P. It's an awesome ability for solo'ing elite quests or helping in a pinch when tank dies or dc's, but if you ever pop it for damage, you'll get awarded a Vote Kick from me.

Really? I actually don't mind it at all, as long as it's not a "positioning" boss as mentioned earlier. In fact, I love it. DK pops army right off the bat, the little ghouls spam taunt off one another, they get to around 100k threat, I taunt once, now I'm at 100k threat, and I go afk and eat a sandwich and have aggro the rest of the fight. And I'm only slightly kidding.

Airowird
12-30-2009, 03:42 AM
Taunt doesn't increase threat, so taunting in the end will only give you as much threat as a single ghoul could've possibly done.

And yes, a well placed AoD can help DPS, but half the time it fucks up the situation more than it's worth and tbf, I don't really need that much DPS in my group if I can do 2.5k as a tank.

Synapse
12-30-2009, 03:47 AM
Army of the Dead only taunts non-raid bosses, so for "only the boss is around" situations, it's all good and a straight dps increase.
When there's tauntable stuff nearby, it's fine to Army as long as the mob's position, facing and targeted abilities aren't a big deal. Good examples include Anub during swarm, gormok at any time, marrowgar at any time. Bad examples include saurfang(maybe? the beasts will be taunted), deathwhisper adds and anub with burrowers nearby.

Mert
12-30-2009, 03:54 AM
Actually the tanks in my guild don't usually worry about it so much, it's the Rogues that have a moan usually because they can't be all backstabby when the boss is doing his twirly ghoul dance.

Some good uses for Army I've seen:

- When the snow mounds are out of melee range of Hodir if going for a hard mode kill
- Before the pull on Faction Champions or during their Bloodlust
- The very last stages of Heroic Anub'arak when you're juggling burrows and taking a boatload of damage
- Before the pull on a Sarth 3D zerg attempt


And the most comically bad time:

- While whelps are first spawning on Onyxia - those little undead bastards will run into the whelp caves :(

Martie
12-30-2009, 07:04 AM
Taunt doesn't increase threat, so taunting in the end will only give you as much threat as a single ghoul could've possibly done.

True, taunts do not always generate threat, but those ghouls do. I'm not sure why, but they generate a LOT of it.

Pylae
12-30-2009, 08:39 AM
I had a perfectly good Anub'Arak 25 attempt ruined yesterday because a nub popped Army and pulled the adds off the ice.

Dylae

Kazeyonoma
12-30-2009, 11:19 AM
Please don't use on tauntable bosses -_-' drives me crazy.

Eravian
12-30-2009, 11:22 AM
Since my main is a tank, I know that it can be really annoying when it's popped, especially on bosses that need to be pointed a certain way. When I'm on my DK, I always ask if they want me to pop it, since usually there are encounters where it will be more beneficial than others (i.e. the last HoR wave or something like that), or Black Knight phase 2 if you plan to just aoe the adds to oblivion.

Synapse
12-30-2009, 11:26 AM
Please don't use on tauntable bosses -_-' drives me crazy.
Eh, for some like Ichoron it's actually a boon...it drops his shield really fast.
BK p3 is also a good one...they can get marked, reducing the damage taken by the players, while also adding the dps.
For those like Ingvar... Don't >.>

Selyndia
12-30-2009, 11:55 AM
I enjoy having two of my main MP restoring abilities (Blessing of Sanc, Spiritual Attunement) being shut off because the boss is attacking the stupid ghouls instead of me...

There are some points where it's okay to use. Wave 9 before Marwyn or the 4th wall right before the ship in HoR are good spots for them as it helps keep a bunch of that crap under control (Though spinning the stupid Aboms is annoying).

Most of the DKs I'm grouped with through the random dungeon thing either don't use it at all (Good) or use it every time it's available on a boss (Bad). Watching them hit it as the last boss in Forge of Souls does Mirror Soul is particularly amusing...same with ANYTHING that either cleaves, breathes, tail whips or creates "The Bad" that you don't want to stand in or want to move the boss away from...

vine
12-31-2009, 04:18 AM
I always use it in heroics on Dragon bosses, that way the Dragon will spin around and tail swipe everybody. Everyone says "nice work man that was awesome!", and I get added to 4 new friends lists.

Synapse
12-31-2009, 04:20 AM
I enjoy having two of my main MP restoring abilities (Blessing of Sanc, Spiritual Attunement) being shut off because the boss is attacking the stupid ghouls instead of me... Easy solution is to stop generating threat like a madman. It's being taunted like mad already. Wait for the ghouls to die while doing a light threat gen.

Mert
12-31-2009, 04:29 AM
Does Army trigger Bane on Ymiron?

Satorri
12-31-2009, 05:11 AM
I'm not sure, do Hunter pets trigger Bane? If so I'd say probably they do.

I don't think they do though.

Selyndia
12-31-2009, 07:36 AM
Easy solution is to stop generating threat like a madman. It's being taunted like mad already. Wait for the ghouls to die while doing a light threat gen.

Oh thats kind of what I do, just sit to the side and wait till the blasted little things are all dead...

And as for Bane, I know hunter pets used to trigger it when WoTLK released, I don't know if they ever changed it, but I don't recall seeing anything on it.

Tengenstein
12-31-2009, 07:39 AM
True, taunts do not always generate threat, but those ghouls do. I'm not sure why, but they generate a LOT of it.

they taunt of the tank, who ought to be producing lots of threat. Ghouls are some what similiar to rogues and Kitties in abilities and and if each one taunts then smacks the boss, you have an entity which essentially has no CD on its taunt or highest damage/threat move


as to when to pop army? when the last tank dies.

Knyteshade
12-31-2009, 09:55 AM
As both a DK tank and DK dps (depends n target and what not.) I only use it on raids as a Dk dps or as 1 final oh shut button cause things are going bad real fast when tanking.