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View Full Version : Tanking Threat issues Frost DK...



Onetoo
12-27-2009, 08:55 PM
Hey so i just made the swap from dps to tank, i am working in the frost tree, and im using the rotation: D&D, IT,PS,pest,BB,HB for AOE. And basically a similaer rotation for single target mobs, ive been running a lot of random heroics lately and i cant seem to keep threat over the dps in my groups...as my pally i seem to be able to no problem but on my DK there is always someone riding my heels on the meters. Ive been spending a lot of time and gold trying to find something that works, but so far ive come up with nothing.

Heres my spec: The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Shadowsong&n=Onetoo&group=1)

Any advice on respeccing, or rotations would be great!!

Tylovan
12-27-2009, 09:16 PM
hrm...well, the one respecc I might suggest is taking the Chill of the Grave and maybe Deathchill, and throwing them into Acclimation. It's not much, but that extra resistance can be nice.

as far as rotation goes...I see you've got a pretty good setup, except I don't see any kind of Rune Strike in there. Yeah, you REALLY need Rune Strike these days. Like bind it to a key, do something with it because at least for my Frost DK it's required. I use it whenever it's up basically. So that might be a possibility there.

Also you could examine where and when you're having trouble and the circumstances. For example the last place I've had trouble was Forge of Souls because of the abundance of casters and the way they were grouped. Eventually the solution I found that worked best was to simply run in first, drop a DnD, and Death Grip the mob farthest away so it doesn't run out of DnD range to cast. So check and see if the situations where you find yourself with aggro troubles are all similar. If they are then you might need to tweak your approach to that particular situation.

The other thing is that you're doing Random Heroics. Which...basically means that you're running with people who wanna get their badges and gear and GO! As fast as they possibly can. That oftentimes results in complaints, demands to move faster, and generally ignoring that you might need a few seconds before they start nuking the heck outta mobs and bosses.

I could critique your gear and stuff, but anyone can do that and I'm sure some people will, so I'll leave it to them to do so. Hopefully what I've given you helps.

Felycitas
12-27-2009, 09:28 PM
A few things...

1) Understand that there are going to be some heavily geared DPS in heroics these days.

2) Are you losing the threat fight on single target situations or AoE situations?

My recommendation...

Remove PS and Pestilence from the rotation. Get the Glyph of Howling Blast that applies Frost Fever to targets it hits.

Here's my starting rotation for an AoE pack: D&D, HB, BB

Here's my starting rotation for single target trash: IT, PS, Obliterate, BS, BS

Here's my starting rotation for a single target boss if DPS is riding my butt on threat: D&D, IT, PS, BS, pause, Obliterate, Obliterate, IT, PS

As for your spec.. pretty basic.

If it was me.. I would drop Epidemic and Lichborne. Drop 2 into blood's Two-Handed Weapon Spec and put that 1 remaining someplace else (maybe back into Lichborne if you're really liking that ability).

Khrosis
12-28-2009, 02:02 AM
I personally roll with The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Moon+Guard&cn=Khrosis&gn=It+Came+From+Behind)
With my recent switch to the FS glyph I find Scent of blood gives me a ridiculous amount of RP generation, allowing me to spam FS for constant Single target threat. As for AoE pulls I would suggest marking a primary target for them to start DPSing on, make that your primary target and continue to HB every rime proc and when its off CD. Personally I only put 1 point in Acclimation to get further down the tree, though lichborne is also a decent choice if you need a fear break(Im human so my racial is good enough for me).

But yeah your threat problems are most likely the overgeared DPS in Randoms now...so just hang in there.

gabbu
12-28-2009, 05:13 AM
Remove PS and Pestilence from the rotation. Get the Glyph of Howling Blast that applies Frost Fever to targets it hits.

Here's my starting rotation for an AoE pack: D&D, HB, BB

My money on this, for heroics this is pretty much the only sure way to keep threat.

Hatchetman240
12-28-2009, 07:51 AM
See my comments in this thread http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f175/59855-need-help-dw-frost-tank.html (http://www.tankspot.com/forums/59855-need-help-dw-frost-tank.html)

You need to glyph HB/D&D/RS and stick to an AOE rotation at all times to produce high threat. My single target rotation only nets about 5-6k TPS but the AOE always snags more. The only thing I might suggest is using BS over BB as that should be a net threat gain on single target, using the HB on cooldown + off proc seems to be the difference maker really. I'm guessing if I glyphed HB/FS the single target threat would be a lot better.

Tylovan
12-28-2009, 08:06 AM
See my comments in this thread http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f175/59855-need-help-dw-frost-tank.html (http://www.tankspot.com/forums/59855-need-help-dw-frost-tank.html)

You need to glyph HB/D&D/RS and stick to an AOE rotation at all times to produce high threat. My single target rotation only nets about 5-6k TPS but the AOE always snags more. The only thing I might suggest is using BS over BB as that should be a net threat gain on single target, using the HB on cooldown + off proc seems to be the difference maker really. I'm guessing if I glyphed HB/FS the single target threat would be a lot better.

That's a minor tweak, though. There's no real downside to doing AoE pulling most of the time. it doesn't cost you anything since you don't consume mana or anything that you don't get back until the end of a pull. Of course there are simply times where you can't drop a DnD, or afford to use a HB, but you learn to work with those. (plus that's what Rune Strike is for.)

Either way, I'd say all of these suggestions are good, may have to take some suggestions for myself. Check your specc, see what works for you. If you have to respecc a few times to try out things, such is life I guess. We don't all get so lucky as to find what works for us the first time we try.

and yeah, a big part of it is gonna be that you're running with highly-geared DPS who probably aren't used to waiting for a tank, or it's been a long time since they did. Some people tend to forget that there was a time where they were undergeared.

Onetoo
12-28-2009, 08:20 AM
Thanks, you guys have been the most help since i started this whole thing a week ago. :)

BlazeDale
12-28-2009, 09:53 AM
My suggestion is to macro Rune Strike into all your abilities. That way you cast it whenever you have runic power and requires no effort from you.

#showtooltip Blood Boil
/cast Blood Boil
/cast !Rune Strike
/startattack

Obviously do this for more abilities than just blood boil.
Also you can Macro in Deathchill into your Howling Blasts so you will crit more often on Howling Blasts and usually on the opening pull.

#showtooltip Howling Blast
/cast Deathchill
/cast Howling Blast
/cast !Rune Strike
/startattack

The /startattack is handy because it makes sure you stay attacking if one target dies and you are opening on a new target.

My opening rotation is

D&D - HB - BB

Abilites that are not on my action bar include:
Plague Strike(Applying this would increase threat however in heroics things die too fast to care about maintaining a 2nd disease. Maybe use this on boss fights but I'm lazy so I don't)
Icy Touch
Blood Strike(Single target this would be better than Blood Boil but again, I'm lazy)

Here is a link to my build: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jcxGZhgxzAbIoch0zuAo0x:TsdzMV)

Glyphs I use include:
Howling Blast
Rune Strike
Icy Touch

I hope this makes things easy. I rarely have problems with agro in heroics. I haven't tried this in a Raid setting so I'm not sure how it will perform there.

One question I had though. In the Blood Tree which would be better to take 2 points in Bladed Armor or 2 points in 2 Handed Weapon Specialization? I'm considering changing my spec around a little to get both. Any recommendations?

Edited to add exclamation points as mentioned below.
Thanks.

gabbu
12-28-2009, 10:59 AM
#showtooltip Blood Boil
/cast Blood Boil
/cast Rune Strike
/startattack

Slight edit, add an exclamation before rune strike

like below


#showtooltip Blood Boil
/cast Blood Boil
/cast !Rune Strike
/startattack

This was you wont cancel an already queue'd rune strike by hitting other macro'ed keys.

Khrosis
12-28-2009, 03:28 PM
Slight edit, add an exclamation before rune strike

like below


#showtooltip Blood Boil
/cast Blood Boil
/cast !Rune Strike
/startattack

This was you wont cancel an already queue'd rune strike by hitting other macro'ed keys.

This here will increase your single target threat a crap ton, making you use RS every time you can.